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    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    BiTurbo:

    http://www.bbc.com/autos/story/20130514-speed-evolved-911-turbo-s-vs-959

    Funny, however...not really helpful. None of these cars has the performance of the 991 Turbo S, so this is quite...how to put it...pointless.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RodoRS:

    With the Turbo and Turbo S Coupe released, when we'll see the cabriolets?

    According to rumors, 6 months after the Coupe release but I may find out more this afternoon, stay tuned.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    BiTurbo:

    http://www.bbc.com/autos/story/20130514-speed-evolved-911-turbo-s-vs-959

    Funny, however...not really helpful. None of these cars has the performance of the 991 Turbo S, so this is quite...how to put it...pointless.


    For me, only option #2 could be viable. If the S8 was replaced by a Cayenne, that would be even better.

    However, people who can afford a Turbo S wouldn't go into this utilitarian thinking process.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    For me, none of the choices make sense. I suppose the graphic has been made by someone who cannot afford the 991 Turbo S. angry For me, the 991 Turbo S is some sort of do-it-all car, I would even say it is closer to the 959 concept than any other 911 Turbo before. I always liked the idea of getting a 959 and the 991 Turbo S is in my opinion the modern variant of it, somehow. The new technology (90% of the car is completely new) also kind of tickles me and makes me curious. Those who had the luck to drive the 991 Turbo S say, that this car is unbelievably agile for such a heavy car. Let's see if they are right. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    For me, none of the choices make sense. I suppose the graphic has been made by someone who cannot afford the 991 Turbo S. angry

    I think it was made by an accountant Smiley


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    reginos:
    RC:

    For me, none of the choices make sense. I suppose the graphic has been made by someone who cannot afford the 991 Turbo S. angry

    I think it was made by an accountant Smiley

    Smiley  Maybe...or someone who thinks that only money counts, not the product itself.

    A friend I talked to recently, asked me if I'm not afraid to buy a pig in a poke (meaning: without having driven the car). Well...I kind of am afraid but I have no choice. If I wait until late September or October, the dealer won't have any production slots available for the next couple of months, so I would need to wait for the car at least until spring 2014. If things go bad for me and the car is in high demand, I could be even forced to wait longer. Not really fun on such an expensive car. Also, I kind of like the feel to drive something new. I had the first 996 Turbo from my dealer and the first 997 Turbo too and it was really a special feeling for at least a year because it takes really time until some of these cars start to show up on the street. Dealer loaners are pretty seldom in this price segment and customer cars will be still rare.

    That said, I think I know that I am taking a risk, especially since the new 991 Turbo S has barely 10% of the parts in common with the "old" 997 Turbo S but I try to believe those who drove the car already and with the new sound symposer, even the interior sound (engine/exhaust) should be OK this time, at least I hope so. I don't have any details yet but apparently it works similar to the Cayenne/Panamera GTS: When you press the Sport Plus button, the sound (outside and inside) gets raunchier, so the new 991 Turbo/S seems to have a flap exhaust too but not a sport exhaust option (not really needed if this is true).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    Spyderidol:
    nberry:

    Yes. You have a choice. Particularly valuable if you have a large purchases like a car, boat jewelry etc.

    Alan, you anti-tax crusaders are funny. Because I (as well as many others including Republicans) see societal value in taxes, you and your ilk often resort to the silly and ignorant argument you just posted. It is old, stale and honestly not worthy of your obvious intelligence. Smiley


    --

     

    The use of the words "silly" and "ignorant" are unnecessary (and false) in your reply Nick. This is symptomatic of the argument tactics of the left. You are entitled to your opinion (as are others). Refute what you don’t agree with, but don’t belittle differing opinions that are at the very least, as valid as your own.

    C'mon guys, really??? In the 991 Turbo/S thread? Smiley

    Back to topic, no more tax and stock market talk, some people may get bored. Smiley Smiley

    RC -

    Please accept my apologies for going off topic, but as you rightly hinted the previous dozen or so posts were as far off topic as this one, and you were merrily contributing. This won’t be discussed again in this post.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I've never understood this MwSt thing. RC, are you saying most exotics are leased in Germany because the tax authorities don't mind a Ferrari as a business expense?!


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Mea culpa...we should discuss tax stuff in the Off-Topic forum. wink


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    wedouglas:

    I've never understood this MwSt thing. RC, are you saying most exotics are leased in Germany because the tax authorities don't mind a Ferrari as a business expense?!

