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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Walter Röhrl tests the Taycan: “Performance like never before”

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    (14 January 2019)

    This is the second encounter for rally legend Walter Röhrl and the Porsche Taycan. Shortly before climbing in, he seemed to be about as tense as the engineers assigned to monitor the test ride – but that changed very quickly. The Newsroom brings you an exclusive test drive.

    His first ride in the new Taycan was a few months ago. Even on just a short lap the car still left its mark, both on the development team to which he belonged at the time, and on Walter Röhrl himself: “It’s a very exciting time because technology is moving forward at an incredible rate. I’m anxious to see what the car can do compared with last time.”

    The black-camouflaged Taycan almost disappeared from view, just moments after the convoy left the main gate of the Porsche development centre in Weissach; the camera team’s Cayenne lost the struggle to keep pace as it immediately became clear that Walter meant business. He wanted to test the vehicle to the limit.

    A few kilometres later we caught up with him at a car park in the woods, where he had stopped to wait for us. The look on his face spoke volumes.

    Walter Röhrl: "The Taycan goes so well at such speed, really tremendous.“


    What was your first impression?

    WR: It’s crazy. In all my years of rallying, I’ve never experienced such performance. The Taycan goes so well at such speed, really tremendous.

    How does the Porsche Taycan handle?

    I’m surprised because you barely notice the weight any more. The engineers have done a great job on the tuning and have made excellent use of the low centre of gravity. The steering and even the brakes handle superbly.

    In what ways could you detect the Porsche DNA? 

    If I had to drive it blindfolded, I would still know immediately that I was sitting in a Porsche. The weight and the feel of the steering – and yes even the brakes, which are far more difficult to get right because of the combination of recuperation and conventional brakes – they’re all right on the money. And that’s what a Porsche should be all about.

    The rally legend praises the new Taycan

    We were then joined in the car park by Robert Meier, complete vehicle project manager, and Ingo Albers, chassis director for the Taycan product line, who came to discuss the vehicle with Röhrl. Their pride in response to the rally legend’s comments during the interview was clear to see, and in conversation they addressed every tiny detail. The discussion quickly moved on from brake response to general topics such as battery cooling system, heat exchange for interior heating, and average heat efficiency in a wide range of driving profiles.

    The fact that Walter Röhrl addressed the issue of electromobility was notable, and he had plenty of questions on the topic ready for the team. He was certainly impressed by the answers he was given, long before market launch, and it was really striking to see how excited he was already about the product, even though it is still in the development phase.

    The Taycan can be recharged up to a range of 100 kilometers in four minutes


    What impresses you the most about the Taycan? 

    WR:  How little I actually miss the engine noise. I would never have expected that the lack of any sound from the drive system could mean no loss of performance. In fact I really like the quietness of the Taycan; it’s something of an experience in itself.

    In comparison with a conventional driving experience, how is the Taycan most different? 

    Simply in the performance. Even in my fastest rally cars, I have never experienced performance like it – and the immediate response, this instant reaction that makes me smile every time.

    Where does Walter Röhrl see room for development between now and series production?

    Not a great deal on the car itself, as I think they are already on the way to delivering a fantastic product. However, my opinion is that they need to get infrastructure in place quickly, because I think I would go mad if someone was in front of me at the pump and I had to wait.

    Röhrl is happy to hear that the 800 V architecture of the new Taycan provides him with up to 350 kW charging capacity, as electromobility would appeal to him personally too, if he could get 100 kilometres out of a four-minute charge, and so cover long distances without having to stop and charge for hours. 

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    Press link: http://newsroom.porsche.com/en/products/porsche-taycan-test-drive-walter-roehrl-electric-sports-car-electromobility-16801.html

    Video link: http://newstv.porsche.com/porschevideos/66634_en_3000000.mp4 

    Smiley 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Performance will be impressive, no doubt.  The design?  The car (heavily camouflaged I’m sure) looks ridiculously like a Panamera.  Customers will expect an exciting design for this unique new Porsche. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    From the beginning, they had always used the Pamamera silhouette to disguise the Mission E. Nothing new there.


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I give a rat's ass about what someone says who gets a Porsche paycheck. enlightened

    I really love WR, fantastic driver, petrol in his blood 100% but he is still working for Porsche. 

