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    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    Ziggy said:
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    reginos said:
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    Ferdie said:
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    REALZEUS said:
    Funny how this test contradicts other tests that indicate that the 560-4 is a seriously quick and planted machine. I am referring to to the recent CAR PCOTY and not only that of course.



    I agree and have a hard time understanding this. I'd like to add some comments based on SA's test documentation to clarify the lap time:

    a. the newly-introduced bushings on the first and second press car caused, according to v. Saurma, a very instable car during load changes, the third car, equipped with the traditional elastomer bushings, was much more civilized in this regard

    b. for some reason, the ABS system did not perfectly operate with the Pirelli sport tires, obviously lacking appropriate adaption. The somewhat longer brake distances were seen as the main reason for the resulting Nurburgring laptime. According to SA, the car would have even beaten the Superleggera's 7.46 otherwise.

    c. the car's handling must have been more demanding than, as Kreso stated, on the R8 despite similiar suspension geometry.

    Still, I cannot see the complaints I have read above. After all, unlike the Scuderia or GT2, I would not view the LP560-4 as a track tool so, in my personal opinion, the Nurburgring performance is somewhat negligible to me. Unlike the other two, it is not especially aimned at that purpose.



    Two comments on your reasonable points above:

    1. Lamborghini should have not released a car that had not been developed fully and thoroughly tested in all areas. It is not a supermini but a supercar and even small details count.

    2. NBR may be officially a track but really it is the nearest to a demanding road route. So behaviour and performance is significant for any road car too. They even test SUVs there.



    Totally agree with your point 2.



    Quite right. And we need more independent tests there. Depending entirely on SA for credible Ring times is imprudent.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    The Audi R8 V10 will probably perform better during the Supertest and presumably for a much lower price, meaning the LP560-4 will have very low credibility among the enthusiasts.

    Besides the track has been faster since being re-surfaced, which was not the case for the 7.55's F430 (if I remember correctly) and the 7.54's 997tt (I am not sure for the 7.52).
    This also brings some perspective.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    1. Lamborghini should have not released a car that had not been developed fully and thoroughly tested in all areas. It is not a supermini but a supercar and even small details count.



    That's what surprised me as well. Not sure why the adaption of ABS to those Corsa tires has been flawed, I could only imagine that it has been a spontaneous and un-proven decision. Considering the amount of testing by the whole Audi group on the Nurburgring, this would make a bad excuse however.

    However, I do not believe that the problem lies within SportAuto, especially if one considers the very competitive HHR laptime. According to the article, the car used the std. suspension but I'd be happy about Kreso's information on that account.

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    2. NBR may be officially a track but really it is the nearest to a demanding road route. So behaviour and performance is significant for any road car too. They even test SUVs there.



    Indeed, but one should not forget that, even if the car did not perform to its fullest, we still see a solid sub-eight minute laptime as a result. If the car is demanding or simply agile at the limit is beyond my perseption.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
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    REALZEUS said:
    Funny how this test contradicts other tests that indicate that the 560-4 is a seriously quick and planted machine. I am referring to to the recent CAR PCOTY and not only that of course.



    Sportauto may have some credibility problems. Are we to believe they are they only ones that know how to drive and test a car?



    Yes, indeed. Their test results are the most relevant by far. This car seems to be flawed



    This result does put a question mark on SA credibility. And that is/was their major asset.

    Reason will soon dictate that a consensus of at least ten tests by reputable publications replace SA as the ultimate arbiter of performance. Obviously any one test can be skewed for a number of reasons.



    I must admit that I agree with you to some point. I even told that to my friend who works for Motorpresse(company that publishe both SA and AMS amoung other magazines).

    Why?

    Well Audi R8 test results recently are clear sing that something is not entirely all right...

    1. R8 Supertest results: Ring 8:04min(with standard suspension, Ceramics and Corsa tires), Hockenheim 1:12,7min(standard suspension, Ceramics and Corsas).