    I don't know about exotics but most Porsche cars in Germany are leased.

    In Germany, it doesn't matter if you lease or buy for the tax authorities but buying creates the problem of resale value and a possible profit after you sell the car (which would be a company profit in the eyes of the tax authorities), a lease is slightly more convenient for various reasons.

    Like in many other countries, the tax authorities over here take a closer look at those who buy expensive cars because they always suspect tax evasion. Smiley Especially if the dealer gives the buyer a very unusually high rebate.

    Let's continue this discussion in the Off-Topic forum...if there is any need.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I was talking about the future of tuning the latest Porsche turbo engines with Schmirler and he is decidedly downbeat about them, whilst his standards of "strength" in a Porsche turbo engine are pretty high  we know that others, Techart and Ruf appear to have successfully produced iterations of the A91 turbo with over 600hp I personally take what RS says fairly seriously. His informed opinion is that the latest VTG chassis is the biggest which will be designed so the hp will be physically limited.

    Baring the above in mind I am interested in just how "solid" the 560hp of the Turbo S will be ? will it be like all previous Porsche turbos where the rated power is there at maximum speed or will it perform only up to say 250kph and when going faster will it lose its rated hp through mixture richening/boost/timing alterations ? This is exactly what the Nissan GTRs do from the factory, when the are loaded and heated heavily they richen up and lose big power.

    The first A91 Porsche turbo was slower to 300kph than the older Mezger car - this may be indication of the engine losing its hp at high heat/load ?

    All this makes perfect sense as the market does not really care for performance over 200kph never mind 250kph - Porsche used to but maybe they are being smart ?

    Just how high can the GT2 and GT2RS power ratings get ?

    Final thought is that the 10K extra for the turbo S software may simply reflect the higher expected warranty claims of that over stressed engine in year 3 


    --



     

    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Schmirler doesn't have a clue about the latest 991 GT3/Turbo engine, so I would take his comment with a grain of salt. Smiley These engines are good for a lot of power but here comes the problem: A lot of attention has shifted to electronics and this complicates things, especially for classic tuners like RS. Do you know that most tuners actually buy the base TUNED software from a large US distributor in the US and just adapt them to their needs? Some even don't do anything to the software, the times of individual adaptation are pretty much over because it is too complicated. Software development has become a bitch...

    With the latest 991 Turbo/S, tuning has become complicated, to say at least. All systems are connected and this not only poses a problem, it also poses a serious threat for the driver of the car. A few of bad adjustments in the software and the driver could end up with some nasty surprises under certain driving situations.

    To be blunt: The time of simple software tuning is over and to be even more blunt, I wouldn't let any tuner touch my 991 Turbo/Turbo S engine. Too much can happen, I won't forget that crappy first tuning I had on my 996 Turbo when at 300 kph in a Autobahn curve, the boost pressure suddenly dropped from 1.2 bar to 0.3 bar (or was it 0.1?...I don't remember anymore) and I almost lost control of the car because it was very unexpected. No thanks.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    Schmirler doesn't have a clue about the latest 991 GT3/Turbo engine, so I would take his comment with a grain of salt. Smiley These engines are good for a lot of power 

    Jeeez RC, that is set of pretty sweeping unfounded atatements - even for you Smiley

    I think he probably has more clue than anyone outside Porsche but I guess you are surmising that  the latest turbo motor will be substantially different to the outgoing one (which I know Schmirler has bench tested to destruction and has in fact built  re engineered versions with serious power) which we don't know yet, there is no reason for it to share any of the new GT3 differences is there so odds on it will be changed very little ?

    What you are 110% correct about is the electronics and the systems as you say this will be the brick wall which will surely call a halt to any tuning.

    The horses wilting over 250kph is a real thing I believe and fits in perfectly with the consumerisation of Porsche products - we will see when the acceleration tests are done and I will refer back to this post .

     


    --



     

    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Schmirler has excellent knowledge of the Mezger engine but I doubt he has even seen the new GT3 engine, which is already the next M97 derived engine generation. Look at the specs, especially the motorcycle engine derived technology is quite amazing. The engine on the new 991 Turbo/S doesn't seem to have much in common with the "old" 997 Turbo/S engine and this engine was already completely different than the Mezger engine.

