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    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    we need to resurrect THE STIG.

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    I really am trying to understand why some Porschephiles are so quick to accept whatever Porsche puts out and yet dismisses the products of other manufacturers... My feeling is that they don't understand HOW MUCH BETTER the Porsche brand and product would become if we banded together to say... "Hey Porsche... we want you to be on top... stop trying to sell as many cars as BMW and get back to what you do best... building world-class sports cars, not compromised GTs."

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Carlos, I have to correct you little bit...
    Lamborghini Gallardo times achived in Supertest(12/2003) were-Hockenheim: 1.11,8min(excellent time!)
    -Nordschleife: 7.52min(not 7.50min)
    Gallardo was with optional sport setup(different suspension and faster steering-price in Germany 1700Euro).

    Ferrari F430F1 Supertest 01/2006
    Hockenheim: 1.12,7min
    Nordchleife: 7.55min
    F430 were with ceramic brakes and Pirell Corsa's.

    Porsche 997S(PCCB,-20mm/LSD) Supertest 05/2005
    Hockenheim: 1.14,3min
    Nordchleife: 8.05min
    Note: for the same setup Porsche claimed time around 8.00min in hands of W.Rohrl!

    Is 7.49min realistic? Manual(with LSD) or TIP? Driver-W.Rohrl? If this time is set by W.Rohrl then Sport Auto Supertest time achived by Horst von Saurma will not be that good... von Saurma times around Ring were allways little bit slower then factory Porsche times achived by W.Rohrl.
    This is the reason why IMO Sport Auto Supertest is the only relatively objective car review on(and not only on) race track.

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    please stop this stupid discussion!

    do you know the time differences resulting from using different tyres on same cars?

    a pirelli corsa tyre is around 1s slower in hockenheim then a michelin pilot sport cup. and the pirelli ist ~5s slower on the nuerburgring. not to mention street legal tyres. their times vary even more.

    if you want to compare two cars, you need the same driver, same tyres, same weather, temperature, clear racetrack and idealy the same time.

    btw. did you know, that there are at least 3 different versions of pirelli corsas available?

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    I really am trying to understand why some Porschephiles are so quick to accept whatever Porsche puts out and yet dismisses the products of other manufacturers... My feeling is that they don't understand HOW MUCH BETTER the Porsche brand and product would become if we banded together to say... "Hey Porsche... we want you to be on top... stop trying to sell as many cars as BMW and get back to what you do best... building world-class sports cars, not compromised GTs."



    As far as I'm concerned, we don't. Porsche has a lot of work to do to become as respectable to enthusiasts as it had been in years passed. However, we do respond to statements glorifying the Corvette and how it smokes the 997TT, etc. I like the Vette and would probably own one, if I lived in a drier climate (aside from the side profile, I think the car looks the part). That doesn't mean I'll participate in unfounded Porsche bashing, though.

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    If the time is accurate, it is disappointing. However, how can you say that it is not much better than a 911S?. It's a great deal better than the S.
    It takes A LOT to gain a few seconds.

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Quote:
    devo said:
    If the time is accurate, it is disappointing. However, how can you say that it is not much better than a 911S?. It's a great deal better than the S.
    It takes A LOT to gain a few seconds.



    If you ask me, the time is great, if it has been achieved by Von Saurma and not by Röhrl. The 7:52 Gallardo time was done with Corsas if I'm not mistaken, so was ther 7:55 time by the F430. The Corvette also IMO won't break 7:50 with a truly stock car, a standing start and a non-racecar driver. I could be wrong though.

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    devo said:
    If the time is accurate, it is disappointing. However, how can you say that it is not much better than a 911S?. It's a great deal better than the S.
    It takes A LOT to gain a few seconds.



    If you ask me, the time is great, if it has been achieved by Von Saurma and not by Röhrl. The 7:52 Gallardo time was done with Corsas if I'm not mistaken, so was ther 7:55 time by the F430. The Corvette also IMO won't break 7:50 with a truly stock car, a standing start and a non-racecar driver. I could be wrong though.



    Crash, I agree that 7:49 looks good compared to the Gallardo and F430 time. However, if you consider that the GT2 Mk1 already did 7:46...

    I think that 7:49 would be very disappointing given 480hp, VTG, a new 4WD system, PCCB, latest tire technology, etc. etc.

