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    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    sulaiman:

    For the Turbo S price you can get a GTR and.....let's say Carrera S Smiley

     

     

    i think when u buy the turbo s .. u get more ... u get faster car than GTR nissan and a carrera .... plus u can drive them both in the same time :P 

     

    Does any of these cars do something better than the actual 991 Turbo S? Smiley

    Oh wait...double the parking space, double insurance, double repair/maintenance cost and so on. Yeah...really makes sense. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC, if I were you I'd just wait like a year if possible. I'm not sure how bad you want a very specific spec, but I think the used prices will be much more attractive after the first year. 991's have just gone up way too high in price and I think there are gonna be some big depreciation. I see a $145K C4S on ebay right now. That's more than a 2012 TTS cabrio! 

    Take that $200K and just buy some more BAC and AIG. In a year, you'll not only get a way better deal, but you may also have seen a nice gain ;)

    Unless money is of no concern, I think it's just really hard to rationalize buying new these days. 991 prices have severely outpaced inflation and I think depreciation could be significant even in year 1.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Perhaps this has been answered, but why does the 991 Turbo S cost so much more than the 997 Turbo S? The difference is far greater than between the 991 C2S and 997 C2S. Are more options standard now?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    palenimbus:

    Perhaps this has been answered, but why does the 991 Turbo S cost so much more than the 997 Turbo S? The difference is far greater than between the 991 C2S and 997 C2S. Are more options standard now?

    I asked my dealer the same question. He told me that there is a bunch of new technology. All new, that was never used in previous 911. I will meet him this evening on the Cayman presentation, so I will able to discuss the details


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    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    GT3 should've been lighter with or without an optional manual transmission which was killed for good enlightened distinguish was a must between the Turbo and GT3 (automatic boring workout vs human interaction with skill) both cars are equipped with PDK one with RWD setup N/a and the other one with AWD Turbocharged. A bit confusing if you ask me and they're both over 1,400kg.

    The Turbo will crush the GT3 in straight line and will be as fast if not faster on the track ? if this is true, then the GT3 should be discontinued in the upcoming 911 generation A Carrera S would be a better choice and much cheaper, ok, maybe slower on the track but the gap will be significant between it and the Turbo, but for the GT3 it doesn't make any sense perhaps (milk the cow ?)

    If I was in the marker right now, I would personally choose the Turbo S over the GT3 if they both set a lap time of under 7:30 (2 ~ 4secs won't be a biggie)

    - All Season 911 (AWD)
    - Extra 310Nm of torque which won't be a concern for an AWD to put down
    - Straight line performance - blistering fast
    - PDCC on/off button
    - Easy to mod/upgrade in the future
    - Choice between Center-Locking Bolt vs 5-bolts


    What I'll miss (GT3):

    - 9,000RPM
    - 2WD (always on top of my list)
    - N/a exhaust sound at full throttle
    - Steering feedback
    - Still not sure how the PDK-S works on the GT3 ?
    - Lifting System
    - Smooth and linear power delivery of N/a engine
    - Less headache and confusion with the options which are mandatory in the Turbo/Turbo S (e.g. not interested in pcm / sun roof / burmester etc...)
    - Optional brakes - Steel vs PCCB
    - GT3 guise with a fixed rear wing
     

    Just my 2 cents angry


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    I am a little bit disappointed that Porsche wasn't currageous enough to offer 2.9 seconds as a factory claim but like I said before, Porsche is very cautious about certain claims because they could bite them in the a.., especially in Europe and especially in Germany (their third largest market). Over here, they actually seem to advertise the low(er) fuel consumption more than the performance. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

    FYI, on the Porsche USA website it does claim 0-60 of 2.9 seconds.  :)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    wedouglas:

    RC, if I were you I'd just wait like a year if possible. I'm not sure how bad you want a very specific spec, but I think the used prices will be much more attractive after the first year. 991's have just gone up way too high in price and I think there are gonna be some big depreciation. I see a $145K C4S on ebay right now. That's more than a 2012 TTS cabrio! 

