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    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    fritz:
    m4ever:

    When someone above is saying that he is a fading star because he prefers the CGT to the 918 that  it is truly disrespectful to a person that dedicated an important part of his life in developing Porsches and in the process doing this extremely well.   

    I think that Wonderbar was just suggesting that that there might be a little dissonance between Porsche and Walter for him to express views which might not exactly correspond with the "party line", but the fact is that he has always been his own man and spoken his own mind with only limited regard for what PR people might ideally like to hear coming out of his mouth.  Smiley
    The bottom line is that the people who pay him know how much he really is worth because journalists respect him both for his plain speaking and his ability to demonstrate what cars are capable of, and they have to accept his independent attitude. 

    Fritz : I believe so, no offense meant to Wonderbar of whom I enjoy reading posts. The fact that Walter Röhrl expresses candidly his views adds to the value of his contribution to the Porsche brand and does not detract (in my opinion) . He is an immensely successful racing and development driver and his perspective is a very unique  one and it would be pity to taper it because of corporate PR reasons.  Smiley


    --

    911 Club Coupe, 993 4S Riviera Blau, 12' Audi S4 Avant


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Thanks for all the honest comments, folks.  Perhaps I overstated my impression of Rohrl's comments, and perhaps I come from a  business world where comments such as his are noticed and remembered.  Just seems to me that a noted Porsche spokesman--at a time when the 918 is clearly represented as the pinnacle of Porsche development--could have chosen his personal words a bit more wisely.  

    We all make mistakes, and perhaps I was the first one when i made my rather hasty comment...

     


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Hmm, I think you guys are mis-reading him.

    You have, of course, been heavily involved in the development of the new 918 Spyder, as you were with the Carrera GT. Which is your personal favourite?


    "If I have to choose for a future car, I would take the Carrera GT. The car is slower, and it is much more difficult to drive, but it's more how I expect the car to be."The 918 is something highly sophisticated; it's very fast, it's very easy to drive, but it doesn't give you the same feeling as the Carrera GT. Of course if somebody is asking me which to buy, I will always tell them: take the 918. With it, your life is easier, and your life is safer. But the sound of the 10-cylinder; this alone is something which is unique!"

    That bold and italic part is the key. He would choose the Carrera GT simply because he is the accomplished race car driver, we normal people with little skills should pick the 918 because it's a better car and a car that doesn't need race car driver skills to operate and won't kill us. 

    So he is right on the party line. The Carrera GT is only for highly skilled drivers, the other 99.9% shouldn't drive one, they should get the 918 instead.


    --

     


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    Hmm, I think you guys are mis-reading him.

    You have, of course, been heavily involved in the development of the new 918 Spyder, as you were with the Carrera GT. Which is your personal favourite?


    "If I have to choose for a future car, I would take the Carrera GT. The car is slower, and it is much more difficult to drive, but it's more how I expect the car to be."The 918 is something highly sophisticated; it's very fast, it's very easy to drive, but it doesn't give you the same feeling as the Carrera GT. Of course if somebody is asking me which to buy, I will always tell them: take the 918. With it, your life is easier, and your life is safer. But the sound of the 10-cylinder; this alone is something which is unique!"

    That bold and italic part is the key. He would choose the Carrera GT simply because he is the accomplished race car driver, we normal people with little skills should pick the 918 because it's a better car and a car that doesn't need race car driver skills to operate and won't kill us. 

    So he is right on the party line. The Carrera GT is only for highly skilled drivers, the other 99.9% shouldn't drive one, they should get the 918 instead.

    Plus, I don't think Porsche is exactly going to lose any 918 sales from his comments. It's not like you can order a CGT from them today.


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    apias:

    Plus, I don't think Porsche is exactly going to lose any 918 sales from his comments. It's not like you can order a CGT from them today.

    You can get two used CGT for the price of one new 918. With immediate delivery Smiley

    On a more serious note, Wally is spot on. Two very different cars for two differs kind of buyers.


