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    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    No sunroof!

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    SciFrog:
    No sunroof!
    sunroof will only come as standard for the US spec Smiley

            


    --
    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    reginos:
    ed_moree:
    I think by not having the PDK the Porsche finally admited that those stupid buttons are the worst mistake that they have made, a real sports car like the GT3 can´t be driven with a gearbox that works the other way round. So we have to wait for the market dept. to come with an excuse and after that we, maybe, will get the PDK. Or if the costs are too big to change the working way of the buttons we will see it just in the 998 GT3 (or 991 the name it will have). As about the rest of the car I like it very much. 


    Changing the direction of the buttons or even changing to the more usual interface of paddles, is a matter of software mainly and an afternoon's work for Porsche engineers, if they need to or want to do it. There must be other reasons for the " manual only" GT3.

    However, may I ask you for how long (time and distance) have you been using the PDK interface? And why you haven't adapted to it yet? And what exact problems you have encountered? Please share your experiences with us.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    I don´t have a car with PDK but I have tried the PDK and it is not working! It is totaly the other way around. And I´m not talking about how the gearbox changes the gears, but about when you have to change them. You have to constantly think about... "I push to change up, and pull to change down" so when you want to go fast, specially on a road you don´t know... this is very disconcerning... and frustrating. And I don´t even talk about if you steer at that time and your hands for what so ever reason are not in the "correct" position. 

     Now this thing we talked about it so many times in this forum and maybe you will acuse me about not using it all the time... and so on. And if I was the only one here to say that it is wrong I shut my mouth, but every review drive test, group test... made by who ever you want in this world has the same sentence: fantastic gearbox pitty for the way you have to change the gears. And read the magazine you want to: EVO, CAR magazine, Garage 419, Driver´s Republic, Autocar,.. even magazines dedicated to Posche like: 911&Porsche world or GT Purelyporsche, just to name a few. EVO even name it as the biggest disapointment of the year! And I totally agree. Of course that it will be more difficult to hear from a Porsche PDK owner because not that many will say: "hey I bought the wrong gear selector in my car! how happy am I! I will spent the next 5 years of my life learning how to drive it." And I think any Porsche should be like you get in and drive fast the first time you are in it! Also it is very interesting that at the beginning Porsche said they put the buttons because of Mr. Rohrl´s recomandation. Interesting this guy never come back saying this is true ant showing that this is the best way to change gears, latter Mr. Wiedeking came out saying that they did it because Porsche can´t copy Ferrari and the last one I have heard from another manager is that they did it because there was no space to place the paddles btween the instruments and steering... well....

    Maybe you have a PDK car and I´m sure you don´t like to hear that. And maybe you even get adapted to it but lets face it::it is like you go to the best restaurant and every time you get the table at 5 cm from the toilet room. After a while you may get used to but it does not mean that there is not the better table in the restaurant. And here is where we should all complain to Porsche for not giving us the best table in the best restaurant. Because after all this is all about Porsche: best restaurant with best services! Or at least is how I see the things!


    --
    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    intouch1:
    the 3.8 designation ont the spoiler is really bad.......on a mustang fine......but on a 911 Smiley
    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.
    Actually I like it, it looks a bit ferrariesque. Smiley

            


    --

    Back again!  Smiley


    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    interesting to see how will look the RS version...

    Porsche claimed for 997 gt3 mk1 13,3s from 0-200 km/H...how this one with "only" 20hp more can achieve 12,3s?

    different ratios?

    fuel tank 67l instead  90l mk1 so less weight?


    --
    Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    andrea:

    interesting to see how will look the RS version...

    Porsche claimed for 997 gt3 mk1 13,3s from 0-200 km/H...how this one with "only" 20hp more can achieve 12,3s?

     

    different ratios?

    fuel tank 67l instead  90l mk1 so less weight?


    --
    Dedi La vita è troppo corta per non guidare italiano.....
    More power, more torque (3.8L), better Traction Control, lighter wheels/tires/brakes, better gearing (slightly higher redline), better PASM, better tires?

