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    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Isn't everyone getting tired of this crap? The 997 TT is only alllowed to be driven in snow and ice by a very pro Porsche biased auto reviewer and now the Ring time is driven in bad weather.

    When does the brain catch up with the heart and say ENOUGH! The way you guy's are led around with a ring in your nose by Porsche is really nauseating.

    WAKE UP!



    Nick, enough with the "world conspiracy theories" ... its kind of difficult to "move" the N'ring to a more convenient location for you. The Turbo comes out know and they lapped the ring in the conditions they had. The Turbos do not hide from the weather unlike your spider
    Just wait until spring comes and you will see testing in good weather as well of course I have a feeling that won't satisfy you either



    Call it the Ferrari F430 Spider and lap the Ring in 7:45 and it will satisfy him

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    I could give a rat ass regarding Ring time. If my Spider did it in 8:15 it would not matter to me. But what I find so damn irritating is this penchant to have cars reviewed only in venues which give Porsche a reason to say "it could be even better IF". My God are ther Porsche owners out there who would ask "if the conditions are not right don't test! We want to know what the car can do and not if only's."

    Brunner, you asked sometime ago whether you can tune out certain posters. I would appreciate it if you would learn how because as a gentleman and one who does not want to lower the level of discourse on this board, I have ignored your insolent and disrespectful remarks. As a gentlemen, I will ask you not to respond to my posts. If you continue with your infantile remarks, I will respond in kind. Just squirrel your way back into the rat hole you came out of and ignored me me as you had previously promised.

    BTW I note you have treated others on the board in the same manner and hopefully a moderator will take notice.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Thanks for the great report. The 997TT marketing compaign is in full selling mode. They even have RC out there compaigning by claiming the 7:49 time was done in bad weather. Here is something else to consider. It could be Von Saurma or W. Rorhl didn't have a bowel movement before the epic run and thus was heavier during the run.



    Nick, I always (almost) enjoyed your posts, I find them funny and lighthearted but know I am curious & I want to understand your attittude towards Porsche. Why do you hate Porsche so much? Please understand that my question is serious and that I am not trying to be sarcastic.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Heh, it worked.
    I feel kinda' bad about having to assume the role of the blunt jerk, but since that's the only way to get to you, asta e.

    Give that hypocrisy a rest, nick. You're singlehandedly responsible for 90% of the board's decrease in quality. As you can clearly see, the people don't like you and your arrogant stubbornness, yet you carry on unfazed.
    If the mods decide to ban me for my reaction to your (and other's) BS, then fine, I'll respect their decision.

    These days rennteam goes to a similar process flat-6 did back in the days. Carlos can attest to that. When we (myself and and two more guys) appointed moderators we contained the damage, but it was too late, and now flat-6 is practically dead.
    I'd be really sad to see the same thing happening to rennteam, but if the mods don't step in NOW, this downward spiral will lead to the same fate.
    And if you think banning me will magically solve the problems, then by all means, do it, but I'm reserving the right to a bitter smile...

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen -- REPORT

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    7:49 Turbo*



    If that's correct, I find it a bit disappointing too. Well, the original 996 Turbo was rated at 7:56. 6 years ago. With 'only' 420 HP, no VTG, no PASM, 'old' 4wd-system, smaller brakes, etc. With all the new goodies, I'd have expected a slightly faster 997TT.

    What's the X50/X73 time? No official figure, but something around 7:52 or even slightly less seems probable.

    The first gen GT2 was given at 7:46 despite having less power and less torque (ok, and less weight) than the 997TT.

    So... 7:49 is definitely faster than the 1st gen 996TT, but not quite as fast as the old GT2. Looks almost too politically correct...

    --p

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen -- REPORT

    The 7:49 time appears suspect. Porsche should provide more information about the car, options and conditions. In fact, they should have hired a independent testing organization. 7:49 will remain a pathetic and meaningless number until specifics are given.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Heh, it worked.
    I feel kinda' bad about having to assume the role of the blunt jerk, but since that's the only way to get to you, asta e.

