Crown

Board: Porsche Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Porsche Expanding Production



    139 words
    30 December 2004
    08:42
    Reuters News
    English
    (c) 2004 Reuters Limited

    FRANKFURT, Dec 30 (Reuters) - Germany's Porsche , the world's most profitable carmaker, sees future growth driven by new models and an expansion of its production capacities in Germany, its chief executive told a newspaper.

    "We are talking about growth also through completely new models," Wendelin Wiedeking told Germany's Stuttgarter Zeitung in an interview to be published on Friday, without specifying a timeframe.

    The luxury carmaker plans to step up output to 100,000 cars per year from 76,000 in its current three model lines, and to expand capacity in the German cities of Stuttgart and Leipzig, the paper said.

    Wiedeking again defended his decision to continue making Porsches in Germany rather than in lower-wage countries. "I believe that Porsche has an advantage through 'Made in Germany'," he said.

    Happy New Year !

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    sounds promising

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    what about the boxsters made in finland

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:


    "We are talking about growth also through completely new models,"




    So he is paying attention to rennteam. Good!

    Tom

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    "We are talking about growth also through completely new models,"


    I sure hope that doesnt me more dilution of the porsche badge... please NO new sedan or something, I hope "new models" means that boxster clubsport and etc. not luxery poop that should come from mercedes

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    AndrewSS said:
    "We are talking about growth also through completely new models,"


    I sure hope that doesnt me more dilution of the porsche badge... please NO new sedan or something, I hope "new models" means that boxster clubsport and etc. not luxery poop that should come from mercedes



    you know it wouldn't be "as" bad if they get their butts back into racing since this used to be a sports car company and that's the "heritage" their selling all this other junk off of.

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    I agree, I don't know what the hell are they waiting for to get back into racing, its been long enough, lets never forget that racing is what made Porsche, Porsche, and everything we like about Porsches now is due to its past involvement in racing. They may make incredible sportcars now but the more they stray from that the more risk they run of straying from what we like about Porsches in the long run, and turn into something meant for a different audience than us. Some people seem not to realize that and how important racing is.

    That said I would like to know what precisely is it that you are refering to as "junk" Ben.

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:

    That said I would like to know what precisely is it that you are refering to as "junk" Ben.



    let's just say i'm not real enamored with the cayenne and the quality control (ie: RMS) in the 9 model years of the 996/boxster motor.

    "and turn into something meant for a different audience than us."

    yep, with the exception of the CGT, GT2, and GT3, pcars are definetely becomming way more GT than pure sports car (note too that these pure sports cars which are actually derived from porsche racing efforts appear much better built and reliable with fewer to no bugs). this obviously appeals more to the non-enthusiast which i suppose is critical to porsche's survival as a stand alone company. porsche is becomming more BMW like every year - and that is a bad thing IMO.

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    let's just say i'm not real enamored with the cayenne and the quality control (ie: RMS) in the 9 model years of the 996/boxster motor.

    "and turn into something meant for a different audience than us."

    yep, with the exception of the CGT, GT2, and GT3, pcars are definetely becomming way more GT than pure sports car (note too that these pure sports cars which are actually derived from porsche racing efforts appear much better built and reliable with fewer to no bugs). this obviously appeals more to the non-enthusiast which i suppose is critical to porsche's survival as a stand alone company. porsche is becomming more BMW like every year - and that is a bad thing IMO.



    ... and that merits calling the 996 Carreras, Boxster and Cayenne junk?

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    let's just say i'm not real enamored with the cayenne and the quality control (ie: RMS) in the 9 model years of the 996/boxster motor.

    "and turn into something meant for a different audience than us."

    yep, with the exception of the CGT, GT2, and GT3, pcars are definetely becomming way more GT than pure sports car (note too that these pure sports cars which are actually derived from porsche racing efforts appear much better built and reliable with fewer to no bugs). this obviously appeals more to the non-enthusiast which i suppose is critical to porsche's survival as a stand alone company. porsche is becomming more BMW like every year - and that is a bad thing IMO.



    ... and that merits calling the 996 Carreras, Boxster and Cayenne junk?



    no, did i?

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    ... and that merits calling the 996 Carreras, Boxster and Cayenne junk?



    no, did i?



