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    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    Gauss:

    IMHO Lotus has completely changed...

     Thanks for the writeup, I agree that they are being very ambitious but from I've read and from news all over the world about Paris, it seems they are in their way to pull this off. It depends on how they do from here on out. 

    Thanks for the specific view on the situation and on the Elise. I know you're a diehard Lotus man and faithfull costumer so form a market and brand image point of view you opinion counts a lot. I'm a huge Lotus fan myself so I hope it works out for them Smiley


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

     Lotus, like all other companies, has to grow or die. It's as simple as that. And the market for superlight sport spyders is, as Lotus has proven, somewhat limited. The market for higher end, high quality GTs, coupes and sedans is much larger and, in much of the world, seems to be growing.

     

    Won't it all come down to how they drive? In the end, the world accepted Cayennes and Panameras because they at least gave a taste of Porsche performance in a bigger, less sporting vehicle. If Lotus can go after the GT market, currently occupied by 911s, XKRs, BMW 3 & 6 Series, etc., and still deliver a Lotus sport driving experience, they should do well, I think.

    This helps them build momentum and I'm all for it.

    I do think they seem to be flailing a little, design wise, but these are early days and this exercise may be designed to see where enthusiasts like us gravitate. If we like everything they show us, they're screwed! They need us to approve of a certain direction so they'll know how to lead on.

    And remember, one mark of a great company these days is their ability to be innovative beyond customer expectations. I would say Lotus just did that. Don't you agree?

     


    --

    Winning through radical experimentation.


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    Well, well, well this look really interesting: thanks Gauss.


    --

    GT3, Cooper S & CS


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    blueflame:
    WAY:
    Atzporsche:

    Yeah i mean they got their design down, however, the guts need to be doing the same. It really has to handle well being a Lotus. Then + marketing, i can see this working...


     

    I wouldn't worry about that. Their engineering company is who every company hires to improve their handling, so they know a thing or two about that. They need to hire someone out of Audi to make sure every button, every stalk etc is of high quality look and feel!


    They already hired this man:

    "According to a inform from Malaysia, Lotus owners Proton has hired the engorgement of ex-Ferrari, Porsche as well as Aston Martin employees (including Frank Tuch, a former Director of Quality Management during Porsche) "

     

    Blueflame Smiley

     In fact, that guy has in the meantime been hired by VW.


    --

    fritz


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    fritz:
    blueflame:
    WAY:
    Atzporsche:

    Yeah i mean they got their design down, however, the guts need to be doing the same. It really has to handle well being a Lotus. Then + marketing, i can see this working...


     

    I wouldn't worry about that. Their engineering company is who every company hires to improve their handling, so they know a thing or two about that. They need to hire someone out of Audi to make sure every button, every stalk etc is of high quality look and feel!


    They already hired this man:

    "According to a inform from Malaysia, Lotus owners Proton has hired the engorgement of ex-Ferrari, Porsche as well as Aston Martin employees (including Frank Tuch, a former Director of Quality Management during Porsche) "

     

    Blueflame Smiley

     In fact, that guy has in the meantime been hired by VW.


    Not quite right Smiley He WAS hired by VW - now he is back again at Lotus:

    http://motorzeitung.de/news.php?newsid=74096

    Blueflame Smiley


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    blueflame:
    fritz:
    blueflame:
    WAY:
    Atzporsche:

    Yeah i mean they got their design down, however, the guts need to be doing the same. It really has to handle well being a Lotus. Then + marketing, i can see this working...


     

    I wouldn't worry about that. Their engineering company is who every company hires to improve their handling, so they know a thing or two about that. They need to hire someone out of Audi to make sure every button, every stalk etc is of high quality look and feel!


    They already hired this man:

    "According to a inform from Malaysia, Lotus owners Proton has hired the engorgement of ex-Ferrari, Porsche as well as Aston Martin employees (including Frank Tuch, a former Director of Quality Management during Porsche) "

     

    Blueflame Smiley

     In fact, that guy has in the meantime been hired by VW.


    Not quite right Smiley He WAS hired by VW - now he is back again at Lotus:

    http://motorzeitung.de/news.php?newsid=74096

    Blueflame Smiley

    Thanks for the update. Smiley

    So he has an executive post at VW and a non-executive directorship at Lotus. Guess who'll be the first to know about it if things start to go wrong with Lotus' ambitious plans? 

    I hope they don't though. The auto world would be poorer place without Lotus.


    --

    fritz


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    Isn't that conflict of interest?  In Australia you won't find an exec from a compny as a Board member of another company in the same industry.


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    WAY:

    Isn't that conflict of interest?  In Australia you won't find an exec from a compny as a Board member of another company in the same industry.

    In the past I would have said that Lotus is so far away from really competing with any VW brands that there was no conflict of interests, but in view of the plans that Lotus has revealed in Paris ...............? Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    fritz:
    In the past I would have said that Lotus is so far away from really competing with any VW brands that there was no conflict of interests, but in view of the plans that Lotus has revealed in Paris ...............? Smiley

    Long distance between plans, show cars and their successful realization.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    I like the new Esprit a lot. Any technical data and possible price range ? 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    RC:

    I like the new Esprit a lot. Any technical data and possible price range ? 

