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    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    KresoF1:

     

    Just... I truly hope that Porsche learned a lesson in EU with 991.1 GT3 RS. Over 70% of cars ended in speculators hands. 

     

    My dealer told me that every GT customer has now to be checked by Porsche before approval of the order , and any speculator will be refused a new order . 

    Good intentions ....... not sure it works at the end as there is always a way around if there is money to be made 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Unless Porsche start seriously punishing the offending dealers, nothing will happen.


    --

     

     


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    SciFrog:

    They just need to raise the price to weed speculators out...

    Terrible idea. Not only would that weed out most real buyers too, but the ones who still can afford an RS would not dare to take it to the track due to its high price/value.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Whoopsy:

    Unless Porsche start seriously punishing the offending dealers, nothing will happen.

    And that is not going to happen anytime soon. I was at an OPC at the weekend where there was a 911R in open view for sale. I bet that guy will get a GT3RS and a GT2RS as well.


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    bluelines:
    SciFrog:

    They just need to raise the price to weed speculators out...

    Terrible idea. Not only would that weed out most real buyers too, but the ones who still can afford an RS would not dare to take it to the track due to its high price/value.

    +1 Smiley


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    bluelines:
    SciFrog:

    They just need to raise the price to weed speculators out...

    Terrible idea. Not only would that weed out most real buyers too, but the ones who still can afford an RS would not dare to take it to the track due to its high price/value.

    It depends on the raise. 25% would not change anything for most of the would be buyers...


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    But 25% would not affect speculators either, may even make it worse...

    The only real solution as mentioned is for Porsche to punish offending clients AND dealerships, the second not likely to happen though...
    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Carlos from Spain:

    But 25% would not affect speculators either, may even make it worse...

    The only real solution as mentioned is for Porsche to punish offending clients AND dealerships, the second not likely to happen though...
    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

    Or they ramp up production... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    That's even better indecision everyone they wants one and is able to pay for it should be and to have one IMO, but the real world is different of course


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    SciFrog:
    bluelines:
    SciFrog:

    They just need to raise the price to weed speculators out...

    Terrible idea. Not only would that weed out most real buyers too, but the ones who still can afford an RS would not dare to take it to the track due to its high price/value.

    It depends on the raise. 25% would not change anything for most of the would be buyers...

    Like a special tax? To avoid speculation? You have just qualified for a job in the government Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    SciFrog:

    It depends on the raise. 25% would not change anything for most of the would be buyers...

    It would for me (as would the proposed 20% tariff on imports to US)


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Forget all that. Just flood the market with cars as quick as possible and speculators get nothing and everyone gets a car they want. What exactly would be the downside to this?


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    The reason I have not pressed on the flooding the market is that they have already done it with the RS... A combination of both would be great for Porsche.


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    It's the dealers' job to weed out speculators, Porsche itself can only do so much. 

    Dealers are the interaction end of the process, they are the one selecting the customers.

    Even if Porsche add their approval for purchases it still won't work, as the dealers can supply bogus names to Porsche for the orders like Ferrari dealers do, order a car in a good customer's name but sell it to a completely different entity.

    Something like this already happened to someone I know. A dealer ordered a 911R in a 918 owner's name without the 918 owner's knowledge, but flipped the car and Porsche found out, black listed the 918 owner acts they think he did it on purpose, but after some protest and investigation, the ban was reversed and gave him a 911R back. The dealer? Got off with no consequences. Dealers are too powerful for Porsche to offend. Especially in the US. They are untouchables.

    Quite a few of the 918 owners in the US got booted off the VIP program because of the 911R. Did they flip their cars? Sort of, but all of them partnered with the dealers to do it. Greed from the dealer is the biggest motivator. 

    Why did the 911R went up in value by so much so quickly? The press. Blindly singing praises on the car, keep blowing the horn and whip out a frenzy. Add the fact that it's a limited production car and the perfect storm happened.

    Porsche tried to cool it down by announcing the incoming GT3 with manual transmission and a better motor, but that was too little too late. 

     

     

     


    --

     

     


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    The 918 story was different. Anyone who wanted one could have ordered one...


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Works the same way on greedy dealers allowing flipping to happen.

    This one dealer even bypassed the 918 owner to 'steal' a car to flip.

    With dealers acting like this, how do a normal Porsche client gets a car at a reasonable price to drive? 


    --

     

     


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Just gotta find a good dealer I guess. My local one sells at MSRP all day, no games, no flipping. It probably helps that it's a massive company with 50 dealers and isn't too concerned about flipping 911s every now.


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Whoopsy:

    Works the same way on greedy dealers allowing flipping to happen.

    This one dealer even bypassed the 918 owner to 'steal' a car to flip.

    With dealers acting like this, how do a normal Porsche client gets a car at a reasonable price to drive? 

    reminds me of a certain ferrari dealership that sold my 488GTB to kuwait for a profit. it had something good, i ended up with a GT3RS:::)))

    peter


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    noone1:

    Just gotta find a good dealer I guess. My local one sells at MSRP all day, no games, no flipping. It probably helps that it's a massive company with 50 dealers and isn't too concerned about flipping 911s every now.

    In Los Angeles?  Which one is it?

    The problem is multi-faceted.  Even if you find a dealer that only sells at MSRP, they only have so many allocations, so someone will be left out while production is relatively limited.


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Whoopsy:

    It's the dealers' job to weed out speculators, Porsche itself can only do so much. 

    Dealers are the interaction end of the process, they are the one selecting the customers.

