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    Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stGRz7X9dZA

    I am not sure if this is a re-post because it is an older video.

    However, the logic employed that characterizes the different culture of Porsches and Ferrari is timeless.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    love it - thanks for sharing - and the best part is that prices have come down considerably lately also since the MK2 arrived.....


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    Thanks for the share. As always its nice to watch Clarkson!

    Amazing, he says its even faster as a Ferrari!


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    Lars997:

    Thanks for the share. As always its nice to watch Clarkson!

    Amazing, he says its even faster as a Ferrari!

    Yes, faster "out here in the real world with crests and dips and bumps and blind brows" 

    Another line I liked is that "Porsche is more about engineering, Ferrari about passion" which is very correct IMO.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    Yepp Reginos, I think the engeneering vs. passion approach sets the point!


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    That ^^ might have been true 20 years ago but not now, Ferraris F1 program has really benefited the road cars and they kick butt on Porsche in the engineering area. No dispute.

     

    And because Porsche does not make an exceptional sounding or looking car currently they try to fall back on the engineering tag. Sorry but the fact is wendell lived off the past engineering and racing success in the pursuit of money and then ENGINEERED the biggest stock market disaster in Auto history.

     

    The CGT is the only saving grace and that should have had paddles.


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    racerx:

    Porsche does not make an exceptional sounding or looking car currently they try to fall back on the engineering tag.  

    The CGT is the only saving grace and that should have had paddles.

    You have obviously never heard or driven a GT3 or GT3 RS.Smiley These cars make over 115 hp per liter, sound amazing, and get 20+ mpg. Both cars look fantastic IMHO (ok the RS without the decals) and handle better than any car in production. They also offer more feedback, feel, and driver enjoyment than any car under $200k.
     


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    That is the one I had in mind when I typed. (because I think turbo's and super chargers are lazy)

    But it looks like any other 911 with an ironing board on back. Most wings suck. Most serious people don't buy cars with wings. Putting a wing on the 928 in 1987 killed sales. Mercedes and Aston make some of the nicest and most expensive cars yet really NO WINGS. Even Lambo uses wings sparingly now.

     

    How could you stomach one of those loud colored, decaled, winged, roll cageed GT#RS cars after about a week. A GT3 in a dark color is better. But it still is not a great sounding car compared to most ferraris, astons, and some others even the new muscle cars.

    The fact that it can rev is great but at the low 400's chp it is no 458 or gallardo and if it needs more cylinders then give it more cylinders. Who cares about hp/ltr?  What do have a slide rule attached to your belt? All that matters is how much you have.

    Fun car - Yes, special looking or sounding  No.

    I saw one a couple months back barely gave it a look because the 911 Icon status is a double edged sword Icon - yes, Boring - Yes, Common - Yes, Well-built - Yes.

    That is why I was so hoping the panamera was going to be a return to  great styling and it was an Epic disappointment. The brand has been so mismanaged! Maybe Piech can clean things up.

     

    Want to see engineering look at a One-77 or 458 or the 750 HP 928 I posted, want to see tried and true look at a GT3.

     


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    The wing is functional and provides over 200 lbs of downforce. The car looks its purpose, a track all star that can be driven every day. I know several "serious people" who do so. I mention HP per liter because there was some dispute that Porsche has fallen behind in engineering. The fact that with 435 hp and 3100 lbs the GT3 laps the 'ring faster than any gallardo and within 1 second of the Scuderia is a serious accomplishment. AM has never produced a car that drove as well as it looked. There is no comparison between the engineering poured into a GT3 and the posuer AM's. Perhaps the AM one 77 will change that but at $1,000,000+ it had better. My guess is the GT3 will still be more involving/pleasurable to drive. If you had driven the new GT3 (I have) you would know that it sounds beautiful and raw, it handles direct, solid, and with limits so far above my skill that I don't dare approach them on the street. Not to mention the brakes! There is no point comparing a aftermarket car such as the 750hp 928 to one built for series production. 435 not enough power? 0-100 mph in less than 9 seconds not fast enough? Take it to sharkwerks and recieve 500+ natuarally aspirated hp and acceleration that will leave gallardos and ferraris in its dust. I want one in white or black!!!


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    trip:

    If you had driven the new GT3 (I have) you would know that it sounds beautiful and raw, it handles direct, solid, and with limits so far above my skill that I don't dare approach them on the street. Not to mention the brakes!