    If Porsche wants to know how good the Taycan feels, they should give it to me for a test-drive. Honest opinion...probably the reason I will never get one...at least not officially. indecision


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:

    I give a rat's ass about what someone says who gets a Porsche paycheck. enlightened

    I really love WR, fantastic driver, petrol in his blood 100% but he is still working for Porsche. 

    If Porsche wants to know how good the Taycan feels, they should give it to me for a test-drive. Honest opinion...probably the reason I will never get one...at least not officially. indecision

    Yeah they will give you one to test and a nice pay check to silence you in case there are any flaws...that will definitely work Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Italo:
    RC:

    I give a rat's ass about what someone says who gets a Porsche paycheck. enlightened

    I really love WR, fantastic driver, petrol in his blood 100% but he is still working for Porsche. 

    If Porsche wants to know how good the Taycan feels, they should give it to me for a test-drive. Honest opinion...probably the reason I will never get one...at least not officially. indecision

    Yeah they will give you one to test and a nice pay check to silence you in case there are any flaws...that will definitely work Smiley

    Rumours from Porsche indicate that they seriously considered whether RC could be "bought".... and they concluded he could; he only had an Audi after all.  Then news came in about the Lamborghini.... and they gave up.  Fact.  Smiley  


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    4trac:
    Italo:
    RC:

    I give a rat's ass about what someone says who gets a Porsche paycheck. enlightened

    I really love WR, fantastic driver, petrol in his blood 100% but he is still working for Porsche. 

    If Porsche wants to know how good the Taycan feels, they should give it to me for a test-drive. Honest opinion...probably the reason I will never get one...at least not officially. indecision

    Yeah they will give you one to test and a nice pay check to silence you in case there are any flaws...that will definitely work Smiley

    Rumours from Porsche indicate that they seriously considered whether RC could be "bought".... and they concluded he could; he only had an Audi after all.  Then news came in about the Lamborghini.... and they gave up.  Fact.  Smiley  

    He has an Audi as far as I know. What is this Lambo talk?  🤓. Perhaps the Lambo is THE payoff. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Leawood911:
    4trac:
    Italo:
    RC:

    I give a rat's ass about what someone says who gets a Porsche paycheck. enlightened

    I really love WR, fantastic driver, petrol in his blood 100% but he is still working for Porsche. 

    If Porsche wants to know how good the Taycan feels, they should give it to me for a test-drive. Honest opinion...probably the reason I will never get one...at least not officially. indecision

    Yeah they will give you one to test and a nice pay check to silence you in case there are any flaws...that will definitely work Smiley

    Rumours from Porsche indicate that they seriously considered whether RC could be "bought".... and they concluded he could; he only had an Audi after all.  Then news came in about the Lamborghini.... and they gave up.  Fact.  Smiley  

    He has an Audi as far as I know. What is this Lambo talk?  🤓. Perhaps the Lambo is THE payoff. 

    Leawood you are a tad behind in the RC world... as he has hinted several times already to you, he has a Performante on order.  Though, confusingly, it was mainly announced in his R8 review thread... of course, this is Rennteam so all normal.  There, you are up to date... you're welcome.  Smiley


    --

     

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    4trac:
    Leawood911:
    4trac:
    Italo:
    RC:

    I give a rat's ass about what someone says who gets a Porsche paycheck. enlightened

    I really love WR, fantastic driver, petrol in his blood 100% but he is still working for Porsche. 

    If Porsche wants to know how good the Taycan feels, they should give it to me for a test-drive. Honest opinion...probably the reason I will never get one...at least not officially. indecision

    Yeah they will give you one to test and a nice pay check to silence you in case there are any flaws...that will definitely work Smiley

    Rumours from Porsche indicate that they seriously considered whether RC could be "bought".... and they concluded he could; he only had an Audi after all.  Then news came in about the Lamborghini.... and they gave up.  Fact.  Smiley  

    He has an Audi as far as I know. What is this Lambo talk?  🤓. Perhaps the Lambo is THE payoff. 

    Leawood you are a tad behind in the RC world... as he has hinted several times already to you, he has a Performante on order.  Though, confusingly, it was mainly announced in his R8 review thread... of course, this is Rennteam so all normal.  There, you are up to date... you're welcome.  Smiley


    --

     

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

     

    Okay. You got me. At times you guys joke with RC about his R8. Well for the last few weeks my fun has been complete and repeated fake ignorance of the Lambo.  Shhhh don’t tell RC.  I want another recap. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    4trac:
    Italo:
    RC:

    I give a rat's ass about what someone says who gets a Porsche paycheck. enlightened

    I really love WR, fantastic driver, petrol in his blood 100% but he is still working for Porsche. 

