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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Here's a really great read from Rennlist on electric power trains and their non-intuitive nature:

    http://rennlist.com/forums/mission-e/984994-intro-to-electric-powertrains.html

    Great technical reading for those interested in Mission E, Tesla and so on.


    --

    Mike

    918 Spyder + 991 GT3 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Drove in a Tesla X yesterday for the very first time. Not a bad ride and comfortable but I just cannot get used to the ugly minivan look of that thing. yes


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    W8MM:

    Here's a really great read from Rennlist on electric power trains and their non-intuitive nature:

    http://rennlist.com/forums/mission-e/984994-intro-to-electric-powertrains.html

    Great technical reading for those interested in Mission E, Tesla and so on.

    Agree, that was a great technical read and not one to sugarcoat the obvious technical issues with EVs.  I've spoken with too many non-technical individuals that believe EV development should follow a similar technological roadmap as electronics, without nary an understanding of the differences.  Intel's application of Moore's Law as its strategy has everyone believing that the development process will happen in a much quicker timeframe than reality.  The author pointed out that battery chemistry is developing at roughly 2% to 3% per year, not the doubling every 18 to 24 months seen with semiconductor development.  

    One was also pleased the author discussed aerodynamic drag as the most significant limiting factor on EV development to affect range.  Unlike electronics, which became smaller and smaller, with corresponding increases in speed and lower power consumption, automobiles are relatively fixed in size, one cannot make the passengers smaller.  Therefore, beyond the relatively small gains in performance through battery chemistry, increasing battery size is the only way to increased power and range.  

    The auto industry should be thankful, at this transition point between ICEs and EVs, that consumer demand is strong for crossover type vehicles, as this aligns neatly with larger battery packs.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I didn´t have time to post some news from Porsche.

    But I think three informations about J1 are worth taking the time:

    - J1 (Mission E codename) coupé - development stopped
    - J1 cabrio - development stopped
    - J1 allroad - development started

    What a shame for J1 coupé. The allroad version gets a development budget of 300 mil. Euro for the few plastic parts 

     


    --

    AM


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    That makes a lot of sense. small SUV and crossovers is where the action is in the USA and sedan are becoming a thing of the past very slowly...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    So only the 4-door version and 4-door allroad?


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    ALDO:

    - J1 (Mission E codename) coupé - development stopped
     

    That is a real shame  - i was planning for that be my first electric car SmileySmiley. Presumably this another win for the marketing department rather than a technical issue?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    The Mission E will be built on a specific platform, no worries...they can add a lot of variants later on. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Are you saying that the original showcar - called Mission E - will not be released and all development actions are stopped? The only thing will be an allroad version?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    linsengucker:

    Are you saying that the original showcar - called Mission E - will not be released and all development actions are stopped? The only thing will be an allroad version?

    No, he is saying that only two of the derivatives are stopped for now… 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    linsengucker:

    Are you saying that the original showcar - called Mission E - will not be released and all development actions are stopped? The only thing will be an allroad version?

    I think you misread his post. There will be the sedan and the allroad. Smiley Still no problem, they can add other variants along the way since the Mission E will use a shared platform.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Mission E is getting closer...first 800 V charging stations installed in Berlin. blush

    S17_0442_fine.jpg

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:

    Mission E is getting closer...first 800 V charging stations installed in Berlin. blush

    S17_0442_fine.jpg

     

    RC,

    Do you know how they propose to power these 800 volt stations?

    Is there a step-up transformer?


    --

    Mike

    918 Spyder + 991 GT3 RS +Tesla Roadster 1.5 & Model S + Panamera Turbo +  BMW Z8 + BMW 3.0 CSi + Bentley Arnage T


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    These 800 V chargers will be installed at the Porsche Center Berlin-Adlershof, they should be available starting autumn this year

    They are powered by 8000 single solar cells or 168 panels (which also power the Porsche Center) which are integrated into a Porsche "tower" (see photo). The "tower", it is 25 meters high, produces 30000 kWh per year. Cost was 800k EUR.

    150029315353226.jpg

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:

    These 800 V chargers will be installed at the Porsche Center Berlin-Adlershof, they should be available starting autumn this year

    They are powered by 8000 single solar cells or 168 panels (which also power the Porsche Center) which are integrated into a Porsche "tower" (see photo). The "tower", it is 25 meters high, produces 30000 kWh per year. Cost was 800k EUR.

    150029315353226.jpg

     

    Whoopsy could get one of these for his backyard. Smiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    kiss


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | Powerkit White - The fastest car on Rennteam
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    "Tower of Power"... No longer refers to audio speakers (or a musical group).

