Crown

Board: Other Sports Cars Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I was referring to his Dinos. I mean, it's not like they are good cars. Whether you like it or not is another story. Nothing wrong with liking old cars, but it doesn't make them good cars by any stretch of the word.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:

    I was referring to his Dinos. I mean, it's not like they are good cars. Whether you like it or not is another story. Nothing wrong with liking old cars, but it doesn't make them good cars by any stretch of the word.

    I don't have a Dino ( I have a view on them Smiley). I think you are mixing me up with my friend  @ISUK who has owned and restored at least a couple of them.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Doh, you're right, I am! 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:

    Doh, you're right, I am! 

    How did it feel to accept you were wrong about something? Did your common sense allergy kick in and you broke out in hives?


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Enmanuel:
    noone1:

    Doh, you're right, I am! 

    How did it feel to accept you were wrong about something? Did your common sense allergy kick in and you broke out in hives?

    Huh?


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Enmanuel:
    noone1:

    Doh, you're right, I am! 

    How did it feel to accept you were wrong about something? Did your common sense allergy kick in and you broke out in hives?

     

    Oh god, I almost choked to death Smiley


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    Enmanuel:
    noone1:

    Doh, you're right, I am! 

    How did it feel to accept you were wrong about something? Did your common sense allergy kick in and you broke out in hives?

     

    Oh god, I almost choked to death Smiley

    Smiley 

    11oLvTrSqsJhM4.gif


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    He’ll choke on this one too but explain, as only he can, why the author’s article is without merit.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-19/tesla-s-cash-burn-has-elon-musk-s-dreams-living-on-borrowed-time


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    As opposed to cars I could do without less noise in planes...

    https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/electric-planes-promise-big-benefits-air-passengers-planet-ncna862001


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:

    He’ll choke on this one too but explain, as only he can, why the author’s article is without merit.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-19/tesla-s-cash-burn-has-elon-musk-s-dreams-living-on-borrowed-time

    What is so hard to understand about this? It. Doesn't. Matter. The stock can be worth $1 and it's irrelevant. No one in here gives a shit what the price of the stock is except you. 

    Fiat Chyrsler was worth only $8B a couple years ago and it was making like 4M cars per year. The market cap and stock price are irrelevant to Tesla existing and selling cars.

    Why the hell would any consumer care what a company is worth or how much money it makes?

    I don't know why you have such a hard-on for TSLA or Musk. Did he sleep with your wife or something? TSLA shareholders and Musk made shit loads of money -- you didn't. Deal with it. You've been wrong about the stock for how long now? Wat to tell everyone who bought it at 10, 20, 100, 125, 200, 225, that they're all idiots?

    So yeah, I'm not sure if you're just mad about missing out or if he did in fact sleep with your wife.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    I like CGX points of view, there is some truth in it and he does have some inside industry infos. But he is so biased it’s ridiculous. Either he is short the stock one way or the other or he is in close business ties with some parts of the old traditional industry. But he has an agenda, his simple refusal to address it is proof in itself.

    Like you Noone1 I could care less when the stock trades at, I just like the products, the vision and the revolution Musk already has provoked. TSLA short seller have lost billions as a group, and Musk has already won. He got richer and achieved things very few have and certainly no one here who makes a living trashing other people’s work...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:
    CGX car nut:

    He’ll choke on this one too but explain, as only he can, why the author’s article is without merit.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-19/tesla-s-cash-burn-has-elon-musk-s-dreams-living-on-borrowed-time

    What is so hard to understand about this? It. Doesn't. Matter. The stock can be worth $1 and it's irrelevant. No one in here gives a shit what the price of the stock is except you. 

    Fiat Chyrsler was worth only $8B a couple years ago and it was making like 4M cars per year. The market cap and stock price are irrelevant to Tesla existing and selling cars.

    Why the hell would any consumer care what a company is worth or how much money it makes?

    I don't know why you have such a hard-on for TSLA or Musk. Did he sleep with your wife or something? TSLA shareholders and Musk made shit loads of money -- you didn't. Deal with it. You've been wrong about the stock for how long now? Wat to tell everyone who bought it at 10, 20, 100, 125, 200, 225, that they're all idiots?

