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    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    SciFrog:

    Quite possibly so, yet Musk will have personally revolutionized the entire auto industry. Good enough kiss

    Elon Musk seems to be a visionary and for that, I really like and respect him. I just hope that his innovation drive doesn't cloud his judgement(s). If he is clever, he listens to the people around him from time to time.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:

    Smart is not a car, it is a disease. Smiley

    Does that make the Prius the bubonic plague ? Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    MKSGR:
    Ferdie:

    Have you driven a Smart EV? That rocks... indecision

    It‘s great to roam around cities like Berlin in it though...

    A friend mentioned that the range is only 80km under real life conditions?

    It’s a long time that I used it but I seem to recall that it had a range of around 100Not really much but to be honest driving one day through Berlin I hardly used more than 50, 60 km. It was much more attractive than the gasoline version to me yet equally great in finding parking spots in Mitte. Wouldn’t be the car I take out on a weekend for a drive to the lakes anyhow...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    crayphile:
    RC:

    Smart is not a car, it is a disease. Smiley

    Does that make the Prius the bubonic plagueSmiley

    Very close to it... Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    RC:
    Ferdie:

    Have you driven a Smart EV? That rocks... indecision

    It‘s great to roam around cities like Berlin in it though...

    Smart is not a car, it is a disease. Smiley

    Agree to disagree!

    The Smart is bad, but it is the best car for the city. On business trips I use them quiet frequently as car-2-go and they are really practical. And - the latest generation is much better than the old one


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Lars997:
    RC:
    Ferdie:

    Have you driven a Smart EV? That rocks... indecision

    It‘s great to roam around cities like Berlin in it though...

    Smart is not a car, it is a disease. Smiley

    Agree to disagree!

    The Smart is bad, but it is the best car for the city. On business trips I use them quiet frequently as car-2-go and they are really practical. And - the latest generation is much better than the old one

    I use the Mini JCW for the city. (Almost) perfect. It would be perfect with AWD (winters and due to serious traction issues). Had a (new) Smart for a couple of hours (my Mercedes sales guy insisted because he wanted me to get one for my business) and I cannot even describe how much I hated this car. Had the old Smart as a business delivery car for three years, was so happy when I returned it to the lease company. Never again, sorry. I prefer to ride my bike in the city rather than to drive a Smart. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Porsche Mission E testing at the Nurburgring...

    Video link: http://youtu.be/UhpjpfYaw90


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Porsche Well Prepared For Aggressive EV Push





    Porsche believes that it will be able to maintain its current profit levels and lead the industry when it comes to e-mobility.

    During an interview with Automotive News, Porsche chief financial officer Lutz Meschke said that the German carmaker will cut costs and invest over 3 billion euros ($3.5 billion) into electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids.

    “To protect your margin, you have to look at substantial fixed cost cuts, but there's only so much potential since the biggest chunks are personnel and development. As sales shift toward EVs, a temporary drop in profitability in the midterm may be expected.”

    When quizzed about the importance of maintaining its 15 per cent profit margin in the EV age, Meschke said it is crucial for the company to have a specific target to chase.

    “It’s a strategic target. We need to structure the company so that it is in position to sustainably achieve that…

    “It’s better for Porsche to work with a fixed margin target. We attach incentives for the average worker to it, and there's even a pension component. It's really an internal steering instrument. That's why everyone in the company from the manager to the assembly line worker knows the goal is 15 percent. If we work with a range, that effect is diluted,” he said.

    Porsche’s first all-electric production vehicle will be the eagerly-awaited Mission E. Revealed as a concept over two years ago, the car will directly rival the Tesla Model S and offer blistering performance and handling. Thanks to a pair of electric motors, it will deliver over 600 hp and be capable of reaching 124 mph (200 km/h) in 12 seconds. A range of 330 miles (531 km) is also being targeted.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Didn't someone say something about future margins and Porsche? indecision​​​​


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    noone1:

    Didn't someone say something about future margins and Porsche? indecision​​​​

    Lots of talk Smiley  but Porsche will start with an aggressive price level to test the markets. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    "Electric Porsche Mission E readies for 2020 launch" (Autocar)

    (20 November 2017)

    Porsche has conducted the first successful tests of full prototype versions of its new four-door electric sports-car-cum-saloon, which is due in production by the end of the decade.

