Crown

Board: Other Sports Cars Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Porker:
    Gauss:

    McLaren P1 vs. the Nürburgring-Nordschleife

     

     

    Impressive! Actually this really looked like a sub-7min lap, rather than the more clinical 918 footage. Anyone who's tried to lap the Nordschleife in sub-8mins will confess that's it's a properly hairy experience, so I would think a sub-7min lap would appear extreme even on video. In the P1-footage it does, in the 918-vid, it doesn't.

    The 918 video taken mostly from inside the cockpit thus the P1 video actually shows mostly the surface of the Nordschleife. Smiley Maybe the camera was mounted to a F1 car. Smiley However, the P1 lap isn't official, nobody actually knows if the car was stock and if the record stands. The "under 7 minutes" claim is quite weird, why can't they say 6:59 or 6:55 or whatever? This reminds me a little bit of Nissan and their weird GT-R claims at times, none of which has EVER been proven officially.

    I get the feeling that McLaren made this video only because they got under serious pressure from the 918 video. What a  shame, a company like McLaren shouldn't need to do that, especially since they have nothing official (record or at least a an official time) on their hands. Great marketing towards the internet crowd but I doubt that potential customers are that stupid. Smiley

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    RC:
    Impressive! Actually this really looked like a sub-7min lap, rather than the more clinical 918 footage. Anyone who's tried to

     Great marketing towards the internet crowd but I doubt that potential customers are that stupid. Smiley

    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Maybe it's not totally convincing, but would it really be stupid for someone to buy a P1 if the true Ring time was 7:01?  And if it's 10 sec faster than 918 instead, I'm not sure that would invalidate someone's purchase of a 918 either.  They are quite different cars.  Obviously both super fast, even if we don't know specifically the time interval.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    IF one only goes by video footage, the P1 seems like it's been driven to the edge and back like 105%, while the 918 seems like it's not even close to being driven 100% yet, look at how at ease Lieb was driving it. 

    Some buy the cars based on promises, some buy them purely to speculate, some buy them for their technical merits, some buy it for the bragging rights to be the fastest of their generation. Those that bought into the P1 are either speculators who hope the car will repeat the F1's price trajectory, or bought it based on the promises Dennis made. The way McLaren did the lap and didn't announced the time, the bragging right issue is moot.  The technical side is also a moot point, as the P1 is just a further development of the 12C platform, nothing really ground breaking there. 

    Can the P1 be faster than the 918? Quite possibly on paper as the P1 is a lot lighter with 'more' HP and downforce. It's what Ron Dennis promised, fastest road going track car ever. The future value of the P1 is also based on this promise, the F1 was the fastest road car for the longest time, it's also was and still is the best 'analog' sports car ever. That's why the value goes up. It's the best. 

    The P1 needs to beat the 918 by a BIG margin in order to claim that title, if it's only a few seconds, then the fact that the 918 aka the porky pig is nibbling at it's heels will work against it. 

     

     


    --

     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Whoopsy:

    The P1 needs to beat the 918 by a BIG margin in order to claim that title, if it's only a few seconds, then the fact that the 918 aka the porky pig is nibbling at it's heels will work against it. 

     

    Maybe the P1 is much more fun to drive with its hydraulic steering, RWD, and much lower weight?  If so (I have no idea, having driven neither), that would be worth something to me...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    I already have the 12C, which has everything you listed.............. :)

    P1 is just a 12C on steroid in the engine department, 50% more power and quite a bit more downforce.

     


    --

     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Whoopsy:

    I already have the 12C, which has everything you listed.............. :)

    P1 is just a 12C on steroid in the engine department, 50% more power and quite a bit more downforce.

     

    True.  Do you love it?  What do you hear about the P13 (smaller/lighter 12C on weak sleeping pills in the engine department  Smiley).  I am intrigued...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Truth is, I love my McLaren only because of the doors. And the one McLaren I REALLY want is the F1, buying the 12C was kind of a surrogate for it. There was 2 posters on my wall, a F1 and a 959. The F1 is pretty much unattainable so I settled for the little baby brother. The 959 on the other hand is now within reach.......................

     

    There are other things I noticed after 12 months of ownership:

    The shape of the car is very pleasant to the eyes, very timeless design. 

    The driving experience is fantastic, the car pretty much tells everything that's going on to the driver.

    While the traction control is amazing in controlling the 600+hp, I feel like the engine has already overpowered the chassis, 600 is way too much for only 2 wheels to handle. The P1 will feel even worse with 50% more HP.

