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    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    How much difference will it make in real life?...and you will take a massive depreciation hit in the first 1-2 years with this car...


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    wantone:

    How much difference will it make in real life?...and you will take a massive depreciation hit in the first 1-2 years with this car...

    This is why we lease these cars over here... Smiley

    Difference in real life?

    Well, let me see:

    1. Red light races? Turbo S winner. Check.

    2. Autobahn? Turbo S winner. Check.

    3. Track? Turbo S winner...if you do not do some serious racing over more than a couple of rounds. Check.

    What did you say again? Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    If you want to drive fast on a straight you can do it with any turbo car with mods (Mitsu, Supra and the likes) for the price of the 1st year depreciation of the Turbo S...

    Paying the same price for a 1640kg turbo 991 vs a light 991 R/RS with carbon parts and magnesium roof just because it is faster on the straights is madness IMO.

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    wantone:

    If you want to drive fast on a straight you can do it with any turbo car with mods (Mitsu, Supra and the likes) for the price of the 1st year depreciation of the Turbo S...

    You are kidding, right? Those old cars you mentioned may be interesting for the US but in Germany, you won't find many (if any) with street legal registration and that kind of power. Not even talking about the weird drive feel for these (old) cars. I don't even know why you are saying this because it makes no sense whatsoever to me. Smiley

    Paying the same price for a 1640kg turbo 991 vs a light 991 R/RS with carbon parts and magnesium roof just because it is faster on the straights is madness IMO.

    The new 991 Turbo S is not only faster on the straights, it basically outruns any unmodified GT3/GT3RS on the track...on road tires. It may not last (brakes, tires) more than a couple of rounds but for amateur drivers, perfect). Also, much easier to handle (vs. the GT models) for less experienced drivers. Also wonderful daily drivers, incl. bad weather like rain and snow. I would have never parted with my Turbo S if the sound wasn't that bad, making the car a very boring weekend toy (you cannot drive full speed or with full throttle in this car on public roads without risking to lose your license, so the sound is a part of the emotional involvement but the Turbo S unfortunately lacked it).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    KresoF1:

    I wanted to post same test.kiss

    So, basically new 991.2 Turbo is at least as fast as 991.1 Turbo S in straight line. Excellent results IMO.

    So people may realize now how good the new Turbo S is... 

    Any expectation how much faster TTS will be on TT?


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    wantone:

    How much difference will it make in real life?...and you will take a massive depreciation hit in the first 1-2 years with this car...

    This is why we lease these cars over here... Smiley

    Difference in real life?

    Well, let me see:

    1. Red light races? Turbo S winner. Check.

    2. Autobahn? Turbo S winner. Check.

    3. Track? Turbo S winner...if you do not do some serious racing over more than a couple of rounds. Check.

    What did you say again? Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     

    Looks and feeling: un-check


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Price: un-check.

    You can buy a one year old FF for the price of a 991TTS...


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    The test price on that car was 200K Euro! That's nuts.


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    noone1:

    The test price on that car was 200K Euro! That's nuts.

    As long as they're selling like hot cakes, why not overcharge in the future Smiley

    You either boycott them for what they've become or just get dragged into it and slap a Porsche logo on to your forehead to defend it for the rest of your life Smiley

    Same goes for its rivals, some people would even start shouting and fighting to prove how loyal they are to the brand Smiley

    I see it this way, the R and RS are the overpriced 911's compared to the standard Turbo:

    - Low Torque (Applies to all N/a Engines)
    - No AWD
    - No rear seats
    - No Sunroof
    - Gear Ratios on the Turbo are shorter than R "WTF!!"
    - Stuck with one Gearbox (R: Manual & RS+Turbo: PDK)
    - Dry Weight on 2WD cars look promising, until it gets all filled up with fluids and driver. Carrera GT: on paper weighs 1,380 kg and in reality 1,473 kg.
    - R/RS Can't be used as an everyday, all season car, unless you want to swap out summer for winter tires and take your chances in a rwd car.

    Yet you're paying close to 200k for all three R / RS / Turbo, it's a tricky purschase, you must give it a lot of thought if you really want the 911 so badly. I'd jump on the R or now that all are hinting at a future GT3 with a manual and wait for it,  if I could rely on a dealer that would know a thing or two about working on 911's.


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    BiTurbo:
    - Gear Ratios on the Turbo are shorter than R "WTF!!"

    I don't think this is true - it looks that way when you compare speed in gears, because the redline for the Turbo is so much lower. 


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Grant:
    BiTurbo:
    - Gear Ratios on the Turbo are shorter than R "WTF!!"

    I don't think this is true - it looks that way when you compare speed in gears, because the redline for the Turbo is so much lower. 

    1: 3.91
    2: 2.29
    3: 1.58
    4: 1.18
    5: 0.94
    6: 0.79
    7: 0.62

    Final Drive Ratio: 3.44

    2nd gear @ Peak Power for the Turbo: 105 km/h  vs 140 km/h (R)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    BiTurbo:
    Grant:
    BiTurbo:
    - Gear Ratios on the Turbo are shorter than R "WTF!!"