    So yeah, I'm not sure if you're just mad about missing out or if he did in fact sleep with your wife.

    C'mon, seriously? Do you think this is appropriate? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    To noone1’s question, if I were a possible buyer for say, a Model 3, I would only be concerned about Tesla’s financial health if it was fragile enough that I was at risk of owning an orphan car.  Otherwise, no, I don't care about its market cap etc. As it happens I don’t believe the orphan risk is high any more, because whatever happens to Tesla now, there would be a successor company who would make owners whole with respect to warranties etc., even if it was a bumpier ride to get there. 


    --

    2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Ageed that where the Tesla stock price trades is largely irrelevant to Rennteam members, assuming there is still a company producing the same electric cars and providing customer servicing, updates, etc in 5 or 10 years time.

    BUT... if the company goes through a financial restructuring that exchanges debt holdings (e.g. high yield bonds that have recently been downgraded to Caa1) into a new class of equity (i.e. with previous shareholders wiped out) there is a risk to any customers that have provided an unsecured deposit to Tesla Inc to secure an order for a future vehicle.

    To put that into context, at the end of 2017, Tesla Inc had $853 million of Customer Deposits listed as Current Liabilities on the Balance Sheet.

    This would include the $250,000 founder deposits that some customers have provided for the Tesla Roadster.

    To put it bluntly, given the current underperformance of Tesla as a credit (e.g. check where Tesla bonds have been trading) there is a risk of a financial restructuring where customers lose their depositSmiley

    As an aside, it is worth keeping in mind that Tesla cannot raise unsecured debt finance in the global credit markets at this point. So why should loyal Tesla customers accept this risk? Smiley

    Given the extensive discussions that have taken place on Rennteam, I sincerely hope that no Rennteam members are ever in a position to lose their (unsecured) deposit on a future Tesla, whether that's the Roadster, a Truck, or any other model... Smiley

    Even if you have 100% faith in every word that Elon Musk says, have a look at what he is telling employees about focusing on all cost items, expenditure, capex, etc. The company is running out of liquidity unless they raise new equity capital in 2018.

    At this point, the ability to become profitable and cashflow positive in Q3 2018 is heavily reliant on the success of Tesla Model 3 production volumes and margins. The risk to achieving volume targets is well flagged and even acknowledge by Elon Musk. The market is now also focusing on the risk to gross margins following the admission tbat Tesla needs a lot more employees and less automation to become a volume car manfucturer.

    Caveat emptor! Smiley

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    RC:
    noone1:
    CGX car nut:

    He’ll choke on this one too but explain, as only he can, why the author’s article is without merit.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-19/tesla-s-cash-burn-has-elon-musk-s-dreams-living-on-borrowed-time

    What is so hard to understand about this? It. Doesn't. Matter. The stock can be worth $1 and it's irrelevant. No one in here gives a shit what the price of the stock is except you. 

    Fiat Chyrsler was worth only $8B a couple years ago and it was making like 4M cars per year. The market cap and stock price are irrelevant to Tesla existing and selling cars.

    Why the hell would any consumer care what a company is worth or how much money it makes?

    I don't know why you have such a hard-on for TSLA or Musk. Did he sleep with your wife or something? TSLA shareholders and Musk made shit loads of money -- you didn't. Deal with it. You've been wrong about the stock for how long now? Wat to tell everyone who bought it at 10, 20, 100, 125, 200, 225, that they're all idiots?

    So yeah, I'm not sure if you're just mad about missing out or if he did in fact sleep with your wife.

    C'mon, seriously? Do you think this is appropriate? Smiley

    Being that I have no idea if he even has a wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend, then yes, I think it's appropriate since it implies he clearly has some personal axe to grind.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Ageed that where the Tesla stock price trades is largely irrelevant to Rennteam members, assuming there is still a company producing the same electric cars and providing customer servicing, updates, etc in 5 or 10 years time.

