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    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC, technology is also created by people... So it is a synergy.

    Anyway, I was NOT taking sides. Everybody is free to choose what they like. My point was that Porsche shouldn't be blamed for creating products suited to their CURRENT majority of clients.


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    Rossi:
              RC:
              Rossi:
              amazon:

              Do not get me wrong. The 991 might still be a sportscar, but the car
              looks more and more like a GT.

    Agreed. And it more and more feels and drives like a GT. Smiley

              So how would a non-GT sports car drive and feel? Smiley Especially since you haven't
              even driven the new 991 Turbo S? Smiley I know that many don't like how the new 991 Carrera
              drives and feels but let me ask again: How should it drive and feel because it still is a lot faster
              than all the previous models? Should it be slower? Smiley Smiley

              The 911 is a wonderful sports car. If the 991 Turbo S is too easy to drive for you, I suggest getting
              the upcoming 991 GT2 RS. Pretty simple. The next GT2 RS is a 911 too, just in case you forgot.

              Stupid question: Why did you get a 997 Turbo S? Why not a GT3 RS 4.0 or GT3 RS? Just
              curious? Smiley

              I get the feeling that you are more upset at Porsche for putting a new 911 Turbo S on the market
              so soon, not because it is more of a GT. Smiley

    Do you realise, how stupid your above statement really is? Smiley

    Here we go again...


    Hmm, let me see, who started first? Smiley
     

    RC:
    German humor? Smiley You already picked up some swiss humor (vision sharpness), I am not surprised...you live near the Swiss border. Smiley


    Well, some have two kind of humor, some have none. SmileySmileySmiley
     

    Peace brother, you are the best. Smiley


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    ...on a side note...

    I have decided to go for the Turbo S wink


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Pentium:

    RC, technology is also created by people... So it is a synergy.

    Anyway, I was NOT taking sides. Everybody is free to choose what they like. My point was that Porsche shouldn't be blamed for creating products suited to their CURRENT majority of clients.

    You actually are without realizing it but this doesn't matter. Smiley This is a discussion and it is highly interesting to learn about other thoughts and experiences.

    Of course Porsche has to adapt to their potential customers but I think they do it much more with their other products like Panamera or Cayenne than they do with the 911. Look at me, I wanted more comfortable backseats and more leg/head room in the back of the 911 but Porsche didn't listen. Smiley Porsche tries to walk a thin line here while developing the 911 further but at some point, they need to make compromises if the 911 should survive.

    What worries me most right now regarding the 911 is the price tag. I think that the 911 has become too expensive. The 991 Turbo S at over 200k EUR is one thing but I recently configured a 991 Carrera 4S Cab with Powerkit, PCCB and other goodies and ended up at 180k EUR. This is insane for such a car. Smiley

    The 991 Turbo S approach (full options) is an interesting offer but I still think that this car is a little bit of a fraud if the only difference in power is software only. Right now, everything I know seems to confirm this. Would it have hurt Porsche to use a different airfilter box or different turbo chargers, just to make a point? There are these little things Porsche doesn't seem to care about anymore which worry me.

    Let's get back to the 991 Turbo/Turbo S and what I would have done different:

    1. Speedo cluster: Visual top speed is still 350 kph, why not 360 for example? Just to make a difference vs. the GT3.

    2. PDK shifter: Even the Turbo S carries a Turbo engraving only. Kind of weird, especially since there is a Turbo S badge everywhere else (Speedo cluster, PCM, front spoiler lip).

    3. Power: Would it have killed Porsche to use different (larger?) turbo chargers on the Turbo S and offer 580 hp instead? 60 hp more than on the regular Turbo, this would have been perfect. Considering parts(material) cost, this would have probably added a maximum of 100 EUR production cost to the whole thing. IF.

    4. LED lights: Why no "black" LED lights option? (similar to the Bi-Xenon black lights).

    5. Weight: Shaving off 50 kg shouldn't have been a major issue for Porsche. At least they should have kept the same weight as on the "old" Turbo S. Yes, the difference is minimal (20kg or so?) but with "only" 30 hp more, the weight increase is actually counter-productive. 