    Take that $200K and just buy some more BAC and AIG. In a year, you'll not only get a way better deal, but you may also have seen a nice gain ;)

    Unless money is of no concern, I think it's just really hard to rationalize buying new these days. 991 prices have severely outpaced inflation and I think depreciation could be significant even in year 1.

    Well said. 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    keithos27:
    RC:

    I am a little bit disappointed that Porsche wasn't currageous enough to offer 2.9 seconds as a factory claim but like I said before, Porsche is very cautious about certain claims because they could bite them in the a.., especially in Europe and especially in Germany (their third largest market). Over here, they actually seem to advertise the low(er) fuel consumption more than the performance. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

    FYI, on the Porsche USA website it does claim 0-60 of 2.9 seconds.  :)

    I did a short test last year from 0 to 62mph in my GT2 applying half throttle only without power shifting and set a 4.1s via vbox on a brand new set of Michelin PS Cup (N1) before upgrading.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Regarding factory claims for performance in a straight line -

    For years the factory has always been very conservative because most of their best numbers were generated by manual transmission cars (the Tip Auto, except in the case of the 997 Turbo was always slower) and they wanted the times to be repeatable without abusing the transmission and clutch.  Many testers were able to beat the times set by the factory by simply shifting quickly and being a little more abusive, in a manner that Porsche chose not do in their 'repeatable' tests.

    Now that PDK as arrived and everyone can use launch control (no brainer, no skill required) the times Porsche is claiming are much less conservative (IMHO) and more in line with what the magazines are finding.  The .5 second Porsche 'allowance' has diminished to maybe .2 or even .1 seconds thanks to PDK and launch control.  I guess what I am also saying is that the manual transmission cars, in the real world, are not as slow compared to the PDK as one would suspect.

    Personally I don't ever find myself at a stop wanting to drop the clutch and going full bore to 200kmh (I have other bills to pay).  I prefer to let the clutch out normally, get rolling and then give it the beans with a smooth shift to second and then let it rip to 75mph or so.  That gives me all the fun I need and it still beat any other cars in traffic around me in a resounding manner to the point where I pray there are no Police watching.  For this type of driving the manual is just as quick as the PDK and much more fun.  For comparison I would love to be next to a PDK Turbo in 3rd gear at 50mph and mine in 3rd at the same speed and see who wins the 3rd gear pull to 100mph.  My bet is that the lighter manual car would win.  To me that is a better test of performance in the real world.

    It would be interesting to see what 'rules' Porsche had in place to test the manual transmission in terms of abuse for these tests. I.e. how much do they abuse the clutch or baby the shift vs. the PDK.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    My reason for buying a GT3 is a different driving experience than all of my previous cars. It is more of a track car which I have never owned. Based on AP recent interview and if his wife is to believed the car will retain much of its rawness and that is what I am looking for. If I don't like it I will sell it. But I am betting I will like it. AP has a lot at stake and Porsche is going to great lengths (still tuning it even after introduction in March) to make this car spectacular.kiss


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    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    if u option the 991 TT with same STd option as TTS  then the price gap will be less $9000

    so for 9000$ i get 30hp and 40Nm  its worth it ... thats much cheaper than the 17000$ option for the carrera power option

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    MKSGR:
    KresoF1:

    AFAIK Porsche will insist for a Supertest with standard tires.

    It seems that Porsche does not offer other tires - i.e. the setup is adjusted to standard tires. Switching tires without adjusting the setup would not be good for the performance, I guess.

    The 997.2 Turbo S is a very dull car, a dull dragster which does not handle so well (a 991 S is faster in corners -- check reviews in the US).

    Sorry to wash down the dream car


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    artur777:

    Christian, and I agree that GTR usually performs worse than claimed factory figures)) vice-versa Porsche))))))))))))

    Look at this video...tuned (612 hp) Nissan GT-R and stock 997 Turbo S.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcRmLUgHCFI

     

    Also check out this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1dURDtM9Uw

    Another one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLuI2R6mQ8w (driver in the GT-R: "he is faster than me...")

