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    Re: Paint protection film

    He throt:
    bluelines:
    DaveGordon:

    That would be my biggest worry about getting PPF - finding a good installer.. How can you know up-front if an installer is any good?  I can see in the US there is a large community using these services and it's relatively easy to find feedback on them, but in Switzerland for instance, it's a bit of a lottery given the absence of any real info.

    Judging from the cars in the gallery I would expect these guys to do good job:

    http://www.foliendienst.ch/lackschutz/

    Awesome outfit, buddy.

    Did you wrap the Killah,  or are you too butch...

    He is too fast. Ppf don’t stick on his car smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Paint protection film

    the-missile:
    He throt:
    bluelines:
    DaveGordon:

    That would be my biggest worry about getting PPF - finding a good installer.. How can you know up-front if an installer is any good?  I can see in the US there is a large community using these services and it's relatively easy to find feedback on them, but in Switzerland for instance, it's a bit of a lottery given the absence of any real info.

    Judging from the cars in the gallery I would expect these guys to do good job:

    http://www.foliendienst.ch/lackschutz/

    Awesome outfit, buddy.

    Did you wrap the Killah,  or are you too butch...

    He is too fast. Ppf don’t stick on his car smiley

    Smiley Smiley


    --

    throt

    "I Have Done It!".

    991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

    991 GT3.2 pick up April/May 2018. ( Hairy Chest Spec ).

    Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 Exclusive pick up June 2013. ( Shit Box )

    Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.


    Re: Paint protection film

    After reading so much about paint protection films, I am more concerned with removing the film other than actually putting it on. Apparently some cars(paint) get damaged in the process. 

    I actually planned to use PPF on my new car (Performante), all of it, including the forged carbon parts but now I am a little bit worried. Should I do the whole car? Only the paint? Only the forged carbon parts and a ceramic coating for the paint? Not easy to decide, everyone tells you something else. yes

    Most people I asked tell me to use PPF and not worry about the removal but I'm not sure now...

    I also don't want the PPF installer to remove door panels and other stuff on my car because we all know what kind of issues this can cause.

    So right now, I am tempted to get the front done with PPF, also the forged carbon parts but the rest of the paint with a ceramic coating. Still not sure what to do though. surprise

    The PPF installer my dealer uses has a Performante himself and changes the PPF every couple of months to show what is possible. No issues according to him. Still...I am worried.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Paint protection film

    I think to change the PPF every couple of months or after some years (as the normal customer would do!) is quite a difference! AFAIK problems occur when PPF and glue get too old. yes


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Paint protection film

    RC:

    After reading so much about paint protection films, I am more concerned with removing the film other than actually putting it on. Apparently some cars(paint) get damaged in the process. 

    I actually planned to use PPF on my new car (Performante), all of it, including the forged carbon parts but now I am a little bit worried. Should I do the whole car? Only the paint? Only the forged carbon parts and a ceramic coating for the paint? Not easy to decide, everyone tells you something else. yes

    Most people I asked tell me to use PPF and not worry about the removal but I'm not sure now...

    I also don't want the PPF installer to remove door panels and other stuff on my car because we all know what kind of issues this can cause.

    So right now, I am tempted to get the front done with PPF, also the forged carbon parts but the rest of the paint with a ceramic coating. Still not sure what to do though. surprise

    The PPF installer my dealer uses has a Performante himself and changes the PPF every couple of months to show what is possible. No issues according to him. Still...I am worried.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     

    The concern with removal is more to do with painted on stripes etc. Agree on not removing panels. If you are going to do it you might as well do the whole car.


    Re: Paint protection film

    While I'm no fan of PPF, with modern films on a new car there should be no issue.  Assuming the installer / remover is competent.

    The big issue is with older cars and single stage paints, that could definitely lead to problems if not properly removed.  I would not PPF your headlights if you are considering it.  Removing the film from headlights usually leads to removal of the UV coating.

    As a point of reference I'm no professional but removing PPF safely off my 2015 GT3 just required using a bit of heat (steam in my case).  No damage done.  Despite what you may hear the film will eventually yellow, so if you keep the car for several years you may get to deal with that.  But even after several years, if done properly, it shouldn't be an issue.