    You have to drive the GT3 to become a believer - great post, Trip Smiley Also you can have fun with these babies lap after lap after lap after.....without any probs and without fearing that they burst out in flames Smiley Regarding the sound: I appreciate the sound of the F-cars at high RPMs, but at cruising speed it sounds a bit exaggerated IMO - maybe "not serious" would be the more suitable wording Smiley


    --
    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

     Wing is functional - I hope so, but it still looks cheesy, my wingless 928 is stable at high triple w/o a wing. Is there a need for a wing, if so is there a weakness in the 911 body aerodynamics, yet other 911's have no wing yet can go 180+. So I am thinking the wing is more for looks.

    GT3RS - serious car OR serious track toy? Would you go to a business meeting in a suit in a bright lime green winged decaled GT3RS over an SL65, S550, 612, or AM V8?

    Same question applies to taking a gf out to a nice restaurant.

     

    My original post applied to road cars for the purpose of driving on public roads for most purposes a high end car will see duty as. Thats what these cars are made for. Driving in comfort in a great looking vehicle that is capable of great performance.

     

    Not a track oriented tool like the RS. 

     

    Lets use a recent rennteam example as the optimal test of car functionality - Lunch at the Kennels and country drive afterwards!!

    What would you rather drive for many hours that day - a lime green look at me track tool or an AM one-77, ferrari 599, murciealago, ZR-1, Bentley CGT, SL65 Black, or an upgraded 928.

     

     

    For a street car on public roads 200-300 km/h times, NBR lap times, brake fade.......... mean sh!t. I guess what I'm getting at is that Porsche has a huge whole in its line-up, no luxury flagship.

     

     


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    I agree with the need for a luxury flagship ala Panamera Coupe/928 reinvisioned. That is not the debate however. Nor was the debate about which car to better pose in at dinner with the gf or clients. Most who can afford a GT3(RS) can also spare ~$30k for the greatest daily driver/client hauler around, the E39 M5. The argument originated from my objection to the statement that Porsche no longer engineers great cars or that they are no longer leaders in the performance/sports car game. If we are talking about proper sports car dynamics and driving pleasure none of the cars you mentioned in your last post can hold a candle to the GT3. Look at the recent Top Gear mag supercar comparison and their comments on the GT3 vs the exotics it is stacked against. Or ask a race car driver or engineer to drive afformentioned cars and choose a favorite for backroad bombing or track duty. My guess is 99% will choose the GT3 every time. Basically every owner or profesional review out there gushes about how the GT3 is so much more than the sum of its parts, how it is just so "right".

     

    Cars like Gallardos and AMs always have their flaws or leave the driver feeling a tad isolated. With the GT3, every component is honed for fast, fun, efficient, exciting, reliable, safe driving enjoyment, no other purpose. As for the comments on high speed stability/need for the wing. There is a difference between ability to hit 180+ or feeling stable at high triple digits to taking turns at 80+ mph, track performance, and high speed braking. This is where additional downforce is really felt/beneficial. The wing is for handling not looks and it does its job.


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    Nope you miss the point. first off you use the word pose too much, that is for people who hang out at SBUX or idle along main street or sit in front of a club on friday to be seen.

    Any of the above cars can be put to hard use on a fun group drive on deserted country roads, that is not posing.

    Aston built a race version of the DB9 that is on the top of the totem pole in the top gear studio driven by the stig, they just didn't build it for the street, because its for the track. 

    GT3 is a 911 with a wing, potent but not special in looks or sound. GT3RS is a track car period.

    They are missing an exceptional car. as mentuoned above - passion - when you see it drive by or parked. (and most of these other companies have equal or better engineering, watch below)

     

     

     

     


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    Well since you've never driven one and seem to know more than those who have, those who have owned them as well as other sports cars, more than those who review cars for a living, it's not really worth arguing with you. An AM DB9R is a race car and completely irrelevant. GT3 is so much more than a 911 with a wing, it is an exceptional car in almost every respect, but again, you wouldn't know that. The passion is in the driving where it counts.


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

     We are talking engineering not any particular car.AM has the engineering its on the video.

    And to the GT3 I am talking looks and sound and I have seen my share and heard them. Its a 911 with a wing and does not sound special. I never said it was not capable just that that is irrelevant on public roads.

     

    As to driving1, nope, I know of people who have, I have driven a stradale, that is also irrelevant to judging looks and sound.


