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    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    gman:

    I know........just thought you may needed reminding after that post of your's......

     Maybe it's all a conspiracy all these  articles and GTR's winning against        GT2'sand  GT3's around the Globe......or just maybe Nissan targeted Porsche and

    their 911 Turbo and spent 5 years developing and then proof to the world that it's

    better cheaper and anyone can drive it fast without that white knuckle death grip on

    the steering wheel.........Hey......hang-on they did.

     

     

     Please try to get some additional background on this topic (recent available magazine tests with customer cars). We will not discuss this stuff on this level again. I will close the thread/delete posts which just reiterate what was claimed and contested here before. Please use the search function to see what I mean. We now discuss reliable tests and not videos that are reposts from several months ago.

    It is now clear that the GTR is slower than the GT2. It is on par with GT3 Mk2. It is faster than 997TT. We will not need to discuss this here any longer - except there are new facts available.


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    Let us compare GT2 with GTR V-Spec - do you have any thoughts on this?

    GTR is a little bit faster than GT3 and faster than 911 TT - agree also. 


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    FL 997TT HAS to match the GTR lap time.

    Anything less would be ridiculous, especially considering the current 997TT is about as fast as the 997C2S PDK SPASM FL on the NBR.

     

    GT2/3 are different animals, track oriented cars which the GT-R is not. The GT3.2 is fast enough, the the GT2.2 needs to differenciate more from the TT FL, thus sub 7.26 NBR
     (10s at least faster than TT FL and GT3 FL).

     

    Kudos to Nissan, they have done what they were supposed to do: build a very fast car for one lap at the NBR. Now Porsche better take note and start doing fast cars.


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    SciFrog:

    GT2/3 are different animals, track oriented cars which the GT-R is not.

    Kudos to Nissan, they have done what they were supposed to do: build a very fast car for one lap at the NBR.

    Aren't you contradicting yourself?  Smiley  Smiley



    --

    fritz


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

     Not at all, a car for one lap is not a track car...


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    SciFrog:

     Not at all, a car for one lap is not a track car...

    Good point!  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    MKSGR:

     The video he posted was posted here months ago. It shows a test on a desert track with varying track conditions (sand on the track surface). It is of no value for serious discussions.


    But fun to watch Smiley


    --

    ONUR

    09 Audi TTS Ibis

    07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    MKSGR:

    It is now clear that the GTR is slower than the GT2. It is on par with GT3 Mk2. It is faster than 997TT. We will not need to discuss this here any longer - except there are new facts available.

    It is a very succesful achievment from Nissan, IMO. Smiley especially if you consider the price.
     


    --

    ONUR

    09 Audi TTS Ibis

    07 997 Carrera S / 05 M3 Coupe / 03 M3 Coupe / 96 M3 Coupe EVO (ALL BUT HISTORY)

     


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    MKSGR:
    gman:

    You must be joking right.......besides winning all 3 premier Targa events in Australia recently against GT2's and 600k Lambos.........Watch the comparison between The GTR & GT3..

    Forget the GT3 against the GTR....no comparison....its headhunting the GT2....and has now got quiet a few GT2 Heads.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bc8Cf2gTM8

     

    PS: You guys are funny....so one-eyed to one Badge......

     

     

     I am not joking. That's why I posted above that you might want to read some of the available tests to expand your current view. The GTR does not handle as good as the GT3 or GT2. The reason why the GTR delivers similar lap times as the GT3 MK2 is that the GTR has about 50hp more. On tighter tracks the GT3 is still faster (given better suspension, steering). Just take a look at the upcoming Supertest for example, where the GT3 is faster on HHR (short track with more tighter sectors) or the AZ test driven by Kurt Thiim which also states that the GT3 is faster in the tighter section of the track wheras the GTR gains in the faster sectors.

    The GT2 is in a totally different league than the GTR: 1s on HHR, 5s on NBR (Supertest). The GT3 Mk2 is on par with the GTR (2s slower on NBR, 0.5s faster on the HHR).


     

    I do think that the GT2 is faster ,but I don't agree with you that Gt3/2 handle better than the GTR!

    We all know that the GTR's not very fast in straight line,.but it still put donw some incredibly fast laptimes.That means that the GTR is faster on corners!And it even beat the GT2 in several track tests!

    Even on the dry tarmac track,AWD has some advantage.Traction and stability are very important factors of handling for cars like GT2 and ZR1.A car that holds slighty faster mid-corner speed but has difficulties on exiting is not the best handling car.Only AWD can make full use of the tires and those tons of horsepowers.

    It's not a victory of the GTR,it's the intelligent AWD system's.All Nissan's RWD cars(350/370/Sylvia) are idiots on track.But now they show us that AWD will provide better handling for mighty sport cars.

    Just wait and see that how the FLTT beat the GT2.(Thought I don't think Porsche's AWD system can match Nissan's)


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring


    I do think that the GT2 is faster ,but I don't agree with you that Gt3/2 handle better than the GTR!

