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    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    WOW!! 

    Best GT3 ever!!


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Boyko23:

    Interesting - so many negative comments, before knowing almost anything about this car? yes

    I agree. However, this is par of the Internet, many express negative comments about the product without even seeing the product, let alone driving the car.

    I trust that Porsche on its guidance with the GT3.  Every 911 introduction is met with naysayers being won over by a car more superior than the car it is replacing.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    Thanks all for your replays.

    Do you know what my P source wrote to me in his email? That most of you who are sceptic about 991 range probably want 997.2 GT3 4.0 RS...

    Let me tell you few of his remarks:

    -engine? 991 GT3 engine is better then any 997/997.2 GT3 engine.  From at least few technical points. You will understand when new GT3 appear in few days...

    -gearbox? Why is everybody so hesitant about PDK? Do you really think that Porsche can not build very, very sporty PDK?

    -track times? 991 GT3 will be faster then any version of 997/997.2 GT3 on the track. Do not look at "leaks" about Ring times.

    -technical gimmicks? Yes, new GT3 will feature some very nice gimmicks that will extend its drive dynamics a lot, both on the road and on the track.

    -price? Unfortunately, new 991 GT3 will be more expensive. It will NOT cost 150K € as base price in Germany.

    -new 991 GT3 will please about 80% of current GT3 costumers and will additionally bring some new costumers as well.

    -those that want hard core sportcar(or track car thatcan be used on the public road) need to wait for GT3 RS. It will be a dream, even for purists.

    I may add that I do not know how to interpet his last sentence? Manual and PDK maybe?

     

    Thanks for the further feedback Kreso. As your contact rightly suggests, the 4.0 RS is the enthusiast's dream car minus CL wheelsSmiley Just notenough released. If the GT3 was that as baseline, I'd be ecstatic!

    If engine is not domestic grade, as pointed out in later posst this is great but it will need to prove itself on the track. I would never be a guinea pig for Porsche.

    My hesitation about the PDK box apart from involvement is cost of repairs! Lambos and Ferraris may have them but their owners "generally" take them out a handfull of times each year and those that track often end up with huge repair bills if tracked regularly. One forum member spent over  US$25 k to sort out his after 14000 miles on the clock with much track time on a Scud... With the motorsport manual, a couple thousand to refresh syncros and you're done. We don't have motorsport team budgets to keep thesethings running when choosing to use them on track...

    Faster times were always a give... The argument was that for all the features given, the gap to the 997 had to be heaps larger than that quoted and thankfully it will be...

    i hope the RS is as suggested as this car I would consider in the right format in the future...

    As for the last sentence, it probably means that if the get enough kickback on the PDK only, they will likely have a manual  on standby... As i stated earlier, a smart company would offer both on a model like this considering the offering before and phase out the manual if the PDK gets the majority of sales...

     

    As for latest info, thankfully its looking better than first expected but the most important component of the new car will be unproven, both engie and trans... As for arguments about Porsche engineers having done lots of testing, the same would have been argued about centrelocks but they are snapping off and now require ridiculous maintenance. My faith in Porsche engineering is questionable at best for the moment...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Hello - new to this forum....

    Does the new engine have direct injection ?

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    shure, what else ?


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    DuckieRS:

    What immediately grabbed my attention: check - and + regarding to shifting (push/pull).


    Yes, finally... Smiley

    A couple of comments towards the general criticism of some users above... some things have changed at Porsche in recent years and that does not have to be to the worse. Preuninger has done a tremendous job on the GT models, maybe if one excluded the hassle with the CL wheels, Wiedeking has left the company and with him the significant cost-cutting measurements and engineering-driven management has arrived. As great and solid as the Mezger engine is, this block dates back several decades and in terms of weight alone there are certainly more contemporary solutions available. If one considers that BMW renews its inline-6 engine lineup every few years and improves them on several aspects (yet retains reliability), why should a company as Porsche have difficulties to do the same? Furthermore, the 996 and especially 997 GT3 have established themselves as one of the cars of choice for many weekend drivers, for that I only have to take a look around the parking lot at the Nürburgring Nordschleife. Does anybody believe Porsche would make decisions to erase this customer base with an unreliable and unwanted engine and transmission configuration? Preuninger, for example, stated that they do listen to a variety of customers that are of different calibre to evaluate whether their ideas will attract interest.