     

    Nissan is full of sh.t, sorry to say that.

    Still...for that kind of money, the GT-R is a blast.

    ++++++++++++++++++++
    For the sake of completeness, you could state the conclusion of the Motor Trend 997.2 Turbo S vs GT-R, which does not look good for the TurboS.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    PBS2010:
     

    ++++++++++++++++++++
    For the sake of completeness, you could state the conclusion of the Motor Trend 997.2 Turbo S vs GT-R, which does not look good for the TurboS.

     

    The Motor Trend journalist who tested both cars liked the GT-R much more, he said it several times but I do not agree with him at all. The numbers actually speak a different language, on the track and straight line. I think the GT-R did the slalom slightly faster but everything else, well...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    SportCarGroup:
    palenimbus:

    Perhaps this has been answered, but why does the 991 Turbo S cost so much more than the 997 Turbo S? The difference is far greater than between the 991 C2S and 997 C2S. Are more options standard now?

    I asked my dealer the same question. He told me that there is a bunch of new technology. All new, that was never used in previous 911. I will meet him this evening on the Cayman presentation, so I will able to discuss the details

    According to some previous rumors, the new 991 Turbo and Turbo S are practically new from the ground up, only 10-15% of the parts are actually from the old 997 Turbo and Turbo S. If true, this kind of would justify the higher price tag but of course I don't know if this is true...yet (many rumors right now, nothing specific, I wish Porsche would put more details online).


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    artur777:
    RC:
    artur777:

    I have read at another forum that 991 Turbo S managed to lap the NBR for 7:26, previous model was 7:32.

    good news that it's faster than MP4-12C and CGT

    bad news that itmismstill slower than GTR and GT2RS, as well as ZR1 and Aventador.

    hope this time will be improved later:)

    The Nissan GT-R with 530 hp (previous generation) did the Nordschleife in 7:36 min. Impressive? Yes. As good as Nissan claimed ("under" 7:20)? No. While the Nissan GT-R did 0-100 kph in 3.3 seconds, the 0-200 kph time was quite disappointing, 11.5 seconds. There are a couple of YouTube videos showing the 997 Turbo S and the Nissan GT-R head to head and the Turbo S always wins as soon as the speed increases.

    The latest Nissan GT-R has been tested in Hockenheim only and while the time is impressive for such a heavy car (1:10,1 min), the GT3 RS 4.0 is still better.  Btw: The "old" 530 hp version did Hockenheim 0.1 seconds faster. Smiley Speaking of straight line acceleration: The latest GT-R did 0-100 kph in 3.4 seconds, again 0.1 seconds slower than the previous model. Factory claim? 2.7 seconds. Ridiculous. Keep in mind that both were Nissan factory cars specifically put at the disposition of Sport Auto and again, manufacturers know that Sport Auto is doing dyno tests of test cars.

    The previous 997 Turbo S did the Nordschleife in 7:44 min, not 7:32. We are talking Sport Auto test figures here, not manufacturer claims (not ware though that Porsche ever claimed 7:32 for the 997 Turbo S but I may be wrong).

    The Ferrari 458 Italia did the Nordschleife in 7:38 min, 0-100 kph in 3.5 seconds and 0-200 kph in 10.6 seconds. These times were much better in other reviews but keep in mind that Ferrari knows that Sport Auto is doing dyno tests of test cars. Smiley Ferrari didn't complain about these figures, so I guess everything was OK.

    This video actually proves very well that the previous 997 Turbo S and the Ferrari 458 actually had the same straight line performance. The 997 Turbo S gets away a little bit better from stand still due to the AWD but the distance between both cars stays practically the same all the way down until the finish, so I doubt that any 458 can do 0-200 kph in under 10 seconds...oh well...maybe in reviews. Smiley

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSHL5_yIvII

     

    The Aventador did 7:25 in the Supertest, which is quite impressive. I'd say that HvS will manage to do under 7:30 in the 991 Turbo S on the Nordschleife but this guess is only based on a discussion about the time Porsche achieved with the stock car on the Nordschleife during final testing. It could be 7:32, it could be 7:29 but something around these numbers.

