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    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:

    Actually, where I live (Denver and drive in the nearby mountains), the Noble would smoke the Z06 due to the thin air (turbos keep making boost). Z06 would be reduced to the same power and torque of the Noble, but the Noble weighs 700 lbs less...



    We're not talking old carbs here. New cars ECU's in thin air compensate by adding timing or fuel. The power loses at high elevations are minimal now.



    Since the last thing you wanna do when the air gets thin is to add more fuel, your argument somehow doesn't convince me.

    As Grant implied, low air density reduces the amount of combustible mixture inducted by a naturally aspirated engine, and if your ECU starts standing on its head while whistling a happy tune, it is not going to compensate for that.

    Modern ignition/injection systems do compensate better for high altitudes than carbs did, but they do not eliminate the effects of "thin" air.

    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:

    Actually, where I live (Denver and drive in the nearby mountains), the Noble would smoke the Z06 due to the thin air (turbos keep making boost). Z06 would be reduced to the same power and torque of the Noble, but the Noble weighs 700 lbs less...



    We're not talking old carbs here. New cars ECU's in thin air compensate by adding timing or fuel. The power loses at high elevations are minimal now.



    Since the last thing you wanna do when the air gets thin is to add more fuel, your argument somehow doesn't convince me.

    As Grant implied, low air density reduces the amount of combustible mixture inducted by a naturally aspirated engine, and if your ECU starts standing on its head while whistling a happy tune, it is not going to compensate for that.

    Modern ignition/injection systems do compensate better for high altitudes than carbs did, but they do not eliminate the effects of "thin" air.



    There are many more varibles then I had spoken about....my point was it isn't like it was 30 years ago when cars were not fuel injected and such. The differences will be minimal....WRC cars lose 3-8% of there power at the highest elevations. That is not to much....

    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    This year, f1 cars lost 8% of power at Interlagos, the track's altitude is only 800m/2625 ft...i think that's not negligable.

    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:Modern ignition/injection systems do compensate better for high altitudes than carbs did, but they do not eliminate the effects of "thin" air.



    There are many more varibles then I had spoken about....my point was it isn't like it was 30 years ago when cars were not fuel injected and such. The differences will be minimal....WRC cars lose 3-8% of there power at the highest elevations. That is not to much....


    The average loss for a normally aspirated motor is 4% per 1,000 ft above sea level. I typically drive between 5-10k ft elevations and occasioanlly to 14k ft. all with 1 hour's drive from home.

    Here's a calculator:

    http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_hp.htm

    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    Quote:
    Cookie Monster said:
    This year, f1 cars lost 8% of power at Interlagos, the track's altitude is only 800m/2625 ft...i think that's not negligable.





    F1 tuning can not be compared....a different animal....

    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    I love these threads.....

    Such love for the Z06, and from hard-core P-Heads and F-car owners of all things. It is almost blasphamy, in fact, it appears as if many of you "haters" cannot, or will not accept that this car kicks some serious ass and actually has a warranty even on the track. You make up silly reason's to dislike the car without forming a truely objective view. (Granted, a test drive is the only way to know for sure if it is really that good and that is next to impossible for the Europeans among us.)

    Regarding the car's handling. What is actually slightly comical is that from the Bowling Green factory where the car is built, Suspension Alignment is more often than not WAY OUT of vehicle spec's. If you check with the Corvette Forums you will find this is common, so...., a simple trip to the Dealership or your local trusted Speed Shop will be money well spent and improve an already capable package.

    I did this myself last month with my C6 at a local shop and the results TRANSFORMED the car 100%. Before the alignment a turn that I might take at 70 mph, I would now take at 85 mph with confidence. Granted, I went with an alignment half way between a track and factory setup so a direct speed comparo is not fair.

    So, please tell your fellow Z06 owner's to go get an alignment done and post their results!

    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    Quote:
    RR4 said:
    http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthre...mp;forum_id=100

    Apparently it makes 492HP at the rear wheels.