    Well I misunderstood you from this then: (which I would be glad if so because I have a different opinion of you, that is why I was asking to make sure)


    ben, lj said:...this used to be a sports car company and that's the "heritage" their selling all this other junk off of.

    Carlos from Spain said:I would like to know what precisely is it that you are refering to as "junk" Ben.

    ben, lj said:
    let's just say i'm not real enamored with the cayenne and the quality control (ie: RMS) in the 9 model years of the 996/boxster motor. "and turn into something meant for a different audience than us."

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    ... and that merits calling the 996 Carreras, Boxster and Cayenne junk?



    no, did i?



    Well I misunderstood you from this then: (which I would be glad if so because I have a different opinion of you, that is why I was asking to make sure)


    ben, lj said:...this used to be a sports car company and that's the "heritage" their selling all this other junk off of.

    Carlos from Spain said:I would like to know what precisely is it that you are refering to as "junk" Ben.

    ben, lj said:
    let's just say i'm not real enamored with the cayenne and the quality control (ie: RMS) in the 9 model years of the 996/boxster motor. "and turn into something meant for a different audience than us."



    sorry carlos. i'd consider the V6 cayenne to be junk for sure, but not the rest (though the V8 non-turbo isn't real special in a porsche kind of performance way either). what the heck Porsche is there about a 5k lb 6 cyl SUV? when you drive a CT you definetely walk away saying "porsche - there is no substitute". i'd also have to say that otherwise great 986 and 996 cars have had a "junk" element to them in their RMS defective motors (they didn't fix it for 8 model years and we don't know yet if they got it right on the 9th and current yet). as well, as you know, i think there is a certain junk element in the very non-porschelike hesitation in our CT. so, while i don't consider these cars in total (with the exception of the lame arse V6 Cayenne which Porsche has no excuse for embarassing the brand with) to be junk, they have elements of junk that are very non-Porschelike (ie: not like Porsche from the 993 back).

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Yes, dropping a VW-V6 engine on the Cayenne is a big mistake, I don't know what they were thinking either.
    I'm more pissed than you about the RMS issue Ben, but lets keep things in perspective, its just a small leak that neither compromises the safety of the occupants nor is it a risk to the engine (you can drive around with a RMS leak and when you come around to it you take into the shop), its just a monetary issue, normal Ferrari scheduled maintenances set you back further than replacing an RMS leak in the 996 (if out of warranty) or the blowing-up M3 engines are a real issue. You mention the 993 but the 993 had worse issues including the wiring harness which was even a safety issue, and there are other issues more expensive than the RMS in the 993. But the RMS leak is hardly enough to call the 996 or 986 junk, "junk" is the posture Porsche is taking on the RMS issue, thats what makes us really mad, but not the issue itself nor the car is junk.

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Yes, dropping a VW-V6 engine on the Cayenne is a big mistake, I don't know what they were thinking either.
    I'm more pissed than you about the RMS issue Ben, but lets keep things in perspective, its just a small leak that neither compromises the safety of the occupants nor is it a risk to the engine (you can drive around with a RMS leak and when you come around to it you take into the shop), its just a monetary issue, normal Ferrari scheduled maintenances set you back further than replacing an RMS leak in the 996 (if out of warranty) or the blowing-up M3 engines are a real issue. You mention the 993 but the 993 had worse issues including the wiring harness which was even a safety issue, and there are other issues more expensive than the RMS in the 993. But the RMS leak is hardly enough to call the 996 or 986 junk, "junk" is the posture Porsche is taking on the RMS issue, thats what makes us really mad, but not the issue itself or the car.



    yes, i agree it's a "junk" posture. bmw extended the warranty to 100k on their grenading M3 motors. porsche should do the same on the RMS issue and i think we would all agree it wasn't any big deal any longer. like you, i'm just pissed how they are treating customers with this issue. fwiw, ferrari really doesn't make porsche's issue any less un porschelike than it is though. also, the 993 wiring harness didn't encompass all years did it and didn't they step up on that?

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    New models = good, if they get back to ruling the production supercar roost with a reliable top performer like what this artist drew a while ago;


    Tom

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    racerx said:
    New models = good, if they get back to ruling the production supercar roost with a reliable top performer like what this artist drew a while ago;


    Tom

    that picture still amazes me Imagine a new Targa just like that

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    racerx said:
    New models = good, if they get back to ruling the production supercar roost with a reliable top performer like what this artist drew a while ago;


    Tom



    yep, that sure beats heck out of 6 cyl SUVs!

