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    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I think you are missing the point that it is like buying a motorcycle... but still wanting the pedals Smiley

    Do you want the 911 without electrical steering too? No adaptive dampers? No stability management? No torque vectoring? No active roll bars? No water cooled engine?

     

    i'll give you a very concrete reason why some of us "dinosaurs" prefer manual transmissions compared to PDK.  

    In the States, we have few opportunities to drive at the very limits of the car's performance envelop, and if we drive daily, most of us spend the time in traffic.  Any car is capable of handling traffic with relative comfort and little perceptible difference.  The higher the levels of automation, the less perceptible levels of differences are observable between a Porsche 991 or any other car.    A manual helps to bring the "Porscheness" back into the equation.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    CGX car nut:

    I think you are missing the point that it is like buying a motorcycle... but still wanting the pedals Smiley

    Do you want the 911 without electrical steering too? No adaptive dampers? No stability management? No torque vectoring? No active roll bars? No water cooled engine?

     

    i'll give you a very concrete reason why some of us "dinosaurs" prefer manual transmissions compared to PDK.  

    In the States, we have few opportunities to drive at the very limits of the car's performance envelop, and if we drive daily, most of us spend the time in traffic.  Any car is capable of handling traffic with relative comfort and little perceptible difference.  The higher the levels of automation, the less perceptible levels of differences are observable between a Porsche 991 or any other car.    A manual helps to bring the "Porscheness" back into the equation.

    I will second that. And to the original question, yes I would prefer a 991 without the electrical steering. Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    So back to the 991 TT, is the presentation going to the next week the 13th or not?


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    No, 918 will be presented on 13th.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    CGX car nut:

    i'll give you a very concrete reason why some of us "dinosaurs" prefer manual transmissions compared to PDK.  

    In the States, we have few opportunities to drive at the very limits of the car's performance envelop, and if we drive daily, most of us spend the time in traffic.  Any car is capable of handling traffic with relative comfort and little perceptible difference.  The higher the levels of automation, the less perceptible levels of differences are observable between a Porsche 991 or any other car.    A manual helps to bring the "Porscheness" back into the equation.

     

    This is the most sensible argument I have yet read for going for a manual in the US . I fully understand that . In traffic and slow driving , the PDK will make the car feel more as any other DD .

    But I am with Blueline about the fact that sports car manufacturer will drop the manual as it is not in tune anymore with the modern engines/mappings/fuel emissions regulations and performance .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    No, 918 will be presented on 13th.

    Isn't  it due only next year?Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Gnil:
    CGX car nut:

    i'll give you a very concrete reason why some of us "dinosaurs" prefer manual transmissions compared to PDK.  

    In the States, we have few opportunities to drive at the very limits of the car's performance envelop, and if we drive daily, most of us spend the time in traffic.  Any car is capable of handling traffic with relative comfort and little perceptible difference.  The higher the levels of automation, the less perceptible levels of differences are observable between a Porsche 991 or any other car.    A manual helps to bring the "Porscheness" back into the equation.

     

    This is the most sensible argument I have yet read for going for a manual in the US . I fully understand that . In traffic and slow driving , the PDK will make the car feel more as any other DD .

    If someone wants manual to get a kind of mechanical feel is nose to bumper, snail pace city traffic, he'd better get a manual VW Polo or a small Renault and save lots of money. Why a Porsche? Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    reginos:
    Gnil:
    CGX car nut:

    i'll give you a very concrete reason why some of us "dinosaurs" prefer manual transmissions compared to PDK.  

    In the States, we have few opportunities to drive at the very limits of the car's performance envelop, and if we drive daily, most of us spend the time in traffic.  Any car is capable of handling traffic with relative comfort and little perceptible difference.  The higher the levels of automation, the less perceptible levels of differences are observable between a Porsche 991 or any other car.    A manual helps to bring the "Porscheness" back into the equation.

     

    This is the most sensible argument I have yet read for going for a manual in the US . I fully understand that . In traffic and slow driving , the PDK will make the car feel more as any other DD .

