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    Anyone interested?

    Real CGT on ebay

    Re: Anyone interested?

    If that is the one from the LA show.. I thought Jerry S had spoken for that one?

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Quote:
    Porsche Fan said:
    If that is the one from the LA show.. I thought Jerry S had spoken for that one?



    I don't think so. It's from this dealer's site.

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Jerry's Carrera GT is serial number 006, and the car for sale at
    McKenna is 007. Interesting, huh ? Revvv

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Quote:
    Ron (Houston) said:
    Real CGT on ebay



    Porsche won't like it at all to see this car on eBay.
    I'm sure the dealer who sold this car to the customer and the customer will soon have mail from them.
    If it is the official Porsche dealer who sells this car on eBay, he'll be even in serious trouble I guess.

    Re: Anyone interested?

    You're right, if the dealer is selling the car on Ebay, he may be in big trouble. I was told, they were not allowed to sell new cars above MRSP.... If it's a used car, it's a different story.... I'm not quite sure the CGT can be qualified as a used car even if it has 20 miles on the clock...

    May be in the future Porsche will force people to lease cars from them like Ferrari did late 80's.... that would make sense to stop speculation building-up.

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Let them be shot. This car was advertised in the Los Angeles Times last week. I actually called them up to see what they would sell the car for...are you reading PAG???

    Drum roll please...are you guys ready!?!?!?!

    $710,000...a markup of a little over 250k!!!!

    Good luck meeting the reserve price on eBay. I'll take mine at MSRP thank you.

    Cheers,
    -Nick

    Re: Anyone interested?

    First Carrera GT in the U.S. of A !!!

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Man.. That is a SERIOUS mark up!!!
    I will be anxious to hear what Porsche AG does about this..


    Eric Mckenna

    Re: Anyone interested?

    " I was told, they were not allowed to sell new cars above MRSP...."

    Anti-trust rules probably prohibit this sort of rule though Porsche has other ways to "punish" this sort of behavior. Then again, US P-car dealers aren't doing too great right now and would probably love to sell 20 normal p-cars+ equivalent worth of profit on this CGT.

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Actually, the price is not too far out of line considering it will be one of the first in the US. Some anxious waiter with more money than patience probably will buy it above MSRP.

    BTW this is very similar situation to the TT Cab. initial markup. The very first in the US were being marked up by $50,000. Today you cannot get MSRP for them.

    Porsche has a serious brand value problem and I have no doubt it will have a negative impact on pricing of this car in the future.

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Actually, the price is not too far out of line considering it will be one of the first in the US. Some anxious waiter with more money than patience probably will buy it above MSRP.



    You mean "waiter" as in "restaurant server"? Their tips are that good these days?




    BTW this is very similar situation to the TT Cab. initial markup. The very first in the US were being marked up by $50,000. Today you cannot get MSRP for them.



    Yeh, like they have been on the market now for about 4 years!



    Porsche has a serious brand value problem and I have no doubt it will have a negative impact on pricing of this car in the future.


    Tell that to Chrysler, GM, Ford.




    fritz

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Hey Fritz, you work for Porsche?

    Sport car sales figures for Porsche have plummeted despite the fact these cars are being highly discounted. If you want to know why, get your head out of Porsches' rear end.

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Hey Fritz, you work for Porsche?

    Sport car sales figures for Porsche have plummeted despite the fact these cars are being highly discounted. If you want to know why, get your head out of Porsches' rear end.



    Hi Nick,

    Your posts have been so lop-sided that there was a real risk of them falling off the left side of my screen.
    I took it upon myself to restore the balance by pulling the other way.

    It's a fact of life that products go through a life cycle, being in high demand early on in that cycle. The demand tapers off later, meaning that the manufacturer either has to roll out a new product, maintain sales by offering incentives, or live with the lower demand. The economics of building automobiles don't allow a new model generation to be introduced every year.

    Some manufacturers even find themselves having to offer incentives from the introduction of their product, hence my reference to Chrysler, Ford, etc..

    The ability to recognize the facts of life does not imply a brown nose.
    Enthusiasm for a good product, as demonstrated by a lot of the people on this site (yeh, OK Bilal, including you ), is pretty normal and healthy. Don't know if I'd want to say the same for constant side-swiping and bitching, because I think life's too short to spend one's leisure time on being totally negative.

    fritz

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Porsche makes an excellent sport car. That I do not deny. My problem with Porsche as many FORMER Porsche owners have stated to me is Porche has absolutely no concern for its customer base especially with respect to vehicle retained value.