    I'm not aware that Schmirler did any 997.2 Turbo/S hardware mods, so this actually tells the whole story.  Reinhold is a master of the Mezger engine, not so much of the current and future 991 engines, I hate to say that. angry Please don't get me wrong, RS Tuning is a great tuner for Mezger run engines (incl. the older GT3 n/a engines), this isn't meant in a bad way, just pointing out some facts.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    He did in fact re engineer an A91 turbo with rods pistons and other strengthening mods and I think it was near 700hp but I understood there were inherent structural problems. You know he does much more than Mezger, he has built many 6 litre CGT motors, 6 litre Enzo motors and racing Ford GT bigger capacity 850PS jobs - fact is the old A91 was not up to his standards for a viable program.

    I agree about the new GT3 tech looking very exciting but do we think that ANY of this tech will be on the new turbo motor ?  Time will tell and I understand you are especially excited about this new car and I am very pleased for you, I couldn't quite get my head round you REALLY liking the PTS, I just think it is interesting to speculate where Porsche is going with its new engines and how they compare with what has gone before kiss


    --



     

    3.9  GT2 2011 make over


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    TB993tt:

    He did in fact re engineer an A91 turbo with rods pistons and other strengthening mods and I think it was near 700hp but I understood there were inherent structural problems. You know he does much more than Mezger, he has built many 6 litre CGT motors, 6 litre Enzo motors and racing Ford GT bigger capacity 850PS jobs - fact is the old A91 was not up to his standards for a viable program.

    I agree about the new GT3 tech looking very exciting but do we think that ANY of this tech will be on the new turbo motor ?  Time will tell and I understand you are especially excited about this new car and I am very pleased for you, I couldn't quite get my head round you REALLY liking the PTS, I just think it is interesting to speculate where Porsche is going with its new engines and how they compare with what has gone before kiss

    As much as I admire Reinhold Schmirler, he is a Mezger engine genius, I don't know much about his other work. I want to believe that he does the same great work he does with Mezger engines but experience counts a lot in this business and I'm not so sure his experience would be sufficient in a different domain.

    As far as I understood, the new 991 Turbo/S engine is basically a modified GT3 engine, minus the mods necessary to reach the extremely high engine speed of up to 9000 rpm on the GT3. It is also my understanding that the VTG chargers have a new technical design and use slightly different materials but I'm afraid there isn't much detail available yet. I hope to put my hands on the technical handbook at some point.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    In one of his many recent interviews on the new GT3, AP stated that the new GT3 engine would only by used for "cars with a GT badge". That would imply hat the Turbo/Turbo S engine is still essentially the A91 block, whereas any future GT2/GT2RS would benefit from the turbo-charged version of the new GT3 engine.

    In terms of motorsports engines, their design will also be based on this new basic engine, including N/A and potentially turbo versions. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I'm not sure that I follow. According to the interview I read, when asked if the new GT3 engine would be used in motorsport, AP stated that it would, but that they (Porsche) were not yet sure in what format.(Turbo,NA).

     

    FLATSIXES: Will the new engine in the 991 GT3 make it to Porsche motorsports? If so, can you say when and where?

    Andreas Preuninger: Sure, it was developed with this exact focus by the same engineers that did all of the flat-6 race and street engines in the past. The reason for not having the engine in the new 991 Cup is mainly timing, because Cup cars are already in production and the streetcar development is still ongoing, now in its last phase.

    Secondly, it is a totally different engine and as such, the education of the race teams on how to deal with the new technology is complex and has to be done right and in time.

    Future use of this engine in other 911 race cars is planned but in which form the engine will be used depends strongly on future regulations (for example turbo or non turbo).

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    That is precisely what I was trying to say.

    If I understand this correclty, though, any potential future turbo engine for motorsport would be based on the GT3 engine, and therefore be fundamentally different from the block used in the new Turbo/Turbo S.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    olli:

    That is precisely what I was trying to say.

    If I understand this correclty, though, any potential future turbo engine for motorsport would be based on the GT3 engine, and therefore be fundamentally different from the block used in the new Turbo/Turbo S.

    According to the information I have, the new 991 Turbo/S engine is based on the new GT3 engine design minus the motorcycle derived technology for the extremely high engine speed of 9000 rpm. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much information available right now about the 991 Turbo/S engine, not even if there is a hardware difference between the Turbo and Turbo S or if it is a software difference only.