    I don't think this is true - it looks that way when you compare speed in gears, because the redline for the Turbo is so much lower. 

    1: 3.91
    2: 2.29
    3: 1.58
    4: 1.18
    5: 0.94
    6: 0.79
    7: 0.62

    Final Drive Ratio: 3.44

    2nd gear @ Peak Power for the Turbo: 105 km/h  vs 140 km/h (R)

     

    What are the ratios for the R (including final drive)?  What is Peak Power RPM for Turbo


    --

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Grant:

    What are the ratios for the R (including final drive)? 

     Nothing official has been released yet for the R, but according to this article

    http://www.automobilemag.com/news/an-idiot-savant-guide-to-the-new-porsche-911-r/

    'Porsche fiddled with the gear ratios, but the 911 R still appears cursed with gearing that’s far too tall, a problem that seems to dilute a bit of the fun in all modern Porsche models equipped with a manual gearbox. Sure, the R is light by today’s standards — at 3,021 pounds — and has a rather potent 500 horsepower and 338-lb-ft of torque, but 87 mph at redline in second gear is too tall for the road.'

    What is Peak Power RPM for Turbo

    540 hp @ 6400 rpm

    0 - 100: 2,9 (P Zero) vs 3,8 (Cup 2) if not 4,x with a lousy driver  Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    SciFrog:

    Price: un-check.

    You can buy a one year old FF for the price of a 991TTS...

    Honestly, I would not even switch a new FF for a TTS... The Ferrari is just a compromise.


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

      ↵

    Grant:

    What are the ratios for the R (including final drive)? 

     Nothing official has been released yet for the R, but according to this article

    http://www.automobilemag.com/news/an-idiot-savant-guide-to-the-new-porsche-911-r/

    'Porsche fiddled with the gear ratios, but the 911 R still appears cursed with gearing that’s far too tall, a problem that seems to dilute a bit of the fun in all modern Porsche models equipped with a manual gearbox. Sure, the R is light by today’s standards — at 3,021 pounds — and has a rather potent 500 horsepower and 338-lb-ft of torque, but 87 mph at redline in second gear is too tall for the road.'

    What is Peak Power RPM for Turbo?

    540 hp @ 6400 rpm

     

    There may be some discrepancy between your mention of peak power with what I call redline (not the same thing).

    But, if the R goes 140 kph at 8,800 rpm (some argument between 8,600 and 8,800 rpm) and the Turbo goes 105 kph at peak power of 6,400 rpm, then the R has Lower gears:

    R goes 15.91 kph per 1,000 rpm

    Turbo goes 16.41 kph per 1,000 rpm

    If you use the R's redline at 8,600 rpm then the R is STILL Lower geared at 16.28 kph per 1,000 rpm in 2nd Gear

    If you use the Turbo's redline instead of peak power things are different, so you need to let me know how you arrived at your answer (105 kph at redline would seem very low gearing, so I think maybe peak power is indeed what you meant, but the R goes much less than 140 kph at its peak power in 2nd gear which is 8,250 rpm).

    BTW, the R's gearing is lower than the GT4's and it weighs about the same and has more torque and 115 hp more than the GT4...


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Btw, official name of 911R gearbox is 6-gang GT-sportschaltgetriebe.

    And offical 0-200km/his11.6s while top spped as achieved at 8450rpmin 6th.


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    KresoF1:

    Btw, official name of 911R gearbox is 6-gang GT-sportschaltgetriebe.

    Exactly, it is not just a manual, but a GT Sport Manual Transmission Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    SciFrog:

    Price: un-check.

    You can buy a one year old FF for the price of a 991TTS...

    While they depreciate like mad, the cheapest 2015 FF currently listed on Hemmings, Autotrader and cars.com is $260k. $70k more than a US Turbo S.

    My left brain is screaming to pick up a 2014 or so as my next car, but a Ferrari is a toy, not a car.


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Grant:

    There may be some discrepancy between your mention of peak power with what I call redline (not the same thing).

    But, if the R goes 140 kph at 8,800 rpm (some argument between 8,600 and 8,800 rpm) and the Turbo goes 105 kph at peak power of 6,400 rpm, then the R has Lower gears:

    R goes 15.91 kph per 1,000 rpm

    Turbo goes 16.41 kph per 1,000 rpm

    If you use the R's redline at 8,600 rpm then the R is STILL Lower geared at 16.28 kph per 1,000 rpm in 2nd Gear

    If you use the Turbo's redline instead of peak power things are different, so you need to let me know how you arrived at your answer (105 kph at redline would seem very low gearing, so I think maybe peak power is indeed what you meant, but the R goes much less than 140 kph at its peak power in 2nd gear which is 8,250 rpm).

    BTW, the R's gearing is lower than the GT4's and it weighs about the same and has more torque and 115 hp more than the GT4...

    The Turbo at redline would be closer to...I'd say 119 km/h and don't forget the amount of torque that will back it up in lower gears + AWD for best possible traction on non-cup tires. PDK is too clever, you either shift at peak power or let it do it for you at redline, it won't be an easy job for most of the amatuers in a manual.