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    let's just say i'm not real enamored with the cayenne and the quality control (ie: RMS) in the 9 model years of the 996/boxster motor.

    "and turn into something meant for a different audience than us."

    yep, with the exception of the CGT, GT2, and GT3, pcars are definetely becomming way more GT than pure sports car (note too that these pure sports cars which are actually derived from porsche racing efforts appear much better built and reliable with fewer to no bugs). this obviously appeals more to the non-enthusiast which i suppose is critical to porsche's survival as a stand alone company. porsche is becomming more BMW like every year - and that is a bad thing IMO.



    ... and that merits calling the 996 Carreras, Boxster and Cayenne junk?



    Excellent choice with the Carrera S Carlos

    I can see where Ben is coming from because those cars (996,boxster, cayenne) are worthless to people like me. I want a street legal track car and those cars are not what I want from Porsche. They are high quality, high performance, and deserve respect, but are less dedicated in the sport department than I'd like so I'd never buy one even though I'd suggest them to others. For instance, I don't think it would be a bad thing if the 997 S with 20mm suspension was the least sporty 911 sold. Less sporty models wouldn't bother us die hard nut jobs if we could be assured that we wouldn't see their navigation systems showing up in our GT3s.

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    I agree and disagree with a lot of you guys... I hope like you guys that porsche would get into racing more indepth, I also hope that we see more "club sport" type cars coming out. And less GT cars (cayanne, etc)

    I really hope the new 987 boxster gets the "clubsport" treatment for the more sporty drivers, and of course makes it to the USA, if porsche does that i will definatly give them a big thumbs up!

    I dont think that the 997S is too "GT" although the main thing i notice that i like about the older 911's is that they are smaller, smaller dimensions, less weight... and that is kinda missing with the new 997 line... but hey I dont mind the more safety and what not... anyone get my point...?


    But hey the 997S still isnt ,for now, quite a GT car especially if you are european and can get the -20mm... (although getting the right options in the USA leans the car to GT or Sport)

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Some may like the GT3, others may like the C2 cab, as long as there are choices for everyone I don't mind, and respect them for how good they are in their category. Personally I like the closest variant to a GT3 with PSM, rear seats and decent ground clearance so I can drive it hard everyday, anywere, and in any surface & weather (which not as possible with a GT3). But as long as they keep producing all the variants, espcially the sportier ones, its OK. But if they only made GT3's and GT2's, I wouldn't buy Porsche, and so wouldn't a lot of people, and there would be no Porsche in the end. Now going into the sedan or SUV businees is another matter, I'm not fond of SUVs at all, and I wouldn't own one here, but I can't call the Cayenne junk for that reason, I respect it for being the best SUV out there. Would I prefer Porsche sticking to only sportcars such as the 911, Boxster or even a GT 4-seater coupe? yes but I think getting back to racing (not just for the medals but for improving the breed) is way more important than that still.

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Some may like the GT3, others may like the C2 cab, as long as there are choices for everyone I don't mind, and respect them for how good they are in their category. Personally I like the closest variant to a GT3 with PSM, rear seats and decent ground clearance so I can drive it hard everyday, anywere, and in any surface & weather (which not as possible with a GT3). But as long as they keep producing all the variants, espcially the sportier ones, its OK. But if they only made GT3's and GT2's, I wouldn't buy Porsche, and so wouldn't a lot of people, and there would be no Porsche in the end. Now going into the sedan or SUV businees is another matter, I'm not fond of SUVs at all, and I wouldn't own one here, but I can't call the Cayenne junk for that reason, I respect it for being the best SUV out there. Would I prefer Porsche sticking to only sportcars such as the 911, Boxster or even a GT 4-seater coupe? yes but I think getting back to racing (not just for the medals but for improving the breed) is way more important than that still.



    yes, i'm with you carlos in that as much as i love the gt3, i insist on having some sort of psm type safety for my performance street cars. many people with bigger egos will say it's for pussies, but just call me a pussy and keep me out of terminal or serious mistakes on the street (this is the main reason for my spending twice as much $ on a stradale instead of just buying a gt3 which is my second favorite pcar). the 997S is borderline too GT based on the -20 mm suspension not being available here. we are now unable to mess with the suspension or seats (air bags keep us from putting in lightweight porsche racing buckets with lots more lateral support) with the new model to make it more sporty with the 997.

    the base 997 is a joke and an embarassment to the sensibility of porsche buyers. using the same (RMS deficient) motor, changing the headlights and merely upgrading the interior is an insult. the S should be the base 997 and should most likely cost what the base does as well. the fact the changes in the base 997 vs. the 996 are primarily if not all cosmetics kind of says it all.