    If Porsche wants to know how good the Taycan feels, they should give it to me for a test-drive. Honest opinion...probably the reason I will never get one...at least not officially. indecision

    Yeah they will give you one to test and a nice pay check to silence you in case there are any flaws...that will definitely work Smiley

    Rumours from Porsche indicate that they seriously considered whether RC could be "bought".... and they concluded he could; he only had an Audi after all.  Then news came in about the Lamborghini.... and they gave up.  Fact.  Smiley  

    Smiley Actually, I think Porsche is pretty disappointed in me, if I matter at all. Smiley

    Had a very nice contact at a very high level up the chain but after I got the R8 and told him...never heard of him again. Smiley Also, I got to (officially, couldn't fully talk about it though) see and experience many interesting things, including a personal (me only) Weissach visit with an amazing access to the 911 development team but selling my 991.1 Turbo S after only 6 months certainly didn't make a good impression. No more such (official) stuff after that. Smiley

    Bottom line is: I do not expect to ever get officially invited to drive the Taycan but I will certainly get the chance to do so at some point. Smiley

    Lamborghini is a bit different: When they learned about my involvement with Rennteam and the press accreditation, I got a few benefits, like an invitation to the Geneva autoshow and a possible pickup of my car in Sant'Agata Bolognese. I always loved smaller companies, my contact(s) to Porsche were amazing in the past, the smaller Porsche was.

    To set things straight: I am an official member of the car journalists community in Germany, with press card and everything, not just some guy on a car forum. The advantages are pretty small though, like I said...if they don't really like you too much or if you aren't interesting enough for them, they just overlook you. Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

     

    Did you see this post?

    He clearly says that he thinks the "E-Car" is the absolute wrong way. Quite interesting after the positive review kind of demolishing the Tycan and all other E-Cars at the end of the thread!

    WRTycan.JPG


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Lars997:

     

    Did you see this post?

    He clearly says that he thinks the "E-Car" is the absolute wrong way. Quite interesting after the positive review kind of demolishing the Tycan and all other E-Cars at the end of the thread!

    WRTycan.JPG

    No, I didn't but I know why I always liked Walter Röhrl. Smiley Smiley

    Seems that he is more honest than I could imagine.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    What does he say?


    --

    2016 Cayman GT4 - 1992 964 Carrera 2 - 2016 Macan S Diesel - 2018 Mini JCW


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Mikla:

    What does he say?

    He basically praises the Taycan and Porsche for building such a fantastic car but at the end, he says that in his opinion, EVs are the wrong way to go...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    And he is not wrong


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:

    And he is not wrong

    Of course he isn't...he is f.ck.ng Walter Röhrl. Smiley

    He was the guy who basically called the Smart a wheelchair with an engine. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    My buddy BUILDS wheelchairs, he can do one that's better looking than a Smart.


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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:

    My buddy BUILDS wheelchairs, he can do one that's better looking than a Smart.

    But is it faster? Smiley(probably yes... SmileySmiley)


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The wheel positioning at the photo is sublime....


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:

    And he is not wrong

    I love Walter Rohrl, I love internal combustion engines and hope there will always be options available for enthusiasts, but to deny that the future is EV (whether battery, fuel cell, or other) seems silly at this point. It may take decades to make the shift, but the advantages are clear.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    trip:
    Whoopsy:

    And he is not wrong

    I love Walter Rohrl, I love internal combustion engines and hope there will always be options available for enthusiasts, but to deny that the future is EV (whether battery, fuel cell, or other) seems silly at this point. It may take decades to make the shift, but the advantages are clear.

    Not really since combustion engines would have a bright future if new technologies would be applied and/or developed. We still haven't figured out the issues with future EVs, like charging infrastructure, battery waste disposal and replacements, etc.. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    trip:
    Whoopsy:

    And he is not wrong

    I love Walter Rohrl, I love internal combustion engines and hope there will always be options available for enthusiasts, but to deny that the future is EV (whether battery, fuel cell, or other) seems silly at this point. It may take decades to make the shift, but the advantages are clear.