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    F430 7:55 time is bougus, It can go way faster then that, that was sandbaging by the SportAuto

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    devo said:
    If the time is accurate, it is disappointing. However, how can you say that it is not much better than a 911S?. It's a great deal better than the S.
    It takes A LOT to gain a few seconds.



    If you ask me, the time is great, if it has been achieved by Von Saurma and not by Röhrl. The 7:52 Gallardo time was done with Corsas if I'm not mistaken, so was ther 7:55 time by the F430. The Corvette also IMO won't break 7:50 with a truly stock car, a standing start and a non-racecar driver. I could be wrong though.



    My post was in response to Targatim's claim that the tt's time was not that much better than the 997S. Obviously, the, reported, time of the tt is a great deal better than the 997S. Targatim had used this for a reason not to trade up to a tt, which I disagree with.
    As far asd the tt's time, I'll wait for future tests. Even, if it is slower than the vette, this data will not deter me from buying the tt.

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Quote:
    arakis said:
    F430 7:55 time is bougus, It can go way faster then that, that was sandbaging by the SportAuto



    Why would you say so?

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    devo said:
    If the time is accurate, it is disappointing. However, how can you say that it is not much better than a 911S?. It's a great deal better than the S.
    It takes A LOT to gain a few seconds.



    If you ask me, the time is great, if it has been achieved by Von Saurma and not by Röhrl. The 7:52 Gallardo time was done with Corsas if I'm not mistaken, so was ther 7:55 time by the F430. The Corvette also IMO won't break 7:50 with a truly stock car, a standing start and a non-racecar driver. I could be wrong though.



    Crash, I agree that 7:49 looks good compared to the Gallardo and F430 time. However, if you consider that the GT2 Mk1 already did 7:46...

    I think that 7:49 would be very disappointing given 480hp, VTG, a new 4WD system, PCCB, latest tire technology, etc. etc.



    Yes, the thought had crossed my mind. However, we don't know the specs of the car. Did it have LSD or not? Tip or manual? Sport Chrono or not? All these variables are important to me. If it was just the basic car, which my assumption is based on, then the time is very good. The addition of the LSD and the overboost will surely improve the time even further (not to forget that the GT2 weighed 150 kilos less).

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    arakis said:
    F430 7:55 time is bougus, It can go way faster then that, that was sandbaging by the SportAuto



    Why would you say so?



    Because 'injustice' and 'conspiracy' seem to be very common words in Belgrade right now.

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    devo said:
    If the time is accurate, it is disappointing. However, how can you say that it is not much better than a 911S?. It's a great deal better than the S.
    It takes A LOT to gain a few seconds.



    If you ask me, the time is great, if it has been achieved by Von Saurma and not by Röhrl. The 7:52 Gallardo time was done with Corsas if I'm not mistaken, so was ther 7:55 time by the F430. The Corvette also IMO won't break 7:50 with a truly stock car, a standing start and a non-racecar driver. I could be wrong though.



    Crash, I agree that 7:49 looks good compared to the Gallardo and F430 time. However, if you consider that the GT2 Mk1 already did 7:46...

    I think that 7:49 would be very disappointing given 480hp, VTG, a new 4WD system, PCCB, latest tire technology, etc. etc.



    Yes, the thought had crossed my mind. However, we don't know the specs of the car. Did it have LSD or not? Tip or manual? Sport Chrono or not? All these variables are important to me. If it was just the basic car, which my assumption is based on, then the time is very good. The addition of the LSD and the overboost will surely improve the time even further (not to forget that the GT2 weighed 150 kilos less).



    I agree, if it was the time of the standard car (i.e. worst case time) I would be satisfied with the result. Let's hope it was a standard car

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Quote:
    arakis said:
    F430 7:55 time is bougus, It can go way faster then that, that was sandbaging by the SportAuto



    Hwo many times do I need to say that Porsches have been mant times faster than Ferraris in different magazines from different countries?...including Italian magazines.

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    arakis said:
    F430 7:55 time is bougus, It can go way faster then that, that was sandbaging by the SportAuto



    Why would you say so?



    Because 'injustice' and 'conspiracy' seem to be very common words in Belgrade right now.



    not only now, also the past 50 years

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    I think it's a quite impressive time. I was expecting a little lower, but a 7:49 is still very fast.