    BUT... if the company goes through a financial restructuring that exchanges debt holdings (e.g. high yield bonds that have recently been downgraded to Caa1) into a new class of equity (i.e. with previous shareholders wiped out) there is a risk to any customers that have provided an unsecured deposit to Tesla Inc to secure an order for a future vehicle.

    To put that into context, at the end of 2017, Tesla Inc had $853 million of Customer Deposits listed as Current Liabilities on the Balance Sheet.

    This would include the $250,000 founder deposits that some customers have provided for the Tesla Roadster.

    To put it bluntly, given the current underperformance of Tesla as a credit (e.g. check where Tesla bonds have been trading) there is a risk of a financial restructuring where customers lose their depositSmiley

    As an aside, it is worth keeping in mind that Tesla cannot raise unsecured debt finance in the global credit markets at this point. So why should loyal Tesla customers accept this risk? Smiley

    Given the extensive discussions that have taken place on Rennteam, I sincerely hope that no Rennteam members are ever in a position to lose their (unsecured) deposit on a future Tesla, whether that's the Roadster, a Truck, or any other model... Smiley

    Even if you have 100% faith in every word that Elon Musk says, have a look at what he is telling employees about focusing on all cost items, expenditure, capex, etc. The company is running out of liquidity unless they raise new equity capital in 2018.

    At this point, the ability to become profitable and cashflow positive in Q3 2018 is heavily reliant on the success of Tesla Model 3 production volumes and margins. The risk to achieving volume targets is well flagged and even acknowledge by Elon Musk. The market is now also focusing on the risk to gross margins following the admission tbat Tesla needs a lot more employees and less automation to become a volume car manfucturer.

    Caveat emptor! Smiley

     

    No one is forcing anyone to give deposits and they are completely refundable as far as I know. The average person has a better chance of losing $2000 in the SP500 than from bankruptcy of Tesla.

    Even if Tesla did go into bankruptcy, the acquiring company would have to honor the deposits otherwise they would be acquiring a brand with no orders since all burned customers would tell them to fuck off and cancel. It would destroy the brand value. And I think we can all agree that Tesla's brand is worth a lot of money, so bidders would simply calculate the cost of deposits into their bid. It's not even that much. $1B is peanuts for anyone looking to acquire Tesla. Toyota makes that in less than a month.
     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    He did meet expectations.

    One does not hold a direct economic interest dependent on Tesla.   Instead, having lived through the dot.com boom, and bust, there are too many similarities.   When that euphoric era ended, entire industries were saddled with onerous laws and regulations.   While many of these laws were made with good intentions, the rapidness to enact something led to knee-jerk, faulty outcomes.   Thus, many businesses were overburdened, leading to additional failures and some great ideas not receiving funding.  After all, it is small and new business formation that drives the U.S. economy.   If Tesla fails, any stronger language would send palpitations through a poster or two, many small investors, who currently ride the wave of being part of the utopian disruptive business plan will suffer economically.   Many may now say otherwise, but these same investors will be screaming for action, and the cycle repeats itself.  

    Musk has promoted a faulty business model based on hopes and dreams.  Anything man does have an impact on the planet so the good earth citizen concept is less important than having a great business model for economic success.  There are virtually no record of any disruptive company requiring high CapEx to achieve its goals.  Before those pundits turn to Amazon as an example, Amazon worked off negative working capital needs.  That is, Amazon takes in cash from customers before it pays for the inventory sold to that customer.  As a result, the company funds its growth through that cash flow.   Tesla, on the other hand, must finance, typically through debt, is massive CapEx investment, before it realizes any cash flow, to service that debt, from customers.   This is a dangerous dance, and any slight hiccup leads to financial distress.  

    Finally, one takes much umbrage at Musk’s treatment toward Eberhard and Tarpenning.  These two men made Tesla a reality, but Musk’s enormous ego forced them out.  They had the winning business model and Tesla, while having a lower market cap, would be on firmer financial ground if they were still there.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Ageed that where the Tesla stock price trades is largely irrelevant to Rennteam members, assuming there is still a company producing the same electric cars and providing customer servicing, updates, etc in 5 or 10 years time.