    Engine sound is fantastic, miles ahead of what I got in the Turbo S. That roar at 8500rpm is unmatched by anything else on the road. 

    In the end, my Turbo S can pretty much match everything the 12C can offer, other than the doors. Hell I got more cargo room in the Turbo S. 

    Which brings me to the next point, I am pretty much set on letting go of the 12C when my 918 arrives next spring. Both are eye catching car and I didn't need to keep both. I am however keeping the Turbo S, the amazing performance from such a understated car is irreplaceable. 

    As for the P13, from what I know, it will play in the 911 field, but with Porsche making such a perfect car, there is no way anyone can produce something better in their 1st try. But since it will be build off the 12C platform too, that would makes the P! even less special as it's also a 12C platform car. Neutered 12C = P13, Steroided 12C = P1. 

     

     

     


    --

     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    It was clear that Mclaren went to the Ring for a record, but something went wrong. 

    Either the time wasn't good enough, or most probably it was just sector times, but not a complete good lap. The last one is proved by some really credible sources... indecision

    Also look at this screenshot... Which company will go to the Ring for "adjustments" and will wrap all the gaps, if the time isn't supoused to be "important" for them...? smileyScreenshot_2013-12-08-17-40-59.png


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Is it possible that the P1 runs out of battery juice before the lap ends ? yes - I understand that happened even with teh 918 who has mostsurely a bigger pack - hence the P1 might run with "only" the engine for quite some part of the lap - at least NBR. I am sure P1 is faster around a smaller track - but it would make sense to me that the 918 is king of the NBR.....


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    BjoernB:

    Is it possible that the P1 runs out of battery juice before the lap ends ? yes - I understand that happened even with teh 918 who has mostsurely a bigger pack - hence the P1 might run with "only" the engine for quite some part of the lap - at least NBR. I am sure P1 is faster around a smaller track - but it would make sense to me that the 918 is king of the NBR.....

    Possible. Or the P1 just didn't beat the 918 time. Even the same time as the 918 would have been a marketing disaster for the McLaren crew, so maybe they chose to make the best out of it by not posting a precise number but "under 7 minutes", for whatever (irrational in my opinion) reasons. The internet crowd is cheering but like I said before, potential owners are a bit more intelligent. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    BjoernB:

    Is it possible that the P1 runs out of battery juice before the lap ends ? yes - I understand that happened even with teh 918 who has mostsurely a bigger pack - hence the P1 might run with "only" the engine for quite some part of the lap - at least NBR. I am sure P1 is faster around a smaller track - but it would make sense to me that the 918 is king of the NBR.....

     

    From what I gathered, the P1 can never run out of battery power. When the battery runs low, the ECU would divert engine power to run the electric motor in generator motor to top up the battery. It also run it in generator mode whenever the condition doesn't call for max power, while coasting, part throttle, etc. 

    So in other words, the only time the car puts down the whole 903HP is when the battery is fully charged and doing a standing start. On the same token, the car is driven primarily by the 727HP petrol engine as logic dictates if the electric motor is being used as a generator, it's can't be used as a traction motor. 

    This would also explain the Ring times. 918 while has a lower HP petrol engine, only at 608HP, it can be on 'juice' most of the time, rough calculations: for 918,  3600lb/887HP = 4.06lb/HP.  P1 on paper would be 3080lb/903HP = 3.41lb/HP, but since it doesn't run the electric motor that much, then 3080lb/727HP = 4.24lb/HP,  and voila, the ratio is worse than the 918 now.

    Porsche has the advantage of 2 motors, so in theory one motor can be used to regen the battery while the other is used for traction if max power is not called for, built in flexibility. Plus it does brake regen. The calibration of the system is the work of over 2 years of testing and trial and error. The results speak for themselves. McLaren on the other hand just slap on the simplest hybrid system possible to the 12C's drivetrain, saves on testing and calibration time but it doesn't have the flexibility. 


    --

     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    WTF! Does anyone here believe McLaren would produce AND distribute a promotional video if they did not crack the 7 minute mark by a large margin? Had the car failed, the video would have be shelved and certainly not distributed for public consumption.

    I suspect at the right time they are going to provide the numbers. They are probably waiting for Ferrari and Porsche to give their best number before one upping them.


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    agree, mclaren officially said that they cracked the 7 minute time "comfortably". they used that word and im pretty sure comfortably means more than a second or two. Most people think the margin is much more than a few secs and that Mclaren is sitting on it waiting for LaF's time...


    --

    2011 CTT, 2013 12C Spider, 2013 A5 cab, 2014 4Runner Trail Edition

     

     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    If McLaren's time isn't at least 20-30 seconds faster than a 918, it should be considered a failure. On paper it is much much lighter and has more power and downforce.