    Give that hypocrisy a rest, nick. You're singlehandedly responsible for 90% of the board's decrease in quality. As you can clearly see, the people don't like you and your arrogant stubbornness, yet you carry on unfazed.
    If the mods decide to ban me for my reaction to your (and other's) BS, then fine, I'll respect their decision.

    These days rennteam goes to a similar process flat-6 did back in the days. Carlos can attest to that. When we (myself and and two more guys) appointed moderators we contained the damage, but it was too late, and now flat-6 is practically dead.
    I'd be really sad to see the same thing happening to rennteam, but if the mods don't step in NOW, this downward spiral will lead to the same fate.
    And if you think banning me will magically solve the problems, then by all means, do it, but I'm reserving the right to a bitter smile...



    Enjoy falling on your own sword do you?

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen -- REPORT

    It's a 'Ring time everyone, don't go crazy splitting hairs. I am certain that a 997 of some spec did a 'Ring time of 7:49 and that is pretty fast. Full stop.

    Actually comparing times and making sweeping conclusions does not make sense. The combination of variables can easily add up to many seconds of time differential. Let's see, we have:

    Driver
    Rolling start/dead start
    Air temperature
    Track temperature
    Tires
    Options
    Humidity
    Wind
    Actual circuit (I understand there are several slightly different options near the start/finish area)

    If and ONLY if you can control ALL of those variables (and maybe some others I haven't thought of yet), then you can take a 2 or 3 sec time difference to the bank. Given the mix of variables, I would be hesitant to read a lot into even a 10 sec difference unless most of these variables were confirmed and known to be the same during the tests.

    What the 'Ring times do tell us is that some cars (Z06, Gallardo 997 TT) are REALLY fast an pretty close to each other. That's about it in my book.

    The "Porsche conspiracy" stories are pretty lame too IMO.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Quote:
    yarub1 said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Thanks for the great report. The 997TT marketing compaign is in full selling mode. They even have RC out there compaigning by claiming the 7:49 time was done in bad weather. Here is something else to consider. It could be Von Saurma or W. Rorhl didn't have a bowel movement before the epic run and thus was heavier during the run.



    Nick, I always (almost) enjoyed your posts, I find them funny and lighthearted but know I am curious & I want to understand your attittude towards Porsche. Why do you hate Porsche so much? Please understand that my question is serious and that I am not trying to be sarcastic.



    That is a fair question. I do not dislike the car. I believe it is a terrific performing car with, for the most part, good dependability.

    What I dislike about Porsche is their avarice which has as a sole intent to extract every last nickel out of a very dedicated and loyal customer base.

    Driving a Porsche a few years ago was something very very special. Owners were considered well informed with exclusive taste and very successful. In return, Porche provided them with a measure of privilege and fostered a partnership in maintaining a certain "chicness".

    Look at what they give you today. Stripped down look alike models with an option list cost to break the bank. A corporate philosphy of "make them pay and give nothing in return. Sell to everyone and our past loyal customers can go and pound sand. We are not in the business to please them but to sell as many cars and models as we can regardless of plummeting resale values. THis is all abour money and we intend to take as much from you as we can."

    In a word, the company is not customer focused but shareholder focused. I have no doubt they will rue the day they set out on this course. So far they have done well but the seeds of destruction have been planted.

    I carry on this "jihad" because I believe Porsche has time to change and remake itself not like they were in the late eighties but more of a company which would forego additional profits to maintain the integrity of what the company once was... many many years ago.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    yarub1 said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Thanks for the great report. The 997TT marketing compaign is in full selling mode. They even have RC out there compaigning by claiming the 7:49 time was done in bad weather. Here is something else to consider. It could be Von Saurma or W. Rorhl didn't have a bowel movement before the epic run and thus was heavier during the run.



    Nick, I always (almost) enjoyed your posts, I find them funny and lighthearted but know I am curious & I want to understand your attittude towards Porsche. Why do you hate Porsche so much? Please understand that my question is serious and that I am not trying to be sarcastic.



    That is a fair question. I do not dislike the car. I believe it is a terrific performing car with, for the most part, good dependability.