    BUT... if the company goes through a financial restructuring that exchanges debt holdings (e.g. high yield bonds that have recently been downgraded to Caa1) into a new class of equity (i.e. with previous shareholders wiped out) there is a risk to any customers that have provided an unsecured deposit to Tesla Inc to secure an order for a future vehicle.

    To put that into context, at the end of 2017, Tesla Inc had $853 million of Customer Deposits listed as Current Liabilities on the Balance Sheet.

    This would include the $250,000 founder deposits that some customers have provided for the Tesla Roadster.

    To put it bluntly, given the current underperformance of Tesla as a credit (e.g. check where Tesla bonds have been trading) there is a risk of a financial restructuring where customers lose their depositSmiley

    As an aside, it is worth keeping in mind that Tesla cannot raise unsecured debt finance in the global credit markets at this point. So why should loyal Tesla customers accept this risk? Smiley

    Given the extensive discussions that have taken place on Rennteam, I sincerely hope that no Rennteam members are ever in a position to lose their (unsecured) deposit on a future Tesla, whether that's the Roadster, a Truck, or any other model... Smiley

    Even if you have 100% faith in every word that Elon Musk says, have a look at what he is telling employees about focusing on all cost items, expenditure, capex, etc. The company is running out of liquidity unless they raise new equity capital in 2018.

    At this point, the ability to become profitable and cashflow positive in Q3 2018 is heavily reliant on the success of Tesla Model 3 production volumes and margins. The risk to achieving volume targets is well flagged and even acknowledge by Elon Musk. The market is now also focusing on the risk to gross margins following the admission tbat Tesla needs a lot more employees and less automation to become a volume car manfucturer.

    Caveat emptor! Smiley

     

    Very well stated.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    How about give us examples of your economic doom and gloom of what you predict will happen when TSLA crashes. 


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Ageed that where the Tesla stock price trades is largely irrelevant to Rennteam members, assuming there is still a company producing the same electric cars and providing customer servicing, updates, etc in 5 or 10 years time.

    BUT... if the company goes through a financial restructuring that exchanges debt holdings (e.g. high yield bonds that have recently been downgraded to Caa1) into a new class of equity (i.e. with previous shareholders wiped out) there is a risk to any customers that have provided an unsecured deposit to Tesla Inc to secure an order for a future vehicle.

    To put that into context, at the end of 2017, Tesla Inc had $853 million of Customer Deposits listed as Current Liabilities on the Balance Sheet.

    This would include the $250,000 founder deposits that some customers have provided for the Tesla Roadster.

    To put it bluntly, given the current underperformance of Tesla as a credit (e.g. check where Tesla bonds have been trading) there is a risk of a financial restructuring where customers lose their depositSmiley

    As an aside, it is worth keeping in mind that Tesla cannot raise unsecured debt finance in the global credit markets at this point. So why should loyal Tesla customers accept this risk? Smiley

    Given the extensive discussions that have taken place on Rennteam, I sincerely hope that no Rennteam members are ever in a position to lose their (unsecured) deposit on a future Tesla, whether that's the Roadster, a Truck, or any other model... Smiley

    Even if you have 100% faith in every word that Elon Musk says, have a look at what he is telling employees about focusing on all cost items, expenditure, capex, etc. The company is running out of liquidity unless they raise new equity capital in 2018.

    At this point, the ability to become profitable and cashflow positive in Q3 2018 is heavily reliant on the success of Tesla Model 3 production volumes and margins. The risk to achieving volume targets is well flagged and even acknowledge by Elon Musk. The market is now also focusing on the risk to gross margins following the admission tbat Tesla needs a lot more employees and less automation to become a volume car manfucturer.

    Caveat emptor! Smiley

     

    No one is forcing anyone to give deposits and they are completely refundable as far as I know. The average person has a better chance of losing $2000 in the SP500 than from bankruptcy of Tesla.

    Even if Tesla did go into bankruptcy, the acquiring company would have to honor the deposits otherwise they would be acquiring a brand with no orders since all burned customers would tell them to fuck off and cancel. It would destroy the brand value. And I think we can all agree that Tesla's brand is worth a lot of money, so bidders would simply calculate the cost of deposits into their bid. It's not even that much. $1B is peanuts for anyone looking to acquire Tesla. Toyota makes that in less than a month.
     

