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    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    kudryavchik:

    As I know Cayenne has already competed in Transsyberia, but I don't know with what success.

    I followed Porsche's  participation through the media. They won convincingly the 2 or 3 times they took part, but competition was weak really. Besides this race doesn't get wide publicity internationally.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    RC:

    Cayenne - Paris Dakar and Panamera (of course with a much lower weight ) in the V8 super cars series, I agree.

    It didn't happen though and while the Panamera and Cayenne GTS are interesting approaches to a more sportier image of these models, I kind of don't see the point of these cars (other than being cheaper than the top models). Why not make the Cayenne Turbo and Panamera Turbo S lighter and sportier? yes

    The F1 racing series was just an example, I'm just not a friend of motorsports with cars which will never make it to the streets. I like the Clubsport scene in Germany much more but even here, things get more and more professional and you need a lot of money and sponsors to be able to compete.

    The major point is to wide the range without spending lots of money on developng of new, less expensive car.

    This generation cayenne is 200 kgs lighter that previous, Lets see what will they do with new generations of Panamera and Cayenne.

     


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    reginos:
    kudryavchik:

    As I know Cayenne has already competed in Transsyberia, but I don't know with what success.

    I followed Porsche's  participation through the media. They won convincingly the 2 or 3 times they took part, but competition was weak really. Besides this race doesn't get wide publicity internationally.

    Thank you for infoSmiley What was the competition?


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    The next generation Panamera will be at least 100 kg lighter because it will be based on a completely different platform. I see only one possible issue here: Handling. The current Panamera has been a 100% Porsche development, they built it from scratch to allow that amazing handling for such a big and heavy car. Not sure if the next generation platform will not limit Porsche in the handling department. I truly hope not.

    I am also a little bit worried about V8 engine development, to be honest. Why? Well: The Turbo S engine of the Panamera uses the titan impeller turbo chargers which apparently have their production/quality issues. For a manufacturer like Porsche, it should be pretty easy to modify the V8 4.8 l engine in a way to be able to use conventional turbo chargers and still get 550 hp or even 600 hp out of it without a major sweat. Apparently, this doesn't and didn't happen, so I really ask myself...why? Is it about certification (they can't just change the engine, the need to certify it afterwards for street legal usage) or about durability? Is the 4.8 l turbo engine at it's power end? I highly doubt that, some tuners squeeze over 650 and even 700 horses out of the same engine.

    Interesting times ahead but I have to confess that I am very very excited about the next generation Turbo (991 Turbo). 

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    RC:
    reginos:


    Ferrari are diversifying too (California and FF so far) but in a cautious way. They are treating their brand with extreme care and respect and take short but prudent steps. I am honestly very disappointed with Porsche's cynical and greedy path.

    Why do people always compare Porsche to Ferrari? Smiley In my opinion, Porsche is comparable to Mercedes AMG and BMW M but not necessarily Ferrari or Lamborghini.

    Mainly because for many years  Porsche and Ferrari were both the major dedicated sportscar manufacturers competing on the road and on the track. German engineering and reserved style against Italian flair and flamboyance.

    The 917 vs 512 battles are part of motorsport history and went into the consciousness of us all car fans.

    Ferrari 308/328 GTB drivers were uneasy because of the existence of the 911 Turbo and they aspired to it. I don't think a 458 owner today aspires to a Turbo S, no matter how fast and trustworthy the German car is. If you could find one he is the exception that reinforces the rule.

    It is very sad that Porsche's dilution of character allowed late starters like ex-tuner AMG  and the  ///M Department  to be mentioned in the same context as themselves and often to outrun them on and off the track. very disappointing.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    kudryavchik:
    reginos:
    kudryavchik:

    As I know Cayenne has already competed in Transsyberia, but I don't know with what success.

    I followed Porsche's  participation through the media. They won convincingly the 2 or 3 times they took part, but competition was weak really. Besides this race doesn't get wide publicity internationally.