    Porsche has already stated the 6:57 is not even close to their best, they took it easy just so they can finish the lap. Quite a few people have had confirmations from Porsche that another 10 secs can easily be had, and that would put the 918 at 6:47. But Porsche is holding their cards to their chest waiting for McLaren. 

    But think about it, even if McLaren confirmed a 6:30, and say 6:45 is the absolute best from a 918, is 15 seconds a big enough gap for a car that has an extra 30hp and 600lb less weight?

    McLaren probably realized either way they cannot win and this is their best retreat route and saves face. 


    --

     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Whoopsy:

    But think about it, even if McLaren confirmed a 6:30, and say 6:45 is the absolute best from a 918, is 15 seconds a big enough gap for a car that has an extra 30hp and 600lb less weight?

    Yes, if they make a 6:30 lap, they won't have to apologize to anyone.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    nberry:

    WTF! Does anyone here believe McLaren would produce AND distribute a promotional video if they did not crack the 7 minute mark by a large margin? Had the car failed, the video would have be shelved and certainly not distributed for public consumption.

    I suspect at the right time they are going to provide the numbers. They are probably waiting for Ferrari and Porsche to give their best number before one upping them.

    Nick, I did the Nordschleife in under 8 minutes...on my E-Bike but I won't post the exact time yet for various reasons but I will post it at the right time. Smiley Smiley

    On a serious note: I think McLaren cracked the 7 minute mark, indeed but they didn't beat the 918 time by much (or at all), so the time is irrelevant for marketing purposes because it would hurt them. This is exactly the reason why I do not understand why the actually posted the "under 7 minutes" claim. It doesn't make sense, this is something usually Nissan does with the GT-R to please the Playstation/Internet crowd. Smiley

    In my opinion, McLaren was under pressure to post a time and they did but they should have waited until they actually have something more "provable" on their hands, like an official record for example.

    Their benchmark should be 6:45 or lower if they want to impress because I'm not sure Porsche could do under 6:50 in the 918 at this point. Now 6:45 is quite a time but even if they would hit 6:45 and Porsche would do 6:50 in another attempt, McLaren would still have a problem: The P1 costs way more and it is also much lighter. So why is the difference that small? Smiley 6:30 minutes would be amazing for the P1 but I highly doubt it for now.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    918 IMO is capable of a time in the range 6,45 - 6,47min. for sure. This is visible in their recorded run:

     - active aero didn't work 100% - confirmed;

    - ML didn't push near the limit - confirmed by him;

    - limited numbers of laps - confirmed by Porsche;

    - strange setup of the car/hybrid system, because it didn't reach 300km/h on the final straight. I'm sure it can be tuned in a new attempt... 


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    IMHO Mclaren will not post an official time now, even if it is impressive.  I think the back and forth with EVO magazine has given them an escape.  And, while I like EVO magazine, I did not feel the position of the Editor was completely objective (he is in the middle of a long-term lender with Mclaren and has become a go to person for Mclaren).  I am not accusing him of everything being Mclaren's "boy", because his point is very valid (i.e. that a NBR ring race is and could become dangerous).  But the way it was transmitted was strange - Mclaren certainly went to the Ring with intent, they dialed the car in with intent, then only afterwards, they have a reporter who was their to report on the intent state in his own words that Mclaren feels positing its time would lead to an NBR ring race that is dangerous).  That didn't sit well.  

    But back to my original point, I don't see McLaren now coming out and saying here is our official time (even if it is smashing) as it would go against their discussions with EVO.  If they do get an unbelievable time, I see them leaking it indirectly and then hiding behind their unwillingness to officially announce times as it will lead to a dangerous back and forth.  

    Finally, I agree with a poster above that stated they likely ran lap sections.  I also agree that without regen brakes that will not be able to sustain the full battery load through the length of the ring.  


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    bhnyc:

    Mclaren certainly went to the Ring with intent, they dialed the car in with intent, then only afterwards, they have a reporter who was their to report on the intent state in his own words that Mclaren feels positing its time would lead to an NBR ring race that is dangerous).  That didn't sit well.  

    This as I understand is that McLaren P1 may have beaten 918's time or it was so close to the 918's time that it would lead the Porsche to go back to try again and easily improve on 6:57 time to beat McLaren.  This would ultimately leave McLaren no other choice but to go back and try to beat whatever the 918 can improve on.  