    2. In last issue(as I was told month ago and I wrote it here about 20 times but, some members judge it in moronic way) Sport Auto publishe comparison test between R8 and 997.2C4S... This example of R8 achieved 1:13,4min on Hockenheim with Magnetic Ride, standard brakes and standard P Zero R01 tires! Do you know what that means? That with Corsas or Michelin Cups this R8 could achieve around 1:11,7-1:11,5min in Hockenheim!!! Since both tires are around 1.7s-2.0s faster on Hockenheim.

    3. AutoBild Sportscars Edition published Ring comparison between R8 and 997.2C4S in latest issue. Driver was Sascha Bert(FIA GT3 Race driver). R8 achieved 8:01,9min with Magnetic Ride, Ceramics and standard P Zero R01 tires! Way faster then good old Horst(8:04min for R8 with standard suspension, Ceramics and Corsa tires!)... Is it possible that Magnetic Ride suspension is indeed 10s faster on the Ring(since R-Compound tires are about 8s-10s faster on the Ring per lap)? NO. So, take Sascha Bert time 8:01,9min and shave 8s-10s for tires(add Corsas or Cups on his R8) and you will get 7.54min-7.52min for R8!! Just remember that Audi unofficial claim is 7.50min(driver Frank Stippler) for R8.

    I still belive in SA and HvS. Just, in my book their credibility is not full any more...

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    I still belive in SA and HvS. Just, in my book their credibility is not full any more...



    A question. Is the number of laps they do for each car (in order to achieve their best time) the same? Either within the test of a single magazine, or between magazines?

    IMO this is also a significant parameter.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    I still belive in SA and HvS. Just, in my book their credibility is not full any more...



    A question. Is the number of laps they do for each car (in order to achieve their best time) the same? Either within the test of a single magazine, or between magazines?

    IMO this is also a significant parameter.



    Pretty much. Ring-max three laps because of tires and brakes. Hockenheim, Nurburgring GP and Oschersleben-about five laps max, sometimes up to seven or eight.

    You know-telemetry data do not lie but, driver input(about the way car feels) is also very important.

    Example-Sascha Bert drove both R8 and 997.2C4S on the Ring. He did not like SPASM(faster on the Ring in softer-standard mode) and PDK(gear ratios totally wrong for track driving according to his input. On the other hand Horst von Saurma from Sport Auto praised PDK. Both agreed that PDK work very best in full auto Sport Plus mode for the track but, Sascha Bert was not impressed with PDK at all). R8 was faster on the Ring with Sport mode(naturally) of Magnetic Ride and gear ratios are very good for the track driving(but, also for the road) according to Bert input.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    I still belive in SA and HvS. Just, in my book their credibility is not full any more...



    A question. Is the number of laps they do for each car (in order to achieve their best time) the same? Either within the test of a single magazine, or between magazines?

    IMO this is also a significant parameter.



    Pretty much. Ring-max three laps because of tires and brakes. Hockenheim, Nurburgring GP and Oschersleben-about five laps max, sometimes up to seven or eight.

    You know-telemetry data do not lie but, driver input(about the way car feels) is also very important.

    Example-Sascha Bert drove both R8 and 997.2C4S on the Ring. He did not like SPASM(faster on the Ring in softer-standard mode) and PDK(gear ratios totally wrong for track driving according to his input. On the other hand Horst von Saurma from Sport Auto praised PDK. Both agreed that PDK work very best in full auto Sport Plus mode for the track but, Sascha Bert was not impressed with PDK at all). R8 was faster on the Ring with Sport mode(naturally) of Magnetic Ride and gear ratios are very good for the track driving(but, also for the road) according to Bert input.


    Thanks for the info!

    Also to add to your point of "how the car feels", some cars like the R8 for example, being mid-engined and better riding, are easier to drive fast for a normal driver than say, the Carrera. So an expert driver may be as fast or faster in the Porsche (in spite of the lower HP) but this will not be very relevant to the average owner who will most probably struggle to keep up in a similar situation.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Those units were having really, really serious problems or maybe HvS is not really that fast around the Nurburgring. An old Japanese racecar driver was almost as fast as him in a car with half the power!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdGoFhs1pf4

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    0 - 200km/h 11.6

    It looks like another straight line supercar (turbocharged) in the future

    Too heavy 1,712kg
    http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/1108_rt_lambo_dp.pdf

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    REALZEUS said:
    Funny how this test contradicts other tests that indicate that the 560-4 is a seriously quick and planted machine. I am referring to to the recent CAR PCOTY and not only that of course.