    So far, the manual gearing has been a bit dull in the 991 series, but I'll wait for upcoming reviews and see how many will curse 2nd gear Smiley

    This is a different story with the proper gearing in limited quantity Smiley

    https://youtu.be/VI-fLokjOxI


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    There is a 2014 FF for sale for $190k somewhere, $250k was the price last summer, don't get fooled by asking prices at dealers, they sell nowhere near that, prices are dropping like stone since the Lusso introduction, dealers refuse to take cars on their floor... My Ferraris have been more reliable than my Porsches and sorry but both the 911 and Ferraris are all toys. Everyone who has a FF raves about them drive put lots of miles on them, no different than a 911 turbo. Today Ferraris are so much better than hey were 15 years ago...


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    bluelines:
    KresoF1:

    Btw, official name of 911R gearbox is 6-gang GT-sportschaltgetriebe.

    Exactly, it is not just a manual, but a GT Sport Manual Transmission Smiley

    That's gotta be worth how much over a manual, let alone PDK? $20K?


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    KresoF1:

    Btw, official name of 911R gearbox is 6-gang GT-sportschaltgetriebe.

    And offical 0-200km/his11.6s while top spped as achieved at 8450rpmin 6th.

    That means only 23.8 mph per 1,000 rpm in 6th gear.  That is pretty low gearing.  Anything less than 25 mph/1k rpm feels pretty low on the highway...

    Porsche has made the lower gears pretty tall in its manuals, but has really aggressive gearing in the top ratios (this is good for Germany with Autobahns and fast tracks).

    BTW, the GT4 does 0-200kph in 14.5s, so almost 3 sec quicker for R (must feel pretty good).  Still a little slower (0.7s) than RS which does in 10.9s (couldn't find the 0-200 for GT3 on Porsche.com, but I bet it's very close to R).


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Grant:

    ...the GT4 does 0-200kph in 14.5s, so almost 3 sec quicker for R (must feel pretty good).

    Numbers, numbers, numbers. In real life the space-time continuum will warp, due to the insane fun in the GT4, and the experienced 0-200kph is less than 10s (does feel insanely good) Smiley


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    The conclusion: 991.2 TTS will be insanely fast. I expect 9.3-9.4

     secs for 0-200 kmh. No R/GT/GT3RS will be capble to compete in straight line or on track.

    i darely inagine how fast will be 992 TTS, it will storm the highest peaks in terms of performance.


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    I suspect it will also be insanely boring. The worlds fastest vacuum cleaner. Whoosh!

    The faster the Turbo gets, the more boring it seems to get too. I test drove one not so long ago and it felt like driving around in a fast, comfortable and refined mathematical model. Theoretically correct, practically unexciting.


    --

    2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    I have yet to hear what a 991 turbo sounds like. They are so quiet...


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Grant:
    KresoF1:

    Btw, official name of 911R gearbox is 6-gang GT-sportschaltgetriebe.

    And offical 0-200km/his11.6s while top spped as achieved at 8450rpmin 6th.

    That means only 23.8 mph per 1,000 rpm in 6th gear.  That is pretty low gearing.  Anything less than 25 mph/1k rpm feels pretty low on the highway...

    Porsche has made the lower gears pretty tall in its manuals, but has really aggressive gearing in the top ratios (this is good for Germany with Autobahns and fast tracks).

    BTW, the GT4 does 0-200kph in 14.5s, so almost 3 sec quicker for R (must feel pretty good).  Still a little slower (0.7s) than RS which does in 10.9s (couldn't find the 0-200 for GT3 on Porsche.com, but I bet it's very close to R).


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

     

    991.1 GT3 offical 0-200km/h is 11.4s


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    KresoF1:
    Grant:
    KresoF1:

    Btw, official name of 911R gearbox is 6-gang GT-sportschaltgetriebe.

    And offical 0-200km/his11.6s while top spped as achieved at 8450rpmin 6th.

    That means only 23.8 mph per 1,000 rpm in 6th gear.  That is pretty low gearing.  Anything less than 25 mph/1k rpm feels pretty low on the highway...

    Porsche has made the lower gears pretty tall in its manuals, but has really aggressive gearing in the top ratios (this is good for Germany with Autobahns and fast tracks).

    BTW, the GT4 does 0-200kph in 14.5s, so almost 3 sec quicker for R (must feel pretty good).  Still a little slower (0.7s) than RS which does in 10.9s (couldn't find the 0-200 for GT3 on Porsche.com, but I bet it's very close to R).


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     

     

    991.1 GT3 offical 0-200km/h is 11.4s

    Thanks - so only 0.2 faster than R (probably more than that much comes from launch control...)


    --

     

     

    16 Cayman GT4, 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    SciFrog:

    Price: un-check.

    You can buy a one year old FF for the price of a 991TTS...

    FF is much slower... No dealership at almost every corner (Europe)...911 is socially acceptable in many parts of Europe...etc. etc. etc. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: new 991.2 Turbo and Turbo S

    Maybe but one is a dull vacuum cleaner with the same interior as a $50k boxster and the other is a bespoke V12 Ferrari with a magnificent interior with leather from Poltrona Frau... To each his own wink


     
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