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    GT3 early problems

    Dear all,

    I am new to this Forum, and I really appreciate the fantastic competence of guys posting here!

    Last spring I was delivered my very first Porsche, a brand-new arctic-silver 911 GT3 Mk.II (or "Flatwing") with black interiors, bucket seats, xenon headlamps, central console and black safety belts (red ones were out of stock...). I purchased it from the only official Porsche dealership in Milan (actually owned by Porsche A.G. itself).

    I have not yet the chance to drive the "beast" on a track, but I count to do so next season (in the meanwhile I became a member of Porsche Club Italia).

    I must also confess, I am getting somehow addicted to my "valkyrie", especially to the engine sound (I usually drive with the driver's window down... even now in winter!) and to the extremely sharp handling... astonishing!

    But now let's came to the point. Unfortunately, since the beginning my "P-experience" was somehow affected by some problems, probably marginal, but very annoying in a 100K Euro + car. So, I am mow looking for additional feedback or advice from other GT3-guys within this Forum, to challenge answers I got from Porsche.

    Here below I reported problems already FIXED by Porsche dealership:

    1. At delivery time, internal plastic covers of the front flares were incorrectly assembled, so that when I completely turned the wheel, either fornt tire got in "soft" touch with the corresponding cover, making a worrying noise (but no damage at all).

    2. After one month, horrorific metallic sounds came out of the front axle whenever front wheels encountered a small bump on the road. According to Porsche, the problem (fixed) was due to the incorrect assembly of the front anti-roll bar. (I am wondering, do Stuttgart's people know about quality-checks along production lines? Or should they take a visit at Maranello? - joking...)

    Now, problems TO BE FIXED YET or issues Porsche cannot fix at all.

    3. Sometimes, the front struts seem to "ping", especially during very slow turns (like when parking). Porsche Service preliminarily told me (at the phone) it may be due to sporty "uniball" suspension joints, which lack rubber found on other 911 models. Probably a marginal problem, but it is being investigated this month by Porsche.

    4. Interiors are skweaking and rattling very often. My feelings are that skweaks originate from the central console and from the plastic frames of the seats, while rattles (due to resonances) may come from some dashboard components, from the window seals (both sides), and from the rear glass or even worse, from the rear wing (!) Skweaks occur in coorespondance with (even the smallest) road bumps, while rattles arise at medium speeds (around 80-100 mph), especially with full-open throttle, and tend to fade at higher speeds, regardless of road conditions. My concern is that in the first weeks of my ownership I could hardly notice any noise (indeed, initially I was very well-impressed by built quality, apart from the flare-covers...) I had my car already "visited" once by Porsche on this issue, but on that occasion everything sounded OK (since then, the situation got worse).

    5. Brakes tend to skweak after some usage (although braking force seems to keep strong as ever). Porsche said it is a known problem, there are no fixes, but it is not affecting car's performance or reliability.

    6. When idling, after a long and fast run, I hear a noise like "stones" rattling around in the cooling piping or in the engine (that's my feeling, not technical guessing!). Porsche said it is a known, non-fixable problem as well, and I was reassured again not to worry about.

    7. My car has the bad habit to gather up dried-up leaves, plastic bags and other litter from the road and "store" it inside the front bumper intakes, just before heat exchangers (no protective grid is present - at least on my car). Rarely, such stuff may alternatively "feed" the front brake air ducts placed under car's body. It is very annoying to clean up, and I am wondering if any serious damage can occur if such stuff is not promptly removed.

    Finally, a disappointing experience. Two weeks after I became a "Porscher", one of the front tires got a hole thanks to a screw some moron left on the road. I had my car towed to my dealership by the official Porsche Road Assistance, but the guy operating the tow, after having correctly uploaded the car (I attended the operation), downloaded the car in a hurry (I was NOT attending) and caused the "infamous" front plastics spoiler to be torn away... The point is that Porsche did not admitted its indirect fault (actually the tow belongs to a third party Porsche relies on) and so I was charged for a new spoiler replacement (little expense, OK, but I felt a little fooled...).

