Crown

Board: Other Sports Cars Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread


    The new C6 and Z06

    The numbers on these cars are incredible. Price, performance, weight and racing heritage. Both Road and Track and Motor Trend have terrific articles regarding how good these cars are.

    For an example in R&T, the C6 was voted the Best Car of 2005 besting the Ford GT, the 997S and others. Here is the final paragraph of what R&T had to say:

    "There's no question that the Corvette is a world-class performance sports car. Sure, there are other sport cars in the world that MAY offer better track numbers, yet they typically cost tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands more. At a starting MSRP of $43,445, it is the best sports car for the money. Period."

    The Z06 weighing 3150 pds with 500 hp will do 0-60 in 3.7 sec. reach a 100 in less than 7 sec and do a 1/4 mile in the mid 11's. This car will price out at around $75,000 if that. Many feel it will be in the mid 60's.

    My question is aside from mass production (no differnt than Porsche) why do we snub at our nose at these car? I have not driven one lately but they certainly have numbers to back them up.

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    yeah, i heard the 75k figure also, thats gonna kill it.

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    Quote:
    nberry said:My question is aside from mass production (no differnt than Porsche) why do we snub at our nose at these car?


    Serious lack of refinement, from what i've read, including poor build quality, impossibly hard suspensions, plastic bodyparts, leafsprings , etc..
    And who's we? I see people around here welcoming the Z06

    Quote:
    the C6 was voted the Best Car of 2005 besting the Ford GT, the 997S and others


    Only because it's cheap.

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    I cant remember where I heard it but the corvettes are terrible quality compared to most 75K+ euro cars. Nothing like a loud squeaky sun roof

    I would much prefer a kit car over a vette (better quality

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    Quote:
    Ryan in SD said:
    I cant remember where I heard it but the corvettes are terrible quality compared to most 75K+ euro cars. Nothing like a loud squeaky sun roof

    I would much prefer a kit car over a vette (better quality



    watch it ryan, the american cars are rising to the top of JD Powers and other reliability and quality measuring sticks at the same time the germans (like porsche largely because of their cayenne! - and likely 8 model years of RMS issues) are plummeting.

    fwiw though, these Z06 #s (very similar to the F430s) are a crock of crap. i'm just not buying that a vastly superior V10 in the CGT and V12 in the Enzo with the same weight and much better and more expensive technology and materials are on par with the Z06 and the F430. i think most of us know better. ferrari's test was a joke (downhill and "calculated") and the Z06s haven't even been independently tested. interestingly enough, at the ferrari test track with ferrari test drivers, the 430 is like 3 seconds slower than the enzo and only on par with the stradale.

    all that said, the Z06 is a rip roaring bargain that it's even compared to such cars while being a tiny fraction of the cost.

    fwiw, GM is the largest automobile advertiser in C&D and R&T and i can't help but wonder sometimes if that has any effect on the numbers and conclusions contained in them.

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    Quote:
    Ryan in SD said:
    I cant remember where I heard it but the corvettes are terrible quality compared to most 75K+ euro cars. Nothing like a loud squeaky sun roof

    I would much prefer a kit car over a vette (better quality



    watch it ryan, the american cars are rising to the top of JD Powers and other reliability and quality measuring sticks at the same time the germans (like porsche largely because of their cayenne! - and likely 8 model years of RMS issues) are plummeting.

    fwiw though, these Z06 #s (very similar to the F430s) are a crock of crap. i'm just not buying that a vastly superior V10 in the CGT and V12 in the Enzo with the same weight and much better and more expensive technology and materials are on par with the Z06 and the F430. i think most of us know better. ferrari's test was a joke (downhill and "calculated") and the Z06s haven't even been independently tested. interestingly enough, at the ferrari test track with ferrari test drivers, the 430 is like 3 seconds slower than the enzo and only on par with the stradale.

    all that said, the Z06 is a rip roaring bargain that it's even compared to such cars while being a tiny fraction of the cost.

    fwiw, GM is the largest automobile advertiser in C&D and R&T and i can't help but wonder sometimes if that has any effect on the numbers and conclusions contained in them.



    I understand the reliability part but I have never heard anyone praise the feel and build quality of a Vette...I dont think I ever will.

    Can you imagine someone saying "I've never felt a more positive feeling car than this Corvette."? That just doesnt sound possible.

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    don't care what anyone says...the vette is a bargain and a great car. To all the ppl in doubt...go ahead and make fun of the C6 and new ZO6, but when you pull up to a traffic-light and it beats the cr*p out of ur finely crafted italian/german/whatever foreign car I wonder who will be laughing?!?!

    PS...i luv Porsches, i think they're the best cars in the world. But i felt that i had to stand up for the domestics that always get a bad wrap. (I'm a big fan of muscle, maybe that's why I drive my friends '72 Chevelle regularly )

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    Im not trying to knock the Corvette, Im just saying that I prefer quality well built cars. Is there somthing wrong with that?