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

     check this out for posing

     

    http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/stig-lap-v12-vantage


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    I'm not sure what sounding special means to you, but you should really try to drive/get a ride in one and hear the engine note above 4000 rpm, it is musical. Comparing race car engineering to road car engineering is pointless. Toyota builds F1 cars, do they compare to their street cars? No. Check out the Porsche RS Spyder and how it beat Lmp 1 cars until the rules were changed if you want to talk about race car engineering. If you read the stigs comments on the v12 vantage in that top gear article I referenced you will see he does not think highly of the car, and it was several seconds slower than the GT3 around the track. No comparison for driving experience but it sounds and looks nice. There is a measurable difference between the way a regular 911 drives and the way a GT3 drives, it is very noticeable on the road. Sound and looks are subjective by the way so I guess we will just have to disagree on those issues. Smiley I think most rational car enthusiasts would praise the GT3's engine note however.


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    from the top gear site;

     

    Gumpert Apollo 1.17.1
    Ascari A10 1.17.3
    Koenigsegg CCX (with Top Gear spoiler) 1.17.6
    Pagani Zonda F Roadster 1.17.8
    Caterham R500 1.17.9
    Bugatti Veyron 1.18.3
    Pagani Zonda F 1.18.4
    Maserati MC12 1.18.9
    Ferrari Enzo 1.19.0
    Lamborghini LP670 SV 1.19.0
    Ariel Atom 1.19.5
    Lamborghini LP560 1.19.5
    Ferrari Scuderia 1.19.7
    Nissan GT-R 1.19.7
    Lamborghini LP640 1.19.8
    Porsche Carerra GT 1.19.8
    Koenigsegg CCX 1.20.4
    Ascari KZ1 1.20.7
    Mercedes McLaren SLR 1.20.9
    Ferrari 599GTB 1.21.2
    Ford GT 1.21.9
    Ferrari 360 CS 1.22.3
    Porsche GT3 RS 1.22.3
    Corvette Z06 1.22.4
    Noble M15 1.22.5
    Mercedes SL Black 1.23.0
    Murcielago 1.23.7
    Zonda 1.23.8
    Koenigsegg 1.23.9
    Aston Martin DBS 1.23.93
    Veritas RS III 1.24.2
    Prodrive P2 1.24.3
    Audi R8 1.24.4
    TVR Sagaris 1.24.6
    Mitsubishi Evo FQ400 1.24.8
    TVR Tuscan 1.24.8
    Noble M400 1.25.0
    Lotus Exige S 1.25.1
    BMW M3 Saloon 1.25.3
    Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder 1.25.7
    Lotus Evora 1.25.7
    Lamborghini Gallardo 1.25.8
    BMW Z4 M 1.26.0
    Porsche Cayman 1.26.2
    Porsche 911 Carrera 2S 1.26.2
    Brabus Biturbo Roadster 1.26.2
    BMW M5 1.26.2
    VXR Bathurst 1.26.3
    Lotus Exige 1.26.4
    Jaguar XFR 1.26.7
    Chevrolet Corvette 1.26.8
    Lexus IS-F 1.26.8
    Mercedes CLS 55 AMG 1.26.9
    Aston Martin Vanquish S 1.27.1
    Aston Martin DB9 1.27.1
    Holden Maloo 1.27.1
    Telsa Roadster 1.27.2
    Porsche 911 GT3 1.27.2
     

     

     

    Now I have to believe the GT3 sitting in the basement must have been in the rain. But look at the other times;

     

    Lambo and Ferrari 12 cyl. street cars beating the GT3RS track car.

    The stradale I have driven tieing the GT3RS.

    The DBS and Mercedes SL just 1 sec behind the track GT3RS

     

     

    I hope this shows that those are NOT poser cars and that those larger cars are extremely well engineered. To say that Porsche has the engineering while these other makes don't is  ridiculous.

    You know you can like the GT3 all you want and still face facts. All these other cars are much heavier, full of Luxury, sound phenomenal. look exotic and yet perform as well as or better than the GT3. Doesn't mean you are wrong for liking the GT3, but those are the numbers. 

     

     

    And I find that the DB9R did 1:08:6 and unlike the RS spyder it is based loosely on the DB9 and looks like 1, so AM has the engineeering AND the passion.