    1550053674212IMG_1723.jpg

     


    Re: Paint protection film

    Paint removal is really only an issue if the film is applied to a feshly painted car. PPF removal issues issues usually occur where a car has had some panels resprayed and then the PPF has been applied too quickly.

    Modern water based paints require time to fully cure and seal themselves. It's around 10 years ago since I required warranty remedial paintwork on a Ferrari that was delivered from the factory with glaring paint flaws and the PPF installer advised to let the paint cure for at least two weeks before they would apply the film. This time may have changed in the intervening years. It really shouldn't be an issue on a factory paint finish. I'd imagine it is well worth protecting the carbon areas as those are low on the car so more vulnerable to damage.

    Beware of the ceramic coatings. They appear to provide reasonable protection for people who don't like washing their cars as they help prevent the light scratches and swirls caused by poor washing techniques. The downside of them is that once applied they need to be machine polished off. They do not provide any form of protection for stone (rock) chip damage.

    One thing to be aware of is that the PPF should have a good coating of some form of wax/polish on it. Bug splatter is a problem for these films if left too long on the car, especially in strong sunshine and high temperatures. I believe advances have been made with the film in this regard but am still wary that it will stain through the film.

     


    Re: Paint protection film

    Porsche is now offering a PPF option on the 992 . I guess it is safe to apply .

    Ceramic coating does not prevent at all from stone chips , even if the installer says differently . 


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991.2 GT3 RS 


    Re: Paint protection film

    If you have a nice level of OCD you will definitely want to apply PPF to the INSIDE of carbon parts; CFRP is famous for not showing much impact damage on the outside, whilst on the inside it may show massive fibre breakout. If you say you don't care, you are a poseur, cause that means you only want the CFRP for the looks and not the performance... smiley


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Paint protection film

    Both my GT-cars have film on the front part and mirrors. On the first outing a mirror got chipped just beside the film... Not a fan.

    With Joost's info a whole new 'can of worms' got opened! 


    Re: Paint protection film

    If you’re not tracking the car, why bother? Besides, you lease your cars and never keep them for an extended period of time. A waste of money. 


    --

    Stress is man made.


    Re: Paint protection film

    Gnil:

    Porsche is now offering a PPF option on the 992 . I guess it is safe to apply .

    Ceramic coating does not prevent at all from stone chips , even if the installer says differently . 

    Lamborghini offers the same for the Performante but apparently it is only a pre-cut kit which you need to apply yourself. Not very helpful. For the new Evo, I think they offer a complete install from the factory.

    The PPF guy in Munich uses Xpel, so I guess I'm good but I really need to talk to him about the install process, I really don't want them to take my car apart, even if they really have experience with sports cars (the owner drives a Performante himself).


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

     


    Re: Paint protection film

    DuckieRS:

    Both my GT-cars have film on the front part and mirrors. On the first outing a mirror got chipped just beside the film... Not a fan.

    With Joost's info a whole new 'can of worms' got opened! 

    Haha Duckie, no worries! Even though the technical side holds truth, there is no reason to go that far; The exposed carbon fibre parts are more aesthetics and maybe a bit of weight saving (if at all). They are rarely used as structural parts of the car and therefore even quite severe fibre breakout is not a safety issue. And you sure won't be able to solve it by applying some film me thinks. I was just pulling Christian's leg a bit. Smiley


    --


    Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys


    Re: Paint protection film

    I had A PPF stone guard put on the rear arch of my 997 after it had been painted the guy did a crap job and it wasn't lined up properly when I went to a pro place to do it properly the paint did indeed come off. The paint had been on for about 2 weeks so I guess it hadn't hardened enough. I had the 997 full frontal re PPFed last year, original stuff had been on for 9 years looked OK but I wanted the latest stuff, there were no issues with the paint when the 9 year old stuff was removed.