    What I dislike about Porsche is their avarice which has as a sole intent to extract every last nickel out of a very dedicated and loyal customer base.

    Driving a Porsche a few years ago was something very very special. Owners were considered well informed with exclusive taste and very successful. In return, Porche provided them with a measure of privilege and fostered a partnership in maintaining a certain "chicness".

    Look at what they give you today. Stripped down look alike models with an option list cost to break the bank. A corporate philosphy of "make them pay and give nothing in return. Sell to everyone and our past loyal customers can go and pound sand. We are not in the business to please them but to sell as many cars and models as we can regardless of plummeting resale values. THis is all abour money and we intend to take as much from you as we can."

    In a word, the company is not customer focused but shareholder focused. I have no doubt they will rue the day they set out on this course. So far they have done well but the seeds of destruction have been planted.

    I carry on this "jihad" because I believe Porsche has time to change and remake itself not like they were in the late eighties but more of a company which would forego additional profits to maintain the integrity of what the company once was... many many years ago.



    Wise words. I'd still prefer a 997TT to an F430, but I agree with you 100%.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    In most countries a Porsche is NOT something for the upper middle class. Import duties, taxes on engine size and VAT
    make it a new car purchase only for the truly rich. So content, options prices and general "Porscheness" reflect that.

    As far as whats good and whats bad on the new ones and comparing that with Porsches of past years, there is no comparison. Performance is way up but overall build quality is way down. Some of that is due to crash regs, some of it is from EU recycling laws, some from manufacturing costs savings and some from trying to make a 40 year old shape and size work with modern equipment levels.

    Forget trying to save the company from itself. They have other plans.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I carry on this "jihad" because I believe Porsche has time to change and remake itself not like they were in the late eighties but more of a company which would forego additional profits to maintain the integrity of what the company once was... many many years ago.



    If only Porsche had a few employees like you, just to keep them on the straight and narrow.

    Instead of provacteur, your Rennteam title should be "keeper of integrity"

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Nick you woke up grumpy this morning. Come on brush them shoulders off kid. Although I mostly disagree with you, I personally enjoy your views about Porsche.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    yarub1 said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Thanks for the great report. The 997TT marketing compaign is in full selling mode. They even have RC out there compaigning by claiming the 7:49 time was done in bad weather. Here is something else to consider. It could be Von Saurma or W. Rorhl didn't have a bowel movement before the epic run and thus was heavier during the run.



    Nick, I always (almost) enjoyed your posts, I find them funny and lighthearted but know I am curious & I want to understand your attittude towards Porsche. Why do you hate Porsche so much? Please understand that my question is serious and that I am not trying to be sarcastic.



    That is a fair question. I do not dislike the car. I believe it is a terrific performing car with, for the most part, good dependability.

    What I dislike about Porsche is their avarice which has as a sole intent to extract every last nickel out of a very dedicated and loyal customer base.

    Driving a Porsche a few years ago was something very very special. Owners were considered well informed with exclusive taste and very successful. In return, Porche provided them with a measure of privilege and fostered a partnership in maintaining a certain "chicness".

    Look at what they give you today. Stripped down look alike models with an option list cost to break the bank. A corporate philosphy of "make them pay and give nothing in return. Sell to everyone and our past loyal customers can go and pound sand. We are not in the business to please them but to sell as many cars and models as we can regardless of plummeting resale values. THis is all abour money and we intend to take as much from you as we can."

    In a word, the company is not customer focused but shareholder focused. I have no doubt they will rue the day they set out on this course. So far they have done well but the seeds of destruction have been planted.

    I carry on this "jihad" because I believe Porsche has time to change and remake itself not like they were in the late eighties but more of a company which would forego additional profits to maintain the integrity of what the company once was... many many years ago.