     

    Unfortunately the real world doesn't work like you want it to.

    In an event where Tesla went bankrupt and someone else came in for the buyout, the burden of the deposits wiped out will be on Elon, and the old company, not the new purchaser. The burnt customers can only get pissed off at Elon's lies. 

    Look no farther than old GM and new GM. It basically went though the exact thing not too long ago. New GM certainly didn't feel any ill feelings towards it.

    And if the burnt customers still believed in EV and wanted a 'Tesla', they will still pay deposit again for new orders, especially when the new Tesla is being run more responsibly and actually know what they are doing.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Whoopsy:
    noone1:
    Boxster Coupe GTS:

    Ageed that where the Tesla stock price trades is largely irrelevant to Rennteam members, assuming there is still a company producing the same electric cars and providing customer servicing, updates, etc in 5 or 10 years time.

    BUT... if the company goes through a financial restructuring that exchanges debt holdings (e.g. high yield bonds that have recently been downgraded to Caa1) into a new class of equity (i.e. with previous shareholders wiped out) there is a risk to any customers that have provided an unsecured deposit to Tesla Inc to secure an order for a future vehicle.

    To put that into context, at the end of 2017, Tesla Inc had $853 million of Customer Deposits listed as Current Liabilities on the Balance Sheet.

    This would include the $250,000 founder deposits that some customers have provided for the Tesla Roadster.

    To put it bluntly, given the current underperformance of Tesla as a credit (e.g. check where Tesla bonds have been trading) there is a risk of a financial restructuring where customers lose their depositSmiley

    As an aside, it is worth keeping in mind that Tesla cannot raise unsecured debt finance in the global credit markets at this point. So why should loyal Tesla customers accept this risk? Smiley

    Given the extensive discussions that have taken place on Rennteam, I sincerely hope that no Rennteam members are ever in a position to lose their (unsecured) deposit on a future Tesla, whether that's the Roadster, a Truck, or any other model... Smiley

    Even if you have 100% faith in every word that Elon Musk says, have a look at what he is telling employees about focusing on all cost items, expenditure, capex, etc. The company is running out of liquidity unless they raise new equity capital in 2018.

    At this point, the ability to become profitable and cashflow positive in Q3 2018 is heavily reliant on the success of Tesla Model 3 production volumes and margins. The risk to achieving volume targets is well flagged and even acknowledge by Elon Musk. The market is now also focusing on the risk to gross margins following the admission tbat Tesla needs a lot more employees and less automation to become a volume car manfucturer.

    Caveat emptor! Smiley

     

    No one is forcing anyone to give deposits and they are completely refundable as far as I know. The average person has a better chance of losing $2000 in the SP500 than from bankruptcy of Tesla.

    Even if Tesla did go into bankruptcy, the acquiring company would have to honor the deposits otherwise they would be acquiring a brand with no orders since all burned customers would tell them to fuck off and cancel. It would destroy the brand value. And I think we can all agree that Tesla's brand is worth a lot of money, so bidders would simply calculate the cost of deposits into their bid. It's not even that much. $1B is peanuts for anyone looking to acquire Tesla. Toyota makes that in less than a month.
     

     

    Unfortunately the real world doesn't work like you want it to.

    In an event where Tesla went bankrupt and someone else came in for the buyout, the burden of the deposits wiped out will be on Elon, and the old company, not the new purchaser. The burnt customers can only get pissed off at Elon's lies. 

    Look no farther than old GM and new GM. It basically went though the exact thing not too long ago. New GM certainly didn't feel any ill feelings towards it.

    And if the burnt customers still believed in EV and wanted a 'Tesla', they will still pay deposit again for new orders, especially when the new Tesla is being run more responsibly and actually know what they are doing.