    I have to rely on third party information and NOTHING is 100% sure for now because it comes from more or less semi-official sources. At some point, we are going to have more details but right now... Smiley

    I am actually a little bit disappointed with Porsche regarding their information policy. Not only regarding the new 991 Turbo and Turbo S but also regarding the new 991 GT3. There is a nice web special on the Porsche site, there is a nice video (GT3) with Andreas Preuninger on YouTube and some very short video clips (GT3 and 991 Turbo/S) and this is the whole story. They also introduced the 991 Turbo/S in a quite unspectacular manner and with a little audience in Moscow, something I also don't understand (not that it was introduced in Moscow but because it was everything very little, as if the 991 Turbo/S isn't really important, even if Dr. Porsche was there with Mr. Maier).

    Porsche customers want MORE, MORE information, MORE details, MORE passion. They just throw a car on the market and bye bye. C'mon, seriously??? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    olli:

    That is precisely what I was trying to say.

    If I understand this correclty, though, any potential future turbo engine for motorsport would be based on the GT3 engine, and therefore be fundamentally different from the block used in the new Turbo/Turbo S.

    According to the information I have, the new 991 Turbo/S engine is based on the new GT3 engine design minus the motorcycle derived technology for the extremely high engine speed of 9000 rpm. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much information available right now about the 991 Turbo/S engine, not even if there is a hardware difference between the Turbo and Turbo S or if it is a software difference only.

    I have to rely on third party information and NOTHING is 100% sure for now because it comes from more or less semi-official sources. At some point, we are going to have more details but right now... Smiley

    I am actually a little bit disappointed with Porsche regarding their information policy. Not only regarding the new 991 Turbo and Turbo S but also regarding the new 991 GT3. There is a nice web special on the Porsche site, there is a nice video (GT3) with Andreas Preuninger on YouTube and some very short video clips (GT3 and 991 Turbo/S) and this is the whole story. They also introduced the 991 Turbo/S in a quite unspectacular manner and with a little audience in Moscow, something I also don't understand (not that it was introduced in Moscow but because it was everything very little, as if the 991 Turbo/S isn't really important, even if Dr. Porsche was there with Mr. Maier).

    Porsche customers want MORE, MORE information, MORE details, MORE passion. They just throw a car on the market and bye bye. C'mon, seriously??? Smiley

    Agree, just a few years ago, when Porsche released, I believe, the 997.1 GT3 there was comprehensive information on the technology.  I remember the engine test stand set to replicate the loading of the N'ring. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    olli:

    That is precisely what I was trying to say.

    If I understand this correclty, though, any potential future turbo engine for motorsport would be based on the GT3 engine, and therefore be fundamentally different from the block used in the new Turbo/Turbo S.

    I'm sorry. I thought you were saying that the motorsport engines would be based on the Non-GT3 version of the A91


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Hi guys, its been a while but ive been reading this forum for several months now. im first on the list for the turbo at my dealer and i have struggled a lot between gt3 and turbo and now that I convinced myself the turbo is the better choice, im now struggling between it and the S. regarding tuning the 991TT i just spoke to one of the most prominent tuners in the US who a lot of you know, and he said that if the ecu on the turbo is anything like the ecu on the regular 991, it will be very difficult to tune due to the heavy encryption porsche has added to the 991 series.

    i have a couple of questions now that the US configurator is up and showing about 33k$ difference bewteen the turbo and S base prices, my questions are about performance and weight. first why is the S about 22 pounds heavier than the turbo? is it the slightly wider rear wheels? i thought the brakes are lighter, what gives?

    second: the US site has some interesting performance figures that doesnt match with those on european sites: 0-60 mph is listed as 2.9 for the S and 3.0 for the turbo, but they also list a 1/4 mile time of 10.9s for the S and 11.1s for the turbo: a 0.2s difference only and thats probably around 125 mph or 200km/h. european sites are citing a bigger difference in the performance with a 0.3s difference at 160km/h and 0.5s difference at 200 km/h. so if the turbo is really only 0.2s slower in the 1/4 mile, is it really worth it to pay the extra 34k$ for the different brakes/wheels/mirrors, when one can easily install a good exhaust on the turbo and get another 20hp or so, without tuning and without ruining their warranty.

    your input is always appreciated.... 


    --

    2011 CTT

    2005 F430

    2010 Audi S5

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    If brakes, mirrors and wheels are not important to you then the S is not worth the extra $34,000. The difference in performance for non track driving is miniscule.