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    I think PSM is more important than people think for hard street driving and I know situations were I would of had to back off a little and gone slower if I didn't have it since the risk it too great to judge. Not to mention the distractions or dangerous situations associated, not with hard driving, but with normal street driving (such as other driver maneuvers, unexpected grabble, etc) and these are street cars and we drive our family in them, a track car would be different. Also I get plenty of rain in winter and I like driving hard all year around and in the wet, and has saved me from running off the road at 130km/h in the rain due to another driver. And bottom line is that its not going to make you slower in hard street driving, and with the sport chrono option it will probably rarely come on in the track, if you haven't turned it off already. I ride a GSX-R1000 bike with a 160HP per 183kg, two very small contact patches, no safety features whatsoever, and no electronic aids at all, so not having PSM in the car (no matter what horsepower) is not something that would boost my ego or impress me.


    I can't figure out why Porsche does not offer the -20mm to the North American market, the PASM is great, they really got it right for an electronic suspension, but being a new and non traditional suspension, its not for every 997S buyer and its not modifiable either so you have no options either. Its insulting to NA buyers, it should of been a priority to introduce the -20mm as well. And I was hoping to the option of lightweight one-piece bucket seats too, but at least I was gladly surprised to see how much better the sport and standard 997 seats are compared to the 996 in lateral suppport and stabilization, which was one of my pet peeves of the 996.

    I also agree that the 997S should of been the 996 carrera succesor after 6 years of development and model change, and I was one of the first persons to call that out here. But the base 997 is very different to the 996 though, much more than I though before I tried it, don't let the similar engine and aesthetics fool you, from the steering to the way the door closes, if feels like a new car really and its an improvement over the 996, its just that the base 997 should of had the 997S engine, brakes and PASM suspension as standard (with the -20mm optional like the M030 on the 996).

    The way I tend to think about this is that the 911 has gotten $1k more expensive in this model change, since those coming from a 996 carrera need to go for the 997S, but $1k increase is not that bad when you think about it and compare to other brand's model change price increases, and also when you compare the overall pricetag of the 997S for what it offers.

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    its just a small leak that neither compromises the safety of the occupants nor is it a risk to the engine (you can drive around with a RMS leak and when you come around to it you take into the shop), its just a monetary issue,



    The one major problem with ignoring the RMS for a few months is that the oil eventually works its way to the clutch disc so then not only do you get to pay for a temporary/replacement seal installation you also have the added expense of replacing the clutch, BTDT got the t-shirt...

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    They figured that they need to sell luxury cars at this price rather than race cars. I guess it has worked with the profits up so much,.,

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    rss996 said:
    They figured that they need to sell luxury cars at this price rather than race cars. I guess it has worked with the profits up so much,.,



    yep, and these days profits are all that matter at porsche. this was the strategy in the late 80s as well and porsche almost went down the drain. i suspect this time though they'll just [censored] away one of the best sports car reputations on the planet in exchange for a MB or BMW type business. but as long as profits are high...

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    jandreas said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    its just a small leak that neither compromises the safety of the occupants nor is it a risk to the engine (you can drive around with a RMS leak and when you come around to it you take into the shop), its just a monetary issue,



    The one major problem with ignoring the RMS for a few months is that the oil eventually works its way to the clutch disc so then not only do you get to pay for a temporary/replacement seal installation you also have the added expense of replacing the clutch, BTDT got the t-shirt...



    True, but that only happens in a few cases, many onwners don't even know what RMS is and it only gets discovered after a while when they take the car in for regular maintenance, and never get oil into the clutch & flywheel. The risk of that is very low, and so are reported cases.

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    rss996 said:
    They figured that they need to sell luxury cars at this price rather than race cars. I guess it has worked with the profits up so much,.,



    That's the funny part. I actually cringe when I hear Porsche referred to as a luxury car manufacturer. Please before delivery rip out all the luxury and weigh it for me!