    We all know that the GTR's not very fast in straight line,.but it still put donw some incredibly fast laptimes.That means that the GTR is faster on corners!And it even beat the GT2 in several track tests!

    Even on the dry tarmac track,AWD has some advantage.Traction and stability are very important factors of handling for cars like GT2 and ZR1.A car that holds slighty faster mid-corner speed but has difficulties on exiting is not the best handling car.Only AWD can make full use of the tires and those tons of horsepowers.

    It's not a victory of the GTR,it's the intelligent AWD system's.All Nissan's RWD cars(350/370/Sylvia) are idiots on track.But now they show us that AWD will provide better handling for mighty sport cars.

    Just wait and see that how the FLTT beat the GT2.(Thought I don't think Porsche's AWD system can match Nissan's)

     

    I'm not so sure about the GTR's AWD system as the reason for its ability to hold such great speed in corners.  A lot of it has to be tires.  It seems like the GTR has really taken in up a notch since Nissan started fitting the Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST tires as standard.  These tires are reported to be stickier than the Bridgestones.  The Bridgestones have a treadwear rating of 140, but these new Dunlops are supposed to be 200.  I always thougth the "stickiness" corellated directly with the treadwear rating.  That seems odd to me.  Smiley  Maybe a tire guru can explain.  [EDIT:  In doing a little research, it would appear treadwear ratings are a pretty loose standard and can not be directly compared from tmanufacturer to manufacturer.  I guess it would be interesting to know how soft the Dunlops are using some sort of standardized rating]

    Also, SA's supertest of the GT-R is supposed to be out today.  Anyone have the results with the gory details?


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    EtherSpill:

    I'm not so sure about the GTR's AWD system as the reason for its ability to hold such great speed in corners.  A lot of it has to be tires.  It seems like the GTR has really taken in up a notch since Nissan started fitting the Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST tires as standard.  These tires are reported to be stickier than the Bridgestones.  The Bridgestones have a treadwear rating of 140, but these new Dunlops are supposed to be 200.  I always thougth the "stickiness" corellated directly with the treadwear rating.  That seems odd to me.  Smiley  Maybe a tire guru can explain.  [EDIT:  In doing a little research, it would appear treadwear ratings are a pretty loose standard and can not be directly compared from tmanufacturer to manufacturer.  I guess it would be interesting to know how soft the Dunlops are using some sort of standardized rating]

    Also, SA's supertest of the GT-R is supposed to be out today.  Anyone have the results with the gory details?

    The GTR on Bridgestones is still very fast on corners.

    Which tire do you think is better?Bridgestones or N-spec Pilot Sport Cup?

    what will a GTR be if it use the GT2/3's N-specPilot Sport Cup?

    And do you think that the Dunlops are stickier than Nspec Cup tires? 


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

     Which tire do you think is better?Bridgestones or N-spec Pilot Sport Cup?

    ****Imagine asking if runflats were better than Cups two years ago. Times have certainly changed.


    --


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

     'Ya VolMein fuhrer!'


    --


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    Buterworth:

    And do you think that the Dunlops are stickier than Nspec Cup tires? 

     The wet handling time in the Supertest will answer this question to a certain extent. If the wet handling result was poor the Dunlops can be considered extremely dry track oriented (maybe even more so than MS Cup or Pirelli Corsa). If the wet handling times were good the Dunlops would be more of a compromise (and the Cups might actually be a bit faster).

     

    Still need to buy the new SportAuto issue. I am very interested in the test results Smiley


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring


    The GTR on Bridgestones is still very fast on corners.

    Which tire do you think is better?Bridgestones or N-spec Pilot Sport Cup?

    what will a GTR be if it use the GT2/3's N-specPilot Sport Cup?

    And do you think that the Dunlops are stickier than Nspec Cup tires? 

     

    I don't know how the Dunlops compare to the Cup tires.  It would be interesting to see how a GT3 performs on those Dunlops, while we are asking about hypotheticals.  But I believe they are developed specially for the GTR.

    I do know that Nissan says the Dunlops are good for at least 5 seconds around the ring versus the Bridgestones, and that is not trivial.

    Also, the GTR records an incredible 1.35G in SportAuto's Supertest released today for the lateral handling segment.  That is with the Dunlop tires and really a fantastic number for a car of its mass.  This test is mostly a measure of grip, not the AWD system.  The only reference cars listed that have more lateral grip are all lighter (GT3, M3 CSL, F430 Scud).   Again, it would be interesting to see what a GTR with the Bridgestone tires records in that test.


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring


     The wet handling time in the Supertest will answer this question to a certain extent. If the wet handling result was poor the Dunlops can be considered extremely dry track oriented (maybe even more so than MS Cup or Pirelli Corsa). If the wet handling times were good the Dunlops would be more of a compromise (and the Cups might actually be a bit faster).

     

    Still need to buy the new SportAuto issue. I am very interested in the test results Smiley

     

    I don't want to spoil the fun for you, but someone on the Nissan forum already scanned and uploaded it.  The wet handling test appears to be mediocre to good results...same as E92 M3.  Perhaps you can translate some of the comments because my German is not so good.