            


    --
    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs) Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    Okay, I am sold. I need one. Credit-crunch or not Smiley
    --

    05 Boxster S, Arctic Silver, H&R, PSE, FVD Stage 1

    08 Carrera 4S, Guards Red, H&R, PSE


    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    intouch1:
    the 3.8 designation ont the spoiler is really bad.......on a mustang fine......but on a 911 Smiley
    --
    Speed has never killed anyone, suddenly becoming stationary... That's what gets you.

    It's not the first time though...


    --

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    BiTurbo:


    - H6 / 3.8L (3,797Ci) / GT1 Block (Water-Cooled - DOHC - 4-Valves)

    - Power output: 435hp @ 7,600RPM


    Considering the increase in displacement and reported acc. numbers, the claimed output seems to be a rather conservative rating.


    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    Beautiful car. Rear wing still not exactly the best looking, but anything that is different from the Taco wing of 997 GT3 Mark I is an improvement.

    To my eyes, wheels are very nice and more modern looking than the classic but dated-looking older GT3 wheels. Notice how the spokes are carried out all the way to the outer limit of the rim, just like the latest HRE wheels. And the center bolt: hmm, hmm, hmm!

    If rumour is true that the old GT1 engine is still being used: For me,  from consumers' standpoint this is a huge disappoitment, unless RMS problem, **still** reported in US GT3 cars and still without an acceptable fix, has been corrected. This alone makes the car a no go. Sigh.
    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein PSS10 (Review) + Cargraphic Exhaust (Heavenly Race Car Noise Smiley Review)


    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    435 hp

    0-160 at 8,2 sec


    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    ed_moree:
    reginos:
    ed_moree:
    I think by not having the PDK the Porsche finally admited that those stupid buttons are the worst mistake that they have made, a real sports car like the GT3 can´t be driven with a gearbox that works the other way round. So we have to wait for the market dept. to come with an excuse and after that we, maybe, will get the PDK. Or if the costs are too big to change the working way of the buttons we will see it just in the 998 GT3 (or 991 the name it will have). As about the rest of the car I like it very much. 


    Changing the direction of the buttons or even changing to the more usual interface of paddles, is a matter of software mainly and an afternoon's work for Porsche engineers, if they need to or want to do it. There must be other reasons for the " manual only" GT3.

    However, may I ask you for how long (time and distance) have you been using the PDK interface? And why you haven't adapted to it yet? And what exact problems you have encountered? Please share your experiences with us.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    I don´t have a car with PDK but I have tried the PDK and it is not working! It is totaly the other way around. And I´m not talking about how the gearbox changes the gears, but about when you have to change them. You have to constantly think about... "I push to change up, and pull to change down" so when you want to go fast, specially on a road you don´t know... this is very disconcerning... and frustrating. And I don´t even talk about if you steer at that time and your hands for what so ever reason are not in the "correct" position. 

     Now this thing we talked about it so many times in this forum and maybe you will acuse me about not using it all the time... and so on. And if I was the only one here to say that it is wrong I shut my mouth, but every review drive test, group test... made by who ever you want in this world has the same sentence: fantastic gearbox pitty for the way you have to change the gears. And read the magazine you want to: EVO, CAR magazine, Garage 419, Driver´s Republic, Autocar,.. even magazines dedicated to Posche like: 911&Porsche world or GT Purelyporsche, just to name a few. EVO even name it as the biggest disapointment of the year! And I totally agree. Of course that it will be more difficult to hear from a Porsche PDK owner because not that many will say: "hey I bought the wrong gear selector in my car! how happy am I! I will spent the next 5 years of my life learning how to drive it." And I think any Porsche should be like you get in and drive fast the first time you are in it! Also it is very interesting that at the beginning Porsche said they put the buttons because of Mr. Rohrl´s recomandation. Interesting this guy never come back saying this is true ant showing that this is the best way to change gears, latter Mr. Wiedeking came out saying that they did it because Porsche can´t copy Ferrari and the last one I have heard from another manager is that they did it because there was no space to place the paddles btween the instruments and steering... well....

    Maybe you have a PDK car and I´m sure you don´t like to hear that. And maybe you even get adapted to it but lets face it::it is like you go to the best restaurant and every time you get the table at 5 cm from the toilet room. After a while you may get used to but it does not mean that there is not the better table in the restaurant. And here is where we should all complain to Porsche for not giving us the best table in the best restaurant. Because after all this is all about Porsche: best restaurant with best services! Or at least is how I see the things!