    The classic example is the CGT. Initially they were going to only build 750 at a cost of $350,000. They took non refundable deposits for $50,000 and subsequently doubled production and increased the price of the car by 30%. Today they are struggling to sell the 1500 cars and are marketing the crap out of it. One can only sympathize with the prospective owners with what is going to happen to the value of their car. I know they could care less.

    Look what they did to the TT market. It was a very hot car with rising value. In their gluttony for profit, they flooded the market with TT's and now owners of these cars are experiencing a free fall in value.

    How about the Boxster made to look like the 996? When I had my 996 Cab. I wish I had a dollar for each time someone asked me how I like the cheaper Porsche.

    I can go on but you get the picture. Porsche is a terrific car but buy one with the knowledge the manufacturer will exploit it to your detriment.

    Finally if my negativity in a small way changes Porsche behavior then it is worth the effort. Unfortunately I do not hold out hope especially with people like yourself who build a shrine to Porsche in your home.

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Quote:
    fritz said:

    I took it upon myself to restore the balance by pulling the other way.





    Fritz,

    Don't feed the trolls. Just like pidgeons, they only get more annoying if one does.

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Mike lets keep our facts straight. I have been participating on the board since Feb 2002. You joined in August 2003 apparently when your interest in the CGT peaked. You label me the troll?

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Porsche makes an excellent sport car. That I do not deny. My problem with Porsche as many FORMER Porsche owners have stated to me is Porche has absolutely no concern for its customer base especially with respect to vehicle retained value.

    The classic example is the CGT. Initially they were going to only build 750 at a cost of $350,000. They took non refundable deposits for $50,000 and subsequently doubled production and increased the price of the car by 30%. Today they are struggling to sell the 1500 cars and are marketing the crap out of it. One can only sympathize with the prospective owners with what is going to happen to the value of their car. I know they could care less.

    Look what they did to the TT market. It was a very hot car with rising value. In their gluttony for profit, they flooded the market with TT's and now owners of these cars are experiencing a free fall in value.

    How about the Boxster made to look like the 996? When I had my 996 Cab. I wish I had a dollar for each time someone asked me how I like the cheaper Porsche.

    I can go on but you get the picture. Porsche is a terrific car but buy one with the knowledge the manufacturer will exploit it to your detriment.

    Finally if my negativity in a small way changes Porsche behavior then it is worth the effort. Unfortunately I do not hold out hope especially with people like yourself who build a shrine to Porsche in your home.



    Amen Nick...thank-you. I finally understand where you're coming from. Many times I've asked you why you're so negative towards Porsche, but you never managed to produce an answer. I see your point and do agree with you.

    However, maybe you might allow us to just enjoy the discussion of the CGT instead of posting negative comments in nearly every CGT thread. Have you noticed that whenever you chime in with a negative comment, the thread deteriorates and RC has to close it?

    Personally, I don't mind an argument here and there, but this is getting old. You guys have to stop feeding Nick. Just be secure in the knowledge you're buying a very awesome car in the CGT, I know I am...no need to defend your purchase. And Nick, just grow up a bit and allow us to discuss the CGT...I don't want to see this thread locked. If you're so unhappy about Porsche, go mingle with the Ferrari people. As I stated before to you...we don't come over and post negative comments about Ferrari...so you should show some consideration too.

    Also...correction, you joined this board on April 12, 2002. I don't think it was even created yet in February. Also, I've known RC since the Funcar days when he first got his Turbo back in mid 2000 and joined this board April 8, 4 days before you. Does that make me an older hand than you?

    Let's all just chill and discuss the CGT!!! We should be grateful that there are sooo many exotics to choose from and marvel over in the period we're in!!!

    Cheers,
    -Nick

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Mike lets keep our facts straight. I have been participating on the board since Feb 2002. You joined in August 2003 apparently when your interest in the CGT peaked. You label me the troll?



    troll v.,n. 1. [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or, the post itself.
    2. An individual who chronically trolls in sense 1; regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion.

    Re: Anyone interested?

    I just drove the Carrera GT on project gotham 2 on xbox. This is pretty much the only way i (and most likely the grand majority of car lovers) i would be able to experience the awesome performance of the car. I was blown away. I drove it back to back with the enzo.

    now, obviously, its not very realistic, but it IS rooted in reality, so like i said, its the closest i can get.