    The car, codenamed J1, was closely previewed as the Porsche Mission E concept at the 2015 Frankfurt motor show. It will be Porsche’s first bespoke electric car and launched as a fifth model line.

    Although many other car makers are choosing SUVs as their first electric cars for packaging reasons, Porsche has opted for a more low-slung model to showcase that its electric car technology is as much about performance as it is about reducing emissions.

    Porsche R&D boss Michael Steiner confirmed that design work on the model is now complete and very close to the well-received Mission E concept. Development mules have completed testing and Porsche has begun tests of full-body prototype versions of the production car.

    The finished product will be revealed in 2019, with first deliveries in 2020, and priced at approximately £100,000. That pitches the car in between the Panamera 4 E-Hybrid (£81,141) and Panamera Turbo S E-Hybrid (£137,140).

    The Mission E has yet to be given an official name for production but it will not take the name of the concept car, according to Porsche boss Oliver Blume. It is pitched as halfway between a 911 and a Panamera in concept. Indeed, Porsche insiders refer to it as a “four-door sports car”, with Porsche keen to use electric technology on a completely new type of model to bring the brand to more customers.

    Steiner said the brief is “a really sporty sports car, a four-seater that’s low on the road, with a low centre of gravity. A car that’s typically Porsche but electric.”

    The Mission E is the first step towards Porsche electrifying its entire range as part of a Volkswagen Group target of 2030 to have an electrified version of every model offered.

    Porsche has no plans to create an electric version of the 911 because the only way to store enough batteries for a viable range would be in the floor. That would mean having to raise the vehicle, rendering it no longer a sports car in the firm’s eyes.

    However, the next-generation 911, targeted for launch in 2018, is being readied with the availability of plug-in hybrid technology. But, although it is compatible with plug-in hybrid tech, Porsche has yet to decide when to offer a plug-in hybrid 911 to market, if at all. The Mission E’s launch is likely to come first.

    Steiner said the more an electric car has to perform as a sports car, the more weight comes into the equation. “The Mission E is the sweet spot of sports car performance that size-wise provides enough space for significant battery packages,” he said.

    The J1’s architecture is a bespoke Porsche development and differs from other electric platforms being engineered within the VW Group. Audi is developing an architecture called C-BEV, to be used first on its e-tron SUV next year. The J1 has its batteries much lower in the floor, with the C-BEV better suited to higher-riding SUVs. The two architectures use common lithium ion battery technology, though.

    The J1 architecture is also set to underpin Bentley’s first electric model at the turn of the decade, using the Speed 6e concept as inspiration in style, if not in size. The Speed 6e is a shorter, two-door sports car.

    As a four-door and a pure, dedicated electric car with no requirements for a combustion-engine version, the Mission E doesn’t suffer any of the packaging problems that Porsche would get from converting an existing model to be purely electric powered. The concept car used two electric motors – one on each axle – to produce a combined 600bhp and 663lb ft, drawing their power from lithium ion batteries mounted in the floor. The concept car was all-wheel drive, with the front wheels driven mainly to aid the acceleration, and the handling remaining rear biased, and using torque vectoring to control individual wheels. 

    The 0-62mph time was quoted at 3.5sec and 0-124mph at less than 12.0sec, despite the concept’s kerb weight of more than 2000kg. Porsche’s electric tech is being developed in-house due to the specific need for an electric Porsche to focus on performance above all else.

    Its Zuffenhausen engineering centre is being expanded to support the new model and Porsche plans to sell around 20,000 Mission Es a year when production is ramped up.

    The firm will offer the Mission E with a range of power outputs and chassis set-ups. “We will offer different levels of performance,” said Blume. “There will be sporty, high- performance versions and a lower-powered one.”

    Q&A with Porsche boss Oliver Blume

    Porsche plans to equip it with state-of-the-art electronics that permit over- the-air updates to key systems such as the driveline and autonomous driving functions. This means power outputs could be increased remotely.