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Truth be told: If this thing really produces 30000 kWh per year, maybe worth getting it. The Porsche logo looks nice too. indecision


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:

    Truth be told: If this thing really produces 30000 kWh per year, maybe worth getting it. The Porsche logo looks nice too. indecision

    Nah, if Sir Elon did not personally invent it, and tweet about it, it can't be any good.... SmileySmiley


    --

    2011 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Rossi:
    RC:

    These 800 V chargers will be installed at the Porsche Center Berlin-Adlershof, they should be available starting autumn this year

    They are powered by 8000 single solar cells or 168 panels (which also power the Porsche Center) which are integrated into a Porsche "tower" (see photo). The "tower", it is 25 meters high, produces 30000 kWh per year. Cost was 800k EUR.

    150029315353226.jpg

     

    Whoopsy could get one of these for his backyard. Smiley

     

    Seriously, why am I being dragged into this again?Smiley

    But if Porsche is gonna pay for it, I will have one in my backyard Smiley


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    4trac:
    RC:

    Truth be told: If this thing really produces 30000 kWh per year, maybe worth getting it. The Porsche logo looks nice too. indecision

    Nah, if Sir Elon did not personally invent it, and tweet about it, it can't be any good.... SmileySmiley

    Smiley


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:

    These 800 V chargers will be installed at the Porsche Center Berlin-Adlershof, they should be available starting autumn this year

    They are powered by 8000 single solar cells or 168 panels (which also power the Porsche Center) which are integrated into a Porsche "tower" (see photo). The "tower", it is 25 meters high, produces 30000 kWh per year. Cost was 800k EUR.

    150029315353226.jpg

     

    800k for 30kWh a year - this is waaaaaaaaay to expensive. Someone makes a lot of money with those. What I dont understand, how can they achieve 30kwh out of this small surface.... ok, maybe that's why it is so expensive. Again - usually this surface is too small for this kind of output


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Lars...30000 kWh...not 30kWh. 
     

    Anyway: Amortisation of this thing (if we ignore maintenance and repairs over the same period of time) is achieved after 88 years or so if I'm not mistaken.  So it is clearly a way to advertise electric mobility, a publicity stunt, nothing else.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    OK - 30000kwh - you are right, made a mistake when reading. Yes - that matches with 800k. But then I even question stronger that this cant be the output of that one single Porsche-Sign - right?

    .... and yes - it is publicity as it is the carbon footprint of any e-car.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Lars997:

    OK - 30000kwh - you are right, made a mistake when reading. Yes - that matches with 800k. But then I even question stronger that this cant be the output of that one single Porsche-Sign - right?

    .... and yes - it is publicity as it is the carbon footprint of any e-car.

    It is...this thing is 25 meters high and has thousands(!) of single solar cells installed. Smiley

    Better photo to show the size...

    e4f525a8-ab0f-4df3-861e-e843b5b38a70_teaser_original_720x1_5.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Na 30.000 kWh per year is less then my solar panel are producing. I have in Stuttgart 1200 solar hours per year in Miami you have 1800 sh pa.

    In Miami you need maybe 20kwp to produce this 30.000 kwh in a year. 1kwp costs around 1.200 € - just the panels. This panels are different so maybe twice the price. The rest is the tower and the logo.


    --

    AM


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    ALDO:

    Na 30.000 kWh per year is less then my solar panel are producing. I have in Stuttgart 1200 solar hours per year in Miami you have 1800 sh pa.

    In Miami you need maybe 20kwp to produce this 30.000 kwh in a year. 1kwp costs around 1.200 € - just the panels. This panels are different so maybe twice the price. The rest is the tower and the logo.

    Miami? This Porsche tower is in Berlin. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    Lars997:

    OK - 30000kwh - you are right, made a mistake when reading. Yes - that matches with 800k. But then I even question stronger that this cant be the output of that one single Porsche-Sign - right?

    .... and yes - it is publicity as it is the carbon footprint of any e-car.

    It is...this thing is 25 meters high and has thousands(!) of single solar cells installed. Smiley

    Better photo to show the size...

    e4f525a8-ab0f-4df3-861e-e843b5b38a70_teaser_original_720x1_5.jpg


    This is too small for Whoopsy's backyard... Smiley


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    a okay, then you have maybde around 800 solar hours a year - makes it more expensive - you need 35-40 kwp. 


    --

    AM


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Rossi:

    This is too small for Whoopsy's backyard... Smiley

    No problem...found the solution.

    This one...Porsche Tower in Sunny Isles Beach...he could build a second one in his backyard. Smiley

    Porsche-Design-Tower-Rendering-11.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


     
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