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    YAZTIPC -" Yet Another Corvette Triggered Internet Pissing Contest ". Subie, Supra ,M5 , Ferrari, Porsche ,Viper, Camry,CTS ,AMG,Yugo board it's all the same . Thread Number 1 Gazillion at my last count . ZZZZzzzzz... wake me up in 5 years when all this has died down since the rumored 2900lb /650 hp supercharged Vette SS will start it all over again in two years . It's amazing how many Americans hate any American product , but will go to war anywhere to kill to prop up our collective national pride for any foreigner who would besmirch us and what we build/stand for .Schizoid

    I've recently been researching buying boats ( I 'm getting board with cars ) and it's the same on all the boat boards , too. Can't get away from it.

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Sorry guys, but why should these 7.49 be a valid time?? we dont know which car spec or setup was used, dont know the driver, dont know the measurement procedures, the tyres etc!!!!
    this claim, though it looks realistic at first glance is at least as unsubstantiated as the 7.42 of the z06!
    It's waste of energy to write dozen of posts on these kind of rumours. unlike for the z06 we do not even have an objective measurement of the 997tt performance times, only factory claims.

    so just relax and wait for a test from a decent magazine, then we'll talk again!

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Quote:
    turbolite said:
    Sorry guys, but why should these 7.49 be a valid time?? we dont know which car spec or setup was used, dont know the driver, dont know the measurement procedures, the tyres etc!!!!
    this claim, though it looks realistic at first glance is at least as unsubstantiated as the 7.42 of the z06!
    It's waste of energy to write dozen of posts on these kind of rumours. unlike for the z06 we do not even have an objective measurement of the 997tt performance times, only factory claims.

    so just relax and wait for a test from a decent magazine, then we'll talk again!



    It's more valid, since we can compare it to previous Porsche times, such as the 7:56 for a stock Turbo with the mushy suspension (997TT dramatically improved in that area), or the 462 HP GT2 with 7:46. The 7:49 seems entirely realistic, considering the car has more horsepower than the Mk1 GT2, the same brakes, better torque curve and an advanced AWD, which doesn't sap power. On the other hand, we have the C6 Corvette with a time of 8:15, while the claimed time was somewhere in the 7:50's.

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    It also turns out, Von Somra only managed to produde a 0-60mph time of 5.2 sec., while every other mag did it in the mid 4s. Even staff writers at Road and Track beat Von Surma. It should raise some eyebrows regarding his credibility.


    So, why are Europeans so fixated with SportAuto? Von Surma is a puppet. Porsche has been pulling his strings for years.



    Yes, objective track testing is always a thorn for people like you ... don't play the "if you can't win by the rules, lets shoot down the credibility of the rules" game, we are much too versed on "the rules" and the Ring for your sake...

    BTW, as to the difference between acceleration times, let me give you a hint: Saurma (not Somra) does not produce 0-60mph times! (nor does he use powershifting)



    Yes, you use the metric system, nevertheless, a pathetic result from a supposed pro driver.

    But, really, who cares anymore about ring time? We already know the result as long as Von Surma is driving.

    Turbo v. Zo6? Porsche wins every time. Even the Gt3 will beat the Zo6. Porsche wouldn't allow Sport Auto to print it any other way.



    Thats not what I was hnting at, its not just that Saurma uses the metric system, its that 0-60mph equates to 0-98km/h and Saurma's time is for 0-100km/h.

    Who cares anymore about ring time? poseurs and boy racers don't but performance oriented buyers do, no matter how much of a "inconvenience" they are for sectarian tiffosi.

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Quote:
    Branimir said:
    Carlos, I have to correct you little bit...
    Lamborghini Gallardo times achived in Supertest(12/2003) were-Hockenheim: 1.11,8min(excellent time!)
    -Nordschleife: 7.52min(not 7.50min)
    Gallardo was with optional sport setup(different suspension and faster steering-price in Germany 1700Euro).

    Ferrari F430F1 Supertest 01/2006
    Hockenheim: 1.12,7min
    Nordchleife: 7.55min
    F430 were with ceramic brakes and Pirell Corsa's.

    Porsche 997S(PCCB,-20mm/LSD) Supertest 05/2005
    Hockenheim: 1.14,3min
    Nordchleife: 8.05min
    Note: for the same setup Porsche claimed time around 8.00min in hands of W.Rohrl!