    So from your response I deduct, please correct me if I am wrong, that your "crusade" is against Porsche business practice and not its products. In this case I believe that your behaviour is out of love and concern for the future and well being of the company. I totaly agree with you that porsche is currently milking its customer to a level that is, franckly, shamefull and I wish they could find a fair balance between profit (Lets not forget that it is a company not the Salvation Army and as such it needs to make a profit) and respect for its customers by providing value and the best product available, specialy if we consider the prices that they are charging for their cars.
    If my above deduction is correct, we defenetly need more Porsche fans like you to keep them focus and on the right track. Carry on the good work and I will continue reading and enjoying your posts.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Reslut will be that th etrue porsche lovers will onlhy buy second hand cand only the exorbitantly rich will buy new cars... Too bad.
    -Joost-

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Quote:
    That is a fair question. I do not dislike the car. I believe it is a terrific performing car with, for the most part, good dependability.

    What I dislike about Porsche is their avarice which has as a sole intent to extract every last nickel out of a very dedicated and loyal customer base.

    Driving a Porsche a few years ago was something very very special. Owners were considered well informed with exclusive taste and very successful. In return, Porche provided them with a measure of privilege and fostered a partnership in maintaining a certain "chicness".

    Look at what they give you today. Stripped down look alike models with an option list cost to break the bank. A corporate philosphy of "make them pay and give nothing in return. Sell to everyone and our past loyal customers can go and pound sand. We are not in the business to please them but to sell as many cars and models as we can regardless of plummeting resale values. THis is all abour money and we intend to take as much from you as we can."

    In a word, the company is not customer focused but shareholder focused. I have no doubt they will rue the day they set out on this course. So far they have done well but the seeds of destruction have been planted.

    I carry on this "jihad" because I believe Porsche has time to change and remake itself not like they were in the late eighties but more of a company which would forego additional profits to maintain the integrity of what the company once was... many many years ago.




    we should make this sticky as "Please read this BEFORE reading any nberry-posting"

    but now let's keep my event-thread free of this. it's going way off topic. there are enough threads around related to ringtime or porsche in general. i can't stand this discussion any more.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    ZZ your new model car looks beautiful in red, your a lucky man.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    On this one I have to say Nick is 100% spot on. Look at the attitude of certain Porsche dealers in the UK and their treatment of long term customers and you can see exactly what Nick is talking about. Anybody who has considered themselves a loyal and dedicated long term customer has been deluding themselves. Lamborghini are much more welcoming and accomodating, as are Ferrari. At least from my experience. The 911 Turbo is a nice car, but I dont want one because I will have to deal with dealership staff who couldnt give a ---- about their customers.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    i dont agree brunner , i think most of the threads without nick would be boring ,he has such an ability to spice them up very politely

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen


    I always appreciate Nick's input even if I don't always agree with him.

    It is always good to have a different prospective on a topic.

    Rennteam would not be the same without him.

    Just my 2 cent

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Shut up dude, you're boring.



    brunner, i've warned you before -- you are the one who is getting personal and insultig. nick is quite battlesome, but always in a civilized manner.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen -- REPORT

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    The 7:49 time appears suspect. Porsche should provide more information about the car, options and conditions. In fact, they should have hired a independent testing organization. 7:49 will remain a pathetic and meaningless number until specifics are given.



    To be honest, the fact that there is NO official information on the NBR time yet (at least I have not seen anything in the official press releases) should be a warning.

    The 997TT might be an underperformer on the NBR

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Driving a Porsche a few years ago was something very very special. Owners were considered well informed with exclusive taste and very successful.



    Do you really care that much what other people think of you? In my view you buy cars based on the wrong motives

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen -- REPORT

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    The 997TT might be an underperformer on the NBR


    It's only March. I think the weather won't be warm and dry enough for a fast time for another month or two...