    --
    ALL PORSCHE ARE REAL PORSCHE!!!

    I have a PDK car and honestly I've never had a problem with the interface. I like to drive a lot on the mountains with numerous gearchanges and I use the buttons with either hand and the stick interchangeably, very naturally without any confusion. I've never selected the wrong gear due to the "counter-instinctive" direction. And this is the truth! Maybe my brain is "PDK-proof". That's all I can think of after listening to the people who knock the system and make it to be so dysfunctional.

    I don't have to defend the system, like you imply, because obviously I didn't design it, I don't work for Porsche and no one forced me to buy it! So it is not a matter of not liking to hear your critique.

    My objection is that 99% of the people who express opinions here either never tried the system  or did a short test drive at the dealer or with a friend's car. As to the magazines these guys get in and out of cars all day, so understandably a different system might confuse them. A typical owner with his car would never have such problems. 

    I can only rely on my first hand experience and thoroughly recommend the system.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    Not keen on the center lock wheels ...

    What to do with the 5 lug wheels I already have ????

    475 nm (350ft lb) Torque

    My portable impact wrench is no good

    Will need a 4ft+ torque wrench.

     

     


    --
    997 GT3 Guards Red

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    Just there is one problem with PDK IMHO(actually two problems).

    1. NO PDK in 997.2 GT3 for various reasons. BUT, ultimate 911 is manual.

    2. The best PDK usage is in FL Cayman S, NOT in 997.2 Carrera S. That is my opinion based on short drive on FL Cayman S PDK press car and claimed also by several well respected sporscar magazines a la Sport Auto or EVO.

    Back to 997.2 GT3-awsome car indeed!


    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    Trundle_GT3:

    Not keen on the center lock wheels ...

    What to do with the 5 lug wheels I already have ????

    475 nm (350ft lb) Torque

    My portable impact wrench is no good

    Will need a 4ft+ torque wrench.

     

     


    --
    997 GT3 Guards Red

            I think you use a torque multiplier wrench on the center-locks (much smaller than 4ft.) - they had something similar for the Carrera GT,


    --
    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs) Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    Well,i like a lot the rear,really!but i don't like the front and i don't like rims...

     20 hp more than MK1...good,but not much to let think who has a Mk1 to change it..

     no PDK..we know that,and after testdrive a 997 S with it,i think is a right decision on a Gt3!

     So in a few words,a great car without doubt...but if i need a Gt3,maybe is better to wait some weeks  to see the RSSmiley


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    Super Darius:

    maybe is better to wait some weeks  to see the RSSmiley

    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Do you think it's only weeks and not months?

            


    --
    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs) Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    mmm i want to see how performs the cayman clubsport vs this new GT3 because it will include PDK for sure.

    Cayman will be lighter and also it has the best lay out, let's see


    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    reginos:
    Porker:

    What would be the added value of DI on a trackday-spec Porsche? Unlike you I'm excited that Porsche has fitted the GT1-engine, a characterful engine with real racing pedigree.

     Same goes for the choice of a manual gearbox, a GT3 has never been about innovation, it's a car for the purist, people who enjoy feeling connected with their car. What better choice is there than to provide one of the best manual gearboxes available? I dread the day you won't be able to change gears manually, tip-heel under braking, ... That's what a GT3 should be and still is all about, driving, in it's purest sense. No matter how good a PDK with steering-wheel mounted paddles would be, it'll never come close to the best manual for driver involvement and pleasure.

    Good job, I say! Smiley

     


    --

    My point didn't relate to the use of the GT1 engine (which may be the stronger engine for the track) but DI is a component of any modern engine for both CO2 and consumption.

    If Porsche bothered to use DI on a 100% race car, the RS Spyder, why not on a road/track car? Reasons of economy in development I suspect?

    There should also be a choice between a manual box (for people like you) and a very good auto/manual like Ferrari do on their cars with the F1 box. They could develop/adapt a sequential type transmission from their race cars if the PDK didn't fit the GT3 characterisitics. In this way the GT3 would be a more complete proposition.