     Esprit

    Layout 2 seater, mid-engined, rear wheel drive 
    Engine Petrol, hybrid optional 
    Hybrid technology Optional KERS 
    Cylinder V8 
    Capacity 5.0 litre 
    Power/Torque 620 PS / 720 Nm 
    Rev limit 8,500 rpm 
    0-100 km/h 3.4 seconds 
    Top speed 330 km/h 
    CO2 approx (CO2/km) 250 g/km** 
    Weight 1,450 kg 
    Seats 2 
    Transmission 7 Speed DCT 
    Drive RWD 
    Start of production End of 2012 
    Enters the market Spring 2013

    Price indication Circa £110,000

    Smiley


    --


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

     Here's an interesting discovery I have found on another forum :

    1986: Esprit HC 23.440 GBP - Ferrari 328 34.750 GBP = 67% 
    1995: Esprit V8 58.750 GBP - Ferrari 355 88.965 GBP = 66% 
    2012: Esprit 110.000 GBP - Ferrari 458 169.585 GBP = 65% 


    --


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    Uber cool observation Smiley


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    Wow Gauss, that's very accurate statistics. that's cool to see.


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    spec is sick......wow


    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

      http://www.lotusnewera.com/

    Login : Media

    Password : Lotus


    --


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    Fantastic site, specs, pics and videos


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    Lotus is keep saying 'up to 620ps'

    Is that 550ps normal and 'up to 620ps' with KERS or will they have two different variants with different engine output?


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

     The more I watch those pictures the more I dont know if I should hate it or just like it! 


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    Lars997:

     The more I watch those pictures the more I dont know if I should hate it or just like it! 

    Judging from the pictures these cars don't have a personality of their own. They are generic "supercar" shapes with elements that have been seen numerous times before.

    IMO to succeed at this level you need shapes with very individual character not just another dramatic futuristic shape.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    The point is, these are prototypes, they are here to sedate us.

    Before we can buy these cars, there will be lots of little compromise, maybe some more weight, maybe a little bit more expensive, they will have flaws we don't see yet and other car makers aren't sleeping either.

    So the question is: will they be competitive, when they hit the market?

    I think the best they can achieve is to be in the ball-park with other super-cars, that would be remarkable and something Lotus can improve on.



    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    great article, where do i buy lotus shares


    --

    indeed shifting is ancient technology - so is a fuel burning engine..  I happen to like both :) 


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    "Esprit will have to fight very hard for its customers,theres some serious competition out there,what it needs is the LFA V10 but i had a hunch Toyota wasnt going to give its flagship to someone else,will supercharged japaneese saloon engine be 'enough' in peoples minds"

    My thoughts exactly, you can't compete at that level (we're talking about ferrari/lamborghini/mclaren level) with toyota luxury saloon derived engines...the LFA engine on the other hand is something else, it's a specially designed race engine, and much better suited overall for the supercar league the esprit is targeted at.

    Oh and supercharging ? That is ridiculous, this is not a freaking muscle car ! I mean, all you get by adding the charger is (besides straight line speed, which no one really cares about) uncontrollable tire slip, low reliability, and that stupid supercharger whine. Not to mention extra weight, 1480 kg that's 100 kg more than the 458 Italia, and 180 kg more than the mclaren ! 

    So wth are they thinking with this car ? I thought Lotus were first and foremost about HANDLING, not straightline speed ! Just put the lexus V10 in it (which by the way, weights less than a V6; that is, less than 160 kg!) and be done with it. Or at least the ISF's V8, which in NA form should develop around 550 bhp if tuned properly (rev limit increased to 8500 rpm, modified air intake, exhaust, ecu, etc) but please, leave the supercharging crap aside...

     

     

     


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    It's still early and this is still the prototype.  You may yet see the LFA engine.


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    edmunds Interview : Lotus CEO Dany Bahar at Paris


    --


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    mariusv:Oh and supercharging ? That is ridiculous, this is not a freaking muscle car ! I mean, all you get by adding the charger is (besides straight line speed, which no one really cares about) uncontrollable tire slip...

     

    Why would adding a supercharger result uncontrollable tire slip, as a matter of course?


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    vantagesc:
    mariusv:Oh and supercharging ? That is ridiculous, this is not a freaking muscle car ! I mean, all you get by adding the charger is (besides straight line speed, which no one really cares about) uncontrollable tire slip...

     

    Why would adding a supercharger result uncontrollable tire slip, as a matter of course?

     Because that's what happens when you have 720 nm (and from low rpm) at the rear wheels...


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    The specs are fantasy for the moment.  Doubt whatever tune Lotus uses is going to put that much torque down low in the rev band.  Don't think it will be a problem for the Esprit.  I agree that a naturally aspirated motor is preferred, but I cannot conclude off the bat that the Esprit will have major traction problems. 

     


    Re: Lotus at Paris Auto Salon

    mariusv:
    vantagesc:
    mariusv:Oh and supercharging ? That is ridiculous, this is not a freaking muscle car ! I mean, all you get by adding the charger is (besides straight line speed, which no one really cares about) uncontrollable tire slip...

     

    Why would adding a supercharger result uncontrollable tire slip, as a matter of course?

     Because that's what happens when you have 720 nm (and from low rpm) at the rear wheels...

    Two words: Lotus Engineering


     
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