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    POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    Thinking seriously about giving my boxey a work-over.
    Just found out that a new 987 here in DK will run me appr. 140.000Pounds (yes) with the extras I want, and that is simply lame. So for now I wanna make the most of my 986 Boxey instead.

    Recently I got in contact with a professional performance shop that specialize in Porsche, and I got a decent offer on a mild engine mod. Reworked exhaust, new (extra) ECU, airfilter and a couple of minor things - all legal, no cat run-around or anything. This will give me appr. 25 BHP more and more importantly a lot more torque accordng to the shops dynographs from previeous cars they have made. This will tun me appr. 1100Pounds. (1500$)

    The other option I am considering is getting a 997 engine.
    This would of course give me 3.6 litres and 325 BHP - but perhaps also a lot of problems if the new engine doesnt fit perfectly and maybe needs ongoing adjustments. Anyone tried this? Rami?
    I believe this will run me appr. 5-6000Pounds (appr. 9-10000$).

    My car has 90.000 km on the clock and runs perfectly.
    Please let me know what you think and PLEASE dont vote based on how cool you would think it would be that someone ELSE paid to have this done.
    I'm asking you what YOU would do, if this were your money and your choice.

    Thanks for helping out!

    Re: POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    Hey Dr Phil,

    I voted for the 997 engine, and I'd like to explain my reasoning.

    1- if you're going to do any modification, the most important thing would be that the difference be noticeable. It would be maddening to spend ANY amount of money on the car, endure the risk of it being damaged in areas you can't see yourself, possibly become less reliable after its electronics are monekyed with, etc, and not be able to INSTANTLY feel the difference.

    2- I realize your car is in perfect condition, but I still think a new powerplant is more likely to be running correctly in a few years than an upgraded older one.

    3- I know the 3.8L engine wasn't available when you bought the 986S, but is there any reason you couldn't use it? Or maybe the X51 powerplant? OK, now I'm just getting greedy, but you get where I'm going...

    4- Resale is a tough issue to predict, but with taxes the way they are where you live, the risk of a few thouasand euros on any upgrade is less than the guaranteed loss of a new car purchase. So forget about that aspect of the equation.

    Keep us posted!

    mcdelaug

    Re: POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    Quote:
    mcdelaug said:
    Hey Dr Phil,

    I voted for the 997 engine, and I'd like to explain my reasoning.

    1- if you're going to do any modification, the most important thing would be that the difference be noticeable. It would be maddening to spend ANY amount of money on the car, endure the risk of it being damaged in areas you can't see yourself, possibly become less reliable after its electronics are monekyed with, etc, and not be able to INSTANTLY feel the difference.

    2- I realize your car is in perfect condition, but I still think a new powerplant is more likely to be running correctly in a few years than an upgraded older one.

    3- I know the 3.8L engine wasn't available when you bought the 986S, but is there any reason you couldn't use it? Or maybe the X51 powerplant? OK, now I'm just getting greedy, but you get where I'm going...

    4- Resale is a tough issue to predict, but with taxes the way they are where you live, the risk of a few thouasand euros on any upgrade is less than the guaranteed loss of a new car purchase. So forget about that aspect of the equation.

    Keep us posted!

    mcdelaug



    Hey Mc. Thanks for your input.
    The reason why I'm not going for a 3.8 GT3 engine is the fact that here in Denmark, if you swap engine, the new engine cannot exceed a 25% powerincrease unless you wanna get taxed all over again. Custoims will simply re-evaluate the value of the car based on the new engine - and that will cost you $$$$$$$$$.
    The 997 325BHP engine delivers exactly +25% over the 986S engine and hence is perfect in every aspect.

    Youre right about the "getting more instant oompf!", but I'm also thinking "325 BHP versus 285 bhp...and it's 5 times more expensive.

    Would you buy a Boxster with a 911 engine?
    I'm not sure I would - it's a tough choice IMO.