    I had my 720 fully PPFed when it was new apart from stone chips I think it gives a decent layer of protection against minor scuffs which would involve costly paint matching and I leave it in car parks sometimes no


    --

     

     

     

     

    997 GT2 2014 3.9 Mezger, 800PS @ 1.2 bar

    2018 McLaren 720S 

    993 Turbo, 2006 built 3.8, 577PS/797NM, 1440kg DIN sold to a worthy enthusiast.


    Re: Paint protection film

    well the high end OCD of this story is PPF preferably XPEL, pre-cut by computer (in that case no dodgy boy with cutter or pat removed) then apply ceramic coat on top of that crap and be happy smiley

    XPEL Ultimate Plus is really really good and this coming from track rats direct experience.indecision

    I applied ceramic coat on the wheels and I have no issue whatsoever in regards to dust break and related crap (fluid, etc..) wheels are usually experiencing. Few friends applied the ceramic coat on top of their PPF, I did not. the condom is more than enough for me and I am happy now to sometime wash the car at the corner of the street. the film heals on its own, magic!

    XPEL will be 10y warrantied so you are good to replace it at 9 years and make sure that your paint will be as NEW.

    PPF protects against stone ships and the carbon parts will thank you for that and your wallet as well. one piece of carbon from manufacturer or 2 and the price of PPF will be recovered. angry

    Don't forget to also apply the special film on windshield (not XPEL though) and again another piece of mind against stone chips kisson this very exposed parts.

    Go for it, I was against it, because your paint appears shiny and lose its original brightness but it is protected and for a very long time.

     


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Paint protection film

    It depends,

    For 99% for the installers, they do a better job with pre-cuts. But the pre-cuts have their limitations, some panels are bound to be not quite spec and the pre-cut doesn't cover the whole panels properly and leaving edges. Most capable installers will stretch the film to try and get to the edge.

    But if one can find a top, really top, like top 1% top film installer, then a hand cut film is the way to go.

    It will take a really long time to do a car, but there will be no edges shown and the film all wraps around the edges.

    I had such a guy did my 918 like 4 years when it was brand new. He hand cut every panels as there are no pre-cut templates yet.

    No paint damage and every edge is invisible. 

    Took him 2 weeks to wrap the car though.


    --

     

     


    Re: Paint protection film

    the only downside with top 1% hand cut is not the end result which is great because esthetic but more about the lack of gap between the panels where that play is required for twisting.


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Paint protection film

    the-missile:

    the only downside with top 1% hand cut is not the end result which is great because esthetic but more about the lack of gap between the panels where that play is required for twisting.

     

    Panels gaps are still there. Just that the film edges are tug nicely into the gaps. So one cannot see the film edges at all.

     


    --

     

     


    Re: Paint protection film

    FWIW, high end paint shops can repair paint chips for far less cost than PPF.

    I’m not a fan of PPF. It’s an incredible waste of money. It’s only redeeming feature is that it buys a false piece of mind. PPF also chips and when and if it does it’s more unsightly than apaint chip and more difficult to repair. 


    --

    Stress is man made.


    Re: Paint protection film

    nberry:

    FWIW, high end paint shops can repair paint chips for far less cost than PPF.

    I’m not a fan of PPF. It’s an incredible waste of money. It’s only redeeming feature is that it buys a false piece of mind. PPF also chips and when and if it does it’s more unsightly than apaint chip and more difficult to repair. 

    Hmm, interesting...visiting track days or drivers' education frequently I have a very positive view / experience with PPF...just saying... 


    Re: Paint protection film

    the-missile:

    Don't forget to also apply the special film on windshield (not XPEL though) and again another piece of mind against stone chips kisson this very exposed parts.

    Please give us details...Smiley

    In Germany it´s against the law, but I would love to do it for trackdays...

    Thanks

    Blueflame


    Re: Paint protection film

    nberry:

    FWIW, high end paint shops can repair paint chips for far less cost than PPF.

    How? You always see them if you look closely, even if airbrushed by hand.

    I’m not a fan of PPF. It’s an incredible waste of money. It’s only redeeming feature is that it buys a false piece of mind. PPF also chips and when and if it does it’s more unsightly than apaint chip and more difficult to repair. 

    PPF chips? Smiley When? After 10 years? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


    Re: Paint protection film

    Brand that I put on my car is called ClearPlex. 

    It is the ppf for windshield indecision

    invisible but just bring a bit of reflection from the dashboard.  