    The MP4-12C did 7:28, which is quite impressive too but McLaren was apparently afraid of delivering a more powerful car for the test (Sport Auto started to dyno the cars they test to make sure that manufacturers do not cheat) because the 0-100 kph time was 3.4 seconds and 0-200 kph was 9.8 seconds. The 991 Turbo S will easily beat the first time and rumors indicate that the Turbo S actually does 0-200 kph in 10 seconds flat oder maybe even a couple of hundreds of a millisecond below that, which would be confirmed by the fact that the previous 997 Turbo S usually did the 0-200 kph run in slightly over 10 seconds, 10.6 was the worst I've ever seen in a review over here, the 0-100 kph time was always 3.1 to 3.2 seconds.

    To get the times we are talking about here in a better perspective, just keep in mind what time the fantastic 997 GT3 RS 4.0 did on the Nordschleife: 7:30. So the 991 Turbo S is faster...with only 60 horses more but a 250kg weight "penalty". Smiley

    Don't get me wrong, I know that the new 991 GT3 would still be the better track car (similar track performance but much lighter and thus much more likely to withstand more than a couple of fast runs without any brake/tire issues) but for a "GT" like many call the 911 Turbo, this isn't bad at all, don't you think?!

    Just for a fun comparison: The Aston Martin DBS did the Nordschleife in 8:02 min, the Jaguar XKR-S in 8:03 min. This clearly proves that the 991 Turbo S plays in a completely different "GT" league. Smiley

    That said, I think that the new 991 Turbo S will rock but why should I lie? I am a little bit disappointed that Porsche didn't shock the competition with a 0-100 kph time of 2.6 seconds and a 0-200 kph time of 9.5 seconds claim. Maybe Porsche was afraid that this would look bad in car reports outside the usual car magazine pool or maybe they are quite conservative with their factory claims, at least this is what I heard and I really hope it is true. For the benefit of Porsche and of course for my benefit, if I decide to go for the 991 Turbo S. Smiley

     

     

    Christian, veryy interesting! I agree that NBR time below 7-30 will be very good result for a GT car!

    Also I agree that 997.2 Turbo S managed to run from 0-100 for 3.0-3.2 secs and 0-200 from 10.0-10.5 secs. Really it was always faster than claimed by Porsche (0-100 for 3.4 secs, 0-200 for 11 secs)

    Thus, new 991 Turbo S could be really faster than claimed. I expect 0-100 time about 2.8-2.9 secs and 0-200 time about 9.6-9.8 secs. Do you agree?

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++

    This discussion around Nordschleife times is irrelevant.  Nordschleife times fascinate the crowds.  It is entertaining.  It is interesting, in theory.  But what for?

    We should have a poll and see how many of us have actually driven a fully road-legal Porsche (or another fully road-legal car) on the Nordschleife under 8:00 or even under 8:30.  I will not even mention going under 7:30 with any road-legal car as I am sure no one on this forum has ever done it.  It is like trying to go and climb the K2 running.  You may be thrilled at the thought, but will never make it or never come back alive.  Going that fast on the loop is insane for anyone other than a pro driver with a lot of experience of that particular track.  More than insane, as a matter of fact, I believe it cannot be done.

    So let us take this poll and then get back to a more useful and rational discussion on points which actually matter for the Porsche road-legal sports cars buyers and drivers.

    Cheers.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    wedouglas:

    RC, if I were you I'd just wait like a year if possible. I'm not sure how bad you want a very specific spec, but I think the used prices will be much more attractive after the first year. 991's have just gone up way too high in price and I think there are gonna be some big depreciation. I see a $145K C4S on ebay right now. That's more than a 2012 TTS cabrio! 