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    I have had exactly the opposite experience. On every occasion, at my dealer, and with very top line Porsche personnel, I have been treated with respect and rather amazing accessibility. During the recent press days in Geneva, members of the management board and other longtime high level Porsche personnel gave me lengthy interviews and were extremely cordial. And my dealer has never charged me a deposit for a car, nor gone beyond MSRP. I honestly--after over forty years of owning Porsches and many other high performance cars--still feel very much part of the Porsche "family" as corny as that may sound.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    You guys are lucky that I'm in the US right now and my laptop has a hardware problem, shutting off suddenly after some keyboard entries. Only one thing to be said: wait for the SPORT AUTO test. To Nick: I wonder why you don't buy a Z06??? Funny. Sorry, Nick but your posts really started to be, let me say it through the "flower": plain stupid. You better enjoy driving your car instead of torturing us with your posts, honestly.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Quote:
    Wonderbar said:
    I have had exactly the opposite experience. On every occasion, at my dealer, and with very top line Porsche personnel, I have been treated with respect and rather amazing accessibility. During the recent press days in Geneva, members of the management board and other longtime high level Porsche personnel gave me lengthy interviews and were extremely cordial. And my dealer has never charged me a deposit for a car, nor gone beyond MSRP. I honestly--after over forty years of owning Porsches and many other high performance cars--still feel very much part of the Porsche "family" as corny as that may sound.



    I am afraid that cgt's experience is not atypical for UK OPCs

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen


    Buying and Driving a Porsche is a personal experience and I believe it is very difficult to draw a general rule.

    So far my experience has been excellent ...

    My first encounter with a Porsche sales person was many years ago in Paris. I was completely broke and was driving a banger ... The guy was very nice, he spent time with me explaining me many things .... I asked for a brochure and apologized that I will not a potential buyer any time soon .... He told me, no problem and added I will be driving a Porsche sooner than I think ....

    Then few years later, when I was fully ready to really treat myself, I went to Braman (West Palm Beach, FL) and the sales guy was an absolute arrogant AssXXXle. I was so disappointed that I went to Champion (Pompano Beach, FL) and I met Larry a great guy, who has now become a friend of mine ... Everytime I go to Florida I make sure I swing by Champion to see Larry...

    My lastest experience was at the Porsche Levallois Center in Paris and the sales guy was extremely nice ....

    Bottom line much more very enjoyable experiences than bad ones .... but here again impossible to draw a general conclusion ...because after all, we are all humans.

    PS : Driving my Porsche is still for me the best medecine .... when I'm down or depressed driving the car even just around the block is such a pleasurable experience that I don't see myself NOT driving a Porsche.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Quote:
    EricAlain said:

    Buying and Driving a Porsche is a personal experience and I believe it is very difficult to draw a general rule.

    So far my experience has been excellent ...

    My first encounter with a Porsche sales person was many years ago in Paris. I was completely broke and was driving a banger ... The guy was very nice, he spent time with me explaining me many things .... I asked for a brochure and apologized that I will not a potential buyer any time soon .... He told me, no problem and added I will be driving a Porsche sooner than I think ....

    Then few years later, when I was fully ready to really treat myself, I went to Braman (West Palm Beach, FL) and the sales guy was an absolute arrogant AssXXXle. I was so disappointed that I went to Champion (Pompano Beach, FL) and I met Larry a great guy, who has now become a friend of mine ... Everytime I go to Florida I make sure I swing by Champion to see Larry...

    My lastest experience was at the Porsche Levallois Center in Paris and the sales guy was extremely nice ....

    Bottom line much more very enjoyable experiences than bad ones .... but here again impossible to draw a general conclusion ...because after all, we are all humans.

    PS : Driving my Porsche is still for me the best medecine .... when I'm down or depressed driving the car even just around the block is such a pleasurable experience that I don't see myself NOT driving a Porsche.



    I agree.

    I have had nothing but excellent rapport with my local Porsche dealership.

    And I use my 996TTS as "tonic," especially after a hard day at work. Indeed, last night, I didn't finish my work day until 9:00pm, but I was able to jump into my car and blast around town for 20 minutes with some nice accelerations onto the highway at full throttle-sure, having 600HP to play with helped out! It relaxed me nicely after I returned home.

    Re: "Von Null auf Turbo" in Zuffenhausen

    Quote:
    EricAlain said:



    PS : Driving my Porsche is still for me the best medecine .... when I'm down or depressed driving the car even just around the block is such a pleasurable experience that I don't see myself NOT driving a Porsche.



    Driving a Porsche or another Sportscar in Paris early in the morning a sunny Sunday

     
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