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    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    GTlover:

    by the way the CEO of Porsche said already the 991 will not have PDK, so I don’t know what there is left to discuss. The interview was posted here ..what will happen for 991.2 GT3 may be a different story..

    I didn't see this comment Smiley

    Regarding 450HP, I said this here already before – it’s a mild increase and its OK..the current GT3 is already a capable car....ah, one more thing, the argument that the mezger engine was the reason for no PDK is not fully correct, the 2012 RSR has now one. But another issue is also liability, I cant see a PDK sustaining 50,000KM of full Nürburgring thunder..just look at the change interval for 997 CUP Cars for gearboxes…I don’t see 991 GT3 owners being willing to spent each 10,000Km 10,000€ for gearbox overhaul…!

    Street use and racing use are not the same..


    Ferrari use a DCT in the 458 and a racing transmission in the racing 458. I know that street 458s are not tracked as much as Porsche GT3s,  but this is by owner choice not because the cars themselves are not capable.

    I think that a manual (only) is an anachronism in a market with modern Ferrari, McLaren and even BMW and Mercedes. If Porsche cannot achieve that, they will appear technically backward.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    BjoernB:

    in the GT3RS MkII it actually generates 160 kgs downforce at 200 km/h which is a tremendous numbers as most sportcars do max a "zero lift" at that speed which is considered already good !

    fully agree againSmiley..by the way, I doubt that a 991 will stick more to the ground - despite longer wheelbase, and wider track - simply because it doesnt have these 160KG..it has close to 0..at 250km/h..this makes a difference..

    Of course this comparison is a bit apple and beans..but what Im trying to say is that this downforce is a serious thing..


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    GTlover:
     

    ah, one more thing, the argument that the mezger engine was the reason for no PDK is not fully correct, the 2012 RSR has now one.

    Are you sure? The RSR's gear box is a sequential six-speed gearbox


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Has anyone actually tried using the 7 speed manual gearbox on the 991? There are so many gear slots, it must surely be confusing to operate?

    My preference would be to keep a 6 speed manual gearbox on the 991 GT3 ... a nice 6 slot gearbox with reverse a further, more deliberate push to the left.


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:
    GTlover:
     

    ah, one more thing, the argument that the mezger engine was the reason for no PDK is not fully correct, the 2012 RSR has now one.

    Are you sure? The RSR's gear box is a sequential six-speed gearbox

    That's right. The RSR's gearbox is based on the same Getrag manual transmission used in the 997 GT3 and GT2 street models.


    --

    fritz


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:
    GTlover:
    ah, one more thing, the argument that the mezger engine was the reason for no PDK is not fully correct, the 2012 RSR has now one.

    Are you sure? The RSR's gear box is a sequential six-speed gearbox

    This is my understanding as well.  Just because the RSR is now equipped with paddles, that doesn't mean it's using a PDK gearbox.  It's a sequential six-speed gearbox (designed for racing), which just happens to be operated by means of paddles rather than a sequential stick shift.  Far cry from a PDK.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    easy_rider911:

    Has anyone actually tried using the 7 speed manual gearbox on the 991? There are so many gear slots, it must surely be confusing to operate?

    My preference would be to keep a 6 speed manual gearbox on the 991 GT3 ... a nice 6 slot gearbox with reverse a further, more deliberate push to the left.

    +1  Smiley  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:
    GTlover:
     

    ah, one more thing, the argument that the mezger engine was the reason for no PDK is not fully correct, the 2012 RSR has now one.

    Are you sure? The RSR's gear box is a sequential six-speed gearbox

    Exactly, 6 speed sequential with paddles.

    "Das sequentielle Porsche Sechsganggetriebe wird über Schaltwippen am Lenkrad betätigt."


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    PureBlue:
    easy_rider911:

    Has anyone actually tried using the 7 speed manual gearbox on the 991? There are so many gear slots, it must surely be confusing to operate?

    My preference would be to keep a 6 speed manual gearbox on the 991 GT3 ... a nice 6 slot gearbox with reverse a further, more deliberate push to the left.

    +1  Smiley  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    Not sure I would say the 6speed is broke, but it is certainly far less than ideal for track use in the GT3 (gears are far too widely spaced for best performance).  Having 7 tightly packed gears (with top speed coming in 7th gear at peak hp, instead of in 6th) would be a huge performance benefit.


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Grant:
    PureBlue:
    easy_rider911:

    Has anyone actually tried using the 7 speed manual gearbox on the 991? There are so many gear slots, it must surely be confusing to operate?

    My preference would be to keep a 6 speed manual gearbox on the 991 GT3 ... a nice 6 slot gearbox with reverse a further, more deliberate push to the left.

    +1  Smiley  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    Not sure I would say the 6speed is broke, but it is certainly far less than ideal for track use in the GT3 (gears are far too widely spaced for best performance).  Having 7 tightly packed gears (with top speed coming in 7th gear at peak hp, instead of in 6th) would be a huge performance benefit.

    Easy fix for that on existing GT3s would surely be a (numerically) higher final-drive ratio, which would reduce top speed in sixth to a speed achievable on the track and close up all the ratios, but would not involve completely stripping the box at each ratio change. 


    --

    fritz


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    fritz:
    Grant:
    PureBlue:
    easy_rider911:

    Has anyone actually tried using the 7 speed manual gearbox on the 991? There are so many gear slots, it must surely be confusing to operate?

    My preference would be to keep a 6 speed manual gearbox on the 991 GT3 ... a nice 6 slot gearbox with reverse a further, more deliberate push to the left.