    The car will also be fitted with an 800V rapid-charging system, which will recharge 80% of the battery capacity in just 15min. Porsche is understood to be working with Hitachi on the technology and is already trialling it with the fitment of two 800V DC fast-chargers at recently opened offices in Berlin.

    Porsche will not look to give the Mission E an overly excessive range because the recharging time is so favourable. So long as the Mission E hits its 500km (310 miles) target, Steiner said, that will be sufficient.

    Adding more range means more battery packs, which increases the weight. Steiner said a slight loss in range would be compensated by faster charging times and Porsche is working with customers to decide exactly what the optimum range should be.

    “For people who don’t need a big daily driving range but do need an occasional longer range, how much is the cost of sacrificing some range for charging time?” said Steiner.

    Further ahead, Porsche is investigating the use of solid-state batteries, which are lighter and more compact than lithium ion cells, as a possible future technology for an all-electric sports car, but production versions are several years away. It has tested the tech in a prototype Boxster, which handled well, but the weight impacted its lap time. On the car’s styling, Porsche design boss Michael Mauer has described the production Mission E as “a beautiful car”.

    Speaking more generally about electric cars, he said they gave designers “lots of possibilities”. He added: “So far, electric components are still pretty big. You get rid of the metal block of the engine but have to package batteries. Replace one with another. In the end, there will be more freedom for designers as the huge metal block disappears and batteries get smaller.”

    Porsche’s next electric car after the Mission E is set to be an SUV, a car Steiner said will have “benefits for Porsche as there’s still a trend for SUVs”.

    He added: “We made a clear strategy on electric cars to start with cars very close to the core of the brand. We will have a really sporty car between 911 and Panamera. It’s very well known that the SUV segment is growing faster but we didn’t want a ‘me too’ concept but a true Porsche concept. We’re convinced it [Mission E] will make its way in the market.”

    Autocar Link: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/electric-porsche-mission-e-readies-2020-launch

    Smiley Smiley Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Starting price is scary to be honest. angry


    --

    GT Lover

    Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 on order

    991 GT3 2014(sold)

    CAYENNE GTS 2014


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    2020 and a 100K GBP base price. Yikes.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    That’s a base model without any options... $120k when you have added the basics. And even then, that’s just wishful thinking because it is cheaper than an equivalent Panamera and 911 so it will actually be even higher...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    It a Porsche, what did you guys expect. Knowing the prices of the Panamera, 911, and  Cayenne, I would say it fits perfectly inline. Its more expensive than the base Tesla and less than the P100D.


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    And years away still. Model S will be version 2.0 by then...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    noone1:

    And years away still. Model S will be version 2.0 by then...

    Who cares what version it is... it could be version 20000.0 its still a Tesla and not a Porsche for all that matters. 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    So I am on the waitlist for a model 3, but I’m not so sure if I will be able to get it before the mission e is released.

    Current delivery estimate is end of 2018, it all depends on when they could go into full production capacity. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Car magazine article by Georg Kacher reports that the Porsche Mission E will be launched in September 2019 with a base model price estimated at £68k positioned between the Cayenne and Panamera...

    ...they even let him drive it! Smiley


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Full article please!


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    AP911:

    So I am on the waitlist for a model 3, but I’m not so sure if I will be able to get it before the mission e is released.

    Current delivery estimate is end of 2018, it all depends on when they could go into full production capacity. 

     

    What's your priority? They are making 250 a quarter. Just do the math and you will sort fo know when you will get yours.

    I was beyond 400,000, so I cancelled. Cause I think my great grand son won't need the Model 3 anymore.


    --

     

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

     A successful automobile company is much more than just selling cars. It's about reliable parts and service, dependable suppliers, dealership proximity, accurate trade-in values, a vibrant used car market and volume sufficient to pay off investors and invest in research and technology. Ask yourself, does Tesla have that structure now, or in the foreseeable future?


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Wonderbar:

     A successful automobile company is much more than just selling cars. It's about reliable parts and service, dependable suppliers, dealership proximity, accurate trade-in values, a vibrant used car market and volume sufficient to pay off investors and invest in research and technology. Ask yourself, does Tesla have that structure now, or in the foreseeable future?