    Sportauto may have some credibility problems. Are we to believe they are they only ones that know how to drive and test a car?



    Yes, indeed. Their test results are the most relevant by far. This car seems to be flawed



    This result does put a question mark on SA credibility. And that is/was their major asset.

    Reason will soon dictate that a consensus of at least ten tests by reputable publications replace SA as the ultimate arbiter of performance. Obviously any one test can be skewed for a number of reasons.



    You don't honestly expect them to write in detail about the specific problems of three (!) different test cars just to make a car look bad... They could just post some bad test results. Nobody would notice

    Several other Lamborghini models produced good results in the past (Gallardo SL, old Gallardo, LP640). The LP560-4 is the first Lamborghini with bad results. And they even tried three times - just to give Lamborghini every chance possible. The 997TT did not get this kind of attention...

    What else should they do?

    The point is: this test result highlights how misleading it can be to post 10-test-overviews copied from the Internet to validate a car's performance. The Supertest is the benchmark

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    I still belive in SA and HvS. Just, in my book their credibility is not full any more...



    A question. Is the number of laps they do for each car (in order to achieve their best time) the same? Either within the test of a single magazine, or between magazines?

    IMO this is also a significant parameter.



    Pretty much. Ring-max three laps because of tires and brakes. Hockenheim, Nurburgring GP and Oschersleben-about five laps max, sometimes up to seven or eight.

    You know-telemetry data do not lie but, driver input(about the way car feels) is also very important.

    Example-Sascha Bert drove both R8 and 997.2C4S on the Ring. He did not like SPASM(faster on the Ring in softer-standard mode) and PDK(gear ratios totally wrong for track driving according to his input. On the other hand Horst von Saurma from Sport Auto praised PDK. Both agreed that PDK work very best in full auto Sport Plus mode for the track but, Sascha Bert was not impressed with PDK at all). R8 was faster on the Ring with Sport mode(naturally) of Magnetic Ride and gear ratios are very good for the track driving(but, also for the road) according to Bert input.



    It is safe to say that they did a LOT more laps in the LP560-4 than they usually do. Three different test cars...

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    That with Corsas or Michelin Cups this R8 could achieve around 1:11,7-1:11,5min in Hockenheim!!! Since both tires are around 1.7s-2.0s faster on Hockenheim.




    Kreso, are you sure about the relative performance of PZero Hero and Corsa /Cup in HHR? I would not expect a difference of 2s. Is there a test result that supports your theory? The R8 has the same PZeros as the 599GTB, right?

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Markus,
    P Zero R01 on R8(standard tires together with Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 R01) is similar to 599 P Zero BUT, not the same-compound on 599 Zero's is little bit softer overall...

    Regarding your question-internal Audi sales material says that Corsa Evoluzione is almost 10s faster on the Ring then P Zero R01. Stippler said that difference on Hockenheim is 1.7s...

    Also Michelin Cup tires are another 0.1s-0.2s faster on Hockenheim then Corsas.

    Just do this math little bit...

    Horst von Saurma Audi R8(standard suspension, Ceramics, Corsas) Ring time 8:04min Sport Auto Supertest

    Sascha Bert Audi R8(Magnetic Ride, Ceramics, P Zero R01) Ring time 8:01,9min Auto Bild Sportscar Edition

    BTW, I am NOT fully happy with Sport Auto LP560-4 Supertest results... One of the test cars were(one of first two) achieved much better test results then 997 Turbo on Oschersleben in hands of other race driver prior to HvS put its hands on it...

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Many/most enthusiasts view Sport Autp as just another magazine. i am starting to agree with this point of view.

    We really need a more credible and accurate way of determining the fastest Ring time of which a car is capable. Perhaps some kind of system where an independent authority verifies that the car is stock and ensures standard procedures, and allows the factory to use its own driver.

    The obvious variable would be the drivers, but they would be the best that the factory can find for their car and thus would ensure that the time is the fastest of which the car is capable.