    Anyway, despite the misfortunes above, I am very happy with my car, because it makes me feel as the "king" of the road and provides me with plenty of emotions... Indeed, doctors should prescribe "Porsche" instead of "Prozac": both are antidepressants and both brands start with "P"!

    Thank you in advnace for any suggestion/advice/feedback you can provide to me! In the meanwhile, I wish you all a very Performing New Year! Wrooooom!

    Bye


    Re: GT3 early problems

    Ciao

    Glad to have you here..

    I have not a GT3 so i can't help you to much..but my Ex 996 Turbo after a few km was towed for a power steering problem(after some months was an official recall from Porsche)..

    I call the Porsche Assistance in Italy and they sent me the towing truck..fortunately the guy of the truck call me to know wich tipe of car is mine,becouse he has a big truck with nothing that can help to take a low car like ours on ...so i seid to delete my call and that i prefer to call a friend that has a a new towing truck made specially for sports car..it is low,with little wheels on the rear to make the car jump on easily..

    My friend take on the car bring to my Porsche Center in Varese..but after all i must pay my friend an noone give me some money....

    The problem is not for the money...but i think that Porsche Assistance know wich kind of car Porsche sells and maybe choose the right towing truck company is a little gift for all us......

    ciaociao..

    Re: GT3 early problems

    Nuvolari 35,

    My GT3 is about a month old, and about 100 miles past the 1,000 mile break in period. It's a wonderful car!

    As to your issues:

    1. Can you describe the incorrect and the correct installation? My wheels also touch when the steering wheelis turned to full lock one way or the other!

    2. This is a typical issue. My car actually lost a nut off the front sway bar! Others on the Rennlist have had the same issue. Blue locktite is suggested as an answer, and I will ask the dealer to apply some if the problem reoccurs.

    3. Does your "ping" sound like a moaning metal on metal contact? If so, I have that, too. I am about to have the dealer look at (listen to) it again. I thought the issue was fixed, but not yet. You can read some about it HERE .

    5. This is common, too. Look all the info available at Rennlist on this car.

    Re: GT3 early problems

    I'm not quite sure why you send him over to Rennlist, there is plenty of GT3 info available here, using the SEARCH function helps a lot. Our moderator zzboba owns himself a GT3RS. But I try to answer a few of the questions:

    1. that "clank clank" noise is pretty normal, there is not much you can do about it. I heard of a 996 Turbo Cab customer who apparently got new engine because of that and it also seems that there are cars which don't show that noise at all or not very audible but I think this has to do with engine build tolerances or something similar and it shouldn't worry you. I know several GT3 and 996 Turbo with that noise and these cars have already done a couple of tens of thousands (some over 80000) km with that clank noise and they didn't have any problems or performance related issues.

    2. if you don't like squeaks, rattle noises, etc. from the interior, you shouldn't have gone for the GT3. This is the price you have to pay for "lightweight" and an excellent chassis setup. I know two (former) GT3 customers who sold their cars because of rattle noises but this is ridiculous.

    3. the brake squeaking could be improved by going for the comfort brake pads (there are three different brake pads available for the GT3). But you don't really want to do it, especially if you want to track race your GT3.
    If you have the PCCB, there isn't much you can do about it, especially on colder outside temperatures. The new PCCB generation doesn't show those well known squeaks anymore but it isn't available for the 996 GT3.

    Re: GT3 early problems

    i own a GT3 as well,

    1. never heard of this, dealer incompetance to be blamed.

    2. probably something with the struts, or mabye the wheel bearings.

    Now, problems TO BE FIXED YET or issues Porsche cannot fix at all.

    3. never heard of this

    4. i believe interior squeaking/etc is normal in a car that is as 'stripped' as this one. it happens all the time in mine, and i accept it as part of the 'hardcore' porsche experience.

    5. high performance brakes squeak. period.

    6. the sound you may be hearing may very well be the sound of the exhuasts cooling , it may be the same sound that happens when the car is parked, after a HOT run.