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    Quote:
    rss996 said:
    They figured that they need to sell luxury cars at this price rather than race cars. I guess it has worked with the profits up so much,.,



    yep, and these days profits are all that matter at porsche. this was the strategy in the late 80s as well and porsche almost went down the drain. i suspect this time though they'll just [censored] away one of the best sports car reputations on the planet in exchange for a MB or BMW type business. but as long as profits are high...



    i agree to an extent, although they still have their "race" cars... GT3, GT2, and what do you know the carrera gt, your own car... you critize porsche so badly yet you drive their ultimate...

    Re: Porsche Expanding Production

    Quote:
    AndrewSS said:
    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    Quote:
    rss996 said:
    They figured that they need to sell luxury cars at this price rather than race cars. I guess it has worked with the profits up so much,.,



    yep, and these days profits are all that matter at porsche. this was the strategy in the late 80s as well and porsche almost went down the drain. i suspect this time though they'll just [censored] away one of the best sports car reputations on the planet in exchange for a MB or BMW type business. but as long as profits are high...



    i agree to an extent, although they still have their "race" cars... GT3, GT2, and what do you know the carrera gt, your own car... you critize porsche so badly yet you drive their ultimate...



    Please some facts and perspective, other than ben how many actually own a gt2, gt3, cgt. Those numbers are laughable, and for the tens of thousands of other p-car owners, who the hell cares about the above mentioned models. When i drive my car my enjoyment is derived from the immense capabilities IT has not the fact that Porsche may have won a race last month.

    As to the late 80's, that was the high tide of porsche racing and production. I do not know if any of you were in a porsche showroom then but i was and what they had was incredible compared to every other manufacturer including Fuhraahree.
    What almost did them in was what is beginning to happen now, a major disadvantageous swing in the value of the greenback.

    Tom

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 2/14/19 1:26 AM
    watt
    331119 2045
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 2/21/19 8:38 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    218702 1126
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 2/21/19 6:45 PM
    Porsche-Jeck
    146331 2580
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/21/19 10:50 PM
    bvineyards
    62809 824
    Porsche Sticky Paint protection film 2/18/19 9:28 AM
    RCA
    16328 149
    Porsche Sticky Child seats in a 991 11/29/18 3:43 PM
    RCA
    14695 35
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet 2/18/19 11:28 AM
    RCA
    10268 127
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 2/18/19 8:51 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    3293 60
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 1/4/19 7:02 PM
    Topspeed
    486952 4255
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 2/19/19 11:40 PM
    4trac
    422702 5222
    Porsche 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) Thread Closed 11/29/18 11:38 AM
    RCA
    318184 3195
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/31/18 2:19 AM
    DJM48
    286738 2598
    Porsche Cayman GT4 2/19/19 8:00 PM
    dreamcar
    280964 2760
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 1/30/19 3:10 AM
    ha
    219695 2777
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 1/17/19 8:13 PM
    GoHardGT3RS
    195652 1789
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 2/18/19 10:28 AM
    RCA
    191720 3355
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 12/17/18 12:42 PM
    RCA
    157876 2491
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 8/31/18 10:25 AM
    WAY
    144633 757
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 5/22/18 9:16 PM
    RCA
    113034 789
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 5/3/18 7:52 PM
    CGX car nut
    107946 871
    Porsche Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 2/18/19 1:00 PM
    RCA
    99205 1370
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 12/7/18 10:15 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    68859 673
    Others Tesla Roadster 2/21/19 11:27 PM
    SciFrog
    57809 1742
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models 11/3/18 11:09 AM
    bluelines
    48445 477
    Others Tesla Model X Thread Closed 2/23/18 3:41 PM
    RCA
    43591 1122
    AMG AMG GT R 11/30/18 4:10 PM
    RCA
    43153 605
    Lambo Aventador and SV 11/19/18 8:31 AM
    RCA
    40878 472
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo S Exclusive Series (2017) 12/4/18 3:17 PM
    BiTurbo
    40641 650
    AMG Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 2/14/19 1:44 PM
    RCA
    40308 387
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Porsche Carrera T 12/13/18 2:27 PM
    RCA
    39240 804
    270 items found, displaying 1 to 30.