    Clearly HvS has too big a burden on his shoulders as the world's ultimate authority on Ring times.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    "The Supertest is the benchmark"

    Except when you don't agree with the SA results for the CSL...

    I would say SA used to be the benchmark but its credibility is now being questioned.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Well, I do not think that the Ring is that much of a performance standard after all. Way too overated in my opinion.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    AUM said:

    I would say SA used to be the benchmark but its credibility is now being questioned.



    Why?

    This Supertest (LP560-4, similar to the 997TT Supertest, BTW) highlights why the Supertest is the only realiable benchmark (to date):

    - the HHR time is OK
    - the NBR time is not OK.

    If one would just look at comparison tables as you posted them before in various threads (GTR etc.) one could come to the conclusion that the LP560-4 performs well. This is also inidcated by the HHR time which is at least on par with where optimistic/relaistic expectations might have been (1s quicker than 997TT, 1s slower than Scuderia, .5s faster than LP640 etc.). 1.11 for a car like the LP560-4 is absolutely OK.

    HOWEVER, if you take a closer look (and that's what Sportauto does - in contrast to all other LP560-4 tests so far (!)) certain problems emerge when the LP560-4 is tested on a more difficult and complex test track (NBR). Sportauto describes in detail (!) the various problems of the car. SportAuto tries three different test cars.

    All this highlights that crappy summary test tables found somewhere in the Internet do not help in evaluating a car's performance. The Supertest is the only relevant benchmark - maybe some other magazine will come up with a similar comprehensive and professional test format some day in the future. Until then there is not substitute.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    To me this only reinforces the Supertest. Any other magazine would have only tested the first car and called it a day without digging deeper and going over the posible reasons and tetsing various test cars, or would have falsified results so that the results would have been "as expected" and nobody would complain.

    SA instead went ahead and published these results, no matter what the results were and the consecuences, they have had no problems with other Lambo models so its not a driver thing, and they were not satisfied with the unexpected results of the first car and double checked it by testing two other cars back to back. What more can you ask for...

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    To me this only reinforces the Supertest. Any other magazine would have only tested the first car and called it a day without digging deeper and going over the posible reasons and tetsing various test cars, or would have falsified results so that the results would have been "as expected" and nobody would complain.

    SA instead went ahead and published these results, no matter what the results were and the consecuences, they have had no problems with other Lambo models so its not a driver thing, and they were not satisfied with the unexpected results of the first car and double checked it by testing two other cars back to back. What more can you ask for...



    100%

    Also, Sportauto is the only magazine that combines standardized tests on a typical GP track (HHR) and on a extremely complex track simulating real-world street conditions (NBR). The Supertest of the LP560-4 (as the Supertest of the 997TT before) highlights how important it is to test ALL qualities of supercars. Just testing the performance on an even test track does not reveal the full character of a car

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    To me this only reinforces the Supertest. Any other magazine would have only tested the first car and called it a day without digging deeper and going over the posible reasons and tetsing various test cars, or would have falsified results so that the results would have been "as expected" and nobody would complain.

    SA instead went ahead and published these results, no matter what the results were and the consecuences, they have had no problems with other Lambo models so its not a driver thing, and they were not satisfied with the unexpected results of the first car and double checked it by testing two other cars back to back. What more can you ask for...



    100%

    Also, Sportauto is the only magazine that combines standardized tests on a typical GP track (HHR) and on a extremely complex track simulating real-world street conditions (NBR). The Supertest of the LP560-4 (as the Supertest of the 997TT before) highlights how important it is to test ALL qualities of supercars. Just testing the performance on an even test track does not reveal the full character of a car



    I agree with this. The NBR is the best measure of sports cars. And I agree that SA is the most comprehensive test to date.

    Nevertheless SA credibility is being questioned and because of this many will discount results they don't agree with (CSL, R8, etc). BTW there is no logic in claiming SA drove the CSL faster than it can go!

    SA is the best we have but it is not good enough and we need a better system for measuring Ring times in such a way that no argument is possible.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Just there is one big difference lately-huge difference in overall opinion about some Sportscars between UK Mags like EVO or Drivers Republic and German Sport Auto. Porsche 997 Gt2 is clear example here-UK mags absolutely do not like it and Sport Auto loves it...