    Take that $200K and just buy some more BAC and AIG. In a year, you'll not only get a way better deal, but you may also have seen a nice gain ;)

    Unless money is of no concern, I think it's just really hard to rationalize buying new these days. 991 prices have severely outpaced inflation and I think depreciation could be significant even in year 1.

    Fully agree.  You are absolutely right.  FYI, on the German site used 991 Carrera S of less than a year and fully loaded with a low mileage are offered at a 25%+ discount.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    PBS2010:
     

    ++++++++++++++++++++
    For the sake of completeness, you could state the conclusion of the Motor Trend 997.2 Turbo S vs GT-R, which does not look good for the TurboS.

     

    The Motor Trend journalist who tested both cars liked the GT-R much more, he said it several times but I do not agree with him at all. The numbers actually speak a different language, on the track and straight line. I think the GT-R did the slalom slightly faster but everything else, well...

    +++++++++++++++++++++++

    If only figures mattered, you could pick a 90/60/90 woman but end up with someone with an ugly face! Smiley


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    wedouglas:

    RC, if I were you I'd just wait like a year if possible. I'm not sure how bad you want a very specific spec, but I think the used prices will be much more attractive after the first year. 991's have just gone up way too high in price and I think there are gonna be some big depreciation. I see a $145K C4S on ebay right now. That's more than a 2012 TTS cabrio! 

    Take that $200K and just buy some more BAC and AIG. In a year, you'll not only get a way better deal, but you may also have seen a nice gain ;)

    Unless money is of no concern, I think it's just really hard to rationalize buying new these days. 991 prices have severely outpaced inflation and I think depreciation could be significant even in year 1.

    Money of course is of concern but I lease my cars and leasing a used car usually costs me more than leasing a new one. Yes, there is going to be a depreciation, maybe even a huge one but the lease offer I got is quite OK (not amazing though) and if my dealer agrees in lowering the initial payment a little bit, I'm in. I plan to lease it for four years, maybe five years and after that, I don't care anymore. Of course I could buy the car and probably "save" 20-30k EUR on the long run (4-5 years) but this means that I would need to put 120k EUR more on the table right now. 120k I can use for buying BAC and AIG and whatever. Smiley

    The reason I lease my cars? Simple: I cannot buy such an expensive car for my company, the IRS wouldn't accept it. If I buy it privately, I "loose" the 19% VAT, which would render the car practically unsaleable in Germany. By leasing the car, I have the following advantages: The car keeps the VAT, so the dealer is open to new deals whenever I want. The car looses it's value but I couldn't care less since I have a mileage lease, not a remaining value lease. I keep half of the money for investments or whatever, in 4-5 years, I usually double it (no kidding). Let's get a serious energy crisis on our hands or another economic crisis and such a car becomes unsaleable at that time. I remember how many people in Germany offered used Ferraris and other precious cars in 2008/2009 and even 2010, at pretty low prices and nobody wanted to buy them.  I do not have this risk. I lease the car, I drive it for four years, maximum 40000 km and I return it to the dealer, no questions asked, no strings attached, bye bye. For me, this is a huge advantage.

    I had a temptation to actually get a 997 Turbo Cab (because my wife wants a Cab) but I decided to be very egoistic and go for the latest 991 Turbo S Coupe. This is going to be my car only, my choice only, nobody got mixed up in this decision. I also considered the new 991 GT3 but while it may be a fantastic car and fun to drive, the 991 Turbo S is the much better daily driver and Autobahn car. In speed limited countries, I would probably choose the GT3 instead but I cannot ignore the fact that I love driving fast too and the 991 Turbo S is clearly the winner here. 0-300 kph difference between the GT3 and the new 991 Turbo S is rumored to be almost 10 seconds (34 seconds for the 991 Turbo S according to rumors), so go figure.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    wedouglas:

    RC, if I were you I'd just wait like a year if possible. I'm not sure how bad you want a very specific spec, but I think the used prices will be much more attractive after the first year. 991's have just gone up way too high in price and I think there are gonna be some big depreciation. I see a $145K C4S on ebay right now. That's more than a 2012 TTS cabrio! 