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    The same day comparison of the 997.2 GT3 and AM V12 Vantage showed a 2+ second gap on the top gear track. The AM costs over $200k, the GT3 costs less than $130k. Facts. I would not quote TG times unless conducted on the same day as I don't believe the Stig is just one driver and the weather is usually a factor. For what its worth the time on the TG website is not for a 997 GT3 RS but a 996 with less than 400hp (notice the GT3RS and 360CS times are identical, these times were from a comparison of the two) and is still faster than the DBS with over 500hp. Kinda proves my point. Sport Auto super test times are far more reliable and have the new, REGULAR GT3 laping the 'ring 12 seconds ahead of the 560 hp LP560-4 and 1 second behind the $300,000 Scuderia. I can't wait for the AMV12 supertest, hopefully it breaks the 8min barrier. I'm not sure what your agenda is but you continue to make an irrational argument. I never said the other brands didn't have good engineering, those are your words. My point has always been that Porsche engineering is by no means inferior and in many ways superior, and is proven in the GT3. That the GT3 offers a more "pure" and enjoyable sports car experience, with better safety and reliability, is just a bonus.


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    trip:

     none of the cars you mentioned in your last post can hold a candle to the GT3. 

     

    Cars like Gallardos and AMs always have their flaws or leave the driver feeling a tad isolated. 

    This all came from me saying that the premise that Porsche has the engineering while the other companies have the passion may have been the case many years ago but Porsche can no longer hold that claim
     

    I say that these companies that due own the passion (PASSION is SOUND and LOOKS said so above) also now match or exceed on the engineering. Now I could have gone into things like paddle shifting and direct injection or other items but i did not.

    I simply said that certain cars that I would prefer to take to lunch made by other manufacturers not only look and sound better but also perform as well or better. I do not care about track characteristics in the least and said so. (that is irrelevant to a road car)

    For the engineering, I can only go by what I see as times on the same track and at the top gear course a newer GT3 has 8 seconds to make up on the lambo's.

    How much time does the GT3 have on the ZR-1 at the NBR? (Edit: GT3 7:42, ZR-1 7:28 I guess chevy holds a candle) And you can seriously say that 1 sec or a couple seconds on a near 8 minute run demonstrates superior engineering?

     

     

     

    closest thing I can come to on engineering apples to apples is this clip the RS version of the DB9 which can be purchased not the R version

     

     

     

    I gotta say companies such as Ferrari, Lambo, Aston, even Chevrolet have caught and or surpassed Porsche in engineering and make a more passionate product now. Hopefully like I said I above Piech can change that because these are road cars not track toys.

     

    How many GT3RS get sold in a year?

     

     

     

     

     


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    Racerx I really don't have the energy to refute your argument properly as I'm still at work but there are so many errors within it, its comical. You say the cars look or sound better (subjective) and perform as well or better (incorrect). A Ferrari Scuderia performs slightly (1 second on 'Ring) better, looks and sounds great perhaps better or worse depending on OPINION, costs double, less reliable, not as safe, equally  involving. Lambo 560, faster in a straight line, much slower on 'ring, horrible brakes (several reviews), costs $80-100k more, less reliable, less involving, not as safe, looks sounds great OPINION. AM V12 (or DBS, either one) costs $50k + more, slower in straight line despite more power, much slower on track, less reliable, less safe (did not originally pass U.S. safety tests), looks sounds good OPINION. Separate opinions from facts, try to refute my performance claims. Passion may be based soley on sound and looks to you, thats fine (poserish). Passion to me includes these attributes but is more weighted towards performance and driver satisfaction, ask pretty much anyone to find a fault in the GT3 in these categories. I really don't know why I am arguing with someone who believes the 928 is the pinacle of automotive acheivement, it is very frustrating but I am right, you are wrong, that AM is a GT1 car the 911 is in GT2(are you serious?) I am tired.


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    GT3 7:40, Scuderia 7:39 my point was the GT3 was only 1 second slower, this was meant to show superior engineering because a heavier car with less power (half as expensive, more reliable, etc...) was only 1 second slower over an 8 minute lap.


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    Isn't chevy superior at 7:25^^ - silly

    My point here now is to make a young guy take off his porsche GT shaded glasses and see reality. Not only do many cars "hold a candle" to the track oriented GT3, but these luxury oriented GT's and their corporate makers are the equal if not superior in engineering to Porsche.

    And the larger purpose is to show how Porsche spent too much time on the passion of money and let the brand go. The pinnacle being 1985.

    Now it was my OPINION that these cars looked and sounded better, they do, than any 911, you said they could not hold a candle, they can by any yardstick. Porsche is not even the master of the NBR anymore. If they could beat all other manufacturers by 30 seconds than you could make statements like you did.