    I guess the GT3´s specs that have been communicated further above indicate that Porsche does not what it is doing. 


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    GT:

    P will face intense pressure at these prices. It looks like a rebranding exercise to me for Porsche trying to maybe become more exclusive with the 991.


    This is only an assumption but I tend to believe that Porsche targets a different customer base in the emerging markets in comparison to their historical customer bases in North America or Europe. I could well imagine that those people will approach the car and its pricetag in a different way, far less likely to form a similiar debate as we do here. In Germany, for example, a lot of those cars are obtained via a leasing contract and so it doesn´t come as a surprise to me that Porsche particularly adjusted those offers to the better and is more likely to give discounts on the 991, yet remains a coherent pricetag for this model on all markets. 


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Kreso - any info on the GT3 wing? Should we expect the design featured on the test mules or will we be pleasantly surprised?
    KresoF1

    No, There wont be any suprise regarding the rear wing.

    BTW, remember pics from Portugal. It was a cup car, not normal 991 GT3. For bigger(and IMO even uglier) rear wing you will have to wait for 991 GT3 RS.

    So Kreso, the latest pic's was kind of surprise. The wing is different after all Smiley


    --


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    dxpetrov:

    You should not worry about the wing. It will be a GT wing - not Turbo. kiss

    You knew it mate!!! Smiley


    --


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Yes, rear wing is different. If you want even bigger rear wing you will have to wait for RS version. Btw, press pics will appear soon...

    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:
    Yes, rear wing is different. If you want even bigger rear wing you will have to wait for RS version. Btw, press pics will appear soon...

    Soon(next week) or very soon(this week)? broken heart


    --


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    If we read between the lines of Kreso's posts - until 23.02.13? smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    thanks for sharing pictures and info.

    Hi Ferdi, I like you english write up. reads much more fluent than your short posts in you native language :indecision

     


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    hunterone:

    shure, what else ?

     yes..but maybe the real question is/was - will this engine also be used in the 991 RSR? Chris Harris said a few month ago..the old GT1 engine will be used in the 991 RSR..

    For the moment the whole "engine picture is fuzzy" I would say..,even after Geneva I think this question will not be cleared..

    @ Kreso: would be happy if you could give us an indication..which engine will be used in Porsche Motorsport - short term & mid term..

    Here is my guess:

    1. short term: current Mezger engine in 991 CUP and RSR..at least for another two years

    2. mid term: either the new 991 GT3 engine (but if so - it would be really strange to let road customers test it first - unseen in the automotive industry)..or new 8 Cylinder - that will be used in racing and in the 960..kills two flies at the same timeSmiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    If the base GT3 is using the wide body, what will the RS be used in order to distinguish itself? An even wider body with the small front wings like the 4.0? Or the base GT3 to allow 2 rear seats and leave the roll cage for the RS?


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    SportCarGroup:
    dxpetrov:

    You should not worry about the wing. It will be a GT wing - not Turbo. kiss

    You knew it mate!!! Smiley

    Glad you remember bro! Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    GTlover:
    hunterone:

    shure, what else ?

     yes..but maybe the real question is/was - will this engine also be used in the 991 RSR? Chris Harris said a few month ago..the old GT1 engine will be used in the 991 RSR..

    For the moment the whole "engine picture is fuzzy" I would say..,even after Geneva I think this question will not be cleared..

    @ Kreso: would be happy if you could give us an indication..which engine will be used in Porsche Motorsport - short term & mid term..

