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    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Wonderbar:

    Kreso and Carlos, a few questions:

    1.  If 991TTS is equal to or even better (or slightly worse) performing than the Huracan, why is it overpriced?  Could you not say the Huracan is overpriced if 991TTS has virtually the same performance for less money?

    Seems to me that cars at this extreme level of performance understandably cost about the same...

     

    You can´t compare the nobility of a V10 engine to simplicity of the 6boxer engine. You can´t compare number of Hurancan builds to thousands and thousands of 991 builds, you can´t compare unique interior design proper to Huracan to mass production interior equal on every 991 series from the base Carrera to TTS, hell you can have a base 991 Carrera build to spec interior looking better than standard 991TTS, you can´t compare a company that has a Huracan as it´s base model, to another who has Macan´s with 4 cylinder engines and a bunch of powered Diesel models,  you can´t simply compare the glamor of owning a proper and charming exotic supercar with the last technology on the market with a "tuned" 991 with adds on. Comparing Huracan to 991TTS is like comparing the 991 Carrera S to BMW 3 series M3 if you get my point Smiley.  It´s not only about performance, it´s also about what the car makes you feel. As to performance, rumors indicate Hurancan to be faster than 991TTS so even in this subject Huracan is the superior car. Regarding price, I think Huracan  i´ts very competitive for all the reasons mention here by other members, plus mine Smiley

    Don´t get me wrong, I love the 991, and think it´s the most beautiful and best 911 ever made, the new design is to die for, very 911ish, my perfect 991 would be the one with Turbo body without the rear wing and 2WD. I plane to keep my 911 Cab for long, can´t leave without a Cab.  but a proper and charming exotic will be parked next to it on my garage on the next 12 months.

    J.Seven


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    very nice looking car 

    take it easy on her 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Very nice and different looking car! congratulations!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Herbaliser:

    At 200K EUR it actually looks like a better deal then the Turbo S. Let's not forget that it's a Lamborghini - still an exotic brand, not a 200 000 cars per year producer (incl. Macan), mostly diesels. The Huracan will surely be faster then the Turbo S after 200 km/h. I remember reading that the M6 competition package is also faster then it!

    No, it isn't. It is close though but only to 300 kph (to 200 kph, the difference is almost two seconds in favor of the Turbo S). 

    Porsche doesn't produce 200000 911 per year and I'm not quite sure what production numbers have to do with the price of a car. For me, it is performance which counts and performance I can use on a daily basis. I do not buy a financial product I expect to grow in value over the time but a car I want to enjoy driving. 

    As much as I love Porsche, I don't like the idea of paying 200K+ EUR for a car from the same brand that makes the 4 cylinder diesel Macan, soon to be driven by every housewife in the neighbourhood. At the same time the 991 Turbo S is not the undisputed leader in performance as the 997 used to be...

    Well, I don't know. So far, this car does pretty good in it's price range in my opinion.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    scdave:

    Just picked it up tonight!  I'm trying very hard to break it in properly, but it is very hard to resist the temptation!  I'm trying though.  Just a couple of quick pics at the dealership with my phone.  GT Silver w/ 20" Sport Classic Rims in Black.

    Congratulations, beautiful car. Smiley I know the feeling but try to keep it below 4000-4500 rpm at least for the first 500 km (300 mls), better up to 1000 km (600 mls). Do not use launch control too early, recommendation is 3000 km (1800 mls) but at least put 2000 km (1200 mls) on the car before you do it. Also do not track race the car before you put 3000 km on it but of course this is just a recommendation. Tires need up to 1000 km run-in period (300-500 km should do it though).

    Enjoy. Smiley

     

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    scdave:

    Just picked it up tonight!  I'm trying very hard to break it in properly, but it is very hard to resist the temptation!  I'm trying though.  Just a couple of quick pics at the dealership with my phone.  GT Silver w/ 20" Sport Classic Rims in Black.1389244609064photo 1.JPG1389244620293photo 2.JPG1389244632228photo 3.JPG

    maybe the first one which i see that looks good. GT silver fits the car.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I am absolutely into white currently - but boy that is the best looking TTS I've seen so far. The wheels are perfection on this car !  angel wink


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    Herbaliser:

    At 200K EUR it actually looks like a better deal then the Turbo S. Let's not forget that it's a Lamborghini - still an exotic brand, not a 200 000 cars per year producer (incl. Macan), mostly diesels. The Huracan will surely be faster then the Turbo S after 200 km/h. I remember reading that the M6 competition package is also faster then it!