    I could continue with even less obvious little details but I think that Porsche should re-evaluate their pricing or at least offer customers more for their money. 

    I can't wait to get my Turbo S, why should I lie but I also know that this car is very expensive and not really the performance monster I have wished for. Maybe driving the car for more than an hour will convince me of it's qualities but right now, I am worried that I will be disappointed. I hope I'm wrong.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    FlatSix911:

    ...on a side note...

    I have decided to go for the Turbo S wink

    Smiley I plan to do a short weekend trip to lake Garda in October (after I get my car) with my son but a short trip to South France (around 800 km from my home) could be interesting too. Smiley Actually I wanted to get the car for my son's birthday in September, it was his biggest wish but that stupid delivery embargo kind of rained my parade. Smiley I am pretty sure that some dealers worldwide won't care about the embargo but in Germany, well...things are working the German way. Smiley So I don't expect to get my car before Oct. 5th (maybe if you guys send a petition to Porsche... Smiley Smiley). 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Let's talk color again: Does someone know what color this is? A little description: It looks slightly like a matte grey but has a greenish tone in it. Never saw this color in day light outside a dealership, so maybe this is Agate grey but it really looked weird. It looks very nice, my wife and the kids loved it too, so I would really appreciate any hint.

    I have the license plate of the car but unfortunately, I didn't write down his VIN number. With the VIN, I could have checked his color. The car had BB license plates but I don't think it was a factory owned car. The color is wonderful, like a metallic version of an army matte grey with a greenish tint in it.

    Any ideas? (click on photos for larger version). The most accurate (real life) color is on the second photo (darker color).

    col1.jpg

    col2.jpg


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Looks like agate grey metallic to me. Changes a bit in different lights, but it doesn't look like a paint-to-sample.

    rulesdontapply


    --

    2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
    2012 Porsche Cayenne S


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Thanks. It has a green tint in it, not very obvious but it looks really great (I hate green colors but the grey with the tiny bit of green tint reflection looks nice). I always thought that Agate grey has some brown in it??? yes


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I never saw the brown in agate, it looks like a solid grey under showroom lights but various ones I've seen around [very common on 991s in Kuwait, surprisingly] have that very slight green tinge you mentioned. It's a fabulous color, definitely one I'd consider on Porsche's sports cars or the Panamera.

    rulesdontapply


    --

    2008 Porsche Boxster S PDE2
    2012 Porsche Cayenne S


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    rulesdontapply:

    I never saw the brown in agate, it looks like a solid grey under showroom lights but various ones I've seen around [very common on 991s in Kuwait, surprisingly] have that very slight green tinge you mentioned. It's a fabulous color, definitely one I'd consider on Porsche's sports cars or the Panamera.

    rulesdontapply

    I never saw it either (dealer has a car but it is in the showroom, different light) but I think someone mentioned that there is a brown tone in Agate grey, which would be a problem for me.

    If the car on the photo has indeed an Agate grey color, I made the right choice for the Turbo S. This really is a very special color, especially compared to black. 

    Oh boy, why is this so difficult? In the past I chose black and I was done. Now it seems that black isn't the right color for the 991, so I have to make a decision. Tough choice. Smiley

    Thank you again.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Pentium:
    hussainh1:

    So what would you have instead if you had nearly $200k to spend? 

    Are you asking me or somebody else?

    I am asking you, genuinely.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Not much available for 200k.

    458 Italia? Gallardo LP560-4? MP4-12C? Mercedes SLS? Audi R8 GT?  yes


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    352% agate gray .... just like mt brother color he has c2s agate gray 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Agate Grey for sure.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Thank you guys, so I made the right choice. kiss

    Not so sure about the Black/Carrera Red bi-color interior anymore though. heart With the greenish tint in the color, the Black/Luxor beige bi-color combo seems to fit better. Or maybe Espresso natural leather... 

    Oh boy, this ain't easy. I just hope that I'm getting to see some of these combos at the end of the month at the factory.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    Thank you guys, so I made the right choice. kiss

    Not so sure about the Black/Carrera Red bi-color interior anymore though. heart With the greenish tint in the color, the Black/Luxor beige bi-color combo seems to fit better. Or maybe Espresso natural leather... 