    The answer to your questions is no.  Do a search for the lack of after-sales service.  


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    I have 2 Tesla’s. There support is as good as Bmw or porsche from my experience. And all my software updates are over the air. Oh and I get free charging!


    --

     

    Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2020 Porsche Mission E on order

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Whoopsy:
    AP911:

    So I am on the waitlist for a model 3, but I’m not so sure if I will be able to get it before the mission e is released.

    Current delivery estimate is end of 2018, it all depends on when they could go into full production capacity. 

     

    What's your priority? They are making 250 a quarter. Just do the math and you will sort fo know when you will get yours.

    I was beyond 400,000, so I cancelled. Cause I think my great grand son won't need the Model 3 anymore.

    I just want a car that drives itself for my long commute. I ordered it for the UAE and deliveries are supposed to start on the second half of 2018. Hopefully it does drive itself on the highway at least by the time I get it. If they are delayed, the most advanced car in terms of autonomous driving would be my alternative. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    EnglishManInNY:

    I have 2 Tesla’s. There support is as good as Bmw or porsche from my experience. And all my software updates are over the air. Oh and I get free charging!


    --

     

    Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2020 Porsche Mission E on order

     

    That same free charging that isn’t included in COGS, overinflating the Gross Margin?   Glad to hear you have the above average Tesla service experience. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    If Porsche is making this right they outrun Tesla with an ease. 

    But - it needs more than a great label and electric capabilities. The Tesla wins with the IT and user friendly front end. That screen and its intuitive usability is just mind changing. Tesla is very good with all its gadgets. And I like that they questioned all process around the car (i.e. - you dont need to switch the car on, just go inside put a gear in and there we go). I hope Porsche is going bold with that, too. But I fear they will use there two screen concept we know from the Panamera and Cayenne - nice step ahead but not far enough. 

    Last not least - the autonomous driving capabilities should be on eye level of the Tesla. Until now there is no German manufacturer even close to. Even the over-hyped A8 can not even beat the Volvo XC90 which was introduced 2 years back. Germany has to step up the autonomous driving game, otherwise there are out. 


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    CGX car nut:
    Wonderbar:

     A successful automobile company is much more than just selling cars. It's about reliable parts and service, dependable suppliers, dealership proximity, accurate trade-in values, a vibrant used car market and volume sufficient to pay off investors and invest in research and technology. Ask yourself, does Tesla have that structure now, or in the foreseeable future?

    The answer to your questions is no.  Do a search for the lack of after-sales service.  

    Tesla is also changing the whole game for after sales service in the USA. Seeing how bad every dealer I have ever dealt with has been, they honestly can only do better (well the AM/McLaren dealer is actually quite nice).

    Another example: Ferrari has had my car for service since August. After 15 phone calls and messages they are finally sending it back along with an extra $1000 bill for a problem with the headliner which must have happened while the car was stored outside for some time...


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    Lars997:

    If Porsche is making this right they outrun Tesla with an ease. 

    But - it needs more than a great label and electric capabilities. The Tesla wins with the IT and user friendly front end. That screen and its intuitive usability is just mind changing. Tesla is very good with all its gadgets. And I like that they questioned all process around the car (i.e. - you dont need to switch the car on, just go inside put a gear in and there we go). I hope Porsche is going bold with that, too. But I fear they will use there two screen concept we know from the Panamera and Cayenne - nice step ahead but not far enough. 

    Last not least - the autonomous driving capabilities should be on eye level of the Tesla. Until now there is no German manufacturer even close to. Even the over-hyped A8 can not even beat the Volvo XC90 which was introduced 2 years back. Germany has to step up the autonomous driving game, otherwise there are out. 

    If I were to buy the mission e as my daily driver, I want 3 things:

    300 miles range

    Semi-autonomous capabilities just for the highways and not the ones that asks you to hold the steering after one minute or so

    Price of $100k (even if I had to pick only the above 2 options and nothing else).

     


    Re: Porsche Mission E...the future of Porsche?

    It's gotta have the autonomous highway driving at a bare minimum. That is such an awesome feature.


     
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