    Not really since combustion engines would have a bright future if new technologies would be applied and/or developed. We still haven't figured out the issues with future EVs, like charging infrastructure, battery waste disposal and replacements, etc.. 

    Really - whether you believe in climate change or remain skeptical of the science, the masses are embracing the idea of lowering their carbon footprint. The most obvious way for people to do this, and the most outward display of good "eco citizenship" is to drive a 0 emission vehicle (ie clear advantage of EV). This starts with wealthy consumers (high-end Tesla early adopters, Taycan, E-tron) and will continue to migrate down the wealth ladder.

    I am aware of the drawbacks of EV, including use of rare earth metals and charging infrastructure limitations. However, for a technology that became commercially viable less than 10 years ago, the speed at which these drawbacks are being overcome is impressive.

    If I was permitted to trade the stock, I would be short Tesla due to increasing competition and ridiculous valuation. That said, I am willing to make a very large bet that EV will continue to replace ICE for personal automobiles. Given the installed base of ICE, this will take time, but the shift is happening faster than most appreciate. In addition to 0 emissions potential (if charged on renewable energy, which will also continue to gain share), there are significant performance and packaging advantages for EV that will only grow as the technology matures.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    trip:
    Whoopsy:

    And he is not wrong

    I love Walter Rohrl, I love internal combustion engines and hope there will always be options available for enthusiasts, but to deny that the future is EV (whether battery, fuel cell, or other) seems silly at this point. It may take decades to make the shift, but the advantages are clear.

     

    For one, when EV really becomes the present not future, Walter will be six feet under, or close to it. So, driving and enjoying a car will not be the thing that's on his mind then.

    Actually come to think of it, I will likely be close to that point too when EV really takes over the market, like how fuel injection displaced carburetors. 

    The current EV tech, lithium battery, is full of drawbacks, it won't last. It needs a quantum leap in technology to make it viable. A full gas tank will not spontaneously combust, nor will a full tank of hydrogen. But a full battery pack can and will. That's dangerous. The electricity has to come from somewhere, and currently, that environmental impact is just being shoved up stream to the power plants, which, is the most dirty of all emissions. Majority of the world's electric plants are not using renewable source, they are still burning fossil fuels, so a EV is basically just as dirty as a gasoline car. At least gasoline/diesel cars have catalytic converters and particle filters to clean up their own emissions, power plants don't. 

    And Lithium battery is heavy. that's the 2nd drawback.

    Third one is the performance of the battery is high;y dependent on temperature, it may work well in temperate climates, but too hot and too cold the range goes out the window.

    City power grid wasn't designed for those high draw applications, nor was power plants sized to provide such a load, it's still manageable right now, but with a higher adoption rate of battery EV, the grid will struggle to supply enough electricity. 

    I actually think hydrogen fuel cells, will be the future, battery EV is just a stop gap measure. 

    Fuel cells produces clean emissions, basically just water at the car level. A full tank of hydrogen, will not spontaneously combust like a battery pack, it still not as safe as a tank of gasoline though, as a exploding hydrogen tank is a worry.

    It will need a new infrastructure to delver compress hydrogen, sort of, as current gas stations can be converted to hydrogen pumps and a fleet of tankers can delivery the hydrogen to stations just like the current gasoline system. 

    With 'gas' stations as plentiful as the current fossil fuel stations, the range anxiety is completely out the window, no one will worry about it or knock it as a tank refill will just be like filling up a gas tank.

    The strain on the power grid is also gone, fuel cell cars don't need to draw extra current from the power grid. 

    don't really see a down side to fuel cell cars.................


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:
    trip:
    Whoopsy:

    And he is not wrong

    I love Walter Rohrl, I love internal combustion engines and hope there will always be options available for enthusiasts, but to deny that the future is EV (whether battery, fuel cell, or other) seems silly at this point. It may take decades to make the shift, but the advantages are clear.

     

    For one, when EV really becomes the present not future, Walter will be six feet under, or close to it. So, driving and enjoying a car will not be the thing that's on his mind then.

    Actually come to think of it, I will likely be close to that point too when EV really takes over the market, like how fuel injection displaced carburetors. 