    Take that $200K and just buy some more BAC and AIG. In a year, you'll not only get a way better deal, but you may also have seen a nice gain ;)

    Unless money is of no concern, I think it's just really hard to rationalize buying new these days. 991 prices have severely outpaced inflation and I think depreciation could be significant even in year 1.

    Money of course is of concern but I lease my cars and leasing a used car usually costs me more than leasing a new one. Yes, there is going to be a depreciation, maybe even a huge one but the lease offer I got is quite OK (not amazing though) and if my dealer agrees in lowering the initial payment a little bit, I'm in. I plan to lease it for four years, maybe five years and after that, I don't care anymore. Of course I could buy the car and probably "save" 20-30k EUR on the long run (4-5 years) but this means that I would need to put 120k EUR more on the table right now. 120k I can use for buying BAC and AIG and whatever. Smiley

    The reason I lease my cars? Simple: I cannot buy such an expensive car for my company, the IRS wouldn't accept it. If I buy it privately, I "loose" the 19% VAT, which would render the car practically unsaleable in Germany. By leasing the car, I have the following advantages: The car keeps the VAT, so the dealer is open to new deals whenever I want. The car looses it's value but I couldn't care less since I have a mileage lease, not a remaining value lease. I keep half of the money for investments or whatever, in 4-5 years, I usually double it (no kidding). Let's get a serious energy crisis on our hands or another economic crisis and such a car becomes unsaleable at that time. I remember how many people in Germany offered used Ferraris and other precious cars in 2008/2009 and even 2010, at pretty low prices and nobody wanted to buy them.  I do not have this risk. I lease the car, I drive it for four years, maximum 40000 km and I return it to the dealer, no questions asked, no strings attached, bye bye. For me, this is a huge advantage.

    I had a temptation to actually get a 997 Turbo Cab (because my wife wants a Cab) but I decided to be very egoistic and go for the latest 991 Turbo S Coupe. This is going to be my car only, my choice only, nobody got mixed up in this decision. I also considered the new 991 GT3 but while it may be a fantastic car and fun to drive, the 991 Turbo S is the much better daily driver and Autobahn car. In speed limited countries, I would probably choose the GT3 instead but I cannot ignore the fact that I love driving fast too and the 991 Turbo S is clearly the winner here. 0-300 kph difference between the GT3 and the new 991 Turbo S is rumored to be almost 10 seconds (34 seconds for the 991 Turbo S according to rumors), so go figure.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

    0-300 for 34 secs for 991 Turbo S is way too slow - 

    i think 997 Turbo S was about this figure... 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    artur777:
    RC:
    wedouglas:

    RC, if I were you I'd just wait like a year if possible. I'm not sure how bad you want a very specific spec, but I think the used prices will be much more attractive after the first year. 991's have just gone up way too high in price and I think there are gonna be some big depreciation. I see a $145K C4S on ebay right now. That's more than a 2012 TTS cabrio! 

    Take that $200K and just buy some more BAC and AIG. In a year, you'll not only get a way better deal, but you may also have seen a nice gain ;)

    Unless money is of no concern, I think it's just really hard to rationalize buying new these days. 991 prices have severely outpaced inflation and I think depreciation could be significant even in year 1.

    Money of course is of concern but I lease my cars and leasing a used car usually costs me more than leasing a new one. Yes, there is going to be a depreciation, maybe even a huge one but the lease offer I got is quite OK (not amazing though) and if my dealer agrees in lowering the initial payment a little bit, I'm in. I plan to lease it for four years, maybe five years and after that, I don't care anymore. Of course I could buy the car and probably "save" 20-30k EUR on the long run (4-5 years) but this means that I would need to put 120k EUR more on the table right now. 120k I can use for buying BAC and AIG and whatever. Smiley