    Re: POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    If it was me, I would leave your car exactly as Porsche made it. Reason : peace of mind and risk of a very, very expensive blow-up in the engine room department.

    Re: POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    I was going to vote for leaving it alone but ended up voting for the minor modification. Apparently, you're looking for a new thrill and the price seems cheap. After all, 25 horsepower from the factory would cost you as much as a whole engine.

    Re: POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    Quote:
    dreamcar said:
    If it was me, I would leave your car exactly as Porsche made it. Reason : peace of mind and risk of a very, very expensive blow-up in the engine room department.



    Well, Tim. I'm not so worried about an engine blow-up with any of these two options, since one is a mild (and reversible) tune-up., and the other means using another engine, which I believe means doing exactly what you advocate: Using a stock engine the way Porsche created it.
    Whether using a 997 engine in a Boxster will put excessive strain on the chassin etc is another story.
    I'm not that worried about the kaboom!, more about the Ka-ching!.
    Will swapping engine mean getting a car that is unsellable??

    Re: POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:Hey Mc. Thanks for your input.
    The reason why I'm not going for a 3.8 GT3 engine is the fact that here in Denmark, if you swap engine, the new engine cannot exceed a 25% powerincrease unless you wanna get taxed all over again. Custoims will simply re-evaluate the value of the car based on the new engine - and that will cost you $$$$$$$$$.
    The 997 325BHP engine delivers exactly +25% over the 986S engine and hence is perfect in every aspect.

    Youre right about the "getting more instant oompf!", but I'm also thinking "325 BHP versus 285 bhp...and it's 5 times more expensive.

    Would you buy a Boxster with a 911 engine?
    I'm not sure I would - it's a tough choice IMO.



    I think there's more than hp to consider. What's the torque difference between the two options?

    Consider this: the 997 engine would be modifiable in the same manner as your current engine (ECU, headers, etc). So you could potentially get another "boost" in a few years if you wanted to. And the tax authorities need not know about those minor tweaks, compared to the engine swap.

    Me, I would be willing to buy ANY mid engine Porsche that had performance equal to at least the 911S. I think once the warranty on my 987S expires, I'd consider putting a larger powerplant in my current car if Porsche hasn't offered me something along those lines already.

    mcdelaug

    Re: POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    Sorry for all the posts, I'll try to be more efficient. But you could get a good idea of what your current car with 285hp would be like by driving a 987S.

    And I seem to recall your having done just that...and not being overly impressed with the 280hp Boxster. Will I really have to search for that thread? Or am I confusing you with someone else Dr Phil?

    mcdelaug

    Re: POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    Quote:
    mcdelaug said:
    Sorry for all the posts, I'll try to be more efficient. But you could get a good idea of what your current car with 285hp would be like by driving a 987S.

    And I seem to recall your having done just that...and not being overly impressed with the 280hp Boxster. Will I really have to search for that thread? Or am I confusing you with someone else Dr Phil?

    mcdelaug



    Nope, youre right
    But in defense of the 987 the car I drove was an almost new 987S and I didnt+ wanna really floor it, hence I have no way of comparing max BHP and oompf.
    Having said that, I believe a very noticable torque increase would be worth the money. BHP alone arent very useful, so I dont care about that...more than BHOP and torque usually follow eachother..

    And no needd to excuse your many posts...all you need to do is use the "edit" button on your right. ou can edit your posts up to ine hour after last edit.

    Re: POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    Me = " None Of The Above " ,, off putting for the future buyer ..

    throt..

    Re: POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    Well, if torque is really what you're after, you are really left with more displacement or forced induction. ECUs and headers and other exhaust tweaks can make more peak hp, but often at the expense of torque. After all, hp sells, but (as you suggest) torque creates driving enjoyment.

    mcdelaug

    Re: POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    Dr Phill, If you think buying a new 987s is too expensive, then just tune your car.

    but if youre actually considering to buy a 987s, then dont touch your 986.

    i would sugest you buy a second hand 996 gt3 or turbo engine . that would run you around 10,000 euros . then all you got to do is make couple of exterior alterations (like Rami did) and youll have one of the sickest 986's around.

    basically it comes down to 2 choices
    1) buying a 987 or a new car
    2) keeping the 986 and tuning it


    there is no 3rd option as, exhaust,headers,intake...etc are not even worth considering as tune ups ( you should just do it anyway!!)