    Even if Porsche add their approval for purchases it still won't work, as the dealers can supply bogus names to Porsche for the orders like Ferrari dealers do, order a car in a good customer's name but sell it to a completely different entity.

    Something like this already happened to someone I know. A dealer ordered a 911R in a 918 owner's name without the 918 owner's knowledge, but flipped the car and Porsche found out, black listed the 918 owner acts they think he did it on purpose, but after some protest and investigation, the ban was reversed and gave him a 911R back. The dealer? Got off with no consequences. Dealers are too powerful for Porsche to offend. Especially in the US. They are untouchables.

    Quite a few of the 918 owners in the US got booted off the VIP program because of the 911R. Did they flip their cars? Sort of, but all of them partnered with the dealers to do it. Greed from the dealer is the biggest motivator. 

    Why did the 911R went up in value by so much so quickly? The press. Blindly singing praises on the car, keep blowing the horn and whip out a frenzy. Add the fact that it's a limited production car and the perfect storm happened.

    Porsche tried to cool it down by announcing the incoming GT3 with manual transmission and a better motor, but that was too little too late. 

     

     

     

    Nick, I couldn't agree more. But there is one area you failed to mention. Ferrari dealers do not sell above MSRP. Ferrari did step in and employ procedures to prevent charging premiums. But with Ferrari dealers, usually if you want the latest and greatest Ferrari, they would like your present Ferrari which they sell usually above MSRP.

    I believe Porsche dealers are taking the same approach with the GT models. My dealer asked me to give him the first opportunity to buy the car back. If I don't, I will not get another allocation. It is how it should work. You rub my back, I'll rub yours.Smiley


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    I would not underestimate the effect of Internet hype and journos creating buzz. Dealers respond to prevailing winds and the wind these days blow hard off the net.  


    --

    "Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    nberry:
    My dealer asked me to give him the first opportunity to buy the car back. If I don't, I will not get another allocation. It is how it should work. You rub my back, I'll rub yours.Smiley

    And who will determine the buy back price ? The dealer ? The market ? 

     

    It is easy for a dealer to help flipping . They just push the good regular clients to buy the car , even if the customers does not really want the car, and then they tell them to not worry, they will arrange a sale as soon as possible with a profit . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Dealers actually love to buy high demand cars back from customers at a good price because then, they can flip them at whatever price they want. An official Porsche dealer selling a brand-new GT car (which is still produced) over MSRP? Highly unlikely. Selling a used (customer) car at double the price? No problem. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Crashed
     

     

     


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Gnil:
    nberry:
    My dealer asked me to give him the first opportunity to buy the car back. If I don't, I will not get another allocation. It is how it should work. You rub my back, I'll rub yours.Smiley

    And who will determine the buy back price ? The dealer ? The market ? 

     

    It is easy for a dealer to help flipping . They just push the good regular clients to buy the car , even if the customers does not really want the car, and then they tell them to not worry, they will arrange a sale as soon as possible with a profit . 

    Profit Is not a motive for me. What is important is accessibility to new in demand cars like the GT. I negotiate a price which I deem fair to both of us with the understanding the dealer is going to mark it up by beyond our agreed price. For an example, recently I received a call from my dealer wanting to know whether I am interested in selling my Targa now instead of waiting until this September when my GT3 arrives. We arrived at a very fair price and sold my car back to them. 

    It worked out for me because I wasn't driving the car that often and it is a good time for a dealer to be selling a Targa. There is no doubt I could have sold it on my own for more than what I sold it to the dealer. But given I want to maintain my very beneficial relationship with the dealer and the hassle of selling the car on my own it made sense to sell it now.


    --

    "A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    Another solution is build a car like the new Acura NSX that nobody wants.....angry


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    964C2:

    Another solution is build a car like the new Acura NSX that nobody wants.....angry

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    964C2:

    Another solution is build a car like the new Acura NSX that nobody wants.....angry

    This is probably the only car I've ever been called back about after putting in interest a long time ago. Got a message the other day saying they could order me one if I wanted one still. Didn't return the call, needless to say. Car is a massive disappointment and it's not selling well at all.


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    nberry:
    Gnil:
    nberry:
    My dealer asked me to give him the first opportunity to buy the car back. If I don't, I will not get another allocation. It is how it should work. You rub my back, I'll rub yours.Smiley

    And who will determine the buy back price ? The dealer ? The market ? 

     

    It is easy for a dealer to help flipping . They just push the good regular clients to buy the car , even if the customers does not really want the car, and then they tell them to not worry, they will arrange a sale as soon as possible with a profit . 

    Profit Is not a motive for me. What is important is accessibility to new in demand cars like the GT. I negotiate a price which I deem fair to both of us with the understanding the dealer is going to mark it up by beyond our agreed price. For an example, recently I received a call from my dealer wanting to know whether I am interested in selling my Targa now instead of waiting until this September when my GT3 arrives. We arrived at a very fair price and sold my car back to them. 

    It worked out for me because I wasn't driving the car that often and it is a good time for a dealer to be selling a Targa. There is no doubt I could have sold it on my own for more than what I sold it to the dealer. But given I want to maintain my very beneficial relationship with the dealer and the hassle of selling the car on my own it made sense to sell it now.

    That sounds very reasonable and a good position for both of you 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: 991 GT3 RS

    noone1:
    Car is a massive disappointment and it's not selling well at all.

    I've never seen a new version of a car (NSX) stray so far from the ethos of its direct predecessor Smiley


    --

     

     

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


     
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