     

    Your analysis is based on the assumption of salvageable assets.  Few companies would want the Freemont facility because of the high cost factors.  While this is not the NUMI facility anymore, the Freemont site was the only Toyota facility never to turn a profit because of the high costs of doing business in the Valley.   Next, there’s the issue of the production model that doesn’t fit into the production model of the majors.   No other automaker is developing battery packs utilizing cylindrical cells, only prismatic and pouch designs.  This means the Nevada Gigaplant isn’t applicable to any of the majors.   The Buffalo facility for solar products would hold little appeal to any major as it is not a core competence for automaking.   Likewise, the direct distribution stores conflict with dealer model in place.  The only asset of potential value is the Supercharger network, but that too is dependent on how it can be converted to one of the standards for charging, i.e., CCS.  

    One the short list of potentials: Ford, FCA, or a Chinese company hoping to gain exposure to the U.S. market.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    The assets taken independently only matter if the company is being dismantled. Before that, someone will take everything minus the debt and original equity in an instant and maybe even some of the deposits...


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:
    RC:
    noone1:
    CGX car nut:

    He’ll choke on this one too but explain, as only he can, why the author’s article is without merit.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-19/tesla-s-cash-burn-has-elon-musk-s-dreams-living-on-borrowed-time

    What is so hard to understand about this? It. Doesn't. Matter. The stock can be worth $1 and it's irrelevant. No one in here gives a shit what the price of the stock is except you. 

    Fiat Chyrsler was worth only $8B a couple years ago and it was making like 4M cars per year. The market cap and stock price are irrelevant to Tesla existing and selling cars.

    Why the hell would any consumer care what a company is worth or how much money it makes?

    I don't know why you have such a hard-on for TSLA or Musk. Did he sleep with your wife or something? TSLA shareholders and Musk made shit loads of money -- you didn't. Deal with it. You've been wrong about the stock for how long now? Wat to tell everyone who bought it at 10, 20, 100, 125, 200, 225, that they're all idiots?

    So yeah, I'm not sure if you're just mad about missing out or if he did in fact sleep with your wife.

    C'mon, seriously? Do you think this is appropriate? Smiley

    Being that I have no idea if he even has a wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend, then yes, I think it's appropriate since it implies he clearly has some personal axe to grind.

    No it is not appropriate, not here in Rennteam, so look around how others behave and learn, even your language/expressions are sometimes out of place here, but if you keep behaving like a troll who has nothing better to do with his time you will be dealt with as such, consider this a warning.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    The assets taken independently only matter if the company is being dismantled. Before that, someone will take everything minus the debt and original equity in an instant and maybe even some of the deposits...

     Any company looking to make a bid would need to conduct a fair value analysis of each and every tangible and intangible asset in the company’s portfolio.  Without undertaking that analysis, the bidding company would not fulfill its fiduciary duties to its shareholders.  

    In other dire news, JPMorgan analysts issued an underweight or sell for Tesla based on the emergent product from the majors.  https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/20/sell-tesla-shares-because-bmw-audi-competition-is-coming-jp-morgan.html?__source=yahoo%7Cfinance%7Cheadline%7Cstory%7C&par=yahoo&yptr=yahoo


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    What if you don’t have shareholders? smiley You and many just keep applying big old traditional company legacy thinking to a giant startup. That’s the key to such strong and opposite opinions about Tesla. And again I have no idea or skin in the game if Tesla will overcome its debt. But you need to take your head out of the sand for that one and think outside the box. I always like the underdogs. Apple was virtually bankrupt too, look where it is now... But that took vision Smiley


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    Carlos from Spain:
    noone1:
    RC:
    noone1:
    CGX car nut:

    He’ll choke on this one too but explain, as only he can, why the author’s article is without merit.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-19/tesla-s-cash-burn-has-elon-musk-s-dreams-living-on-borrowed-time

    What is so hard to understand about this? It. Doesn't. Matter. The stock can be worth $1 and it's irrelevant. No one in here gives a shit what the price of the stock is except you. 

    Fiat Chyrsler was worth only $8B a couple years ago and it was making like 4M cars per year. The market cap and stock price are irrelevant to Tesla existing and selling cars.

    Why the hell would any consumer care what a company is worth or how much money it makes?