    7. gathering up debris, is unfortunately normal. you may try to install a mesh in there.


    looks like you had some bad experiences with your dealer being incompetant, believe me when i say, everyone has to dela with that, some more than otherse unfortunately.

    that said, this is an excellent car, and the problems you have seem to be all minor, i hope you can sort them out, because this is truely the best drivers 911 EVER made

    Re: GT3 early problems

    You bought the wrong car!

    Re: GT3 early problems

    ouch thats a bit harsh jim, ya never know how badly this guys car is rattling.

    mabye its beyond the typical racecar stuff, and goes into really annoying!

    Re: GT3 early problems

    welcome to the board nuvolari!

    i drive a GT3 myself and most of the "problems" you mentioned are quite common -- i wouldn't even call them problems.

    Quote:

    1. At delivery time, internal plastic covers of the front flares were incorrectly assembled, so that when I completely turned the wheel, either fornt tire got in "soft" touch with the corresponding cover, making a worrying noise (but no damage at all).




    even this is not so unusual. and since you don't turn in completely while driving fast, it's harmless.

    Quote:

    3. Sometimes, the front struts seem to "ping", especially during very slow turns (like when parking). Porsche Service preliminarily told me (at the phone) it may be due to sporty "uniball" suspension joints, which lack rubber found on other 911 models. Probably a marginal problem, but it is being investigated this month by Porsche.




    don't worry too much, this is quite normal.


    Quote:

    4. Interiors are skweaking and rattling very often.




    although i have the impression my GT3 is built rock solid, there are some skweaks and rattles -- but don't forget that the suspension is ultra stiff! if you have installed the clubsport full roll cage, remove the front part. this reduces the rattling.

    Quote:


    5. Brakes tend to skweak after some usage (although braking force seems to keep strong as ever). Porsche said it is a known problem, there are no fixes, but it is not affecting car's performance or reliability.





    normal

    Quote:


    6. When idling, after a long and fast run, I hear a noise like "stones" rattling around in the cooling piping or in the engine (that's my feeling, not technical guessing!). Porsche said it is a known, non-fixable problem as well, and I was reassured again not to worry about.





    don't you just love it?? luigi once called this sound on the forum "agricultural noise".


    Quote:


    7. My car has the bad habit to gather up dried-up leaves, plastic bags and other litter from the road and "store" it inside the front bumper intakes,





    the GT3 is no HUMMER


    IMO you are a car-hypochondriac. the GT3 is no carrera or even mercedes. it's an ultra stiff car, made for racing. most of your "problems" are quite common and not to worry about at all. the GT3 is not a "perfect" car -- it's wild, it's loud. but that's why you feel being "king of the road". no pain, no gain

    enjoy!

    Re: GT3 early problems

    Mine makes most of those noises and more common ones that were not mentioned.Normal.Did not mean to sound harsh, but it is what it is, and those things will become less noticeable if you allow yourself to drive it and get use to it. The dealer is doing you a great injustice trying to apease you, but they probably don't know any better themselves.

    Re: GT3 early problems

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I'm not quite sure why you send him over to Rennlist, there is plenty of GT3 info available here, using the SEARCH function helps a lot.



    Sorry, no intention to insult. I did do a search ("gt3" in subject or body for the last 2 years) but came up with very few entries. It just seemed to me that there either more GT3 owners on Rennlist or they are more voluble over there.

    I am still eager to hear about issue #1 and how the incorrect installation was corrected. I am also eager to know about nature of the "pinging." I was told this was normal, but much of it disappeared when a missing sway bar nut was installed! What remains is a moaning sound that seems to be metal on metal. I would like to know what that is before I go back to the dealer.

    Re: GT3 early problems

    Dear all,

    Thank you very much, especially to Phokaioglaukos, RC, Moogle, zzboba and all the others who contributed, for your prompt and thorough responses. I apologize for losing contact with you these days, I was on vacation and my hotel's Internet Point was not running properly... their PC needing cam-belt service? (joking)

    Let's talk "business"... Next week or the following one (according to my and dealer's agendas) I'll have my GT3 inspected again by Porsche to assess whether the noises I hear are "normal" or require special care. My concern is to avoid "eating grass" on a track event because of a car's failure (I am worried enough about driver's failure!). Of course, I'll be glad to report you about any relevant information I can get from P-Service!