    No, it isn't. It is close though but only to 300 kph (to 200 kph, the difference is almost two seconds in favor of the Turbo S). 

    Porsche doesn't produce 200000 911 per year and I'm not quite sure what production numbers have to do with the price of a car. For me, it is performance which counts and performance I can use on a daily basis. I do not buy a financial product I expect to grow in value over the time but a car I want to enjoy driving. 

    As much as I love Porsche, I don't like the idea of paying 200K+ EUR for a car from the same brand that makes the 4 cylinder diesel Macan, soon to be driven by every housewife in the neighbourhood. At the same time the 991 Turbo S is not the undisputed leader in performance as the 997 used to be...

    Well, I don't know. So far, this car does pretty good in it's price range in my opinion.

    If the AutoBuild article that someone posted in another thread is to be believed, the M6 CP is significantly faster then the Turbo S from 250 - 300 km/h. Just check the numbers. This is not so important but again, if it's true, it is not right. 

    The production numbers have everything to do with the price of a car. Those cars are not so different then other luxury products. I wouldn't want to pay Patek Philippe money for a Rolex...The additional development and production cost of the Turbo S is small compared to the development of the basic 911 so a very big part of the cost for Porsche is divided to the many thousands of 911 that are built. I would speculate that they make larger net profit per Turbo/S then McLaren with MC12, Ferrari with 458 and the Hurican/R8. 

     

     

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Herbaliser:
     

    If the AutoBuild article that someone posted in another thread is to be believed, the M6 CP is significantly faster then the Turbo S from 250 - 300 km/h. Just check the numbers. This is not so important but again, if it's true, it is not right. 

    From 0-300 kph, according to AutoBILD Sportscars, the BMW M6 CP needs 30.4 seconds, the 991 Turbo S 29.7 seconds. From 250-300 kph, the M6 CP is one second faster though but from my experience with a M5 CP, this cannot be right. Under no circumstances was the car faster than mine, so I am a little bit surprised by this result. We didn't have the chance to drive over 290 kph (speedo) but the difference was always really quite significant in the 160-290 kph speed range, so I doubt the AutoBILD Sportscars result. Maybe BMW sent them one of their "typical" test cars again. Smiley Or of course my car runs pretty well (which it does) but it is stock.

    The production numbers have everything to do with the price of a car. Those cars are not so different then other luxury products. I wouldn't want to pay Patek Philippe money for a Rolex...The additional development and production cost of the Turbo S is small compared to the development of the basic 911 so a very big part of the cost for Porsche is divided to the many thousands of 911 that are built. I would speculate that they make larger net profit per Turbo/S then McLaren with MC12, Ferrari with 458 and the Hurican/R8. 

    You are actually making an assumption here which couldn't be less true. The basic 911 doesn't have a turbo charged engine with VTG chargers, it doesn't have the latest generation AWD/PTM system (no, not even the C4/S has it), it doesn't have AWS, it doesn't have the wider body of the Turbo/S (no, not even the C4/S or the GT3 has it) and the PCCB system is also different (third generation instead of 2nd generation) from the basic 911, with the exception of the GT3. 

    This is may be the problem many, who aren't too much into Porsche, have with the 911: They don't understand that among the 911 family, there are huge differences. The GT3 and the Turbo/S don't have much in common with the Carrera models and the Turbo/S doesn't even share the body with them, incl. the GT3.

    Take a 991 Carrera and a 991 Turbo S for example: They share less than 20% of the parts, believe it or not.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    IMO the only true test of the Turbo/S pricing policy is the marketplace. If Porsche prove that they can sell these models successfully at prices that are very close to "commonly perceived supercars", there is no point in carrying on these debates. The buyer is free to choose. So far I believe the demand for the Turbo S is high.