    --

    2014 981 Boxster S | Riviera Blue | PDK | Sport Suspension (-20mm) | PCCB | PTV | PSE
    2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

    Previous
    2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
    2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
    2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
    2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Wonderbar:

    Thanks for all the honest comments, folks.  Perhaps I overstated my impression of Rohrl's comments, and perhaps I come from a  business world where comments such as his are noticed and remembered.  Just seems to me that a noted Porsche spokesman--at a time when the 918 is clearly represented as the pinnacle of Porsche development--could have chosen his personal words a bit more wisely.  

    We all make mistakes, and perhaps I was the first one when i made my rather hasty comment...

     

    You did not make a mistake and should not backpedal from your prior post. It made a lot of sense.

    Presently, Porsche is embarking on a media blitz to sell the  last half of their 918 Spyders. For WR who is respected and followed by car enthusiasts to say that the CGT is his favorite car because the 918 is too easy to drive (though true) implies the 918 lacks the excitement of the CGT. 

    He helped develop the 918 and if at the end of the day he prefers an older model, buyers might question spending close to a million dollars for the 918. It is what thing to be blunt and speak your mind but another if you lack the sensitivity of the occasion.Smiley


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    IMO Walter's comments just highlighted the different emphasis placed upon the two Porsche suoercars and the changing trends over the last decade. Nothing wrong with that. Nevertheless, the CGT is not available new today so as to steal sales from the 918 and many of today's buyers prefer the new car's raison d'etre rather than the old car's raw and allegedly dangerous nature.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    WR comment's are not out of place . I also take it , that for a ' normal' driver the 918 is nicer but for an expert like him ( and that is 1% of the people, the CGT is more rewarding .  Any sensible person knows he can not compare himself to WR . 


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Spyderidol:

    Hmm...Mark Webber has a GT2RS.....just saying.

    Mark Webber is not your typical customer, isn't he? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    RC:
    Spyderidol:

    Hmm...Mark Webber has a GT2RS.....just saying.

    Mark Webber is not your typical customer, isn't he? Smiley

    I think that Spyderidol's point was that Mark Webber is not the type to buy himself "toys for managers".  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    fritz:
    RC:
    Spyderidol:

    Hmm...Mark Webber has a GT2RS.....just saying.

    Mark Webber is not your typical customer, isn't he? Smiley

    I think that Spyderidol's point was that Mark Webber is not the type to buy himself "toys for managers".  Smiley

    I know, this is why I said that Mark Webber isn't your typical customer and he can actually enjoy the car to it's full extent...if he wants to. Smiley

    He doesn't own a Boxster though, if you get my point. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    RC:
    fritz:
    RC:
    Spyderidol:

    Hmm...Mark Webber has a GT2RS.....just saying.

    Mark Webber is not your typical customer, isn't he? Smiley

    I think that Spyderidol's point was that Mark Webber is not the type to buy himself "toys for managers".  Smiley

    I know, this is why I said that Mark Webber isn't your typical customer and he can actually enjoy the car to it's full extent...if he wants to. Smiley

    He doesn't own a Boxster though, if you get my point. Smiley

    Too extreme for him Smiley


    --

    2014 981 Boxster S | Riviera Blue | PDK | Sport Suspension (-20mm) | PCCB | PTV | PSE
    2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

    Previous
    2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
    2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
    2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
    2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    RC:
    fritz:
    RC:
    Spyderidol:

    Hmm...Mark Webber has a GT2RS.....just saying.

    Mark Webber is not your typical customer, isn't he? Smiley

    I think that Spyderidol's point was that Mark Webber is not the type to buy himself "toys for managers".  Smiley

    I know, this is why I said that Mark Webber isn't your typical customer and he can actually enjoy the car to it's full extent...if he wants to. Smiley

    He doesn't own a Boxster though, if you get my point. Smiley

    Walter R is getting a Boxster Spyder though


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    GR:

    Walter R is getting a Boxster Spyder though

    That was an interesting comment that he was "ordering" one. (I believe that was the word he used.) As someone, I think, pointed out earlier in the thread, does that mean they are producing another one?