     

    I did not even mention the Zonda's, Veyrons, Koeniggseggs or other dedicated track cars for their engineering. Does a Zonda look and sound better than a 911????? Nor did I mention Mclaren. Do you think the F1 had some nice engineering? Do you think it sounded better than a GT3? Do you think the new Mclaren will hold a candle to the GT3?????  But they are an Formula 1 company - geuss what - so WAS porsche.

     

    I could have shown the video from the other day with an M6 out accelerating a 997 turbo.

     

    I did not go into the ENGINEERING of Mercedes regarding safety or luxury with radar controlled cruise or the TV screens that show 2 different pictures. The HUD display in the corvette. The 105 foot braking distance of the heavy camaro.

     

    Nor did I go into the carbon fiber expertise of say Aston Martin who were making carbon bonded to aluminum crash zones back on the Vanquish. Correct me if I'm wrong but Porsche farmed out the construction of the CGT carbon tub to some company that made the enzo tub.

     The best you can say is that Porsche is competitive in engineering. It no longer leads like it did and in many areas it has been completely surpassed. They lag severely on exterior styling and sound - opinion yeah but shared by all but those wearing your shades. 

     

    Show me Porsche tech and engineering expertise that comes close to this (forget price - skill and engineering are skill and engineering) Carbon fiber structure and body panels, pure art and performance, not to mention sound and looks;

     

     

    carbon.jpeg

     

     

    You made a preposterous statement, stop digging. 


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    trip:

    Racerx I really don't have the energy to refute your argument properly as I'm still at work but there are so many errors within it, its comical. You say the cars look or sound better (subjective) and perform as well or better (incorrect). A Ferrari Scuderia performs slightly (1 second on 'Ring) better, looks and sounds great perhaps better or worse depending on OPINION, costs double, less reliable, not as safe, equally  involving. Lambo 560, faster in a straight line, much slower on 'ring, horrible brakes (several reviews), costs $80-100k more, less reliable, less involving, not as safe, looks sounds great OPINION. AM V12 (or DBS, either one) costs $50k + more, slower in straight line despite more power, much slower on track, less reliable, less safe (did not originally pass U.S. safety tests), looks sounds good OPINION. Separate opinions from facts, try to refute my performance claims. Passion may be based soley on sound and looks to you, thats fine (poserish). Passion to me includes these attributes but is more weighted towards performance and driver satisfaction, ask pretty much anyone to find a fault in the GT3 in these categories. I really don't know why I am arguing with someone who believes the 928 is the pinacle of automotive acheivement, it is very frustrating but I am right, you are wrong, that AM is a GT1 car the 911 is in GT2(are you serious?) I am tired.

    Trip,

    you´re fighting windmills here... Smiley


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    Ferdie:
    trip:

    Racerx I really don't have the energy to refute your argument properly as I'm still at work but there are so many errors within it, its comical. You say the cars look or sound better (subjective) and perform as well or better (incorrect). A Ferrari Scuderia performs slightly (1 second on 'Ring) better, looks and sounds great perhaps better or worse depending on OPINION, costs double, less reliable, not as safe, equally  involving. Lambo 560, faster in a straight line, much slower on 'ring, horrible brakes (several reviews), costs $80-100k more, less reliable, less involving, not as safe, looks sounds great OPINION. AM V12 (or DBS, either one) costs $50k + more, slower in straight line despite more power, much slower on track, less reliable, less safe (did not originally pass U.S. safety tests), looks sounds good OPINION. Separate opinions from facts, try to refute my performance claims. Passion may be based soley on sound and looks to you, thats fine (poserish). Passion to me includes these attributes but is more weighted towards performance and driver satisfaction, ask pretty much anyone to find a fault in the GT3 in these categories. I really don't know why I am arguing with someone who believes the 928 is the pinacle of automotive acheivement, it is very frustrating but I am right, you are wrong, that AM is a GT1 car the 911 is in GT2(are you serious?) I am tired.

    Trip,

    you´re fighting windmills here... Smiley

     

    Agreed.


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    reginos:

    Another line I liked is that "Porsche is more about engineering, Ferrari about passion" which is very correct IMO.
     

     

    I never understood that bs about passion...
     

    As if there is no passion at porsche. At ferrari, they are passionate about making "in your face" design cars. At Porsche, they are passionate about making a car that resembles it's heritage.

    As for me, I have a passion for 911's. Ferrari are just beautiful cars, but for me, no passion involved.
    -Joost-


    --

    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    I had a 928 and a 944 in the 80's - they were both crap compared to my subsequent 911's...

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    trip:
    racerx:

    Porsche does not make an exceptional sounding or looking car currently they try to fall back on the engineering tag. 