    BTW the original 930 Turbo (3.0 and 3.3) also sold at prices very close to contemporary Italian brands. Nothing new.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    reginos:

    IMO the only true test of the Turbo/S pricing policy is the marketplace. If Porsche prove that they can sell these models successfully at prices that are very close to "commonly perceived supercars", there is no point in carrying on these debates. The buyer is free to choose. So far I believe the demand for the Turbo S is high.

    BTW the original 930 Turbo (3.0 and 3.3) also sold at prices very close to contemporary Italian brands. Nothing new.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"

    I heard that Turbo S demand kind of surprised them, it seems to be quite good. Yes, there has been a lot of criticism regarding the price tag but most reviews were quite impressive and after a test-drive, many potential customers and/or 997 Turbo/S owners actually made the switch. I remember discussing the new Turbo S with a 997 Turbo S owner at my dealership and at that time, he told me, that he isn't interested because the car has become too expensive and the difference in performance is too small. Guess who is driving now a new 991 Turbo S? Smiley He loves the car and doesn't regret going for it. Porsche hit a nerve here, especially on the emotional side but I agree, I still think that Porsche should have gone the whole way to make a (benchmark Smiley) point. 

    Can't help it, I still have that wonderful McLaren gesture in mind where they gave customers additional power through an improved engine software, free of cost. This was something amazing. Maybe Porsche could do the same, especially in regards to the new higher price tag. The Turbo S could easily handle 30-40 hp more, this wouldn't be an issue and I think the hardware could take it too. The problem would probably be the facelift, so it won't happen. Unfortunately.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm20ZU-KiRc

     

    sorry if its a repost 

    never seen it before 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Amazing performance for 991TTS, did you notice how much more stable the 991 was in the turns! It turns flat.

    J.Seven


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    J. Seven, are you ordering a Huracan?  Will look forward to pics and impressions.  Looks fabulous...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    Can't help it, I still have that wonderful McLaren gesture in mind where they gave customers additional power through an improved engine software, free of cost. This was something amazing. Maybe Porsche could do the same, especially in regards to the new higher price tag. The Turbo S could easily handle 30-40 hp more, this wouldn't be an issue and I think the hardware could take it too. The problem would probably be the facelift, so it won't happen. Unfortunately.

    Yes, if there is one brand that would never do something like this, that would unfortunatley be Porsche. McLaren is a new kid on the block in the supercar market, they had initial bad press due to reliability issues and lack of dealer infrastructure, etc so the free power bump was a good move to increase brand loyalty and public image.
    Porsche unfortunately doesn't need to do something like that and can even afford to offer less power that its competition and still sell very well... besides "free" gestures is just not on the "Porsche DNA" either.


    --


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Carlos from Spain:
    RC:
    Can't help it, I still have that wonderful McLaren gesture in mind where they gave customers additional power through an improved engine software, free of cost. This was something amazing. Maybe Porsche could do the same, especially in regards to the new higher price tag. The Turbo S could easily handle 30-40 hp more, this wouldn't be an issue and I think the hardware could take it too. The problem would probably be the facelift, so it won't happen. Unfortunately.

    Yes, if there is one brand that would never do something like this, that would unfortunatley be Porsche. McLaren is a new kid on the block in the supercar market, they had initial bad press due to reliability issues and lack of dealer infrastructure, etc so the free power bump was a good move to increase brand loyalty and public image.
    Porsche unfortunately doesn't need to do something like that and can even afford to offer less power that its competition and still sell very well... besides "free" gestures is just not on the "Porsche DNA" either.


    --

    exactly. at that time maclaren had probably sold 2500 cars at most and they needed to be nice to (potential) customers. still, i fail to see maccis on the road, be it monte carlo, austria, germany or the UK. i wish them well because their presence on the market could push other companies.....


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    andyFE:
    still, i fail to see maccis on the road, be it monte carlo, austria, germany or the UK. i wish them well because their presence on the market could push other companies.....

    Really?  I've seen as many on the road as I have 991 Smiley


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    hmmm, they congregate in buckshire maybe.......haven't seen one in oxbridge.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    huracan base prise in UK: 180.720.- GBP. depositor showing in london this weekend:::)))


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    evidence that porsche has become an SUV company :  http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=29183


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Andy, if I am reading this right, 180, 720 pounds converts to almost $300,000 U.S. dollars (at a 1.65 exchange rate).  Am I correct?  Thanks...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Wonderbar:

    J. Seven, are you ordering a Huracan?  Will look forward to pics and impressions.  Looks fabulous...

    Unfortunately, not yet.