    Thank you for infoSmiley What was the competition?

    http://www.transsyberia-rallye.com/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsyberia_rally


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    RC:

    The next generation Panamera will be at least 100 kg lighter because it will be based on a completely different platform. I see only one possible issue here: Handling. The current Panamera has been a 100% Porsche development, they built it from scratch to allow that amazing handling for such a big and heavy car. Not sure if the next generation platform will not limit Porsche in the handling department. I truly hope not.

    I am also a little bit worried about V8 engine development, to be honest. Why? Well: The Turbo S engine of the Panamera uses the titan impeller turbo chargers which apparently have their production/quality issues. For a manufacturer like Porsche, it should be pretty easy to modify the V8 4.8 l engine in a way to be able to use conventional turbo chargers and still get 550 hp or even 600 hp out of it without a major sweat. Apparently, this doesn't and didn't happen, so I really ask myself...why? Is it about certification (they can't just change the engine, the need to certify it afterwards for street legal usage) or about durability? Is the 4.8 l turbo engine at it's power end? I highly doubt that, some tuners squeeze over 650 and even 700 horses out of the same engine.

    Interesting times ahead but I have to confess that I am very very excited about the next generation Turbo (991 Turbo). 

     

    I think that the point with turbo is not in power output. I am not an engine guru but maybe they use titan because there is a very high temperature for conventional materials or maybe because titan is mich lighter it let them to improve throttle response? 

    Actually I haven't driven such expensive cars, so this is my guess)


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    reginos:
    RC:
    reginos:

     

    Ferrari are diversifying too (California and FF so far) but in a cautious way. They are treating their brand with extreme care and respect and take short but prudent steps. I am honestly very disappointed with Porsche's cynical and greedy path.

    Why do people always compare Porsche to Ferrari? Smiley In my opinion, Porsche is comparable to Mercedes AMG and BMW M but not necessarily Ferrari or Lamborghini.

    Mainly because for many years  Porsche and Ferrari were both the major dedicated sportscar manufacturers competing on the road and on the track. German engineering and reserved style against Italian flair and flamboyance.

    The 917 vs 512 battles are part of motorsport history and went into the consciousness of us all car fans.

    Ferrari 308/328 GTB drivers were uneasy because of the existence of the 911 Turbo and they aspired to it. I don't think a 458 owner today aspires to a Turbo S, no matter how fast and trustworthy the German car is. If you could find one he is the exception that reinforces the rule.

    It is very sad that Porsche's dilution of character allowed late starters like ex-tuner AMG  and the  ///M Department  to be mentioned in the same context as themselves and often to outrun them on and off the track. very disappointing.

    Turbo S if I am not wrong appeared before 458 Italia. It was an answer to 430 scuderia mostly. We definitely should wait for a new model. Todays Porsche model range is under great reconstruction, lets see the new turbo S;)

    After 917 vs 512 battle Porsche proved to be a strongest Engineering company(especially researches in materials like aluminium, titanium, berillium, nicasil and etc). After that period there was no ferrari that outpaced Porsche on track;) Actually, as I have read in Racing Silver Arrows book, by 90's Porsche was considered the company that can win anyhing and anyone. The only mistake they did when they built footwork engine.

    Thank you for links;)

    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    With the titan impellers, the boost pressure is available much earlier (they spool up faster), thus you could say that the turbo lag is reduced and throttle response would be better too.

    However: Is this really necessary to achieve an additional 50 hp only? With larger "conventional" turbo chargers, a modified motronic software and some adaptations to the exhaust/headers, 50 hp or even more power should have been possible without major issues. So why use the "titan" turbo chargers? To prove to the customer that he really gets something for the additional money? Maybe but it still sounds weird.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    RC:

    With the titan impellers, the boost pressure is available much earlier (they spool up faster), thus you could say that the turbo lag is reduced and throttle response would be better too.

    However: Is this really necessary to achieve an additional 50 hp only? With larger "conventional" turbo chargers, a modified motronic software and some adaptations to the exhaust/headers, 50 hp or even more power should have been possible without major issues. So why use the "titan" turbo chargers? To prove to the customer that he really gets something for the additional money? Maybe but it still sounds weird.

    Compromise between power|response|arranging|thermal management?

