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    Apple Project Titan

    Well, whatever Project Titan is (and it's interesting to note the Prometheus was a Titan) -- Apple car, Apple car systems, something automotive, based on hires -- it seems pretty serious now. Apparently they've put Bob Mansfield, who had previously retired and then returned as an advisor, in charge of it, so now it's being run by a big gun, which indicates its perceived importance within the company. I still just can't see the interest for Apple in building and selling an actual car, but, whatever they are working on they certainly mean to do it.


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    No doubt it is at the minimum a semi autonomous electric car... That's the future Smiley


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    I don't have a clue what it is but I am pretty sure that Apple knows what they're doing. 
     

    It also proves that Apple isn't shy of trying new things, good for them.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)



    Re: Apple Project Titan

    apias:

    Apple bolsters 'Project Titan' self-driving software team with former QNX CEO

    QNX is amazing but may have seen it's zenith though...but still pretty fast and secure for embedded software systems.

    I still have my BB Playbook but haven't used it for years... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    Still highly doubt they are building a car. Most likely it is just technology they intend to license. Even if they do build a car, the impact of it will be less material to Apple than even the Apple Watch. They'd pretty much have to buy a manufacturer and even then you'd be looking at only a few million/year install base assuming 100% of the cars you sold were the new product.

    More than likely they'd like to license their technology so it could be adopted by millions of cars across all brands. I'm not sure how successful they'll be at this considering everyone and their brother is dumping huge amounts of money and resources into it too and may not want to sell their cars with Apple's technology if theirs will be free and sufficient.


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    RC:
    apias:

    Apple bolsters 'Project Titan' self-driving software team with former QNX CEO

    QNX is amazing but may have seen it's zenith though...but still pretty fast and secure for embedded software systems.

    I still have my BB Playbook but haven't used it for years... Smiley

    Well, they didn't buy QNX, just a talent hire, but it indicates they want/need to take the OS somewhere beyond where the current Mach/BSD architecture takes them.


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    I guess the word embedded is the secret here...so definitely something (very likely) more than just software only.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    noone1:

    Still highly doubt they are building a car. Most likely it is just technology they intend to license. Even if they do build a car, the impact of it will be less material to Apple than even the Apple Watch. They'd pretty much have to buy a manufacturer and even then you'd be looking at only a few million/year install base assuming 100% of the cars you sold were the new product.

    More than likely they'd like to license their technology so it could be adopted by millions of cars across all brands. I'm not sure how successful they'll be at this considering everyone and their brother is dumping huge amounts of money and resources into it too and may not want to sell their cars with Apple's technology if theirs will be free and sufficient.

    There also remains the possibility that the Apple Car is just a cover story and that they are actually working on something entirely different. While that might seem unlikely, given the specific hires they have made, it is pretty hard to see the business case for what would be a low margin product (relative to their normal margins) at best.

    I think Porsche has the best margins in the industry, around 23-24%, if I recall correctly, which is significantly below Apple's current margins, and I don't see how they are going to make up the difference in volume selling cars. Software licensing would be a big departure, and I don't know if they would go this route either.

    Clearly, Titan is a big project, but exactly what project it is isn't necessarily so definite as everyone thinks, in my opinion.


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    RC:

    I guess the word embedded is the secret here...so definitely something (very likely) more than just software only.

    Or "real-time".


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    Selling software for cars doesn't seem a big enough market for Apple to move the needle. They need to partner with a German brand and build they own car in cooperation...


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    SciFrog:

    Selling software for cars doesn't seem a big enough market for Apple to move the needle. They need to partner with a German brand and build they own car in cooperation...

    I kind of have a feeling that Apple isn't building a Tesla competitor or something similar... I rather think they are thinking mass commute in a way or another. Why did Apple invest more than a billion in ride hailing service Didi Chuxing? This could be an indication what kind of path Apple is following with project Titan.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    Well, we are still waiting for flying cars. (Although, one would have thought that Musk would have been all over that, such a natural fit with his other interests.) Maybe they are carrying on with anti-gravity research.


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    I don't think that Apple gave the project the name Titan by chance, so I tried to figure out the meaning but wasn't too successful.

