Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    X51 vs GT3

    The X51 seems quite expensive for what you get. Wouldn't it be smarter to wait for a GT3?

    Re: X51 vs GT3

    No way man, dirve the GT3 it's loud, stiff and obnoxious. The 1st 30 minutes you will love it and then you will hate it unless you are on atrack. You can get the $16,000 option for the 997S with 385 H.P. but it's not worth it. In 3 months Revo will have a software upgrade for 997S which will boost the 997S to 375 H.P. for a $1000. I had an 05 C4S and I had this done by local porsche shop in Orange County and OMG it made a big difference. The cheapest, fastest and safest way is the flash softwere by REVO.

    Re: X51 vs GT3

    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    The X51 seems quite expensive for what you get. Wouldn't it be smarter to wait for a GT3?



    If you're after performance, definitely wait for the GT3 man.
    X51 is a ripoff sure but so these cars are not rationnal purchases anyway.
    X51 is a great option if you want to keep the GT attributes of the 911 bc that's what you'll lose if you go for a GT3, a very hard ride, no sunroof, no Bose, no Satnav, no electric seats, well, a real sports car that doesn't pretend to do it all, that's for the 911 and the uber 911, the Turbo.
    I'd go for a GT3 if I had another car, like an SUV for long vacation trips for example.

    edz comment's is true, you can get additionnal hp by playing around with the ECU, but by doing so, you can screw up the electronics and you void warranty.
    Plus is Revo can get 385 out of a 997S then they'll get 411 out of 997S X51

    Re: X51 vs GT3

    edz61, What porsche shop in Orange County? can you give me the name?

    Re: X51 vs GT3

    The Revo software is virtaully undetectable by the dealer. Worst case they will reset the computer at the dealer and everything will go back to normal and REVO will relaod it for free. In my 05 C4S I had no problems with a software, it took 15 minutes to install it. They will even give you a 2 hour demo. You can drive for 2 hours to see if you like the change and then the software will expire. If you like it you will buy the permanent software. You can go Hergschimer in orange county (Lake Forest). Go to REVO.com site and look up north america dealers. I agree with the silverbullet, spending 16000 on the X51 is stupid. I just took my 997s to Hergschimer and they said in 2 months they will have the software for 997S. It's not out yet

    Re: X51 vs GT3

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    The Revo software is virtaully undetectable by the dealer. Worst case they will reset the computer at the dealer and everything will go back to normal and REVO will relaod it for free. In my 05 C4S I had no problems with a software, it took 15 minutes to install it. They will even give you a 2 hour demo. You can drive for 2 hours to see if you like the change and then the software will expire. If you like it you will buy the permanent software. You can go Hergschimer in orange county (Lake Forest). Go to REVO.com site and look up north america dealers. I agree with the silverbullet, spending 16000 on the X51 is stupid. I just took my 997s to Hergschimer and they said in 2 months they will have the software for 997S. It's not out yet



    I visited their website, seems good but there surely must be at least one drawback?

    It kinda seems too good true the way you describe it

    Re: X51 vs GT3

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    The Revo software is virtaully undetectable by the dealer. Worst case they will reset the computer at the dealer and everything will go back to normal and REVO will relaod it for free. In my 05 C4S I had no problems with a software, it took 15 minutes to install it. They will even give you a 2 hour demo. You can drive for 2 hours to see if you like the change and then the software will expire. If you like it you will buy the permanent software. You can go Hergschimer in orange county (Lake Forest). Go to REVO.com site and look up north america dealers. I agree with the silverbullet, spending 16000 on the X51 is stupid. I just took my 997s to Hergschimer and they said in 2 months they will have the software for 997S. It's not out yet



    Guys, how can adult, good money earning people, believe that a 25 HP gain on a normally aspirated car can be achieved through a software upgrade only without compromising reliability and performance of the car?
    Not to speak about other things like environmental issues.

    To make it clear: chip tuning on normally aspirated cars is pretty much the dumbest thing anyone can do. And: if your vendor tells you that the tuning isn't detectable, IT IS DETECTABLE. Even if the dealer looks for it, he can easily find out. Not to speak about Porsche when you have a warranty issue with the engine. Guess what, they demand a printout from your motronic and guess even more: you can kiss your warranty good-bye.

    The "trick" with chip tuning on normally aspirated engines is simple: usually such "tuning" comes with a sport airfilter or a modified airbox, sometimes with a sport exhaust. The louder sound (exhaust, air induction sound, etc.) already makes people believe that their car is faster than before. The software itself usually is programmed to provide more power in the upper rev band, sometimes even passing over the factory rev limiter. So you may get 20 HP more in the upper rev range, maybe even over the rev limiter but at the same time you'll loose power and especially torque in the mid and lower rev range.

    There are so many possibilites using a different software, the general advise is: whatever you think, whatever the vendor tells you, don't do it. Nothing is for free in life, I always thought that at least people who can afford a 997 learned this lesson.