    The current EV tech, lithium battery, is full of drawbacks, it won't last. It needs a quantum leap in technology to make it viable. A full gas tank will not spontaneously combust, nor will a full tank of hydrogen. But a full battery pack can and will. That's dangerous. The electricity has to come from somewhere, and currently, that environmental impact is just being shoved up stream to the power plants, which, is the most dirty of all emissions. Majority of the world's electric plants are not using renewable source, they are still burning fossil fuels, so a EV is basically just as dirty as a gasoline car. At least gasoline/diesel cars have catalytic converters and particle filters to clean up their own emissions, power plants don't. 

    And Lithium battery is heavy. that's the 2nd drawback.

    Third one is the performance of the battery is high;y dependent on temperature, it may work well in temperate climates, but too hot and too cold the range goes out the window.

    City power grid wasn't designed for those high draw applications, nor was power plants sized to provide such a load, it's still manageable right now, but with a higher adoption rate of battery EV, the grid will struggle to supply enough electricity. 

    I actually think hydrogen fuel cells, will be the future, battery EV is just a stop gap measure. 

    Fuel cells produces clean emissions, basically just water at the car level. A full tank of hydrogen, will not spontaneously combust like a battery pack, it still not as safe as a tank of gasoline though, as a exploding hydrogen tank is a worry.

    It will need a new infrastructure to delver compress hydrogen, sort of, as current gas stations can be converted to hydrogen pumps and a fleet of tankers can delivery the hydrogen to stations just like the current gasoline system. 

    With 'gas' stations as plentiful as the current fossil fuel stations, the range anxiety is completely out the window, no one will worry about it or knock it as a tank refill will just be like filling up a gas tank.

    The strain on the power grid is also gone, fuel cell cars don't need to draw extra current from the power grid. 

    don't really see a down side to fuel cell cars.................

    I think it will happen faster than that based on current adoption and inherent logic of the technology (less maintenance, better packaging and center of gravity, instant torque, ability to generate power source locally or semi-locally, etc.). Neither of us know for sure, but I think we at least agree some permutation of EVs will continue to take share.

    I agree battery tech needs to be improved, and so does VW, which is why they announced a $50B investment over the next 5 years (just one example, other large car makers clearly voting with their investment dollars but not in the same magnitude).

    I mentioned fuel cell in my original post, and consider this a permutation of "EV" for this argument. I am not convinced it will win out over the evolution of battery packs (which are rapidly improving). Regardless of form, EV will continue to take share from ICE. I just hope Porsche still makes NA ICE GT3's by the time I can afford one (I am running as fast as I can to get there Smiley)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    We're still in the disappointment section in regards to EV vehicles.


    --

    Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Last time I read about it, mass production of hydrogen was a big issue. The process is not green at all and also it consumes much more energy than the actual energy resulted/stored in the hydrogen produced...


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Considering the industrial production of hydrogen, and using current best processes for water electrolysis (PEM or alkaline electrolysis) which have an effective electrical efficiency of 70-82%,[40][41][42] producing 1 kg of hydrogen (which has a specific energy of 143 MJ/kg or about 40 kWh/kg) requires 50–55 kWh of electricity.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I also believe hydrogen is the future, especially for aviation industry (easy to convert a jet engine to run on hydrogen and anyway the industry has all the safety required handling dangerous fuels in place plus weight is not an issue, just at first flight range will be reduced because the same volume of hydrogen has less energy stored than fossil fuel) BUT for that to happen we need a breakthrough in hydrogen mass production: we need to find a green way to produce it and using less energy (not using 50-55kw to produce 40kw).

    BTW also converting a natural aspirated car engine to run on hydrogen is much less expensive than making the car a hybrid...


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Pentium:

    Last time I read about it, mass production of hydrogen was a big issue. The process is not green at all and also it consumes much more energy than the actual energy resulted/stored in the hydrogen produced...

    That may be true if you were talking about power for the electrical grid, but is not relevant to energy needed for MOBILITY.   Society places a value on mobility in all forms, hence the lower efficiencies (which is true about fossil fuels too...) just becomes part of the cost of mobility - users will decide how much of it they can afford.  


    --

     

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    According to Automibilwochte and other news channels Porsche will dubble the production of the Taycan to 40.00 units per year.

    https://www.automobilwoche.de/article/20190121/BCONLINE/190119904/exklusiv--sportwagenbauer-porsche-verdoppelt-taycan-stueckzahl...


     
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