    J.Seven


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    andyFE:

    hmmm, they congregate in buckshire maybe.......haven't seen one in oxbridge.

    Central London, M40/A40 and M25 seem to be the hot spots.  Also, I live about 20 miles from Woking which will have an effect


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    andyFE:

    evidence that porsche has become an SUV company :  http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=29183

    Without the Cayenne, Porsche wouldn't exist now as an independent (yes!!!) company.  They have been integrated into the VW Group but as far as I learned, they have a lot of leeway when it comes to their own models and especially the sports cars branch. Also, Porsche SE owns the majority of Volkswagen and Piech is a member of the Porsche family and as far as I heard, all is well now in the "Casa Porsche".

    Many seem to think that Volkswagen is bad news for Porsche but I think the contrary is the case. With Volkswagen, Porsche has access to huge development resources and their cars will benefit from them sooner or later.

    Also, Porsche manufactured aprox. 33000 911 in a year but how many of them are or will be 911 Turbo S? 10%? I actually think less. This isn't really that much.

    As to the McLaren street presence: Since McLaren introduced the 12C, I saw only one single car on the road in Munich. Not many McLaren driving around here. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    How can it be bad news that Porsche is part of Volkswagen? Both brands would have never existed the way they exist now, without eachother. Without mr. Porsche, there wouldn't have been a Volkswagen and without the Beetle, there wouldn't have been a 911. 

     


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basaltblack metallic
    2012 Audi SQ5 TDI | Lavagrey metallic
     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    autocar turbo.jpg


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    There is a front bumper camera in the 991 Turbo S? . Also they haven't even tested the AM V12 Vantage S yet (no test values) but they put it on the first place and they tested the Turbo S from 0-60 mph in 3.0 seconds. Also "rebalance the controls for a little bit more feedback"? This can only be a joke because if this car would provide more feedback, it would be actually a GT3. 

    I cannot take these guys seriously...seriously. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    There is a front bumper camera in the 991 Turbo S? . Also they haven't even tested the AM V12 Vantage S yet (no test values) but they put it on the first place and they tested the Turbo S from 0-60 mph in 3.0 seconds. Also "rebalance the controls for a little bit more feedback"? This can only be a joke because if this car would provide more feedback, it would be actually a GT3. 

    I cannot take these guys seriously...seriously. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Because they don't rate your car highest? Smiley Autocar is pretty well respected as a magazine...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I am trying to understand Porsche with TTS pricing strategy, since this is first time that I think for some Porsche model that is overpriced broken heart  I am sure that people would rather have 590 PS TTS for 200K Euros with center-locks & carbon breaks as option.
     
    TTS is often used as DD and people drive them on snow too. For example RC paid over 10k Euros for another pair of silly center-locks just to accommodate winter tires too angry Yes, 10k, because he had no other choice. 

    --

    My new blog with automotive & motorcycle renders: tessoart.blogspot.com


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Porker:
    RC:

    There is a front bumper camera in the 991 Turbo S? . Also they haven't even tested the AM V12 Vantage S yet (no test values) but they put it on the first place and they tested the Turbo S from 0-60 mph in 3.0 seconds. Also "rebalance the controls for a little bit more feedback"? This can only be a joke because if this car would provide more feedback, it would be actually a GT3. 

    I cannot take these guys seriously...seriously. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    Because they don't rate your car highest? Smiley Autocar is pretty well respected as a magazine...

    I can very well understand that one favours an R8 V10 to a 991 TTS, because those cars really are neck on neck and it's purely a matter of taste, but come on... an Aston Martin??? Yes it's a good looking car, but that's about it. This really is a joke.  How much did Aston pay for that?

    I did respect Autocar untill now. No one van take these guys serious anymore. In fact... I don't know any car magazine that one can take serious at this moment. 


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basaltblack metallic
    2012 Audi SQ5 TDI | Lavagrey metallic
     


     
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