    I don't know why you have such a hard-on for TSLA or Musk. Did he sleep with your wife or something? TSLA shareholders and Musk made shit loads of money -- you didn't. Deal with it. You've been wrong about the stock for how long now? Wat to tell everyone who bought it at 10, 20, 100, 125, 200, 225, that they're all idiots?

    So yeah, I'm not sure if you're just mad about missing out or if he did in fact sleep with your wife.

    C'mon, seriously? Do you think this is appropriate? Smiley

    Being that I have no idea if he even has a wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend, then yes, I think it's appropriate since it implies he clearly has some personal axe to grind.

    No it is not appropriate, not here in Rennteam, so look around how others behave and learn, even your language/expressions are sometimes out of place here, but if you keep behaving like a troll who has nothing better to do with his time you will be dealt with as such, consider this a warning.

     

    Better send a stern warning to Emmanuel then too, right?

    "How did it feel to accept you were wrong about something? Did your common sense allergy kick in and you broke out in hives?"


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    SciFrog:

    What if you don’t have shareholders? smiley You and many just keep applying big old traditional company legacy thinking to a giant startup. That’s the key to such strong and opposite opinions about Tesla. And again I have no idea or skin in the game if Tesla will overcome its debt. But you need to take your head out of the sand for that one and think outside the box. I always like the underdogs. Apple was virtually bankrupt too, look where it is now... But that took vision Smiley

    Vision and solid management.  Jobs knew his business, though management style could be rough, at times. 

    In a bankruptcy, senior bond holders become the owners of the assets. They and the Court basically determine the outcome.   The process is based on the “Rule of Law” and has nothing to do with thinking in or out of the box.  


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    CGX car nut:
    SciFrog:

    The assets taken independently only matter if the company is being dismantled. Before that, someone will take everything minus the debt and original equity in an instant and maybe even some of the deposits...

     Any company looking to make a bid would need to conduct a fair value analysis of each and every tangible and intangible asset in the company’s portfolio.  Without undertaking that analysis, the bidding company would not fulfill its fiduciary duties to its shareholders.  

    In other dire news, JPMorgan analysts issued an underweight or sell for Tesla based on the emergent product from the majors.  https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/20/sell-tesla-shares-because-bmw-audi-competition-is-coming-jp-morgan.html?__source=yahoo%7Cfinance%7Cheadline%7Cstory%7C&par=yahoo&yptr=yahoo


    LOL. Show me a list of big companies who got successfully sued by shareholders for overpaying? Google even went into an asset auction bidding $3.141592B as a joke.

    Of course any bidding company would do analysis. Why wouldn't they? Doesn't mean shareholders have to agree with it or will actually do anything to stop it.


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:
    CGX car nut:
    SciFrog:

    The assets taken independently only matter if the company is being dismantled. Before that, someone will take everything minus the debt and original equity in an instant and maybe even some of the deposits...

     Any company looking to make a bid would need to conduct a fair value analysis of each and every tangible and intangible asset in the company’s portfolio.  Without undertaking that analysis, the bidding company would not fulfill its fiduciary duties to its shareholders.  

    In other dire news, JPMorgan analysts issued an underweight or sell for Tesla based on the emergent product from the majors.  https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/20/sell-tesla-shares-because-bmw-audi-competition-is-coming-jp-morgan.html?__source=yahoo%7Cfinance%7Cheadline%7Cstory%7C&par=yahoo&yptr=yahoo


    LOL. Show me a list of big companies who got successfully sued by shareholders for overpaying? Google even went into an asset auction bidding $3.141592B as a joke.

    Of course any bidding company would do analysis. Why wouldn't they? Doesn't mean shareholders have to agree with it or will actually do anything to stop it.

    Here’s one: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-shareholders/tesla-shareholder-lawsuit-against-solarcity-deal-set-to-proceed-idUSKBN1H43A3


    Re: Tesla Roadster

    noone1:
    Carlos from Spain:
    noone1:
    RC:
    noone1:
    CGX car nut:

    He’ll choke on this one too but explain, as only he can, why the author’s article is without merit.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-19/tesla-s-cash-burn-has-elon-musk-s-dreams-living-on-borrowed-time

    What is so hard to understand about this? It. Doesn't. Matter. The stock can be worth $1 and it's irrelevant. No one in here gives a shit what the price of the stock is except you. 