    If someone wants manual to get a kind of mechanical feel is nose to bumper, snail pace city traffic, he'd better get a manual VW Polo or a small Renault and save lots of money. Why a Porsche? Smiley


    Well, I'd say it depends on the model. If I bought a new 991, I would opt for PDK. But if I was buying a new Boxster/S, I guess I would want manual in this one. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    +1  Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Porsche will make Three  991 body structures............. I don't think so.

    Revvv Smiley Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Well, all this talk about gearboxes will be moot when 992's will get a PCVT - Porsche continuously variable transmission... or maybe they are all electric with no engines anymore anyway

    How would you like that, Mr Modern Man?

    I used to be fine with 4 gears in a car. then 5 with 1 overdrive..Nowadays half of them have 8 gears.. where does it end?

    March of progress sounds great, but it should be in balance with what makes us human - pleasure in the small irrrelevant things.

    Why dont we ban eating delicious food. am sure we can eventually package all the essential nutrients in a pill .. Less time reqd. Taste is overrated, after all.

    Meeting people face to face.. How about we send text messages instead of walking a block... oh hang on we do that already........

    Excuse my rant!!


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    HeavyMetalThunder:

    Well, all this talk about gearboxes will be moot when 992's will get a PCVT - Porsche continuously variable transmission... or maybe they are all electric with no engines anymore anyway

    How would you like that, Mr Modern Man?

    I used to be fine with 4 gears in a car. then 5 with 1 overdrive..Nowadays half of them have 8 gears.. where does it end?

    March of progress sounds great, but it should be in balance with what makes us human - pleasure in the small irrrelevant things.

    Why dont we ban eating delicious food. am sure we can eventually package all the essential nutrients in a pill .. Less time reqd. Taste is overrated, after all.

    Meeting people face to face.. How about we send text messages instead of walking a block... oh hang on we do that already........

    Excuse my rant!!

    It is weekend bro, relax Smiley

    This manual gearbox discussion sure stirs up emotions.


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    HeavyMetalThunder:

    Well, all this talk about gearboxes will be moot when 992's will get a PCVT - Porsche continuously variable transmission...

    I' m afraid that could well be the future... Gearbox manufacturers are working on that as a replacement of double clutch .


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    ....and then when it is all "electric", you don't need a transmission at all


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Face it. It Porsche started downhill with power brakes and steering. That led to electric motors replacing proper window cranks and gained speed when those delightful delicate wire rods that moved the heater setting and vent positions became fly by wire.   


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Gnil:
    HeavyMetalThunder:

    Well, all this talk about gearboxes will be moot when 992's will get a PCVT - Porsche continuously variable transmission...

    I' m afraid that could well be the future... Gearbox manufacturers are working on that as a replacement of double clutch .

    CVT has been around for years. Toyota and Honda makes cars with them.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    chuckb:

    Face it. It Porsche started downhill with power brakes and steering. That led to electric motors replacing proper window cranks and gained speed when those delightful delicate wire rods that moved the heater setting and vent positions became fly by wire.   

    ...and Porsche would not be where they are if they had not evolved Smiley They can't keep building new iterations of the 964 with simply a modern body shell. The world has moved on and so has Porsche, thankfully. Otherwise they would have declared bankruptcy by now.


    --

    Porsche 997 Carrera S in Carrara White with black leather interior. PASM-Sport Suspension (-20 mm), PSE.

    Audi S5 cabrio in Ibis White with black leather interior.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    DavidSF:

    CVT has been around for years. Toyota and Honda makes cars with them.

    A Porsche 992 with the same transmission as SWMBO's Honda Jazz. Hmmmm. Smiley

    The hardcore types could have the same sporty 6 speed manual that is fitted to my humble and very reliable Clockwork Rat. Smiley

    the next generation Panamera and Cayenne could be a badge engineered Lexus.....but Porsche customer service would need a big kick up the backside to get even close to Toyota /Lexus standards though.


    --

    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I bought new issue of Auto Bild on Friday and read the article about new 991 Turbo. Article claims that new 991 Turbo will feature 4WS system. I was schocked and immediately emailed my P source to ask about it.