    Here is my guess:

    1. short term: current Mezger engine in 991 CUP and RSR..at least for another two years

    2. mid term: either the new 991 GT3 engine (but if so - it would be really strange to let road customers test it first - unseen in the automotive industry)..or new 8 Cylinder - that will be used in racing and in the 960..kills two flies at the same timeSmiley

    It is important to remember that the 991RSR will NOT be available to customers until next year (2014). This year is a testing and preparation year. I don’t know for sure that the 991 RSR will have the new engine, but to me it seems highly likely that it will.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:
    GTlover:
    hunterone:

    shure, what else ?

     yes..but maybe the real question is/was - will this engine also be used in the 991 RSR? Chris Harris said a few month ago..the old GT1 engine will be used in the 991 RSR..

    For the moment the whole "engine picture is fuzzy" I would say..,even after Geneva I think this question will not be cleared..

    @ Kreso: would be happy if you could give us an indication..which engine will be used in Porsche Motorsport - short term & mid term..

    Here is my guess:

    1. short term: current Mezger engine in 991 CUP and RSR..at least for another two years

    2. mid term: either the new 991 GT3 engine (but if so - it would be really strange to let road customers test it first - unseen in the automotive industry)..or new 8 Cylinder - that will be used in racing and in the 960..kills two flies at the same timeSmiley

    It is important to remember that the 991RSR will NOT be available to customers until next year (2014). This year is a testing and preparation year. I don’t know for sure that the 991 RSR will have the new engine, but to me it seems highly likely that it will.

    It doesn't matter if it's accesable to privatters or not, if they homologate it this year(which they have to, to race)  it's bloked for the next 2...
    Although like I said, chancess are FIA/ACO will alow the new engine in a year most likely.. If they run the old engine under waiver, then they can get arount the homologation rule, as they just remove the waiver :)

    either way, we'll 100% see the new engine racing in 2 years tops...Which is awsome..


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    ...and if they use the 991 GT3 for homologation with the new engine, then they can race it this year. I dont see what is the issue .


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    superfans:

    If the base GT3 is using the wide body, what will the RS be used in order to distinguish itself? An even wider body with the small front wings like the 4.0? Or the base GT3 to allow 2 rear seats and leave the roll cage for the RS?

    991 Turbo will have a wider body then the C4 . So, GT3 : C4 body. GT3 RS :TT body

    Exiting times ahead !

    Glad the wing looks good and that the whole package seems to be what we all want Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    that would mean 3 rear widths:

    standard, fat and obese


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:

    ...and if they use the 991 GT3 for homologation with the new engine, then they can race it this year. I dont see what is the issue .

     Hi syderidol, hi mojelme,

    thanks for the interesting info....but I do remember that Chris Harris posted in december/november that both 991 CUP and RSR will use the old engine..its also what I would guessed/betted on..at least they will continue with this for another 2 years..and then it will be replaced..by what is the real question. Will it be this new GT3 engine?..and why is it introduced only now..and not directly in the 991 CUP..between now and December (991 CUP presentation) there only 2 month..

    Lets see what Kreso is coming up with...I look forward to his ideas..I know that this a tricky question.Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    sfo:

    that would mean 3 rear widths:

    standard, fat and obese

     thats a good one..Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    GTlover:
    Spyderidol:

    ...and if they use the 991 GT3 for homologation with the new engine, then they can race it this year. I dont see what is the issue .

     Hi syderidol, hi mojelme,

    thanks for the interesting info....but I do remember that Chris Harris posted in december/november that both 991 CUP and RSR will use the old engine..its also what I would guessed/betted on..at least they will continue with this for another 2 years..and then it will be replaced..by what is the real question. Will it be this new GT3 engine?..and why is it introduced only now..and not directly in the 991 CUP..between now and December (991 CUP presentation) there only 2 month..

    Lets see what Kreso is coming up with...I look forward to his ideas..I know that this a tricky question.Smiley

    The CUP is for use (at least for now) in a mono-marque series. It wont be competing (for a while) with other competitors. The RSR on the other hand  will be competing with various factory teams from competing marques.