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Perhaps, he getting a pre-owned one, and the wrong verb was used. Lost in translation yes


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    apias:
    GR:

    Walter R is getting a Boxster Spyder though

    That was an interesting comment that he was "ordering" one. (I believe that was the word he used.) As someone, I think, pointed out earlier in the thread, does that mean they are producing another one?

    Lost in translation, that is all.

    There is not a single spy picture of a 981 Spyder nor any rumors. Only the GTS leak. Wally "ordered" a used 987 Spyder.


    --

    2014 981 Boxster S | Riviera Blue | PDK | Sport Suspension (-20mm) | PCCB | PTV | PSE
    2010 997.2 C2S | Carrara White | Manual | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE | OZ Superforgiata
    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White

    Previous
    2008 997.1 C4S | Guards Red | Manual | PSE | Bilstein PSS10 | H&R Roll Bars | Dension 500
    2007 997.1 Turbo | Meteor Gray | Manual | Bilstein PSS10 | Cargraphic Stage 2 | Dension 500
    2005 987.1 Boxster S | Arctic Silver | Manual | OZ Ultraleggera | H&R Cup Suspension | H&R Roll Bars | Sachs Racing Clutch | Recaro Shells
    2005 997.1 C2S | Atlas Gray | Manual | PSE | Sport Suspension (-20mm)


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Does anyone has driven both (918 and P1) and has firsthand opinion about these two cars? It will be interesting to know how they compare…  yes


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Finally have a firm production time frame. February production and should be in my possession April. All 918s will be model year 2015 cars. I guess my car will be one of the initial batches then.

     

     


    --

     


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Good news Whoopsy!  My friend, who ordered very early, heard recently that there was a production delay and his car will arrive in May.  


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Aren't all Boxster Spyder's?

    Whoopsy, wonderful news! Where do you plan to drive the car? Will you track it? If there is one reason why I left Ferrari is because the car wasn't useable on a public street. To get the full experience you needed to track it and I was not about to do that.

    That is why I decided to get the GT3. I wanted a car that was somewhat raw, reliable, tracked worthy and reasonably priced. 


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    My dealer told me my order is now in PAG hands, so I am guessing the order is locked in and lined up for production now. Debated for a long time to go with dark blue metallic but ended up still going with Basalt Black.

    Locally, there is a new track project Area 27 it is called, Jacques Villeneuve is their spokesman, about 4hrs away through the mountains, they are suppose to start construction this year, I put my name down as someone interested in joining. So yeah I do plan on tracking it and my other cars.

    I will also join some locals who goes to the Seattle track or the Portland track and some other road rallies.

    The 918 differs from every other super car is that it's every day usable, can't hold much shopping but Porsche engineered it to be a 'daily driver' if one can call it that. AWD for foul weather, electric mode for quiet uncover travel, etc.

    Porsche built 50 prototypes just to validate and test everything, Ferrari and McLaren together maybe have 10 or less, but at least McLaren pretty much validated everything but the hybrid system on the P1 with the 12C. But Porsche has the extra test miles, so I believe it should be the most reliable one too.  

    While I was at the dealer today talking about my order, I was also there to picked up a couple of the new Porsche Office Chairs that I ordered after I came back from the LA Show. Man those thing are sweet. 


    --

     


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    While I was at the dealer today talking about my order, I was also there to picked up a couple of the new Porsche Office Chairs that I ordered after I came back from the LA Show. Man those thing are sweet. 

    And you're not going to show us pictures ?! that's just mean. 

    Great news about the delivery date, not the uneasy feeling of the wait begins. 


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Whoopsy:

    While I was at the dealer today talking about my order, I was also there to picked up a couple of the new Porsche Office Chairs that I ordered after I came back from the LA Show. Man those thing are sweet. 

    Smiley Interesting that you mention it. I wanted to order one for my office but my financial advisor told me I'm nuts and the tax office over here would have issues with that. So I guess I need to continue to sit in an ordinary chair, not in a Porsche chair. Smiley Smiley I could of course order one without caring about tax deduction but with two kids and a wife with a shoe fetish (are there actually any women out there without one? Smiley), it ain't going to happen.