    Regarding the X51 kit: ripoff? Well, maybe. Especially since it seems that Porsche developped this kit along with M97 engine development. But you don't get only reliable 26 HP more, you get a perfectly adapted integrated system.
    And not to forget the fact, that a lot of 997 X51 engines are rumored to hit 400 HP.

    But I don't want to sound like a teacher or a smarta... Do what you want with your money but what you're doing doesn't make much sense. Better sell your car and get a GT3. Or get a 997 Turbo, there are plenty possibilites to raise power by at least 40 HP without compromising reliability or the general setup of the engine. But even 911 Turbo drivers learned it the hard way that chip tuning is a possibility to increase power but although cheap, not the best one.

    But of course you won't listen, right?!

    A last word regarding the GT3: yes, the GT3 is some sort of a "best value for the money 911". BUT: the GT3 requires compromises and not everybody loves to have that rear wing.
    But if performance and handling are everything for you, go for the 997 GT3 and not X51.

    Re: X51 vs GT3

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    The Revo software is virtaully undetectable by the dealer. Worst case they will reset the computer at the dealer and everything will go back to normal and REVO will relaod it for free. In my 05 C4S I had no problems with a software, it took 15 minutes to install it. They will even give you a 2 hour demo. You can drive for 2 hours to see if you like the change and then the software will expire. If you like it you will buy the permanent software. You can go Hergschimer in orange county (Lake Forest). Go to REVO.com site and look up north america dealers. I agree with the silverbullet, spending 16000 on the X51 is stupid. I just took my 997s to Hergschimer and they said in 2 months they will have the software for 997S. It's not out yet



    Guys, how can adult, good money earning people, believe that a 25 HP gain on a normally aspirated car can be achieved through a software upgrade only without compromising reliability and performance of the car?
    Not to speak about other things like environmental issues.

    To make it clear: chip tuning on normally aspirated cars is pretty much the dumbest thing anyone can do. And: if your vendor tells you that the tuning isn't detectable, IT IS DETECTABLE. Even if the dealer looks for it, he can easily find out. Not to speak about Porsche when you have a warranty issue with the engine. Guess what, they demand a printout from your motronic and guess even more: you can kiss your warranty good-bye.

    The "trick" with chip tuning on normally aspirated engines is simple: usually such "tuning" comes with a sport airfilter or a modified airbox, sometimes with a sport exhaust. The louder sound (exhaust, air induction sound, etc.) already makes people believe that their car is faster than before. The software itself usually is programmed to provide more power in the upper rev band, sometimes even passing over the factory rev limiter. So you may get 20 HP more in the upper rev range, maybe even over the rev limiter but at the same time you'll loose power and especially torque in the mid and lower rev range.

    There are so many possibilites using a different software, the general advise is: whatever you think, whatever the vendor tells you, don't do it. Nothing is for free in life, I always thought that at least people who can afford a 997 learned this lesson.

    Regarding the X51 kit: ripoff? Well, maybe. Especially since it seems that Porsche developped this kit along with M97 engine development. But you don't get only reliable 26 HP more, you get a perfectly adapted integrated system.
    And not to forget the fact, that a lot of 997 X51 engines are rumored to hit 400 HP.

    But I don't want to sound like a teacher or a smarta... Do what you want with your money but what you're doing doesn't make much sense. Better sell your car and get a GT3. Or get a 997 Turbo, there are plenty possibilites to raise power by at least 40 HP without compromising reliability or the general setup of the engine. But even 911 Turbo drivers learned it the hard way that chip tuning is a possibility to increase power but although cheap, not the best one.

    But of course you won't listen, right?!

    A last word regarding the GT3: yes, the GT3 is some sort of a "best value for the money 911". BUT: the GT3 requires compromises and not everybody loves to have that rear wing.
    But if performance and handling are everything for you, go for the 997 GT3 and not X51.



    RC, you don't seem to realize....SoCal and SoFL have some of the most "sophisticated" car buyers and tuners in the world.....generations of P's and F's best engineers have been migrating there to peddle cheap solutions for underpowered factory-spec cars for highly skilled ricers/rappers short on cash.....


    Always love visiting LA to see the great "scenery" and to hear the latest great LA "ideas", like filling up the P/F w/87 oct when gas prices are too stiff (I'm sure those chips compensate for the lower oct when times are tough)......

    Re: X51 vs GT3

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Always love visiting LA to see the great "scenery" and to hear the latest great LA "ideas", like filling up the P/F w/87 oct when gas prices are too stiff (I'm sure those chips compensate for the lower oct when times are tough)......



    C'mon VKSF. Be fair. I think only SrfCty fills up his P/F with 87 Octane. I don't think anybody else does that.

    Re: X51 vs GT3

    Rc I agree !
    wait ....wait this winter ...and then get Gt3 .

    Re: X51 vs GT3

    The correct Revo website is http://www.revotechnik.com/

    Re: X51 vs GT3

    RC, I could't say it better ! It is not the first time you write a such long clever post about this subject (the tuners with a so-called "magic solution"), but as you said, people just don't listen (or don't think ?).