    Oh boy, this ain't easy. I just hope that I'm getting to see some of these combos at the end of the month at the factory.

    Christian,

    That cabrio is Agate Grey as many confirmed. But... You MUST check that color on direct sunlight since it looks little bit different on direct sunlight. Also, do you still plan to get "blaked" wheels? That would not look to good IMHO on Agate Grey 991. I totally hate desing on both standard 991 Turbo wheels and standard CL Turbo S wheels, only optional 20" Sport Classic wheels in Black for me(exterior in Rhodium silver or GT silver with Black or Yachting Blue interior).

    Interior? If you decide to skip Black/Carrera Red then only two options are(for Agate Grey exterior) Black or Agate Grey interior. Check then in person as well if possible.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Thanks. A black interior would be quite boring (I want to try something else), the Agate grey interior is too light (my dealer has a 991 Carrera S with that interior), it looks very good but it is way too light (gets dirty fast, I also wear jeans most of the time). The 991 Carrera 4S Cab I posted the photos of was in direct sunlight too, I saw it, it really looks grey (like on the first photo) but gets a greenish tone when the sun disappears.

    Not sure what you mean by the "blaked" wheels? Do you mean the standard CL Turbo S wheels? I'm not a big fan of the standard Turbo S wheels design either but I can live with it. I actually like the Turbo wheels less.

    The Carrera S at my dealer, the one in Agate grey, has satin colored (I think, it could be Agate grey too...haven't asked) rims and they look perfect on the car.

    This is really a difficult decision: Plain black & black would be easy, same goes to white, red and silver exteriors, it is pretty easy to match an interior to these colors. Agate grey is tricky though.

    There are two exterior colors I already scratched off my list: Black and Red. Still thinking a little bit about yellow, considering the fun car status of the 991 Turbo S but while I loved a 991 Carrera S Cab in yellow at my dealer, I'm not so sure about the 991 Turbo S (massive rear could look weird in yellow). Also not a fan of flashy colors... 

    I need to see various colors live to be able to make a decision. I just hope Porsche gets a couple of cars ready before July 3rd (this is my fixed order deadline, after that, I cannot change anything anymore).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Standard Turbo S CL wheels are bicolor Black/Polished alu. I was talking about them. IF I decide to get Turbo S myself I will order that optional five spoke 20" Sport Classic wheel in Black(both option from November 2013 production). These wheels are normal 5 lugs which I find as benefite as well.

    Unfortunately, there is NO Platinum wheel option(matte color as on new GT3 wheels) for Turbo/Turbo S.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    hussainh1:
    Pentium:
    hussainh1:

    So what would you have instead if you had nearly $200k to spend? 

    Are you asking me or somebody else?

    I am asking you, genuinely.

    Depends on so many factors... Where you drive it... how often... Is it a daily driver or not... Road and weather types... Number of people driving it (like your wife or not)... Seats&luggage capabilities are important or not...

    To make it short, I believe that each car is tailored to a certain task. All cars are a trade-off.  For sure I don't believe in one-does-it-all concept...

     


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    black/red interior  1000000% there is no other color that fit agate more 

     

    maybe full red ??? but that will be kinda dull ... black/red is the best 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Pentium:
    hussainh1:
    Pentium:
    hussainh1:

    So what would you have instead if you had nearly $200k to spend? 

    Are you asking me or somebody else?

    I am asking you, genuinely.

    Depends on so many factors... Where you drive it... how often... Is it a daily driver or not... Road and weather types... Number of people driving it (like your wife or not)... Seats&luggage capabilities are important or not...

    To make it short, I believe that each car is tailored to a certain task. All cars are a trade-off.  For sure I don't believe in one-does-it-all concept...

     

    Let's say for arguments sake, one driver, temperate climate, can't be too flashy to attract attention from undesirables.  Daily driver, seats and luggage are unimportant.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    If so, a 911. It fits your description. All other are too flashy in my eyes... for instance, as a logical/objective filter, you could leave out any car that doesn't have regular doors or/and rear wings. Those are two elements that attract a lot of attention. Sound is another but that depends if the car has a sport exhaust button or not. And you may forget about a Lamborghini or Ferrari. Those are crowd magnets.