    If i had the money, i would buy one in a second....and not look back or regret the decision for a single moment.

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Porsche makes an excellent sport car. That I do not deny. My problem with Porsche as many FORMER Porsche owners have stated to me is Porche has absolutely no concern for its customer base especially with respect to vehicle retained value.

    The classic example is the CGT. Initially they were going to only build 750 at a cost of $350,000. They took non refundable deposits for $50,000 and subsequently doubled production and increased the price of the car by 30%. Today they are struggling to sell the 1500 cars and are marketing the crap out of it. One can only sympathize with the prospective owners with what is going to happen to the value of their car. I know they could care less.

    Look what they did to the TT market. It was a very hot car with rising value. In their gluttony for profit, they flooded the market with TT's and now owners of these cars are experiencing a free fall in value.

    How about the Boxster made to look like the 996? When I had my 996 Cab. I wish I had a dollar for each time someone asked me how I like the cheaper Porsche.

    I can go on but you get the picture. Porsche is a terrific car but buy one with the knowledge the manufacturer will exploit it to your detriment.

    Finally if my negativity in a small way changes Porsche behavior then it is worth the effort. Unfortunately I do not hold out hope especially with people like yourself who build a shrine to Porsche in your home.



    Well, I have a feeling that Porsche won't have much trouble selling the remaining CGTs in the future. It's quite a big commitment to put in a non-refundable $50k and only to get the car in 2006 at the earliest. I think even serious CGT buyers (unless those with very deep pockets) will tend to put off with the commitment till later. And at this point, people still don't know how good the CGT is. I'm sure the CGT will end up to be a great car, and eventually all the allocation will be taken.

    About that undriveable Carrera GT

    Nick: I see there's some pictures of a wrecked Enzo in the Ferrari forum. How come you haven't been posting comments in that thread that it's a sure sign that mere mortal drivers can't handle an Enzo? Or asking how much Joe's Paint & Body is going to charge for the body work since you were so sure the Enzo doesn't require a return visit to the factory for repairs like the CGT?

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Frankly, I think that Nick is right at least with regards to the statements on pricing strategy and production number of the CGT.

    When I was asked to place the deposit of Euro 50.000 for the CGT several months prior to the introduction of the car my dealer (after consulting Stuttgart) was not even in a position to tell me final hp output, final weight figures, final production numbers nor final price. After that "experience", I phoned a leading German dealer for high-end cars and asked him about his judgment regarding expected value depreciation of the CGT and the chances to buy one in the grey market later. He frankly told me that he would recommend not to go for an "official" one (obviously it appears that this statement may be biased by his common business sense, but in this particular case I have reasons to trust his opinion). That was the time when I cancelled my order.

    I indeed think that the planned production of 1500 cars is too much for a truely exclusive car - although I must agree that the performance demonstrated in various tests is pretty amazing (except straight line acceleration)

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Porsche makes an excellent sport car. That I do not deny. My problem with Porsche as many FORMER Porsche owners have stated to me is Porche has absolutely no concern for its customer base especially with respect to vehicle retained value.

    The classic example is the CGT. Initially they were going to only build 750 at a cost of $350,000. They took non refundable deposits for $50,000 and subsequently doubled production and increased the price of the car by 30%. Today they are struggling to sell the 1500 cars and are marketing the crap out of it. One can only sympathize with the prospective owners with what is going to happen to the value of their car. I know they could care less.

    Look what they did to the TT market. It was a very hot car with rising value. In their gluttony for profit, they flooded the market with TT's and now owners of these cars are experiencing a free fall in value.

    How about the Boxster made to look like the 996? When I had my 996 Cab. I wish I had a dollar for each time someone asked me how I like the cheaper Porsche.

    I can go on but you get the picture. Porsche is a terrific car but buy one with the knowledge the manufacturer will exploit it to your detriment.

    Finally if my negativity in a small way changes Porsche behavior then it is worth the effort. Unfortunately I do not hold out hope especially with people like yourself who build a shrine to Porsche in your home.



    Boy, does that confirm what another member has mentioned before, and I couldn't agree more, I will repeat those wise words since I agree completely: "Most of the queasiness that I hear seems to emanate from those who consider cars as a piece of their investment portfolio. From previous experience with this personality type, I avoid talking to them as much as possible. I got really tired of them about 20 years ago when they were buying Ferrari 288 GTOs, and the like. As I get older, I like them even less. They have a perfect right to their avocation and I don't wish them any ill. I'm not their kind of car guy and I'd prefer not to hang out with them."