    Is 7.49min realistic? Manual(with LSD) or TIP? Driver-W.Rohrl? If this time is set by W.Rohrl then Sport Auto Supertest time achived by Horst von Saurma will not be that good... von Saurma times around Ring were allways little bit slower then factory Porsche times achived by W.Rohrl.
    This is the reason why IMO Sport Auto Supertest is the only relatively objective car review on(and not only on) race track.



    Thanks Bradimir, my mistake, Gallardo was 7:52 not 7:50.

    Re: here's one source for the Z06 time

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    turbolite said:
    Sorry guys, but why should these 7.49 be a valid time?? we dont know which car spec or setup was used, dont know the driver, dont know the measurement procedures, the tyres etc!!!!
    this claim, though it looks realistic at first glance is at least as unsubstantiated as the 7.42 of the z06!
    It's waste of energy to write dozen of posts on these kind of rumours. unlike for the z06 we do not even have an objective measurement of the 997tt performance times, only factory claims.

    so just relax and wait for a test from a decent magazine, then we'll talk again!



    It's more valid, since we can compare it to previous Porsche times, such as the 7:56 for a stock Turbo with the mushy suspension (997TT dramatically improved in that area), or the 462 HP GT2 with 7:46. The 7:49 seems entirely realistic, considering the car has more horsepower than the Mk1 GT2, the same brakes, better torque curve and an advanced AWD, which doesn't sap power. On the other hand, we have the C6 Corvette with a time of 8:15, while the claimed time was somewhere in the 7:50's.



    As I just said the 997tt time looks very well possible, but it's not proven at all and therefore it's not a valid claim, just speculation.
    As much as the 7.42 of the z06 is speculation (and rather admittedly improbable) as nobody knows the details of that run.
    Still that car at least has proven it's surprising performance against all sceptics in the recent AMS test, a thing which hasnt happened with the 997tt yet. The burden of proof re performance lies with the Porsche this time...

    Re: Nordschleife 7.49

    Quote:
    vinnie said:
    Even if the Z06 lap is a flying lap and you add 5 seconds to make up for the lack of a standing start it's a great victory for the Z06!!

    If this is true it's very embarrassing for Porsche. To lose in a straight line is one thing but to lose on the track that Porsche design their cars for is nothing short of a complete annihilation. Especially since it's their flagship model which has just been released!!



    yeah! and that the Porsche costs 2+ times as much money, right?

    Re: Nordschleife 7.49

    Quote:
    Nic said:
    it's offical..

    The 997 TT covers the Ring in 7.49!!!

    impressive...



    Official? By Porsche?
    I wait for the Sport Auto time, it could be worse, it could be better. The 7:49 claimed by Porsche were done under not ideal weather conditions, btw.

    Re: Nordschleife 7.49

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Nic said:
    it's offical..

    The 997 TT covers the Ring in 7.49!!!

    impressive...



    Official? By Porsche?
    I wait for the Sport Auto time, it could be worse, it could be better. The 7:49 claimed by Porsche were done under not ideal weather conditions, btw.



    not ideal weather conditions

    what could that mean?

    now i know! snow and ice pretty impressive

    Re: Nordschleife 7.49

    Quote:
    guy2 said:
    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    Nic said:
    it's offical..

    The 997 TT covers the Ring in 7.49!!!

    impressive...



    Official? By Porsche?
    I wait for the Sport Auto time, it could be worse, it could be better. The 7:49 claimed by Porsche were done under not ideal weather conditions, btw.



    not ideal weather conditions

    what could that mean?

    now i know! snow and ice pretty impressive



    In reverse gear, too! It was too cold, so the gearbox froze

    Re: Nordschleife 7.49

    yeah and with open doors and trunk to improve aerodynamics

    Re: Nordschleife 7.49

    just found that on the net:

    7.49 - normal tires

    7.42 - sport tires

    found here: http://www.netzeitung.de/autoundtechnik/386573.html

    btw - they claim a 8.00 for the 996tt - von saurma did a 7.56 with the 996tt


    Re: Nordschleife 7.49

    Very good find Nic!
    So, 7.49min with normal tires and 7.42min(!!) with semi-slicks... In the hand of W.Rohrl I guess? If this times were achived by W.Rohrl that Sport Auto times by Horst von Saurma will be little bit slower(again, I am guessing).
    One other hint according to my friend who works at P. this times are for 997 Turbo manual with optional LSD... And TIP version is few seconds slower on Ring.

     
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