    By comparing videos of 918 vs. P1, McLaren's attempt to improve on its time would put heavier burden on McLaren's test drivers, as 918's lap looks relaxed and seems to have room to improve, while P1's lap looks like McLaren test driver is giving its absolute boot to go in and out of its limit.  

    It would be dangerous to improve on such a maximum attack lap.

    My suspicion is that P1 did beat 918 but not by very much. Smiley


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    ^ Sector times, mate... Very fast sector times, but the Ring is tooooo long for Mr. Dennis and his KERS system... 


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    THis deserves its own thread but since I am unable to start a thread I will place it here. Interesting concept!

    http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2013/12/16/end-windshield-wiper/


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    I believe that nurburgring lap time is not the most important thing, the most important thing is in approach in building such cars. What I like the most in 918, it is that Porsche has gone the most complex way to build the car. Totally bespoke engine, chassis, electronics, interior, cfrp subframe and connecting points. I am almost sure that Porsche invested much more funds in 918 than Ferrari and Mclaren altogether. Almost sure that to build such a car as 918 is much more expensive process than with LF and P1. Maybe porsche even lose money on each sold 918.

    LF from tech point of view, I think, is the compromise between 918 and P1. Bespoke chassis, but aluminium subframe, same engine block as in F12 and some common interior parts.

    Mclaren P1, I believe, is the cheapest one to develop. Basically same engine as in m4-12c and p13, same chassis except roof part, "simply mp4-12c with kers and advanced aero". Maybe I am wrong, but thats what I see...

    Anyway, all these 3 cars are great, no doubt. But If Ferrari and Mclaren make evolutionary cars, Porsche makes revolution, broadening the way into future.;) I am happy to see that there remain some companies that are not afraid to go ahead. One of them is Porsche.


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Am I the only one here who thinks that sub 7 minute Ring times must be extremely dangerous to achieve? Similar to the Isle of Man motorcycle race - which requires a lot of talent but also a high risk factor. Many have died there!!! MotoGP hasn't run there for a long time,as F1 on the Ring. These tracks are much too fast, with no runoffs and basically NO margin for error. One big mistake and you are toast! We are talking about 900+hp to control. 

    My point - if these manufacturers aren't careful and one of their test drivers die - they may quit using the Ring in the future.

    I don't believe many buyers of any of these ultra Supercars cares about Ring times. Its more about brand loyalty, personal tastes or potential appreciation. 

    Give me a CGT, Enzo or Zonda and I'd be a happy camper. None of this electric power for me - thank you very much.

     

     

     

     

     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    The current known record of a lap of the Ring is 6:11 or something by a Porsche 956. 

    Now that's a dangerous lap. But if that car/driver combo were asked to back off and drive a say 6:50 lap, then the lap itself won't be as dangerous. The danger lies within the margin of safety provided by the capability of the car, if one needs to drive a car 110% in order to achieve a sub 7 lap, then it will be much more dangerous than a car that only needs to be driven 90% in order to achieve sub 7. 

     

     


    --

     


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Whoopsy:

    The current known record of a lap of the Ring is 6:11 or something by a Porsche 956. 

    Now that's a dangerous lap. But if that car/driver combo were asked to back off and drive a say 6:50 lap, then the lap itself won't be as dangerous. The danger lies within the margin of safety provided by the capability of the car, if one needs to drive a car 110% in order to achieve a sub 7 lap, then it will be much more dangerous than a car that only needs to be driven 90% in order to achieve sub 7. 

     

     

    Whoopsy - As the average speeds increase so does the risk factor. There are no runoff areas,just steel barriers. The harder you hit them the greater the chance of disaster. All of these manufacturers are trying their best to out lap each other - don't think their drivers are leaving much on the table. Your 10% assumption is just unrealistic IMO. That would add 40+ seconds!!!

    As for comparable lap times, unless the same driver drives each car on the same day with the same tires IMO all this lap time talk is just pointless. 


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

     I just read the P1 made 6.59,17 min (2 sec slower than 918) on Nurburgring drove by Chris Goodwin the main factory test driver. Car was configure for race track mode, the rear wing was up 300mm, suspension lowered 50mm and the RaceActive suspension was tuned for this specific event. Max speed achieved was 330Kph on the Dottinger Hohe straight, but it was mention in the article, max speed was electronic limited!!!!!I

    J.Seven


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    mp:
    Whoopsy - As the average speeds increase so does the risk factor. There are no runoff areas,just steel barriers. The harder you hit them the greater the chance of disaster. All of these manufacturers are trying their best to out lap each other - don't think their drivers are leaving much on the table. Your 10% assumption is just unrealistic IMO. That would add 40+ seconds!!!