    I know that the new Vettes are very fast, thats no secret. It seems though that the 75K+ is nothing but performance oriented and lacking other areas of a cars enjoyment.

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    hey ryan ...don't take it personal! (my comment wasn't aimed at anyone in particular)

    i see ur point, thats why I'm a member of a porsche forum (or mainly anyway) rather then a corvette one

    just saying that yes they focus on performance...and they get plenty of it for a good price. Yep u don't get the luxury or comfort as the Europeans but then again some people don't care. If your lookin for a car that goes fast..and thats it...its a good buy. Sometimes people forget that and then go around saying that all American cars suck. And that's what gets me mad.

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    Quote:
    brunner said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:My question is aside from mass production (no differnt than Porsche) why do we snub at our nose at these car?


    Serious lack of refinement, from what i've read, including poor build quality, impossibly hard suspensions, plastic bodyparts, leafsprings , etc..
    And who's we? I see people around here welcoming the Z06

    Quote:
    the C6 was voted the Best Car of 2005 besting the Ford GT, the 997S and others


    Only because it's cheap.



    Refinement is a relative term. What keeps me from buying a Corvette is nothing more than perception. In the recent past it has had a checkered history regarding build quality. However lately, in reading reviews on the car, they have made tremendous strides in quality inprovement. If I was inclined to track a car regularly this (Z06) would be a serious contender.

    Do you realize with the strength of the Euro, Europeans can be buying this performance leader for substantially less money compared to any European build car.

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    Quote:
    Porsche Addict said:
    hey ryan ...don't take it personal! (my comment wasn't aimed at anyone in particular)



    Ok understood

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    yeah, i heard the 75k figure also, thats gonna kill it.



    The price is an interesting point because I've read on corvette forums about current z06 owners worrying about the price tag. It seems that if they understand the differences between the C5 z06 and the C6 z06 then they'd see that the C6 is a better deal at 75k than the c5 was at 50. A real enthusiast would probably find a way to swing the extra 25k if the car was his or her dream. If they disagree about the worth, then they probably don't care about the lightweight chassis, brakes wheels etc and should just get a regular C6 and play with motor mods for a lot less money.

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    Quote:
    C6 is a better deal at 75k than the c5 was at 50.


    So the Z06 went through a 50% price increase? Wow.

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    fwiw, GM is the largest automobile advertiser in C&D and R&T and i can't help but wonder sometimes if that has any effect on the numbers and conclusions contained in them.



    Ben,

    I have known a good many of the editors/test-drivers at both magazines. Some for as long as twenty-five years. I can honestly say that they all try to get the "best" numbers possible for every car they test. It's a point of competitive pride between magazines.

    They also have an informal system of peer review that prevents long-term bias from taking hold. Sure, some individual writer may have a distaste or fetish for some particualr brand or name plate. But, the other writers find ways to balance this out, if not in the same story, at least over time.

    Car magazines do develop a personality or group-think over a period of years that becomes obvious to the reader. That's what causes individuals to be drawn to or repelled from certain journals -- agreement (or not) with the underlying assumptions of "what makes for the best car?"

    Car and Driver has a very performance-oriented mind set. Most of the old-timers there are graduates of various engineering schools (Iowa, MIT, etc.) with time served in Detroit auto industry engineering jobs before they became journalists. They value hard numbers as a way of life, and I think their writing over the years has that obvious flavor.

    The advertising-driven publishers' expediency that might try to corrupt good reporting is often headed-off at the pass. David E. Davis once instructed Car and Driver's road testers to include (over their objections) a Mercedes 190 in a test of best-handling "imported" cars where I had the good fortune to hang out as it was under way. I have a video of the test driver calling the 190 a "teutonic turd" after struggling to get it around the various timed test courses in the most complimentary fashion. All the track photos and mountain-road beauty shots were taken with the 190 in the mix. After the test was wrapped up, the project editor called Davis with the results.

    After hearing how out-classed the 190 was in the midst of the competition (Porsche, Ferrari, Honda, Lotus, Audi), Davis decided to spare Mercedes the embarassment. The photos were tweaked by the art department to remove the 190 and the story that ran in the magazine never mentioned Mercedes in any way.

    Is that bias? Or, is it just good manners?

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    the 430 is like 3 seconds slower than the enzo and only on par with the stradale.





    You're forgetting the difference in tires again, Ben. On equal rubber I would be amazed if the 430 didn't run right with the CS at Fiorano.

    Gary

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    Quote:
    tdf360 said:
    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    the 430 is like 3 seconds slower than the enzo and only on par with the stradale.





    You're forgetting the difference in tires again, Ben. On equal rubber I would be amazed if the 430 didn't run right with the CS at Fiorano.

    Gary



    thanks for the clarification mike.

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    Quote:
    tdf360 said:
    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    the 430 is like 3 seconds slower than the enzo and only on par with the stradale.