    Few minutes ago I got email in which he wrote:"....yes, new 991TT will be equiped with new revolutionary 4ws(4 wheel steering)....991TT will get even wider body then 991C4..." You can expect something like 1877mm in width.

    My feelings? I am very, very impressed with new 991 Carrera models, BUT too much new tech can be little bit too much sometimes... 4WS?! WTF?


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Just curious--what is the matter with four wheel steering?


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    918 gets it for sure.

    Rear wheels turn in opposite direction at low speeds for better turn in and same direction at high speed for better stability. I think it's pretty cool. But I see what Kreso means, definitely less pure.

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Wonderbar:

    Just curious--what is the matter with four wheel steering?

    Nothing - worked fine on the 1990's Honda Prelude..................Smiley4ws_2.jpg

    --

    Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. - Albert Einstein

    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Toyota Yaris D4D  "Clockwork Rat"


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    My feelings? I am very, very impressed with new 991 Carrera models, BUT too much new tech can be little bit too much sometimes... 4WS?! WTF?

    I thought by 2020 cars are supposed to drive themselves Smiley


    --
    Happy Driving

    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    My feelings? I am very, very impressed with new 991 Carrera models, BUT too much new tech can be little bit too much sometimes... 4WS?! WTF?


    Didn´t we have a similar discussion about PDCC? How come you are convinced about the one and not so much about the other?

    Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    4WS is an interesting issue.

    Will be there technical difference between Turbo and Turbo S?


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Ron (Houston):
    I thought by 2020 cars are supposed to drive themselves Smiley

    And, that sir, is the problem I have with the latest crop of sports cars; there's much more "car' than "sports" in them.  There's no more challenge and skill involved in driving the current cars and little, other than the badge and driving position, differentiate the 991 from the vast majority of fast automobiles.  


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Porsche isn't about trying to Challenge the driver to get themself killed on the track or building a car for SKilled racer to drive on the track........  Been "sporty" doesn't mean we have to kill ourself in attempt to try to go faster.  I really don't understand what is the matter for people who doesn't like these enhance tech. support the errors we might cause, further make us go faster and more confident on the track??  I had been driving my 991S for awhile now, and with PDCC it helps me go faster on the corner! and I am more confident!  I think we should learn how to adapt to become better.... 

    Any 991 owners with complains?  Those who complains should buy the car than make the judgement....  test drive means nothing...... 


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Ferdie:
    KresoF1:

    My feelings? I am very, very impressed with new 991 Carrera models, BUT too much new tech can be little bit too much sometimes... 4WS?! WTF?


    Didn´t we have a similar discussion about PDCC? How come you are convinced about the one and not so much about the other?

    Smiley

    Yes, we did. I drove 991S with PDCC/-20mm and 991 with PASM/-20mm and become fully aware of PDCC advantages. So, I am open minded for all new tech stuff if that stuff works for my benefite.

    Just... 4WS... Remember Mitsubishi 3000GT? It was equiped with 4WS and it worked pretty decent. But, 3000GT had all four tires in same size. New 991 Turbo will probably have 315 in the rear and I am really thinking how will that 4WS work?Smiley Of course that new 991 Turbo will be much faster around the Ring then old 997.2 Turbo S. my source told me low 7.3Xmin for sure(with street tires a la the ones on 991CS and 991C4S models). My question is how much old Porsche feeling will remain in new 991 Turbo. In 991CS(with PDCC/-20mm) you are still fully aware from feeling point of view that you are driving 911 after all.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I think that the classical 911 feel does not contribute to very fast times, especilaly in the hands of non-professional drivers. Not to mention that 911s until even the 996 were potentially dangerous in their handling. Since the marketing emphasis is on NBR times etc new tech has to be added to the disappointment of purists. 

    The 4ws is as artificial as PDCC. We cannot judge a possible Porsche 4ws on the basis of a Honda or a Mitsubishi of 15 years ago.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    4WS ? - guess my time to buy older classics-only has started from 991 onwards...


     
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