    +1  Smiley  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    Not sure I would say the 6speed is broke, but it is certainly far less than ideal for track use in the GT3 (gears are far too widely spaced for best performance).  Having 7 tightly packed gears (with top speed coming in 7th gear at peak hp, instead of in 6th) would be a huge performance benefit.

    Easy fix for that on existing GT3s would surely be a (numerically) higher final-drive ratio, which would reduce top speed in sixth to a speed achievable on the track and close up all the ratios, but would not involve completely stripping the box at each ratio change. 


    People have done the final-drive change and been disappointed.  There is a much bigger benefit to changing the individual ratios (2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th).  The problem is when shifting from 2nd to 3rd with the standard gearing (with or without final drive ratio change) is the motor falls well below the power peak in 3rd and bogs down.  There is a similar problem in other gears, but the gap between 2nd and 3rd is most problematic and those gear are used on most slow corners where it hurts most.  The rpm drop between gears is not affected with a final drive change (it just happens at a lower speed).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    have u guys seen this?

    tri-turbo 3.8???


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Triple turbo setup for new 911 Turbo?

    Very interesting.

    525 hp looks small by the way comparing to GTRs 550 hp


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Sounds like a big leap forward on this 3.8 engine.  it would now be 991TTT.....


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    very interesting and I am sure the torque curve is flat from Diesel like 1750 rpm to almost red-line.....if they can manage 700nm across the board with new 7 or 8 speed the numbers would be amazing !


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    huangester:

    Sounds like a big leap forward on this 3.8 engine.  it would now be 991TTT.....

    Still a TT, now Tri-Turbo instead of Twin Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    I'd call it 991T3...


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Grant:

    I'd call it 991T3...

    Not to be confused with 991GT3 Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Grant:

    I'd call it 991T3...


    Good resemblance to this one here and I guess we will experience some kind of termination as well... Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Tri-Turbo. Omph...all I can think of is the price of maintenance and the added complexity.

    It's already equipped with rather rare (for a gas engine) variable vane turbos.

    Wouldn't it be far easier and cheaper just to punch out the current 3.8L to 4.0L or enlarge the turbos using a hybrid system to avoid lag.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Heist:

    Tri-Turbo. Omph...all I can think of is the price of maintenance and the added complexity.

    It's already equipped with rather rare (for a gas engine) variable vane turbos.

    Wouldn't it be far easier and cheaper just to punch out the current 3.8L to 4.0L or enlarge the turbos using a hybrid system to avoid lag.

    It's obvious that they are trying to maximize efficiency, not just performance.  So, this tri-turbo rig probably uses less fuel (adding displacement or bigger turbos will do the opposite).


    --

    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs).  Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550 Maranello


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    But they're are sure to bring an ultra rare Turbo 4.0 with a limited run of just 500 samples at 300,000 EUR


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    What's the latest guesstimate when the 991 Turbo will be introduced and launched in Europe? Will it be press embargo in february 2013, showed @ Geneva in march and dealer introduction and first customer cars delivered in early May?

    Seriously thinking of pre-ordering one... smiley


    --

    On Order: 991 C2S Basalt Black/Black - PDK, PSE, SPASM, SportChrono, etc.
    Sold: 997.2 C2S Meteor Grey/Black - PDK, PSE, LSD, SportChrono, etc.
    Sold: 997.1 C2S Black/Black - PSE, PCCB, -20mm/LSD, Short-shifter, SportChrono, etc.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Grant:

    I'd call it 991T3...


    Good resemblance to this one here and I guess we will experience some kind of termination as well... Smiley

    198161985_3c137b788f.jpg

    Sorry for repost, but in my first post the picture doesn't seem to work... Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    artur777:

    Triple turbo setup for new 911 Turbo?

    Very interesting.

    525 hp looks small by the way comparing to GTRs 550 hp

    From recollection this would not be out of sync with previous generational step ups in HP. As ever, I suspect Porsche will be more focussed on overall performance metrics rather than pure HP wars. I await its arrival with a great degree of anticipation Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Lukas:

    Seriously thinking of pre-ordering one... smiley

    Same here. Smiley


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Atzporsche:

    But they're are sure to bring an ultra rare Turbo 4.0 with a limited run of just 500 samples at 300,000 EUR

    Yes. Of course. How could I forget. Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    artur777:

    Triple turbo setup for new 911 Turbo?

    Very interesting.

    525 hp looks small by the way comparing to GTRs 550 hp

    The tri-turbo rumor came up based on a patent application. UK car magazines were always quite off the scent when it came to new Porsche products, so I would take this with a grain of salt. Question is: Why should Porsche use a tri-turbo setup if they can achieve the same power with a twin turbo setup ? Don't forget that a tri-turbo system would probably be more expensive. The patent application may exist for a later usage. So far, I haven't heard anything about a tri turbo fuel engine but since Porsche was the first to use VTG turbo chargers in a non-Diesel car, the tri turbo rumor could be right.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (April 2012 delivery), Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    RC:
    artur777:

    Triple turbo setup for new 911 Turbo?

    Very interesting.

    525 hp looks small by the way comparing to GTRs 550 hp

    The tri-turbo rumor came up based on a patent application. UK car magazines were always quite off the scent when it came to new Porsche products, so I would take this with a grain of salt. Question is: Why should Porsche use a tri-turbo setup if they can achieve the same power with a twin turbo setup ? Don't forget that a tri-turbo system would probably be more expensive. The patent application may exist for a later usage. So far, I haven't heard anything about a tri turbo fuel engine but since Porsche was the first to use VTG turbo chargers in a non-Diesel car, the tri turbo rumor could be right.

    It might be kind of late to be filing a patent application for an engine that is currently close to production.  This might be for a mid-cycle refresh of the 991 turbo, or any other future turbo engine for other model lines, not just the 991.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk



     
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