    As for comparable lap times, unless the same driver drives each car on the same day with the same tires IMO all this lap time talk is just pointless. 

    I'm afraid a lot of people care about lap times, even if 90% of the owners won't ever track race their car. Smiley

    I fully agree with you: I mentioned in a different post that I drove with a couple of professional drivers as a passenger on the track but even if I have the highest respect for these drivers, I would never ever drive with them at full speed on the Nordschleife. The Nordschleife is not a track you have many chances to survive if you crash at over 300 kph. I'm not talking about technical/mechanical failures but driver error. It can happen, you never know.

    Watching Marc Lieb's record lap in the 918 a couple of times made me realize that he was driving at the limit most of the time. Yes, with some adjustments, technical improvements, some further analysis of older laps and some more tries, Marc Lieb could probably hit 6:50 min, maybe even less. There wouldn't be any error margin left in that case. Marc Lieb is young and ambitious, I just hope he always does the right thing.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    J.Seven:

     I just read the P1 made 6.59,17 min (2 sec slower than 918) on Nurburgring drove by Chris Goodwin the main factory test driver. Car was configure for race track mode, the rear wing was up 300mm, suspension lowered 50mm and the RaceActive suspension was tuned for this specific event. Max speed achieved was 330Kph on the Dottinger Hohe straight, but it was mention in the article, max speed was electronic limited!!!!!I

    J.Seven

    Do you have a link for this?  Sounds interesting (and surprising)


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    Grant:
    J.Seven:

     I just read the P1 made 6.59,17 min (2 sec slower than 918) on Nurburgring drove by Chris Goodwin the main factory test driver. Car was configure for race track mode, the rear wing was up 300mm, suspension lowered 50mm and the RaceActive suspension was tuned for this specific event. Max speed achieved was 330Kph on the Dottinger Hohe straight, but it was mention in the article, max speed was electronic limited!!!!!I

    J.Seven

    Do you have a link for this?  Sounds interesting (and surprising)

    It´s a Portuguese magazine (Auto Foco) associated with Auto Build, so I believe Auto Build from this week must be the font.

    J.Seven


    Re: McLaren P1 - Official

    https://twitter.com/AsianMartin/status/408944993231835136

    A twit by somebody


    --

     


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 2/14/19 1:26 AM
    watt
    331081 2045
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 2/20/19 7:55 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    218514 1124
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 2/15/19 11:05 AM
    RCA
    146159 2579
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/20/19 7:39 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    62033 811
    Porsche Sticky Paint protection film 2/18/19 9:28 AM
    RCA
    16320 149
    Porsche Sticky Child seats in a 991 11/29/18 3:43 PM
    RCA
    14689 35
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet 2/18/19 11:28 AM
    RCA
    10247 127
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 2/18/19 8:51 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    3265 60
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 1/4/19 7:02 PM
    Topspeed
    486927 4255
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 2/19/19 11:40 PM
    4trac
    422551 5222
    Porsche 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) Thread Closed 11/29/18 11:38 AM
    RCA
    318068 3195
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/31/18 2:19 AM
    DJM48
    286709 2598
    Porsche Cayman GT4 2/19/19 8:00 PM
    dreamcar
    280840 2760
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 1/30/19 3:10 AM
    ha
    219612 2777
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 1/17/19 8:13 PM
    GoHardGT3RS
    195628 1789
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 2/18/19 10:28 AM
    RCA
    191662 3355
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 12/17/18 12:42 PM
    RCA
    157831 2491
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 8/31/18 10:25 AM
    WAY
    144625 757
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 5/22/18 9:16 PM
    RCA
    113026 789
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 5/3/18 7:52 PM
    CGX car nut
    107937 871
    Porsche Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 2/18/19 1:00 PM
    RCA
    99155 1370
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 12/7/18 10:15 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    68851 673
    Others Tesla Roadster 2/20/19 9:32 PM
    CGX car nut
    57471 1726
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models 11/3/18 11:09 AM
    bluelines
    48439 477
    Others Tesla Model X Thread Closed 2/23/18 3:41 PM
    RCA
    43580 1122
    AMG AMG GT R 11/30/18 4:10 PM
    RCA
    43145 605
    Lambo Aventador and SV 11/19/18 8:31 AM
    RCA
    40870 472
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo S Exclusive Series (2017) 12/4/18 3:17 PM
    BiTurbo
    40629 650
    AMG Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 2/14/19 1:44 PM
    RCA
    40297 387
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Porsche Carrera T 12/13/18 2:27 PM
    RCA
    39226 804
    269 items found, displaying 1 to 30.