    The reason I lease my cars? Simple: I cannot buy such an expensive car for my company, the IRS wouldn't accept it. If I buy it privately, I "loose" the 19% VAT, which would render the car practically unsaleable in Germany. By leasing the car, I have the following advantages: The car keeps the VAT, so the dealer is open to new deals whenever I want. The car looses it's value but I couldn't care less since I have a mileage lease, not a remaining value lease. I keep half of the money for investments or whatever, in 4-5 years, I usually double it (no kidding). Let's get a serious energy crisis on our hands or another economic crisis and such a car becomes unsaleable at that time. I remember how many people in Germany offered used Ferraris and other precious cars in 2008/2009 and even 2010, at pretty low prices and nobody wanted to buy them.  I do not have this risk. I lease the car, I drive it for four years, maximum 40000 km and I return it to the dealer, no questions asked, no strings attached, bye bye. For me, this is a huge advantage.

    I had a temptation to actually get a 997 Turbo Cab (because my wife wants a Cab) but I decided to be very egoistic and go for the latest 991 Turbo S Coupe. This is going to be my car only, my choice only, nobody got mixed up in this decision. I also considered the new 991 GT3 but while it may be a fantastic car and fun to drive, the 991 Turbo S is the much better daily driver and Autobahn car. In speed limited countries, I would probably choose the GT3 instead but I cannot ignore the fact that I love driving fast too and the 991 Turbo S is clearly the winner here. 0-300 kph difference between the GT3 and the new 991 Turbo S is rumored to be almost 10 seconds (34 seconds for the 991 Turbo S according to rumors), so go figure.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4

    0-300 for 34 secs for 991 Turbo S is way too slow - 

    i think 997 Turbo S was about this figure... 

    997.2 Turbo PDK 0 to 300 tested by Sport Auto - 41,7s

    Member from 6speedonline did it in 36,6s

    I hope the 34s for the new Turbo S was on winter tires going downhill Smiley good luck chasing an Aventador & F12 on the highway


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Isnt mclaren not around 28 secs with the 625 hp Version...


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    Conrad2:

    Currently configuring my Turbo S and thinking about selecting the new black/red interior with agate grey.  Any thoughts regarding this color combination?  Also, thinking about not getting the Burmester - would this be a mistake?  My hearing is not that great and really wonder if there would be that big a difference for me.

    Hey...you stole my color combo. Smiley

    Smiley

    Agate grey met. and the Black/Carrera Red Bi-color interior is the combo I am going to order if I can finalize the deal.

    I actually wanted to go with black but if I choose black, some of the design elements get "lost", so I take a slightly lighter color. The interior is kind of an experiment for me, never had such a flashy interior but I think it is time to get something for exciting, especially since the Turbo S is going to be my fun car.

    Burmester? I love it in my Panamera, the sound is amazing but in the much smaller 991 Turbo S, I don't know if it is really that much of a difference vs. Bose. I decided not to order Burmester and I hope I do not regret it. I have Bose in my Cayenne GTS and while there is a difference between Bose and Burmester, it is less obvious than I thought, especially with the kind of music (Dance, Hip Hop, Trap, Electro, R&B, Smooth Jazz, etc.) I'm listening to. Classic music sounds really better with Burmester though. I have a very good hearing and the difference between Bose and Burmester exists but to me, it isn't worth the added price. It also adds weight... Smiley Smiley

    Not sure what to do with the sunroof: The glass version is more expensive but also adds black paint in front and back, which kind of makes a nice contrast to the Agate grey metallic color. On the other hand, the regular sunroof is cheaper and probably lighter (no heavy safety glass) and it is no secret that added weight to the roof can actually change a car's handling behavior. Unfortunately I have no idea or information on the weight difference but if the glass roof weights 5 kg or more than the regular roof, I will go for the regular one. Just need to find a way to find out. Smiley

    RC,  are you going with center lock wheel?  I like the new wheel, but it sure rules out a lot of nice wheels if I ever wanted a change.  Any views as to resale impact if I elect no sun roof?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    artur777:
     

    0-300 for 34 secs for 991 Turbo S is way too slow - 

    i think 997 Turbo S was about this figure... 