    For me problematic result is 7.50min for 997.2CS in HvS hands. It is pretty strange that HvS is as fast as Rohrl... Just look at telemetry data about that wonder lap-997.2CS is despite SPASM, PCCB and Cups one of the fastest cars in corners on the market according to HvS lap. Well, in my opinion it is not. How is it possible that one other driver do not like 997.2C4S SPASM setup and PDK for the Ring(race driver Sascha Bert) and HvS praised it soo much?

    Bert liked R8 Magnetic Ride much more then 997.2 SPASM. He also said that PDK gear ratios are totally wrong for the Ring. HvS claimed that PDK is very good...

    For me after recent results SA is still the one but, I do not belive in their test results 100% any more...

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    To me this only reinforces the Supertest. Any other magazine would have only tested the first car and called it a day without digging deeper and going over the posible reasons and tetsing various test cars, or would have falsified results so that the results would have been "as expected" and nobody would complain.

    SA instead went ahead and published these results, no matter what the results were and the consecuences, they have had no problems with other Lambo models so its not a driver thing, and they were not satisfied with the unexpected results of the first car and double checked it by testing two other cars back to back. What more can you ask for...



    100%

    Also, Sportauto is the only magazine that combines standardized tests on a typical GP track (HHR) and on a extremely complex track simulating real-world street conditions (NBR). The Supertest of the LP560-4 (as the Supertest of the 997TT before) highlights how important it is to test ALL qualities of supercars. Just testing the performance on an even test track does not reveal the full character of a car



    I agree with this. The NBR is the best measure of sports cars. And I agree that SA is the most comprehensive test to date.

    Nevertheless SA credibility is being questioned and because of this many will discount results they don't agree with (CSL, R8, etc). BTW there is no logic in claiming SA drove the CSL faster than it can go!

    SA is the best we have but it is not good enough and we need a better system for measuring Ring times in such a way that no argument is possible.



    Most likely the 7.50 CSL result can be explained by the tires used for the test As I have never owned the CSL I cannot say whether these tires were comparable to those sold to customers / are comparable to the tires available for the CSL on the market today...

    Based on my experience to date the CSL is not very fast on tracks like Leipzig or Hockenheim (might be different on the NBR, though). My personal opionion is that this is primarily explained by the engine. 360hp are 360hp... However, the CSL has an extremely nice sound and I also like the classic BMW style this car extrudes

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Just there is one big difference lately-huge difference in overall opinion about some Sportscars between UK Mags like EVO or Drivers Republic and German Sport Auto. Porsche 997 Gt2 is clear example here-UK mags absolutely do not like it and Sport Auto loves it...




    Regarding the GT2: friends and I have quite easily replicated the SportAuto Supertest results. Comparing cars like Scuderia, GT2, 997TT, GT3RS, 599GTB on tracks like Leipzig, HHR, Mugello reveals that the relative performance of the above cars in OUR hands is very close to the relative HHR lap times issued by SportAuto. Of course, we are slower than HvS. HvS is an excellent driver. In HHR his times are nearly identical to Thiims times for example.

    I habe a 99.9% confidence in the Supertest. I have not yet found any indication that their test results could be misleading

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    For me problematic result is 7.50min for 997.2CS in HvS hands. It is pretty strange that HvS is as fast as Rohrl...



    Same as for the GT2 (HvS 7.33 vs. Röhrl 7.32)...

    Simple explenation could be that Porsche states not Röhrl's best lap times but adds a safety margin which could be revealed later on

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said: How is it possible that one other driver do not like 997.2C4S SPASM setup and PDK for the Ring(race driver Sascha Bert) and HvS praised it soo much?





    The C4S is not the C2S... Thinking of the 997TT PTM issues I would not be surprised if the C4S was quite a bit slower than the C2S

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Markus,
    You are little bit too big fan of Porsche and HvS lately...

    SPASM is not involved in any way with PTM. SPASM setup is both 997.2CS and 997.2C4S is almost the same...