    Here after some more details about the early issues I mentioned in my original post:

    Issue #1 (full lock - especially of interest to Phokaioglaukos), Head of Service at my dealership told me something like "we added few joining parts to the internal plastics flare covers to hold them up". On my next visit at Porsche I'll be able to ask him for further details. Anyway, to tell the whole story, at first technicians told me it was a "10-minute job", but it became a 2-hour operation instead... anyway, the problem was definitely fixed for free (I ran some 4,000 Km since then - take into account I have to full lock the steering wheel to take my GT3 out and into my garage!)

    issue #2 (front axle noises). The problem seems to have been fixed on my car (probably something actually relating to the sway bar, as mentioned by Phokaioglaukos). Nevertheless, Porsche Service warned me about it being possibly a "recurring problem", so I have to pay attention whenever metallic noises come from the front axle, since it means bar tightening is required (I wonder if I'll get that job done for free by Porsche when warranty will be expired as well...).

    Issue #3 (front struts "ping"). Actually, I can hear the noise rarely, it sounds like a metallic spring being loaded (for anybody addicted to Warner Bros cartoons like me - this noise is very similar to the soundtrack of Wiley the Coyote compressing a spring in the attempt to launch himself to catch the Roadrunner...). Seriously speaking, as soon as I get feedback from Porsche, I'll let you know.

    Issue #4 (squeaks and rattles). I do know road/track cars usually have noisy chassis, and I accept this as far as it is "normal". Unfortunately, up to now I had no chance to test drive other cars like mine, so I do not hold any "benchmark", apart from Porsche's Service information (which, I presume, is top-class rated). My concern originates from the fact that in the first 2,000 Km my car was rocky-solid, while now (about 5,000 Km) some rattles resemble noises I experienced in a Fiat Panda I usually drove some 10 years ago! (not joking).

    Issue #5 (brakes). I do not have the PCCB (I read about a bunch of serious problems with first generation PCCB discs), and I'll follow RC's suggestion not to move to comfort pads, since I really want to track race my car this year.

    Issue #6 (idle rattles). The sound I hear is different from the typical one associated with exhaust cooling; indeed, when I turn the engine off, the former disappears, while the latter persists. As reported in my previous message, Porsche said this behaviour is quite normal and non-fixable.

    Finally, as you have probably guessed, I am quite "new" to road/track cars, so maybe I am a little over-concerned about car's noises, especially considering I just moved to a GT3 from a Mercedes SLK (Ok, ok, you can blame me, but I swear I have been always a true Porschophile, at least in theory!). I promise I'll take driving & racing courses to (try to) fill the gap!

    I'am really confident I can get a much better "hands-on" knowledge of my GT3 thanks to RennTeam's members. Again, thank you very much for your precious support!



    P.S.: Super Darius - Nice to find a "Porschista" in the neighbourhood of my birthplace (Varese) thanks to an international forum. Are you a member of Porsche Club Italia or any other "fraternity"? Again, about the "tow case", I indeed explained (by phone) to Porsche Road Assistance quite well how little ground clearance my car has, and (like you) I had to reject a first truck which was not suitable to tow a GT3. Then I reiterated my request to Porsche Road Assistance, and waited some 2 hours before another, "better equipped" tow came ("better equipment" being two wooden shelves...); I told you about the disappointing experience... I suggest a charity to donate Porsche a suitable tow for performance cars running in Lombardy...

    Re: GT3 early problems

    Quote:
    Nuvolari 35 said:
    Issue #6 (idle rattles). The sound I hear is different from the typical one associated with exhaust cooling; indeed, when I turn the engine off, the former disappears, while the latter persists.


    Any chance that this might be just the catalytic converters cooling off?
    (my first choice of words, 'cats', was a bit unclear )

    Re: GT3 early problems

    Thanks, Nuvolari 35. I look forward to your further data. (Is there a way to have this forum send an e-mail when a post appears in a subscribed thread?)

     
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