    Porsche makes cars to be driven and enjoyed, not for investing or posing, there are other brands for that already. Too bad they build too many TT's, so? now more people can enjoy them and they are more accesible. Too bad some people may have confused your 996cab with the boxster and lowered your "image" to the boxsters level, that must have been horrible , afterall you "paid" for a 996cab's image, what a rip off, huh?. Too bad if the CGT does not seem like a good investment, now the poeple who really want to enjoy and drive the car rather than using it as part of their portfolio will be the ones getting them.

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Unfortunately any post which is not effusive in praise of the CGT or Porsche is considered negative and specious.

    I have never questioned the performance of the car. I have stated that I would prefer it to the Enzo because of the top down design though probably would choose the Enzo because of the substantially higher resale value. My arguments regarding Porsches' lack of customer sensitivity and lost of brand image have never been refuted by anyone. On more than one occasion, I have been personally attacked and never responded in kind.

    Yet I am told to grow up?

    Clearly what is involved here is the regular posters want no opinion other than those that glorify and exalt the car. That I can understand especially from those individuals who need constant affirmation that they made the right choice in buying the car.

    Since whatever I post is considered negative and apparently upset some participants, I will no longer post on this subject. Censorship is at work and has done its job.

    Re: Anyone interested?

    I've been enjoying your posts Berry, nothing like argumentation and sufurous discussion
    I do not tend to come to you rescue, but just give my opinion.
    From my own experience, any new car will lose a lot of value, that's what happens when you buy a new car.
    Exceptions include the Ferrari Supercars, the MCLF1 and some great classics, but that's about it really.
    The CGT will depreciate in a couple of years bc there are 1500 made although not too much I should think. The SLR even more.
    Did you know that the Ferrari V12 are amongst the biggest depreciators cars! True my man.
    A 575 is well over 200,000 Euros new and you can find one year old models at official dealership for just above 160,000 now, that's a whopping 25% in one year.
    Porsches average 20%. Which is a bit better than industry standard.
    In the performance car segment, the wooden spoon goes to BMW, the day you turn the key for the first time, the car loses 30%!!!
    You can get a one year old 760Li for 60% of its new price today.
    Our S600 is not left on the side, unfortunately...
    Ferrari does really well with V8 models because production is limited and desirability is high although, you can find nice 360 now for about 100,000 Euros, that's a nice 50% depreciation on a four year old model.
    One of the worst is Maserati. Fantastic cars, but suffering from serious reliability issues and costumer trust. Expect to lose 40% in one year.
    You see my friend, Porsche does actually quite well amongst all those cars, and most of all, it has to increase its production in order to stay independant.
    I understand Carlito's statement, there cars are made to be driven, not stay in the garage keeping their value, but I also understand the concern of worried new car owners, it's normal after all, and to those I say, do not be troubled, as Porsche is one of the best brands in term of residual value.

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Fanch, I wouldn't say better.
    and everybody has his own opinion about the car meaning.
    Respect !

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Quote:
    W8MM said:

    Fritz,

    Don't feed the trolls. Just like pidgeons, they only get more annoying if one does.



    Thanks for the advice.
    I liked the way you expressed it. I liked it most though before you told us of the new, modern meaning of the name troll. I'd only known the old Norwegian one up until then:

    According to Merriam-Webster:
    "Norwegian troll, .. demon; probably akin to Middle High German trolle > lout ............
    a dwarf ... in Scandinavian folklore inhabiting caves ..."

    After that, the modern interpretation you gave is a disappointment!

    fritz

    Re: Anyone interested?

    Quote:
    carlos fromspain said:
    Boy, does that confirm what another member has mentioned before, and I couldn't agree more, I will repeat those wise words since I agree completely: "Most of the queasiness that I hear seems to emanate from those who consider cars as a piece of their investment portfolio. From previous experience with this personality type, I avoid talking to them as much as possible. I got really tired of them about 20 years ago when they were buying Ferrari 288 GTOs, and the like. As I get older, I like them even less. They have a perfect right to their avocation and I don't wish them any ill. I'm not their kind of car guy and I'd prefer not to hang out with them."



    Thats a great quote Carlos. it is originally from evo, i believe? Either way a great quote and one that i love reading.

    cheers

    eric

    Re: Anyone interested?

    i could actually be mistaken, but i thought i recalled reading that or somthing very similar in one of the editorials published in evo...

     
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