    How about this?  http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/titanism


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    Well, Prometheus, who gave (or gave back) fire to humans, according to the myth, was a Titan. That's one possible reference.


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    Selling software for cars doesn't seem a big enough market for Apple to move the needle. They need to partner with a German brand and build they own car in cooperation...

    I kind of have a feeling that Apple isn't building a Tesla competitor or something similar... I rather think they are thinking mass commute in a way or another. Why did Apple invest more than a billion in ride hailing service Didi Chuxing? This could be an indication what kind of path Apple is following with project Titan.

    Agreed, still they would be designing a car and someone else would build it...


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    Do companies have to license Car Play?

    Some sort of public/shared transportation, like their own Uber, would be possible I guess, but it would still just be Uber essentially.

    There are still some really obvious issues regarding what people are expecting.

    1. If they're going to build something themselves, it would be obvious and take tons of time to build/tool a factory for volume car production. They'd have to buy a major manufacturer to get access to volume production. In the US that means enormous pension liability, capital investment, current long-term plans, etc.

    2. If they're going to build an EV in volume, they'll need their own Gigafactory to appear out of thin air and very quickly.

    3. If they'd want someone else to build it, it's unlikely someone like BMW is going to build cars for Apple that ruin their own business, and I don't see much indication that such a business model is viable in the world of automobiles. Margins in the automotive world aren't even good if you're building your own cars, let alone buying from someone else.

    4. Truly self-driving cars are not only pretty far away still, but there isn't even safety regulations for them yet. Something very basic like Auto Pilot is not going to cut it.

    5. Without truly self-driving cars, I wouldn't expect a revolution in some sort of Uber-rival. They're invested in Didi too, so I don't think Didi would have taken an investment from Apple if Apple was going to use it against them.

    6. If it is a car technology and not a service idea like Uber, it will be tough to compete unless they have something truly unique and revolutionary. This kind of technology simply takes a lot of time. Apple may have $200B, but it won't take $200B to create. Google, Ford, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc all have more than enough money to invest in this technology and more than enough talent. It's just very unlikely that could have such a substantially better product than all of these companies.


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    noone1:

    Do companies have to license Car Play?

    You don't have to license CarPlay, but you have to be accepted into the MFi program (same program as other accessory makers).

    Is there a program fee for participation in the MFi Program?

    There is no program fee at this time. However, all program applicants must purchase and complete a company identity verification through a secure, third party Web-site.


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    Selling software for cars doesn't seem a big enough market for Apple to move the needle. They need to partner with a German brand and build they own car in cooperation...

    I kind of have a feeling that Apple isn't building a Tesla competitor or something similar... I rather think they are thinking mass commute in a way or another. Why did Apple invest more than a billion in ride hailing service Didi Chuxing? This could be an indication what kind of path Apple is following with project Titan.

    Mercedes-Benz and Tesla See a Future in Electric Self-Driving Buses


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    Apple Granted Patent for 'Articulated Vehicle'


    The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office today granted Apple with a patent, assigned from BAE Systems, for an invention titled "steering device for articulated vehicle." U.S. Patent No. 9,409,599, filed in July 2015, describes various steering devices for an articulated vehicle, such as a pivoting bus or transport truck. While vehicle-related, the patent's relation to Apple's electric vehicle is questionable.

    -- http://www.macrumors.com/2016/08/09/apple-car-hollow-batteries-korea/

    ... and partnered with a hollow battery company. 


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    apias:
    RC:
    SciFrog:

    Selling software for cars doesn't seem a big enough market for Apple to move the needle. They need to partner with a German brand and build they own car in cooperation...

    I kind of have a feeling that Apple isn't building a Tesla competitor or something similar... I rather think they are thinking mass commute in a way or another. Why did Apple invest more than a billion in ride hailing service Didi Chuxing? This could be an indication what kind of path Apple is following with project Titan.

    Mercedes-Benz and Tesla See a Future in Electric Self-Driving Buses

    Self-driving low speed (under 62 mph or 100 kph) mass transport actually makes a lot of sense...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    I think Google's interest in autonomous vehicles is along the lines of J.G Ballard's "The Subliminal Man". Apple, hopefully, has a more positive vision for this technology, although it's difficult to think they are working on something purely as a public service project. Perhaps it will be evident when this project is revealed, but right now I just can't see the financial motivation for it. I think any direction is possible with this project.