    Fiat Chyrsler was worth only $8B a couple years ago and it was making like 4M cars per year. The market cap and stock price are irrelevant to Tesla existing and selling cars.

    Why the hell would any consumer care what a company is worth or how much money it makes?

    I don't know why you have such a hard-on for TSLA or Musk. Did he sleep with your wife or something? TSLA shareholders and Musk made shit loads of money -- you didn't. Deal with it. You've been wrong about the stock for how long now? Wat to tell everyone who bought it at 10, 20, 100, 125, 200, 225, that they're all idiots?

    So yeah, I'm not sure if you're just mad about missing out or if he did in fact sleep with your wife.

    C'mon, seriously? Do you think this is appropriate? Smiley

    Being that I have no idea if he even has a wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend, then yes, I think it's appropriate since it implies he clearly has some personal axe to grind.

    No it is not appropriate, not here in Rennteam, so look around how others behave and learn, even your language/expressions are sometimes out of place here, but if you keep behaving like a troll who has nothing better to do with his time you will be dealt with as such, consider this a warning.

     

    Better send a stern warning to Emmanuel then too, right?

    "How did it feel to accept you were wrong about something? Did your common sense allergy kick in and you broke out in hives?"

    his post and his tone it's not is not comparable to yours, and Emmanuel has an immaculate record in the forum and is well liked by all, unlike you whos negativety and bitterness is all you seem to contribure to the forum, this is just one more example, so it's up to you, but there is a point we're enough is enough. This is a place were people come to share their opinions and experiences and discuss in a friendly and mature atmosphere, if you want to use this for something else then this is not for you.


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 2/14/19 1:26 AM
    watt
    331029 2045
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 2/19/19 8:30 PM
    Enmanuel
     
     
     
     
     
    218331 1122
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 2/15/19 11:05 AM
    RCA
    146072 2579
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/20/19 2:12 AM
    KMM
    61515 806
    Porsche Sticky Paint protection film 2/18/19 9:28 AM
    RCA
    16301 149
    Porsche Sticky Child seats in a 991 11/29/18 3:43 PM
    RCA
    14681 35
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet 2/18/19 11:28 AM
    RCA
    10212 127
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 2/18/19 8:51 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    3219 60
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 1/4/19 7:02 PM
    Topspeed
    486895 4255
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 2/19/19 11:40 PM
    4trac
    422349 5222
    Porsche 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) Thread Closed 11/29/18 11:38 AM
    RCA
    317867 3195
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/31/18 2:19 AM
    DJM48
    286665 2598
    Porsche Cayman GT4 2/19/19 8:00 PM
    dreamcar
    280640 2760
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 1/30/19 3:10 AM
    ha
    219494 2777
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 1/17/19 8:13 PM
    GoHardGT3RS
    195606 1789
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 2/18/19 10:28 AM
    RCA
    191595 3355
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 12/17/18 12:42 PM
    RCA
    157774 2491
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 8/31/18 10:25 AM
    WAY
    144616 757
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 5/22/18 9:16 PM
    RCA
    113016 789
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 5/3/18 7:52 PM
    CGX car nut
    107927 871
    Porsche Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 2/18/19 1:00 PM
    RCA
    99105 1370
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 12/7/18 10:15 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    68841 673
    Others Tesla Roadster 2/19/19 4:12 PM
    SciFrog
    57379 1725
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models 11/3/18 11:09 AM
    bluelines
    48425 477
    Others Tesla Model X Thread Closed 2/23/18 3:41 PM
    RCA
    43579 1122
    AMG AMG GT R 11/30/18 4:10 PM
    RCA
    43141 605
    Lambo Aventador and SV 11/19/18 8:31 AM
    RCA
    40859 472
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo S Exclusive Series (2017) 12/4/18 3:17 PM
    BiTurbo
    40618 650
    AMG Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 2/14/19 1:44 PM
    RCA
    40285 387
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Porsche Carrera T 12/13/18 2:27 PM
    RCA
    39212 804
    268 items found, displaying 1 to 30.