    Aston Martin could be an option too. Or even a Maserati if you can live with the issues...

    BMW M6, Jaguar, Mercedes coupe and so on I believe to be far from your 200K target budget.

    Also IMO a 911 Turbo can be really useful only in Germany. Otherwise I would save the money and get a C4S. I lose power but I get the sound. That's what I did. The new 911 Targa will be a very interesting proposal too.

     

     

     


    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I agree. 911 variants are the ones that fit the bill.  This is another justification for the higher price tags Porsche has been offering.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    I need to see various colors live to be able to make a decision. I just hope Porsche gets a couple of cars ready before July 3rd (this is my fixed order deadline, after that, I cannot change anything anymore).

    anthracite brown metallic and black/red bi colour interior ...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC, I'm right with you on this.

    Regarding the Power Steering Plus, I'm spec'ing my 991TTS and was considering it. I thought it just makes the steering lighter at parking speeds. I haven't got it on my 997 2 TT but I do have it on my X3 and it certainly takes the effort out of parking. Are there any reports comparing with and without the option?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    I'd be interested in reading that too.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    andrew34:

    RC, I'm right with you on this.

    Regarding the Power Steering Plus, I'm spec'ing my 991TTS and was considering it. I thought it just makes the steering lighter at parking speeds. I haven't got it on my 997 2 TT but I do have it on my X3 and it certainly takes the effort out of parking. Are there any reports comparing with and without the option?

    The power steering plus not only makes the steering "lighter" when parking but it also makes it "lighter" when driving straight, especially at lower speeds (not sure about it but I think it is active up to 30 mph). I have it on my Panamera Turbo S and I hate it (it is "light" when driving at slower speeds but gets sporty/direct when driving in fast curves but the switch between the two modes feels kind of artificial and even worse, the steering feels numb at slower speeds, which is kind of annoying because you can barely feel the street). Thanks god Porsche decided to make this an option, I guess they know why. Smiley

    On the 991 Carrera, the power steering plus feels better but still, there is a certain numbness at lower speeds but more important, it feels too light when driving straight and I don't like it. Especially in winter time or when the street is wet, you want to "feel" the street and the power steering plus kind of takes a little bit away from the direct feel at lower speeds. This is my personal opinion, I guess this is something each and everyone needs to try for themselves. I am pretty sure many dealers have a 991 testcar with and without power steering plus, so I would just take a testdrive.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    sfo:
    RC:

    I need to see various colors live to be able to make a decision. I just hope Porsche gets a couple of cars ready before July 3rd (this is my fixed order deadline, after that, I cannot change anything anymore).

    anthracite brown metallic and black/red bi colour interior ...

    Just the word brown makes me want to vomit...no offense. Smiley Brown and Porsche don't mix well in my opinion. Saw a brown Cab at my dealer...oh boy...it looked way too elegant, same goes for the Panamera and the Cayenne too. Also not a fan of green and blue colors on a Porsche, the greenish tint of the Agate grey under certain light conditions is the maximum deviation I would accept.

    Saw today another 991 C4S Cab in Agate grey, it really looks good but I'm still not sure it would be the right color for a 991 Turbo S. I need to see more color combos live, this is really not easy.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    If you exclude the 2 silvers and the white (for any reasons) then there is only Agate. No other real choice, I'm afraid.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    White looks nice but kind of too tame for such a car. I seriously considered yellow at some point but I guess this is only a color I can choose if I really want to attract attention, which I don't want to.

    So I'm afraid you are right, Agate is the best candidate right now but I really need to see a couple of colors live to make my decision. 

    There is still another option: I could use a foil in any color I choose, incl. matte colors, to cover the car in it. We have a very professional foil company near by, they do amazing jobs. I always wanted to have a matte grey car and this would go pretty well with a black/red interior. Not cheap though: Aprox. 6000 EUR for the 991 Turbo S.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), 991 Turbo S (Oct. 5th), BMW X3 35d (2013)


     
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