    Does San Diego Porsche have allocations for the TT? 


    --

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    PCCB, PDK, Sport Chrono, and PDCC are standard on the S, and options on the Turbo.  Those standard features substantially reduce the difference of $34K between the Turbo and S.  The real difference in price is the engine---40hp more.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I have a 991s and got it with pdcc.  Depending on what you read, I wish I hadn't gotten it and instead got the lowered sport suspension (although I do enjoy the softer setting for almost all the time).  Reason being is the absence of body rolls is wonderful, but it seems to numb the sensory feedback in terms of what the car is doing.  I heard the description by lead engineer ( can't remember his name ) for the gt3  where he said it doesn't need it, (pdcc )  there is no body roll.  Maybe the turbo (s) is that much heavier or maybe they think their customer basis for the turbo will not like a defined/limited suspension setting, and want options?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    not yet, im told in the next month or two.

     

     


    --

    2011 CTT

    2005 F430

    2010 Audi S5

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Wonderbar:

    PCCB, PDK, Sport Chrono, and PDCC are standard on the S, and options on the Turbo.  Those standard features substantially reduce the difference of $34K between the Turbo and S.  The real difference in price is the engine---40hp more.

    yes of course i realize that. PDK is of course standard on both and actually if you add PCCB, PDCC, SPORT CHRONO, and the center lock wheels, you end up here in the US with 20.3k$ in options, meaning it still costs 13k$ for the extra 40hp and the 0.2 sec they shave off in a 1/4 mile, a bit steep in my opinion.

    im assuming the extra 22 pounds of the S are due to one of these options, PDCC maybe? which im not sure is needed in a car not made for frequent track work, so im not interested in it. the ceramic brakes are great, i have them on my 430 and i love how they keep my wheels clean, otherwise not needed in my opinion especially on a porsche turbo and its depreciation curve. the center lock wheels are a pain in the ass to remove and require 2 people or a very expensive torque multiplier, not to mention the still unkown maintenance program, so thats a no for me. the only option from those that is worth getting is the sport chrono of course and thats 4k$ in the US. 

     


    --

    2011 CTT

    2005 F430

    2010 Audi S5

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    13K USD is a bargain for 40PS extra, by Porsche standards and compared to what they have been charging for the various X51 kits.  


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    reginos:

    13K USD is a bargain for 40PS extra, by Porsche standards and compared to what they have been charging for the various X51 kits.  

    Exactly. 

    Surprisingly however, my dealer sold his first Turbo S to...me but he sold one regular Turbo for the same October allocation. He got four Turbo/Turbo S allocations for this year only and, surprise, surprise, the first cars go to customers after the IAA in Frankfurt (September), so there is also a September allocation but my dealer didn't get one, only an October allocation (apparently because he didn't want one because no one actually ordered a Turbo/S early enough, my decision came pretty late too).. Now we have to try to move his October allocation to a September allocation, which isn't easy. The first snow usually comes around mid/end November over here, so every week earlier counts for me.

    Oh boy, things are complicated. Smiley

    Btw, I finally ordered the Turbo S yesterday. Smiley

    Speaking of PDCC: The heavier the car, the more useful PDCC is. I love PDCC on my Panamera Turbo S but I do not like the Power Steering Plus. Luckily, Porsche decided to remove this option from the standard options, so I am not forced to have it on my car. If you like a firm steering/drive feel, even when driving slow or straight, do not order Power Steering Plus. It kind of provides a detached drive feel under the mentioned driving conditions.

    If you can afford the Turbo S, get the Turbo S, not the Turbo. Tuning the Turbo S will be a pain in the a.. because of the highly networked systems on this car.

    PCCB: Many believe that PCCB is only for track racing but they are wrong. Actually, PCCB is not the best option for serious track racing since the discs cost a fortune and they do not last that long when track raced. For me, PCCB has two major advantages: They stay quite clean (have you ever seen a 997 Turbo with standard brakes and brake dust on the rims?) but even better, they allow a very precise breaking point when driving hard, something I really love about PCCB. I can pinpoint my braking very precisely, only the tires seem to be the limit. You don't get the same accuracy with the standard brakes.

    Also a little hint for those who still want the Turbo (not the Turbo S): The Sport Chrono Package is a must have option for the Turbo. Don't say you haven't been warned.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


     
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