    And, I still entertain the idea that an Apple Car or other vehicle is really a cover for something else entirely.


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    apias:

    I think Google's interest in autonomous vehicles is along the lines of J.G Ballard's "The Subliminal Man". Apple, hopefully, has a more positive vision for this technology, although it's difficult to think they are working on something purely as a public service project. Perhaps it will be evident when this project is revealed, but right now I just can't see the financial motivation for it. I think any direction is possible with this project.

    And, I still entertain the idea that an Apple Car or other vehicle is really a cover for something else entirely.

    Like that Apple TV rumor during Steve Jobs' time...everyone thought Apple is going to make their own TV set. As far as I heard, that was never the case but it still remains a mystery what this rumor was all about.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    RC:
    apias:

    I think Google's interest in autonomous vehicles is along the lines of J.G Ballard's "The Subliminal Man". Apple, hopefully, has a more positive vision for this technology, although it's difficult to think they are working on something purely as a public service project. Perhaps it will be evident when this project is revealed, but right now I just can't see the financial motivation for it. I think any direction is possible with this project.

    And, I still entertain the idea that an Apple Car or other vehicle is really a cover for something else entirely.

    Like that Apple TV rumor during Steve Jobs' time...everyone thought Apple is going to make their own TV set. As far as I heard, that was never the case but it still remains a mystery what this rumor was all about.

    Yes, that was another case where Apple was rumored to be about to enter a low margin industry. Some analysts and others were adamant for years that it was happening real soon now. But Apple never had any intention of making TVs. I think it's entirely possible that Apple encouraged those rumors as a distraction, and that it's entirely possible they are doing the same in this case.

    On the other hand, I doubt they have hired all these people to work on a phantom project, so, there is likely something in the works, I'm just not convinced what that is.


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    A robotic, self-driving taxi system would be genius. Kind of an Uber but without drivers. Doors open only after you identify yourself (with a special RF ID card or your phone) and the payment is automatic once you exit the car. No more hassle with unfriendly taxi drivers...precise prediction when the car is going to arrive to pick you up and very safe since the doors open and close with identification only and/or if someone from the inside presses an (emergency) button.

    Or maybe some sort of car sharing system, where people can pick up an "Apple car" just around the corner (at a fuel station or a major supermarket) and drive it, identifying themselves with their iPhone and then return it wherever they please and the next driver can see on his iPhone where the car is and can take it from there and continue to use it.

    Maybe even a combination of both? I don't have a clue but it is going to be interesting.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    I think such a system is pretty close! Personally this is a great idea! 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: Apple Project Titan

    Pretty much already available in Portland a decade ago.

    Re: Apple Project Titan

    Gladstone:
    Pretty much already available in Portland a decade ago.

    I think you overlooked (or misinterpreted) this part of RC's Post: "A robotic, self-driving taxi system would be genius".  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    fritz:
    Gladstone:
    Pretty much already available in Portland a decade ago.

    I think you overlooked (or misinterpreted) this part of RC's Post: "A robotic, self-driving taxi system would be genius".  Smiley

    Smiley Smiley Unless Portland is on another planet... Smiley

    I think Gladstone was referring to the car sharing system, we have this stuff over here as well but it isn't really that advanced, just basically renting a car directly from the street (certain locations) with your smartphone.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Audi R8 V10 Plus (2017), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: Apple Project Titan

    RC:
    fritz:
    Gladstone:
    Pretty much already available in Portland a decade ago.

    I think you overlooked (or misinterpreted) this part of RC's Post: "A robotic, self-driving taxi system would be genius".  Smiley

    Smiley Smiley Unless Portland is on another planet... Smiley

    I think Gladstone was referring to the car sharing system, we have this stuff over here as well but it isn't really that advanced, just basically renting a car directly from the street (certain locations) with your smartphone.

    Well, the system is older than the smartphone. You could even reserve a car by dumbphone.   Smiley 


    --

    fritz


     
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