    Re: X51 vs GT3

    RC, you should know by now that the P-Cars true portential of a the car is set back by the computer for fuel efficiency and emission. Software upgrades unleash the cars true potential without any regards for fuel consumption and/or emission. I have had 6 Porsches and have done chip tunning on most of them, from the 928GTS to 911 Turbo and C4S and I felt the difference. Try it for a $1000 you have nothing to lose

    Re: X51 vs GT3

    Quote:
    edz61 said:
    RC, you should know by now that the P-Cars true portential of a the car is set back by the computer for fuel efficiency and emission. Software upgrades unleash the cars true potential without any regards for fuel consumption and/or emission. I have had 6 Porsches and have done chip tunning on most of them, from the 928GTS to 911 Turbo and C4S and I felt the difference. Try it for a $1000 you have nothing to lose



    Like I said before, you'll get a substantial gain on the Turbo and it may even be reliable if done properly. A lot of tuners just modify the boost pressure, they forget about fuel distribution, etc.
    On normally aspirated cars, chip tuning isn't worth it. You lower the life expectancy of the engine and if your engine brakes down and Porsche finds out...good-bye warranty.
    Of course the software is programmed pretty conservative to offer some "air" to the absolute limit of the engine. But it is a well adapted system, tested in many many hours on various cars and engine dynos. Most tuners don't even bother to do that, they buy a pre-programmed tuned software and adapt a few parameters here and there.
    Nethertheless: I also know that some tuners sell chip tuning using the argumentation that car companies don't unveil the full potential of their engines to avoid extensive warranty claims, etc. Do you really believe that?

    And finally, maybe you should throw a look at Techart, Gemballa and some other tuners who already offer such "inexpensive" kits to gain 25 HP more. SPORT AUTO tested these cars and guess what, not even close to the powerkit performance (14.9 sec. from 0-125 mph).
    If it sounds to be too good to be true, it usually isn't true. But at least you're lucky you never had to deal with engine repairs or refused warranty claims.

    Re: X51 vs GT3

    Bottom line my friend none of this stuff makes that significant of a difference and by the time you get a significant difference you have spent enough to buy a faster car stock from the factory. Plus someone will our kick our asses no matter how fast we are

    Re: X51 vs GT3

    go for the gt3,if you are looking for raw performance....about what rc said , dont you think that if it was that easy to upgrade the car ,porsche would had done it first? they should be mazoshist if they were changing the upper half of the engine ,the crankshaft, distribution and many other thing to gain these 26 hp ,if they could do it for a 1000 usd by altering the ecu. if they could do it ,they would have done it and charged us 8 times what evo charges us ,and we would have paid it with pleasure. i do not even believe about this "margin" that is left in the engine .they get the most out of it ,without altering the reliability.at least thats my opinion...

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 2/14/19 1:26 AM
    watt
    330986 2045
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 2/18/19 7:25 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    218138 1119
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 2/15/19 11:05 AM
    RCA
    145927 2579
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/18/19 12:45 PM
    chuckb
    60988 801
    Porsche Sticky Paint protection film 2/18/19 9:28 AM
    RCA
    16241 149
    Porsche Sticky Child seats in a 991 11/29/18 3:43 PM
    RCA
    14671 35
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet 2/18/19 11:28 AM
    RCA
    10118 127
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 2/18/19 8:51 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    3117 60
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 1/4/19 7:02 PM
    Topspeed
    486857 4255
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 1/29/19 10:07 PM
    nberry
    422072 5220
    Porsche 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) Thread Closed 11/29/18 11:38 AM
    RCA
    317576 3195
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/31/18 2:19 AM
    DJM48
    286601 2598
    Porsche Cayman GT4 2/14/19 7:29 PM
    WhoopsyM
    280458 2759
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 1/30/19 3:10 AM
    ha
    219256 2777
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 1/17/19 8:13 PM
    GoHardGT3RS
    195564 1789
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 2/18/19 10:28 AM
    RCA
    191503 3355
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 12/17/18 12:42 PM
    RCA
    157714 2491
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 8/31/18 10:25 AM
    WAY
    144594 757
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 5/22/18 9:16 PM
    RCA
    113003 789
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 5/3/18 7:52 PM
    CGX car nut
    107913 871
    Porsche Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 2/18/19 1:00 PM
    RCA
    99002 1370
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 12/7/18 10:15 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    68826 673
    Others Tesla Roadster 2/13/19 8:40 AM
    RCA
    57235 1723
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models 11/3/18 11:09 AM
    bluelines
    48404 477
    Others Tesla Model X Thread Closed 2/23/18 3:41 PM
    RCA
    43572 1122
    AMG AMG GT R 11/30/18 4:10 PM
    RCA
    43128 605
    Lambo Aventador and SV 11/19/18 8:31 AM
    RCA
    40844 472
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo S Exclusive Series (2017) 12/4/18 3:17 PM
    BiTurbo
    40608 650
    AMG Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 2/14/19 1:44 PM
    RCA
    40261 387
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Porsche Carrera T 12/13/18 2:27 PM
    RCA
    39205 804
    268 items found, displaying 1 to 30.