    I do not have any doubt that 997 GT2 is awsome car just few remarks from my personal test drive:
    -lag is bigger then on 997 Turbo
    -clutch is too heavy for everyday driving, same thing about shortshifter-too heavy when cold
    -Cup tires too sensetive for wet road driving-requires extra attention from driver
    -Cup tires also not soo good when cold on dry road

    Otherwise 997 GT2 is indeed awsome car-for sunday early morning drving on empty autobahn or spirited driving on empty mountain road...

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Just there is one big difference lately-huge difference in overall opinion about some Sportscars between UK Mags like EVO or Drivers Republic and German Sport Auto. Porsche 997 Gt2 is clear example here-UK mags absolutely do not like it and Sport Auto loves it...

    For me problematic result is 7.50min for 997.2CS in HvS hands. It is pretty strange that HvS is as fast as Rohrl... Just look at telemetry data about that wonder lap-997.2CS is despite SPASM, PCCB and Cups one of the fastest cars in corners on the market according to HvS lap. Well, in my opinion it is not. How is it possible that one other driver do not like 997.2C4S SPASM setup and PDK for the Ring(race driver Sascha Bert) and HvS praised it soo much?

    Bert liked R8 Magnetic Ride much more then 997.2 SPASM. He also said that PDK gear ratios are totally wrong for the Ring. HvS claimed that PDK is very good...

    For me after recent results SA is still the one but, I do not belive in their test results 100% any more...



    I am a subscriber to Sport Auto and avid reader as far as my not so perfect german allows me.
    I rely more on their test results with lots of measurements and figures that don't lie, than on british mags and DR with lots of words and personal subjective comments and judgements.

    You imply some things and suspicions about the SA magazine and HvS in your above post!

    Please tell us exactly what you have in mind, so that we don't suspect any foul play on behalf of SA.

    Regarding Sascha Bert, I 've seen his CV on his website(I didn't know about him before).
    He might be a useful race driver with Viper and A-M with average results, but this doesn't mean he is a good test driver who can adapt easily to different cars on the NBR and elsewhere.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    For me Sport Auto is the BEST magazines in the world about Sportscars. PERIOD.

    Just recently I got impression that Horst is much more comfortable with Porsche's then with other sportscars... Maybe I am wrong? That could be...

    One very good friend of mine works for Motorpresse and he told me that HvS is indeed very good driver and truly honest person. BUT, he also told me that HvS is also big Porsche fan... After that I look every SA Supertest with different glasses...

    Just for your info Sascha Bert is far, far better driver on the Ring then Horst.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    For me Sport Auto is the BEST magazines in the world about Sportscars. PERIOD.

    Just recently I got impression that Horst is much more comfortable with Porsche's then with other sportscars... Maybe I am wrong? That could be...

    One very good friend of mine works for Motorpresse and he told me that HvS is indeed very good driver and truly honest person. BUT, he also told me that HvS is also big Porsche fan... After that I look every SA Supertest with different glasses...

    Just for your info Sascha Bert is far, far better driver on the Ring then Horst.



    Thanks for clarifying this small shadow you left in your previous post.

    If HvS is a Porsche fan, doesn't mean that he doesn't try as much in other cars so as to increase their time on purpose. After all, he makes a living from this magazine and I don't think he wants to create a bad name for himself.

    Also like he did a good time for the C2S he did a relatively terrible time for the 997 TT; he might have wished for a better TT time, but whatever the telemetry reads is the truth!

    Finally, I didn't imply that S.Bert is a bad driver, by any means. I expressed an opinion that he might not adapt so easily or quickly to new cars that he doesn't drive often enough or race.

    Re: Sportauto Supertest LP560-4

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Markus,
    You are little bit too big fan of Porsche and HvS lately...




    You should do some search for older posts of mine

    You might remember that I have been a fan of HvS for years now. My focus on the Supertest survived many periods of car development... The 996TT delivered a great Supertest when I owned one, the 997TT screwed and I did not buy one (I also annoyed many 997TT fans here on this forum when repeating again and again what I thought of the 997TT Supertest performance...), I confirmed my 599GTB order after the good supertest result and I ordered the GT2 after the excellent Supertest result. You see: I am really convinced of the Supertest. My preference for Porsche or other brands did change a lot over recent years. I buy whatever is good. My preference for the Supertest remained the same

     
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