    If you put larger turbos you get more power but more lag too...


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Porsche use turbines with variable pitch vanes in an attempt to have the best of both, but only in the 911 and the Diesel.

    http://www.porsche.com/microsite/technology/default.aspx?pool=uk&ShowSingleTechterm=PTVTG&Category=&Model=&Searc...


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    ...Rennteam at its very best...

    To all you guys: kiss


    --


    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    reginos:

    Porsche use turbines with variable pitch vanes in an attempt to have the best of both, but only in the 911 and the Diesel.

    http://www.porsche.com/microsite/technology/default.aspx?pool=uk&ShowSingleTechterm=PTVTG&Category=&Model=&Searc...

    Yes, the 997 Turbo was actually the first petrol run car worldwide with VTG turbo chargers but I also remember that tuners hated them. Smiley

    I actually wonder why Porsche doesn't use VTG chargers in the Panamera Turbo and Turbo S, so maybe this technology isn't really delivering the benefit everybody has hoped for. I am curious about the next generation Turbo, the 991 Turbo...VTG chargers or not?! Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    kudryavchik:
    Spyderidol:
    kudryavchik:
    Spyderidol:

    again - We are/were talking about current/recent Porsche racing. Porsche has concentrated since 1989 in GT racing with the exception of the 3 year LMP2 RS Spyder project... and even that has transferred its tech to raod going cars. (see the upcoming 918)

    Why you have forgotten Porsche 911 gt1 and Joest car?

    LMP2 Porsche was made in 2005, 918 - 2013. 8 years of deriving... Not a short time.


    --

    sportcars-history.com

    Not forgotten. The GT1 - although really a protoype, was in fact the then top call which was a GT calss. Remembr the Mclaren F1?

    The Porsche 911 GT1 was a car designed for competition in the GT1 class of sportscar racing, which also required a street legal version for homologation purposes. The limited-production street-legal version was labeled the 911 GT1 Straßenversion (Street version).

    Mclaren F1 was a series car that was scaled up to racing, gt1 was a pure racing car, that was homologated. Even gt1'98 was homologated with 1 car.

    2 different approaches.

    Ok - Lets not get carried away. I think you understand that I know what I'm talking about. The GT1 was a GT class. (Thus the name). Now we can discuss to death the minutia involved. I think you understand the point i was making .

     


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Spyderidol:
    kudryavchik:
    Spyderidol:
    kudryavchik:
    Spyderidol:

    again - We are/were talking about current/recent Porsche racing. Porsche has concentrated since 1989 in GT racing with the exception of the 3 year LMP2 RS Spyder project... and even that has transferred its tech to raod going cars. (see the upcoming 918)

    Why you have forgotten Porsche 911 gt1 and Joest car?

    LMP2 Porsche was made in 2005, 918 - 2013. 8 years of deriving... Not a short time.


    --

    sportcars-history.com

    Not forgotten. The GT1 - although really a protoype, was in fact the then top call which was a GT calss. Remembr the Mclaren F1?

    The Porsche 911 GT1 was a car designed for competition in the GT1 class of sportscar racing, which also required a street legal version for homologation purposes. The limited-production street-legal version was labeled the 911 GT1 Straßenversion (Street version).

    Mclaren F1 was a series car that was scaled up to racing, gt1 was a pure racing car, that was homologated. Even gt1'98 was homologated with 1 car.

    2 different approaches.

    Ok - Lets not get carried away. I think you understand that I know what I'm talking about. The GT1 was a GT class. (Thus the name). Now we can discuss to death the minutia involved. I think you understand the point i was making .

     

    Actually most of these gt cars were protorypes, mclaren was not. That is almost the same with 917 era. I think no one will say that 917 is a modified road car. 

    All these names are formalities driven by regs, but sometimes they don't reflect the reality. 


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    The homologation of the 917 had noting to do with later homologation requirements, neither does it have to do with current homologation requirements. The 917 requirement were to build 25 cars. Not road-going cars.

    The current GT homologation requirements require that road going versions are built.