    You have obviously never heard or driven a GT3 or GT3 RS. 


    If you take money out of the picture, I can't take seriously anyone who says that a 911 looks and sounds better than - Vanquish, One-77, Vantage V12, Vantage V8, Lambo LP 670, Lambo LP 560, Ferrari 599, Ferrari 430, Ferrari Scud, Ferrari 612, Ferrari 458, Ferrari 360 CS, Ferrari 355, Ferrari 512TR, Maser GT, Zonda,  Merc SL 65 black, Mclaren F1, ZR-1, .........................

     

    That was my point, it still is. Trip said a GT3 was better looking and sounding, it isn't.

    Is a 911 a great performance bang for the buck compared to most of those - Yes.

     

     

     

    John H:

    I had a 928 and a 944 in the 80's - they were both crap compared to my subsequent 911's...

     


     I don't know what crap means here. No 911 sounds as good as my or many other 928's with custom exhausts. Never will. You will never get a great sound out of a 6 cylinder engine compared to a V8 or V12 and some V10's. Its numbers, nothing you can do about it.

     

    As for looks a 911 still looks like a 911 thats why it is an icon, remember. A little inflated but still basically the same. The 928 is one of the most beautiful cars ever built, it was better looking then and it is today. I have driven your model John and it is very nice but no where near as exciting.

     

    But I suppose thats all opinion, different strokes for different folks.

     

    If I were the only person who thought that way some of you would have a point but I am not. 

     

     


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    trip:

    I agree with the need for a luxury flagship ala Panamera Coupe/928 reinvisioned. That is not the debate however. Nor was the debate about which car to better pose in at dinner with the gf or clients. Most who can afford a GT3(RS) can also spare ~$30k for the greatest daily driver/client hauler around, the E39 M5. The argument originated from my objection to the statement that Porsche no longer engineers great cars or that they are no longer leaders in the performance/sports car game. If we are talking about proper sports car dynamics and driving pleasure none of the cars you mentioned in your last post can hold a candle to the GT3. Look at the recent Top Gear mag supercar comparison and their comments on the GT3 vs the exotics it is stacked against. Or ask a race car driver or engineer to drive afformentioned cars and choose a favorite for backroad bombing or track duty. My guess is 99% will choose the GT3 every time. Basically every owner or profesional review out there gushes about how the GT3 is so much more than the sum of its parts, how it is just so "right".

     

    Cars like Gallardos and AMs always have their flaws or leave the driver feeling a tad isolated. With the GT3, every component is honed for fast, fun, efficient, exciting, reliable, safe driving enjoyment, no other purpose. As for the comments on high speed stability/need for the wing. There is a difference between ability to hit 180+ or feeling stable at high triple digits to taking turns at 80+ mph, track performance, and high speed braking. This is where additional downforce is really felt/beneficial. The wing is for handling not looks and it does its job.

    +1

    Just want to add 1 thing.

    997.1 GT3 and GT3RS were almost identical cars; well not 100% but more than 90%.

    However, 997.2 GT3 and GT3RS are very different and I wouldn't not buy a GT3 RS unless I regularly track the car. 997.2 GT3 RS becomes a real track weapon.

    On the other hand, 997.2 911 GT3 is best sports car for track driving purposes that has ever been produced by any manafacturer if you consider the price, daily driveability, power and track times of this magnificant CAR.


    --

    ONUR

    09 Audi TTS Ibis

    07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: Clarkson's Turbo vs Ferrari comparison

    Joost:
    reginos:

    Another line I liked is that "Porsche is more about engineering, Ferrari about passion" which is very correct IMO.
     

     

    I never understood that bs about passion...
     

    As if there is no passion at porsche. At ferrari, they are passionate about making "in your face" design cars. At Porsche, they are passionate about making a car that resembles it's heritage.

    As for me, I have a passion for 911's. Ferrari are just beautiful cars, but for me, no passion involved.
    -Joost-

    Passion is strong emotion that leads someone to immensely desire something. Nothing cerebral about it.

    Ferraris (and other similar cars) are about passion in the sense that the ownership decision does not relate to the brain or the intellect at all and it is not reached using rational criteria.

    Think of it: Ferrari  is a car that costs a fortune to buy and even more to maintain properly, it is not the fastest, it is not practical or usable at all and it is not extremely safe under less than ideal conditions. It attracts attention often for the wrong reasons and carries a social stigma in many places. What is the excuse then for buying such a car? Passion!


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

     
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