    I still havent decided on tuning my 987 (if it ever arrives, been postponed 3 times).

    Re: POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    I would just leave it alone for the reason that it would be harder to sell after modification.
    If it were my car, the most I would consider doing would be a mild tuning.
    Good luck on whatever you decide!

    Re: POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    I vote for the mild tuning. The 986S engine is detuned, so it can handle the bolt ons. The extra tweaking will give you what your looking for without spending too much.

    Re: POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Just found out that a new 987 here in DK will run me appr. 140.000Pounds (yes) with the extras I want, and that is simply lame.



    Aarrgh..that's legalised robbery ! I feel sorry for all you Porsche-nuts in Denmark who have not been born with a silver spoon in their mouths. I instantly will stop whining about the 20%-25% surplus we Germans have to pay for our P-cars compared to our US-friends
    Is there no get-around to avoid the prohibitive prices (for example: pro-forma residence in northern Germany with a car registration in Germany) ? At least you are an EU-citizen with the right to take a residence (at least as a second residence) everywhere in the EU.

    Quote:

    The other option I am considering is getting a 997 engine.
    This would of course give me 3.6 litres and 325 BHP - but perhaps also a lot of problems if the new engine doesnt fit perfectly and maybe needs ongoing adjustments.
    I believe this will run me appr. 5-6000Pounds (appr. 9-10000$).




    "There is no substitute" - not only true for Porsches but also for more displacement if you are looking for more HP PLUS better torque PLUS reliability.
    Therefore I would go for the 997 engine, but only if your Boxey will be a long term keeper for you (otherwise I would leave it like it is).
    If you would keep your baby let's say another 5-7 years the additional depreciation would not hit you as badly in terms of annual total expenses.
    However I am not so sure whether you could get this major mod for the price you have mentioned (10k $) from an experienced and reliable shop.
    Well-known Porsche tuner Ruf (you may search at ruf-automobile.de or ruf-autocentre.com) is offering an 3.600 S Version for the 986 S (MY 2003-2005)-main mod is to replace the 986-engine with the 3.6 litre carrera engine. Ruf should be a reliable shop due to their long-term history of modding Porsches (I have no personal experiences with them), BUT I think their policy is to offer the engine-mod only together with further expensive "options" (kind of adapting the Porsche marketing philosophy) like reinforced brake-system, suspension, exhaust etc....leading to a quite expensive "package". They do not indicate the price for a pure engine-mod at their website, but you'll find a copy of an article in excellence mag (issued Sept. 02) at their German website, indicating a price of 40 k $ for the entire package (seems to be the price for their most expensive package with the 3.8 litre engine and lot of further mods beyond the pure engine swap).

    So if you are looking for the "real deal" the engine-swap with a carrera-engine might do it, as you would get original Porsche technology. However in this case you really need an experienced shop with a goog "track-record" and experienced engineers having a clue about further mods (suspension etc.) needed to ensure a safe ride (a pure engine swap alone might leave you in a rocket without a launch pad

    Good luck with your decision

    Re: POLL: Tuning, new engine or none?

    a couple extra bucks on a engine rework has little downside potential. I've spent bucks trying to get an extra horse here and there (not boxster). When it works it always brings a smile to my face. If it doesn't come off as I'd hoped I simply get pissed off that I wasted some cash. Plus if you go to sell the car you can say you put in a couple minor perf mods and nobody will think much of it. A 911 motor in a boxster on the other hand is the other end of the spectrum. If it doesn't work out you'll be even more pissed and the resale value just won't be there.

     
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