    Back to the point: Porsche has not built a top class prototype since the 956/962 era. (the GT1 was a GT class car. It so happens that the class was the top class at that time, but it was still a GT class).

    The point that was trying to be made (and if you read the interview with the Porsche NA VP you nwill find confirmation) is that racing is an integral part of Porsche heritage /History and development.  In fact, Porsche Motorsport is integrated into Research & Development group (unlike other manufacturers)


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    RC:
    reginos:

    Porsche use turbines with variable pitch vanes in an attempt to have the best of both, but only in the 911 and the Diesel.

    http://www.porsche.com/microsite/technology/default.aspx?pool=uk&ShowSingleTechterm=PTVTG&Category=&Model=&Searc...

    Yes, the 997 Turbo was actually the first petrol run car worldwide with VTG turbo chargers but I also remember that tuners hated them. Smiley

    I actually wonder why Porsche doesn't use VTG chargers in the Panamera Turbo and Turbo S, so maybe this technology isn't really delivering the benefit everybody has hoped for. I am curious about the next generation Turbo, the 991 Turbo...VTG chargers or not?! Smiley

    The problem with the VTGs apart from their complexity (which affects their reliability/longevity) is the heat that they generate. The hot side produces its maximum boost from ~2500rpm to 6500rpm so 4000rpm of maximum boost = loads of heat. For the GT2RS they developed the newer Spanish made intercoolers which enabled 620hp  but that 620hp soon reduces in ambient temperatures above 20C.

    The only way to produce more power with VTGs is to use exotic aerospace intercoolers which are way too expensive for mass production, they could increase the size of the VTG hot side (to cool it down - spin slower) but then the boost comes in later and the max boost will be at 3XXXrpm not 2XXX so defeating the object somewhat.

    The real benefit of VTGs is their response to the throttle, the way a VTG spins up is incredible and makes a K24 type turbo seem from a different era. In the age of idiocracy where many people only look at 0-200kph or simple in gear acceleration times on constant throttle the VTG engines do not appear to have a significant advantage but a side by side reveals all.

    With the Panamera/Cayenne being 4.8 litre my guess it simply does not need the complexity of VTG to hit the power/torque targets and I also expect that the packaging (ie turbos not hanging low in the air stream like a 911) probably creates way too much heat which is hard to control

     


    --



     

    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Maybe I was too young for that but decades ago Porsche offered the 924 and 944 which, albeit being an in-house development, were not boasting the same pedigree as the 928 and especially the 911. Didn´t people resent these cars back then as much as Cayenne and even Panamera nowadays? Porsche itself started off with cars based on Volkswagen Beetle drivetrains which they modified according to their needs. Did people resent their technical and historical linkage? A few years ago we were debating that Porsche is loosing their edge over the competition and that they rightfully had to up their game. Now they come up with technical solutions (PDCC, PDK, PTV, etc.) yet people complain that they became too expensive, they release entirely new models yet they departed too far from their heritage (I agree though that the base price has increased substantially and subjectively unjustified).

    I do not have a problem with Porsche offering a variety of models that are further off the sportscar ideology, nor do I have an issue with Volkswagen providing the technical basis. I do believe though that Porsche has to remain the engineering-driven company that has gained this marvelous reputation over the years. I do see a general trend in motoring industry that marketing and accountants play a significant role and are able to mislead a certain amount of people in their opinion. The people on this board are mostly enthusiasts that are able to see behind the facade and have the proper insight to the subject. 

    Whether we like Porsche´s direction or not, they play by the rules of today´s industry and all I can say is that they have some tremendous people working for the brand. This doesn´t mean that they are faultless but they usually have the edge over their competitors. Porsche has gone from a virtually bankrupt company at the beginning of the 90ies to a over-efficient venture that earned more money with finance than with producing cars to a daughter company from Volkswagen that has to defend its role in the corporation´s grid. All I personally want is Porsche to put back the focus on their engineering talent and provide us with some proper cars. 