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Paint protection film

    RC:
    nberry:

    FWIW, high end paint shops can repair paint chips for far less cost than PPF.

    How? You always see them if you look closely, even if airbrushed by hand.

    I’m not a fan of PPF. It’s an incredible waste of money. It’s only redeeming feature is that it buys a false piece of mind. PPF also chips and when and if it does it’s more unsightly than apaint chip and more difficult to repair. 

    PPF chips? Smiley When? After 10 years? Smiley

    FWIW I have XPEL installed on my GTS and have had no issues with chips or fading. 

    https://www.xpel.com/shop/paint-protection-film


    --

    2016 Porsche 991 Carrera GTS  Black with AeroKit Cup Package,  2017 Porsche Cayenne Platinum  Purpurite Metallic, New York


    Re: Paint protection film

    I have seen plenty of cars with brand new PPF with rock chips in the PPF after one track outing.  If you drive on the road only and don't follow other cars closely then you will certainly lessen the chance.   But after a couple years you'll have rock chips in your PPF and to Nick's point you (if you want to fix it) will have to replace the entire section of PPF vs touch up the chip portion.

    I have XPEL on my '15 GT3 and it's trashed, rocker panels, front bumper, lights all have black spots from dirt building up in the chip areas.  Now my car has seen a fair amount of track duty and Porsche drives following other cars with sticky rubber flinging stones so it's an outlier.  

    But still PPF is just ~8 mils thick of plastic.  Eventually it will yellow if exposed to enough sun light (one year later on a white car in Florida and you'll see it yellow...ask Matt Moreman of Obsessed Garage) and eventually you will get rock chips.  The only important point in all of this is it will better protect your paint than anything else available so you just have to decide for yourself if it's worth it or not.  If you track a lot I'd say it's definitely worth it.  If not, I wouldn't but that's just me.


    Re: Paint protection film

    In my initial post I stated those that track a lot should consider PPF. 

    On resale, PPF doesn’t add any value. 


    --

    Stress is man made.


    Re: Paint protection film

    RC:

    After reading so much about paint protection films, I am more concerned with removing the film other than actually putting it on. Apparently some cars(paint) get damaged in the process. 

     

     

    I wouldn't worry about it so much.  Today's PPF comes off a lot easier.  I had a heck of a time getting ten year old PPF off my 2005 Lotus, the film was rock hard and chipping.  The key is to remove it after maybe 5 years if you are worried.

    That said, no matter how good the PPF, it's not as nice to touch as real paint and on white, it will discolor slightly, turning the paint to looking more yellow.  Therefore, I recommend just doing a full front, behind the rear wheels, and the side rockers (where most chips appear).  The rocker panels on BOTH of my cars take a huge beating whether I track or not.  The Lambo may have some other vulnerable areas, but what I described works well on most cars.

    Chips can be repaired somewhat, but it may not be 100% invisible, particularly for metallic paint.  What you cannot repair is pitting (as opposed to chips), that will stay.


    Re: Paint protection film

    On the other hand, if you only intend to put < 5k miles on your car before selling, I agree it's probably not worth it.  The two cars I have it on are 13 years and 3.5 years old respectively. Both driven as intended. :)


    Re: Paint protection film

    PPF is a personal choice...... If you hate rock chips then that's the only solution.... On my previous 911 I've  done ceramic paint protection under false expectations that it would protect against scratches etc...... It turns out it's just a glorified wax. 

    On my GT3 I've gone with custom PPF on the front up to the side mirrors, not precut, from one of the best installers in the country...... I am amazed with the way they have tucked in most of the edges, except around the head lights. I do lots of hwy driving so it's doing its job pretty well


    Re: Paint protection film

    A friend of mine just returned from a fun driving event in Austria, we had beautiful weather last weekend. 

    He drives a black Mercedes AMG GT S, his front, especially the hood, looks now as if someone fired hundreds of little stones on his front. The roads in Austria and Bavaria are still covered with grit and the cars in front of him were throwing everything against his front hood. He is thinking about repainting, something like that never happened to him before. I asked him to send me a smartphone pic, so maybe I can show it to you.

    I will definitely cover the front part of my car with a PPF...at least. Repainting costs much more.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)


     
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