    The chair is beautiful, enjoy and post photos. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S, Porsche Boxster S (981), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Steve Sutcliffe first drive of the McLaren P1 and some new Ring rumors without any proof... smiley

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/mclaren/p1/first-drives/mclaren-p1-first-drive-review

    The story becomes even more funny with this "comparison":

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/mclaren-p1/mclaren-p1-versus-porsche-918-spyder-which-best

    How can Steve make such statements as he has driven P1 at full speed and 918 behind the 911 turbo in Valencia... yes


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    The more I read these 2 articles, especially the comparison, the more I believe that Mclaren pays journos for reviews... Maybe I am wrong, but second article is disasterous in its unprofessionalism... 


    --

    sportcars-history.com


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    And this 5G statement in the corners, is just mockery with the audience! They want us to believe, that 1,5 tons are faster than open wheel F1 car... smiley


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Boyko23:

    And this 5G statement in the corners, is just mockery with the audience! They want us to believe, that 1,5 tons are faster than open wheel F1 car... smiley

    I haven't driven these two cars but the 5G statement is a farce or a typo. Maybe he meant 1.5 G which for a road car is impressive.

    In my 2013 GT3 R racecar, the MOTEC registers 2G in lateral forces, on slicks of course. And it's pretty much the maximum you can get in a GT racecar, 991 RSR is similar.

    In a LMP1, you can get up to 4G maybe 5 in corners Blanchimont or the Porsche curves but I doubt it.

    In a Road car? Hahaha, joke of the year.

    To be honest, Sutcliffe's articles are generally very bad quality.

     


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    The best halo car is one that loses money for the parent company I reckon. That means the company is really making the best car there is, as oppose to making the most money they can.

    The P1 is making a shit load of money for McLaren, estimated cost of the P1 ranged from 300k to around 600k. The number 'could' be even lower than 300k as most of the development cost can be amortized with the 12C and the P13 as the carbon tub technology, the basic chassis are shared and so is the engine. 

    if we apply Porsche's profit margin per car, ~18% to a 12C, that means a 12C cost around 240k to make. But that figure includes the start up cost of developing the carbon tub, the engine, gearbox, trick suspension, etc. All those are adapted and refined for the P1 so the cost per car using those technology are lower. The most unique and 'expensive' item on the P1 is the trick aero bodywork which eats up a ton of expensive wind tunnel time, but since McLaren already have a wind tunnel in-house for the F1 program but are restricted by FIA on the amount of wind tunnel testing they can use for the F1 program, the wind tunnel is just sitting idle most of the time, so those 'expensive' wind tunnel time are free. 

    Figuring the tacked on hybrid system on the P1 cost a few million in development and material cost, say a nice round 10 mil. That's about 27k per car. Most of the software programming are done by their existing employees so no real additional costs.

    Applying some reasonable guesses puts the cost of each P1 at around 300k. The 600k number was from people who disregard the common stuff between the 12C and P1 and start from scratch.

    There are people who thinks the P1 is even cheaper to make. McLaren spent around 250mil to develop the 12C. McLaren sold around 3500+ 12C to date, that's more than enough to cover the 250mil development cost. With the P1 based on the 12C, all the extras are mostly incremental cost, at most McLaren spent around 50mil developing the P1.

    If one based the selling price of each P1 at it's cheapest location, 1.3mil in the USA, that means McLaren is making close to a mil a car. 

    Is McLaren really putting out the best car they can make or are they putting out the best money grab there is?


    --

     


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    @Futch: bit off topic but when is your LaFerrari due?


    --

     


    Re: 918 latest news Thread Closed

    Futch:
    In a Road car? Hahaha, joke of the year.

    To be honest, Sutcliffe's articles are generally very bad quality.

     

    Definitely "joke of the year", because this statement was given by McLaren themselves some time ago... Smiley


     
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