    Last number I remember for the 997 Turbo S was 36 something, so I don't know if 34 is slow. Again...rumors (the 34), so take it with a grain of salt. There isn't much official information available right now (I wonder why...they want to sell this puppy, don't they? Smiley), I really miss a precise info about the technical differences between the 991 Turbo and Turbo S.

    The thing is: The 991 Turbo cannot be too fast (at least not on paper) because it would get awfully close to the 918. Just imagine if customers see 8.x seconds for the 918 and 9.x seconds for the 991 Turbo S, this is already a psychological thing, so the 991 Turbo S has to stay above 10 seconds. Just a guess though (and something I discussed with somebody but you never can be sure about these decisions since not only one person is involved).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Conrad2:
    RC,  are you going with center lock wheel?  I like the new wheel, but it sure rules out a lot of nice wheels if I ever wanted a change.  Any views as to resale impact if I elect no sun roof?

    Yes, I am going with the center lock wheel. Porsche improved the center lock mechanism, even casual track fun shouldn't really create any problems anymore but according to my understanding restrictions  still apply (similar to Porsche race cars) when track racing the car on a regular basis. I am trying to get the same wheels as winter wheels included in the lease deal somehow, so the higher cost of the center locking wheels doesn't bother me.

    I do not use aftermarket wheels, did this twice, always had a bad experience when driving hard, so I stick to OEM wheels only (learned my lesson).

    Over here in Germany, not selecting any type of sunroof could really hurt resale value but since I lease the car...well...I couldn't care less. I'm still thinking about going for the metal sun roof, not the glass one (which seems to look nicer though, especially with the black paint in front and in the back) but I haven't decided yet. 

    I didn't choose full leather and PCM navigation on my former 997 Carrera GTS Cab and my dealer hasn't sold the car for almost a year now. He retrofitted PCM navigation but he cannot retrofit the full leather and every potential customer (there have been many) asks for full leather on a Cab. Bad for the dealer, no real issue for me. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    Dario:

    Isnt mclaren not around 28 secs with the 625 hp Version...

    The 997 GT2 RS does 0-300 kph in 28.6 seconds.

    The Corvette ZR1 does 0-300 kph in 35.4 seconds.

    The Lexus LFA does 0-300 kph in 50.6 seconds.

    Mercedes SLS AMG in 42.4 seconds.

    Importracing Nissan GT-R (tuned to 590 hp): 36 seconds.

    Porsche 997 GT3 RS 4.0: 41 seconds.

    Finally...McLaren MP4-12C...trara...31 seconds. (Sport Auto tested two MP4-12C, one did 9.7 seconds from 0-200 kph, the other one 9.8 seconds, so this should be the real deal on stock cars Smiley).

    So the 34 seconds I mentioned sound quite believable but of course I would be glad to see a better time. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:
    120k I can use for buying BAC and AIG and whatever. Smiley

    Or Apple ? indecision


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    LukasLuis:
    RC:
    120k I can use for buying BAC and AIG and whatever. Smiley

    Or Apple ? indecision

    I have enough Apple...diversification is important. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    RC:

    Finally...McLaren MP4-12C...trara...31 seconds. (Sport Auto tested two MP4-12C, one did 9.7 seconds from 0-200 kph, the other one 9.8 seconds, so this should be the real deal on stock cars Smiley).

    So the 34 seconds I mentioned sound quite believable but of course I would be glad to see a better time. Smiley

    that was the 600hp version sport auto had. I do think the 625hp mapping will be close to the 28 secs.

    The gallardo supperlegera was around 31 secs as well.

    I do think 34 secs will be close to reality,special when the 7the gear isnt a proper one. (no info about that) lets see


    Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

    There is not much info available right now, which is a pity. 

    I also agree that considering the steep price hike, I would have expected a better performance.

    On the other hand, there isn't really a comparable car on the market, sorry to say that. Maybe the next Nissan GT-R but I think we all know that nobody seriously considering a 991 Turbo S would go for the GT-R. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


     
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