     


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    I think the answer is simply that the new 9A1 engine is unproven for the moment until its spent time in their race cars and been developed at the extreme levels of motorsport. I believe by 998 this will have been the case as they have now bought themselves a couple years more of development time. Having risked putting an unproven engine in a car that is in the hands of enthusiasts and spends so much time on tracks, would have been disastrous for Porsche's reputation had it failed even slightly as it would have been heavily scrutinised.

    Not to mention that many people buying GT3s or RSs don't really care a whole lot for fuel economy nor the environment .. because lets face it, if you did, the accelerator wouldn't be planted to the floor!!!!

    As for the gt1 engine, it is proven, it is solid and reliable. However, spending ridiculous amounts of money upgrading and retrofitting DFI to it is hardly worth the exercise considering that it wasn't designed for DFI, could present them with a whole new set of reliability issues and probably won't be around for a whole lot longer...

    The probably did the smartest thing by sticking with what works today until they get tomorrows technology right!

    Similarly, with PDK, the technology has only made its way into their road cars... As a customer, you'll want to be close enough to 100% sure that they've got it right  and that its bulletproof before you find it in your gt3 as it will be driven so much harder and you 'll certainly not want the costs associated with repairing/replacing one of those things.   

    Be grateful that they are researching and proving new technology at their expense rather than at customers' expense to be quick to market!

      


    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    cannga:

    If rumour is true that the old GT1 engine is still being used: For me,  from consumers' standpoint this is a huge disappoitment, unless RMS problem, **still** reported in US GT3 cars and still without an acceptable fix, has been corrected. This alone makes the car a no go. Sigh.
    --

    Regards,
    Can
    997 Turbo + Bilstein PSS10 (Review) + Cargraphic Exhaust (Heavenly Race Car Noise Smiley Review)

    Should a modern car leak? NO... Should a us$112k car leak? Shit NO!!!

    But if I'm tracking it, id rather the devil I know, than the devil I don't... I'm in the market for a gt3 and have pondered the same concern you mention. Personally, had the car been release with a 9A1 motor which is not track proven, I would have walked away. The gt1 motor may not be perfect but its rock solid and I'll take a leak over a piston out the side of the block any day.

    Hopefully in the past couple of years, they have fiddled with the RMS and sorted out any casting issues or seal problems... If we're lucky, all will be fine with RMS...


            


    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    No PDK for facelift GT3!

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    This new GT3 looked like it would have been the facelift RS, so will they still offer the RS version? I wonder what would be different besides the widebody and stickers.


    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    996cal:

    This new GT3 looked like it would have been the facelift RS, so will they still offer the RS version? I wonder what would be different besides the widebody and stickers.

     Rear wing

    997 GT3 RS mk2.jpg


    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    maybe the rs can have a 4.0l engine has the new rsr !! that would make things interesting !!
    --
    "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment."

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    I don't have nearly the detailed knowledge of the members on this board but for what it's worth I think it looks great !   Clean lines, yet purposeful.   Looks fast just sitting there.   However, I am a bit disappointed in the fact that Porsche did not upgrade to DI and will not offer PDK at least as an option.   I think understand many of the reasons put forth, but from my point of view when you ask a customer to drop $125-130 k for a vehicle it should have the latest technological features availabe on the market.   If owners want to track their cars then by all means go with the manual.   But not all buyers race their cars.    Some just like to have the most " connected " feeling car and just want to go fast.  And thus get the choice of the PDK.

    I'll take mine in white.    Cooool wheels !



    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    Grant:
    Super Darius:

    maybe is better to wait some weeks  to see the RSSmiley

    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Do you think it's only weeks and not months?

            


    --
    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs) Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2

            

    For MK1 were weeks,so i think also for  Mk2 will be weeks..

    months will take too much time and 997 MK2 life is not so long..but maybe i'm wrong..

    Smiley


    --
    997 TT, what a car/che'mmmmmaghena!!!

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    1395kg for Mk2 - how much did Mk1 weigh?

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    Also 1395kg.

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    RS will prob go for DFI + PDK + 4.0 -> making 470bhp?  and using 9A1 instead of GT1 block

    Re: 997 GT3 MK2 new pics

    I'm so happy to see that Sunroof is not required (or even available) for the US this time!

    2010-GT3-INTRO.gif

    --
    73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs) Former: 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2


     
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