    You're forgetting the difference in tires again, Ben. On equal rubber I would be amazed if the 430 didn't run right with the CS at Fiorano.

    Gary



    thanks for the clarification mike.



    i keep hearing about these tires (the same situation on the RS we deemed to be invalid since it doesn't come stock with them and is therefore modified with them - the topic often comes up with the M3 CSL as well). however, even if i grant your 1 sec diff on that particular track, the diff between a modena and stradale is still 66% that of the diff between the 430 and enzo which i think we both have to agree is quite meaningful! we're going to have to agree to disagree because you're never going to convince me the modena can run with the CS on the same track with the same driver on the same day - even more so with "stock" tires.

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    Not a chance a Modena can keep up with a CS, especially at the track, but the Stradale's R-compound tires expand that difference even further.

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    Quote:
    ben, lj said:
    you're never going to convince me the modena can run with the CS on the same track with the same driver on the same day - even more so with "stock" tires.



    If you'll re-read my post I said for sure the CS is faster than the Modena, just not 3 sec at Fiorano with equal rubber. I would buy a 1 sec difference. I also believe the 430 would run right with the CS given equal tires. If I had to pick a winner between the two I'd say the 430. And don't misunderstand, I LOVE the CS, just trying to make a rational adjustment for the tires.

    Gary

    Re: The new C6 and Z06

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Not a chance a Modena can keep up with a CS, especially at the track, but the Stradale's R-compound tires expand that difference even further.



    Well, as I said, I think the CS would be faster, on equal tires maybe a second at Fiorano.

    Gary

     
    Edit

    Forum

    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA 2/14/19 1:26 AM
    watt
    330920 2045
    Porsche Sticky The moment I've been waiting for... 2/16/19 2:13 AM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    217815 1114
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 991.2 GT3 RS (2018) 2/15/19 11:05 AM
    RCA
    145797 2579
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: The new Porsche 992 – a design icon and high-tech sports car 2/17/19 6:10 PM
    SportCarGroup
    60478 798
    Porsche Sticky Paint protection film 2/16/19 9:52 AM
    AP911
    16157 148
    Porsche Sticky Child seats in a 991 11/29/18 3:43 PM
    RCA
    14651 35
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: 992 Carrera Cabriolet 2/16/19 3:33 PM
    the-missile
    9942 126
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 2/16/19 10:23 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    3026 59
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S 1/4/19 7:02 PM
    Topspeed
    486813 4255
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 GT3 (2017) 1/29/19 10:07 PM
    nberry
    421919 5220
    Porsche 992 (Next 911 generation 2019/2020) Thread Closed 11/29/18 11:38 AM
    RCA
    317291 3195
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 R (2016) 12/31/18 2:19 AM
    DJM48
    286550 2598
    Porsche Cayman GT4 2/14/19 7:29 PM
    WhoopsyM
    280350 2759
    Porsche OFFICIAL: 911 GT2 RS (2017) 1/30/19 3:10 AM
    ha
    219062 2777
    Ferrari 488 GTB/GTS 1/17/19 8:13 PM
    GoHardGT3RS
    195535 1789
    McLaren McLaren on a winning streak 2/17/19 5:58 PM
    the-missile
    191306 3354
    Others Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016 model) - Review (updated Feb 13th 2017) 12/17/18 12:42 PM
    RCA
    157664 2491
    Porsche Boxster Spyder (981) 8/31/18 10:25 AM
    WAY
    144587 757
    Ferrari Ferrari F12 Berlinetta / 599 GTO Successor 5/22/18 9:16 PM
    RCA
    112986 789
    Others VW caught cheating emissions tests 5/3/18 7:52 PM
    CGX car nut
    107899 871
    Porsche Porsche Mission E - the future of Porsche? 2/17/19 9:17 AM
    Paulo_Rangel_Melo
    98788 1367
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 12/7/18 10:15 PM
    Boxster Coupe GTS
    68809 673
    Others Tesla Roadster 2/13/19 8:40 AM
    RCA
    57191 1723
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Carrera GTS models 11/3/18 11:09 AM
    bluelines
    48387 477
    Others Tesla Model X Thread Closed 2/23/18 3:41 PM
    RCA
    43562 1122
    AMG AMG GT R 11/30/18 4:10 PM
    RCA
    43118 605
    Lambo Aventador and SV 11/19/18 8:31 AM
    RCA
    40836 472
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New 991.2 Turbo S Exclusive Series (2017) 12/4/18 3:17 PM
    BiTurbo
    40599 650
    AMG Mercedes E63 S AMG (2018) - Short Review (updated on a regular basis) 2/14/19 1:44 PM
    RCA
    40222 387
    Porsche OFFICIAL: New Porsche Carrera T 12/13/18 2:27 PM
    RCA
    39184 804
    269 items found, displaying 1 to 30.