    From what I gather, the car is undergoing a lot of testing and Manthey has reported that the car is showing good reliability.  To me, this implies that the car most likely has a "new" untested engine (we all know that the Mezger had reliability so why comment on itSmiley).

    Anyway, all will be revealed in the fullness of time.


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    It is already said correctly that 991 RSR will be available for custumers in 2014. Much is answered with that.

    New engine is technically excellent piece of engineering. Do not have any doubt in it.

    SmileyJust got firm unofficial Ring time for 991 GT3...Smiley  If HvS will have a good day then we will all write here SmileySmileySmiley...


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    It is already said correctly that 991 RSR will be available for custumers in 2014. Much is answered with that.

    New engine is technically excellent piece of engineering. Do not have any doubt in it.

    SmileyJust got firm unofficial Ring time for 991 GT3...Smiley  If HvS will have a good day then we will all write here SmileySmileySmiley...

    7.2X... Smiley


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    sfo:

    that would mean 3 rear widths:

    standard, fat and obese

    Smiley


    --

    If I don't fly, I drive my .:RS 


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    KresoF1:

    It is already said correctly that 991 RSR will be available for custumers in 2014. Much is answered with that.

    New engine is technically excellent piece of engineering. Do not have any doubt in it.

    SmileyJust got firm unofficial Ring time for 991 GT3...Smiley  If HvS will have a good day then we will all write here SmileySmileySmiley...

     Hi kreso,

    thanks..well:

    991 RSR: I dont really think that everything is answered..to which extent will the new 8 cylinder be part of the game?..and that such an engine will be built..is no secret anymore..has publically already been confirmed

    Ring time: well you said anything below 7:30 - in the Sport Auto test - would almost not be impossible. I think we should stay realistic..becoming to greedy is never good - and would lead to disappointments.. for me what counts..if it beats the 458 in the Sport Auto test than it has its job done..anything below 7:38  is "nice to have"....so all that we need to make sure that HvS beats the bloody 7:38 and then the 458 can go fck itself......and suddenly then the 991 GT3 will become a bargain..Smiley..although I personally would not call it this way..especially if we know that there is a rough 20K price increase..


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:
    GTlover:
    Spyderidol:

    ...and if they use the 991 GT3 for homologation with the new engine, then they can race it this year. I dont see what is the issue .

     Hi syderidol, hi mojelme,

    thanks for the interesting info....but I do remember that Chris Harris posted in december/november that both 991 CUP and RSR will use the old engine..its also what I would guessed/betted on..at least they will continue with this for another 2 years..and then it will be replaced..by what is the real question. Will it be this new GT3 engine?..and why is it introduced only now..and not directly in the 991 CUP..between now and December (991 CUP presentation) there only 2 month..

    Lets see what Kreso is coming up with...I look forward to his ideas..I know that this a tricky question.Smiley

    The CUP is for use (at least for now) in a mono-marque series. It wont be competing (for a while) with other competitors. The RSR on the other hand  will be competing with various factory teams from competing marques.

    From what I gather, the car is undergoing a lot of testing and Manthey has reported that the car is showing good reliability.  To me, this implies that the car most likely has a "new" untested engine (we all know that the Mezger had reliability so why comment on itSmiley).

    Anyway, all will be revealed in the fullness of time.

     hi sypderidol,

    fully agree..but how can Porsche put the new racing engine NOW in the 991 GT3 if at the same time its still being tested with the 991 RSR..this was my question..and as you say..the answer to that question..will come over time. I think that after Geneva..that question is still unanswered..

    Lets see..


    Re: 991 spyshots thread (continued) (for UNRELEASED models only) Thread Closed

    It has been my assumption from the beginning that the wing on the ubiquitous GT3 mule is a stop gap/simulator for the wing we now see in these latest spy photos. If you look at the wing on the "aerokit look" GT3 mule, you will notice a gurney flap that is not present on the standard 991 carrera aerokit. I believe this gurney flap helps simulate the downforce level of the real GT3 wing, so that they may complete testing without revealing the final look.


     
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