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    RC:

    I actually wonder why Porsche doesn't use VTG chargers in the Panamera Turbo and Turbo S, so maybe this technology isn't really delivering the benefit everybody has hoped for. I am curious about the next generation Turbo, the 991 Turbo...VTG chargers or not?! Smiley


    Since the 4.8 litre V8 channels through more air at the same RPM than the 3.6/3.8 litre I6, there might be no need for the VTG system as the benefit might not be as high. On the other hand, spool up time is significantly related to accelerated mass and since turbochargers spin with several thousand RPM a lighter titanium variant would influence this on every engine configuration. The fact that this solution proves more difficult in production is of course unsatisfactory to the customer but possible when adopting such new materials or technology. It´s certainly obvious that any malfunction of the turbochargers can result in significant additional damage inside the engine.


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Ferdie:

    Maybe I was too young for that but decades ago Porsche offered the 924 and 944 which, albeit being an in-house development, were not boasting the same pedigree as the 928 and especially the 911. Didn´t people resent these cars back then as much as Cayenne and even Panamera nowadays? Porsche itself started off with cars based on Volkswagen Beetle drivetrains which they modified according to their needs. Did people resent their technical and historical linkage? A few years ago we were debating that Porsche is loosing their edge over the competition and that they rightfully had to up their game. Now they come up with technical solutions (PDCC, PDK, PTV, etc.) yet people complain that they became too expensive, they release entirely new models yet they departed too far from their heritage (I agree though that the base price has increased substantially and subjectively unjustified).

    I do not have a problem with Porsche offering a variety of models that are further off the sportscar ideology, nor do I have an issue with Volkswagen providing the technical basis. I do believe though that Porsche has to remain the engineering-driven company that has gained this marvelous reputation over the years. I do see a general trend in motoring industry that marketing and accountants play a significant role and are able to mislead a certain amount of people in their opinion. The people on this board are mostly enthusiasts that are able to see behind the facade and have the proper insight to the subject. 

    Whether we like Porsche´s direction or not, they play by the rules of today´s industry and all I can say is that they have some tremendous people working for the brand. This doesn´t mean that they are faultless but they usually have the edge over their competitors. Porsche has gone from a virtually bankrupt company at the beginning of the 90ies to a over-efficient venture that earned more money with finance than with producing cars to a daughter company from Volkswagen that has to defend its role in the corporation´s grid. All I personally want is Porsche to put back the focus on their engineering talent and provide us with some proper cars. 

    Your exposition above is very good but let me add a few points.

    The time 924/944 existed good cars in terms of looks, build quality and handling were few and far between so these basic Porsche in spite of their limitations they were still special. This cannot be said of some models in the Cayenne, Panamera and even Boxster ranges. You cannot offer a 250 PS engine on a 2 tonne + car and call it a Porsche when BMW can do much better at 60% of the price. This drags the image and credibility of the whole brand down and it will cost in the longer. IMO a Porsche should have a minimum power/weight ratio before it is signed off for production.

    Another point is the cost of additional equipment. Everything is extra on Porsche and at a hefty cost compared not to Japanese but to German cars. I had a chance to inspect a BMW Gran Coupe the other day. A superb car in all respects with everything at a fraction of the Panamera price. People are not stupid and they don't like to waste money because a marketing blurb describes something which really is not.

    Cynical accountants push for very ordinary models in terms of performance and equipment  and they cream the profit and marketeers knowingly sell a badge with little substance. This approach might be OK for naive markets for now but it is a very short term strategy. Porsche is not a company leading in engineering innovation anymore, but following with some delay. That role has been taken over by companies like BMW and Audi both in public perception and in reality.

    We want cars from Porsche to make the impact the 911 Turbo made in 1974 a technical tour de force like the 959, a prototype legend like the 956/962 and a successful engine like the TAG-Porsche again. These will make us believe again.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    1339867694158clapping_hands.gif


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Spyderidol:

    RC - You are making a common error in equating F1 with all racing. There is so much racing other than F1. It just doesn't get the mainstream media coverage of F1.

    Here in the good ol' US of A,  F1 gets as much media coverage as soccer , essentially none and never has.

    Smiley

     

     


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    SmileySmiley

    Well written.


    --

     


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Unfortunately that is not the case in the ROW.