    How do you say, Houston, we got a problem in German and Italian?



    Wait till owners do a simple cam swap/long tube headers/custom tune on the car.

    Then you should see 550-580 HP to the rear wheels, and all for Che-bby tuner prices!

    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    It breaths air and drinks gasoline, and you can be sure that the team tried to minimize the loss by every known techtip.
    The loss seems to be about the same as what Grant says.

    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    Quote:
    Cookie Monster said:
    This year, f1 cars lost 8% of power at Interlagos, the track's altitude is only 800m/2625 ft...i think that's not negligable.





    F1 tuning can not be compared....a different animal....



    The physics stays the same ......

    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:WRC cars lose 3-8% of there power at the highest elevations. That is not to much....


    The WRC cars are all turbocharged.

    Give up

    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    Quote:
    Al Pettee said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Its quicker and faster than a GT2 for Cayman money.




    But it's slower than the Noble M400 I tested last weekend,


    But in most counties the Noble isn't street-legal 'cause it doen't pass any crash tests....no thanks.



    In our beloved state of New York, the car can be registered as a "component car" which allows VIN's assigned to vehicles sans air bags. Are you aware of county-specific overrides which don't allow these vehicles on the road?

    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    Quote:
    Al Pettee said:
    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    Quote:
    Al Pettee said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Its quicker and faster than a GT2 for Cayman money.




    But it's slower than the Noble M400 I tested last weekend,


    But in most counties the Noble isn't street-legal 'cause it doen't pass any crash tests....no thanks.



    In our beloved state of New York, the car can be registered as a "component car" which allows VIN's assigned to vehicles sans air bags. Are you aware of county-specific overrides which don't allow these vehicles on the road?



    Well as far as I know, a Noble is for "off road use only".

    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    Quote:
    Al Pettee said:
    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    Quote:
    Al Pettee said:
    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Its quicker and faster than a GT2 for Cayman money.




    But it's slower than the Noble M400 I tested last weekend,


    But in most counties the Noble isn't street-legal 'cause it doen't pass any crash tests....no thanks.



    In our beloved state of New York, the car can be registered as a "component car" which allows VIN's assigned to vehicles sans air bags. Are you aware of county-specific overrides which don't allow these vehicles on the road?



    Well as far as I know, a Noble is for "off road use only".



    Thanks, BlueCamSS,

    The Noble M400 is indeed a great track car, but it also is perfectly driveable on the road. In New York State, it belongs under the DMV designation as a component or "homemade" ( ) car, and to be able to register it for sanctioned use on the road, it needs to conform to standard vehicle equipment regulations (proper tail lights, bumpers, turn signals, side markers, and so on). Your comment raised the spectre of individual counties in the state restricting vehicle use to "off-road" (e.g., track) settings, overriding the state endorsement of the vehicle's use on the road (since "homemade" cars registered in the state can be driven on the road). Do you (or anyone else) know if counties actually restrict this class of vehicle this way?

    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    Al, I'm surprised that (esp as a physician) you're comfortable w/risk of head/spinal injuries in any car w/less than state-of-art safety systems......hope the risk-reward balance of this car justifies the loopholes/exceptions game......

    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Al, I'm surprised that (esp as a physician) you're comfortable w/risk of head/spinal injuries in any car w/less than state-of-art safety systems......hope the risk-reward balance of this car justifies the loopholes/exceptions game......



    I understand the step up in risk. I do draw the line at motorcycles, however.

    Re: Guy's there is a new sheriff in town.

    Quote:
    Al Pettee said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Al, I'm surprised that (esp as a physician) you're comfortable w/risk of head/spinal injuries in any car w/less than state-of-art safety systems......hope the risk-reward balance of this car justifies the loopholes/exceptions game......



    I understand the step up in risk. I do draw the line at motorcycles, however.



    Always interesting to hear different guys' risk-reward thresholds....

    Personally, prefer 996TTSCoupe (w/roof and windows closed), esp for crash days...and on non-crash days, 430s are so much more visceral.....

     
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