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    reginos:
    We want cars from Porsche to make the impact the 911 Turbo made in 1974 a technical tour de force like the 959, a prototype legend like the 956/962 and a successful engine like the TAG-Porsche again. These will make us believe again.

    --

    "Form follows function"

    I would be happy with an impact  like the 993 Turbo vs. the competition.

    The 997 Turbo S is a good car but it isn't superior to the F458 for example. 

    I get it...last 911 generation but I expect the new 991 Turbo to make an impact. The chassis upgrades will be substantial but I'm not sure if the car will be that sensational compared to the current and future competition. Porsche really needs at least one "affordable" product which makes the competition look bad. The 991 Turbo could be that product if they play it right. With 520 or 530 hp, as rumored, the 991 Turbo will not make that kind of an impact I'm afraid, unless they make it 100 kg lighter compared to the "old" 997 Turbo (which of course won't happen).

    The current benchmarks for the 991 Turbo, performance-wise, to beat are the Ferrari F458 Italia and the Nissan GT-R.

    The new 991 Turbo needs to hit 0-100 kph in 3.0 seconds flat (or faster) and 0-200 kph in 10 seconds flat or faster.

    Also it needs to do to the Nordschleife in under 7:40 and Hockenheim Kleiner Kurs under 1 min 12 seconds...on street tires.

    Well...let's see what is going to happen next year... Smiley

    In my opinion, the top model of each Porsche model line needs to be the best and fastest in it's class. Including the Cayenne Turbo and the Panamera Turbo S. Right now, I think that Porsche needs to up the game a little bit.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    I think it is very difficult for Porsche to make an impact such as the 993 Turbo did when it was launched in 1995. The competition was nowhere near where it is today (F 458, McLaren Mp4, Nissan GTR, Lamborghini Gallardo by Audi, Audi R8). I actually think the 993 Turbo had (probably) no competition since it was a very unique selling proposal (if you had the opportunity to drive extensively a F355 you will know what I mean.)


    --

    911 Club Coupe, 72' 911 Targa 2.4 S, 12' Audi S4 Avant


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Why not? Look at the impact the Nissan GT-R is still making in the face of all the top Manufacturers that you mention. Still untouchable on the NBR track, even without taking value for money into consideration.

    Imagine the impact if the  991 Turbo S gets to below 7.15 or better beating the Viper at below 7.10! Porsche will become  a legend again.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    "Simple" impact: 991 Turbo, weight 100 kg lighter than current car, 580 hp, advanced PTM system with all the performance goodies, incl. dynamic engine mounts, etc. etc. etc..

    0-100 kph in 2.8 seconds, 0-200 kph in 9.0 seconds flat, price tag (base price) same as current 997 Turbo, top speed 330 kph.

    Nordschleife in 7:30 with street tires, Hockenheim Kleiner Kurs 1 min 10 sec. with street tires.

    What do you say, Porsche? smiley

    Not possible? I bet it would be possible...if Porsche lowers their 991 Turbo profit margin by at least 15-20%. 

    It would be worth it though...such a car would make an amazing impact on the market.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S (at Porsche right now), BMW X5M, Mercedes C63 AMG Coupe PP/DP, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    Christian, you apparently forgot that 991CS already made pretty good track times when tested by Sport Auto(Supertest):

    7.44min Nordschleife

    1:10,4min Hockenheim Klein Kurs

    All with Pirelli P Zero street tires, which are let's be totally honest optimized for maximal dry traction. Nevertheless, numbers in Supertest are impressive(apart from not so good wet handling time).

    So, your suggestion for 991 Turbo are actually conservative one. My estemee is that 991 Turbo needs to do the Ring in at least 7.35min with street P Zeros and Klein Kurs in around 1:09,5min


    Re: Porsche cancels test drives scheduled for german carmags

    IMO it must be at 7.20 with sport tyres when tested by H Von S with Porsche official time at 7.15 in order to be respected by enthusiasts around the world.  These times will make Porsche aspirational again.

    The LFA is at 7.15. It costs a huge amount but nevertheless it is still a Toyota. 


    --

    "Form follows function"


     
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