    Here is the message.  You have to download from a file sharing site.

    http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=31428


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    MKSGR:
    The reason why the GTR delivers similar lap times as the GT3 MK2 is that the GTR has about 50hp more.


    You aren't serious are you??  GTR = 478bhp and 1740kg = 274bhp/ton

                                                          GT3 mk2 = 435bhp and 1395kg = 311bhp/ton

    Throw in the fact the GT3 wears R-compound tyres and nearly all have ceramic brakes and there's no way a GTR should be quicker in a stright line, on the brakes or around corners yet it repeatedly beats the GT3 in track tests around the globe!  It does handle, trust me, I've driven one around a long sweeper on the Nurburgring GP circuit at 135+mph within 5 minutes of being in one and its rock steady.

    As for all the other talk of how journalists/test drivers can't get as close to Nissan's times in the GTR but get closer to Porsche's times in various 911's, maybe its because the 911 has been around since 1938 and all journalists etc. know how they work.  Maybe they just need a bit more time in the GTR!


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    turbobungle.com:
    MKSGR:
    The reason why the GTR delivers similar lap times as the GT3 MK2 is that the GTR has about 50hp more.


    You aren't serious are you??  GTR = 478bhp and 1740kg = 274bhp/ton

                                                          GT3 mk2 = 435bhp and 1395kg = 311bhp/ton

    Throw in the fact the GT3 wears R-compound tyres and nearly all have ceramic brakes and there's no way a GTR should be quicker in a stright line, on the brakes or around corners yet it repeatedly beats the GT3 in track tests around the globe!  It does handle, trust me, I've driven one around a long sweeper on the Nurburgring GP circuit at 135+mph within 5 minutes of being in one and its rock steady.

    As for all the other talk of how journalists/test drivers can't get as close to Nissan's times in the GTR but get closer to Porsche's times in various 911's, maybe its because the 911 has been around since 1938 and all journalists etc. know how they work.  Maybe they just need a bit more time in the GTR!

     I am 100% serious. You just need to read the AutoZeitung Test (driver Kurt Thiim) to better understand my posts. The GTR gains in faster, more fluid sections. This is only possible given its 50hp plus (the car has 485hp, not 478 as you write above).

    The GTR is too fat. This prevents the car from showing better acceleration, And the overweight is also the reason for the lack of durability. Breaks, tires, tranny: the weight kills them all...


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    EtherSpill:

     The wet handling time in the Supertest will answer this question to a certain extent. If the wet handling result was poor the Dunlops can be considered extremely dry track oriented (maybe even more so than MS Cup or Pirelli Corsa). If the wet handling times were good the Dunlops would be more of a compromise (and the Cups might actually be a bit faster).

     

    Still need to buy the new SportAuto issue. I am very interested in the test results Smiley

     

    I don't want to spoil the fun for you, but someone on the Nissan forum already scanned and uploaded it.  The wet handling test appears to be mediocre to good results...same as E92 M3.  Perhaps you can translate some of the comments because my German is not so good.

    Here is the message.  You have to download from a file sharing site.

    http://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=31428

     Thanks Smiley

    Wet handling is about 1s slower than 997TT on Cup tires. I.e. I would argue that the Dunlop tires are farily optimized for use on dry tracks.

    NBR: ca. 2s faster than GT3

    HHR: ca. 0.5s slower than GT3

    The test states that only the Nissan claims (7.26) could generate frustration with the now achieved lap times as the result is still very good. The car seems to have only moderate understeer on turn-in and in faster bends. Gear-box is apparently the best DKG they have driven to date. Power delivery seems to be OK. Brakes are far below GT2/GT3 performance.

    Clearly the acceleration performance is a disadvantage. 0-200 in 13s (despite a gearing which is optimized for better 0-200 performance! Shift to next gear is a t 202kph...). Acceleration at higher speeds will also suffer from poor CwxA of 0.71. Not the best car for Autobahn cruises... Also, 20l/100km is way too much...


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    MKSGR:

     I am 100% serious. You just need to read the AutoZeitung Test (driver Kurt Thiim) to better understand my posts. The GTR gains in faster, more fluid sections. This is only possible given its 50hp plus (the car has 485hp, not 478 as you write above).

    The GTR is too fat. This prevents the car from showing better acceleration, And the overweight is also the reason for the lack of durability. Breaks, tires, tranny: the weight kills them all...

    Speaking of Kurt Thim...the DTM champion managed to be 7/10 quicker than the GT3 BUT in the magazine that just made a 20 page Porsche special celebrating the 25th Porsche in the Supertest, it was 0.3 seconds slower, driven by someone who has yet to win a race.

    Just saying.


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    MKSGR:
    turbobungle.com:
    MKSGR:
    The reason why the GTR delivers similar lap times as the GT3 MK2 is that the GTR has about 50hp more.


    You aren't serious are you??  GTR = 478bhp and 1740kg = 274bhp/ton

                                                          GT3 mk2 = 435bhp and 1395kg = 311bhp/ton

    Throw in the fact the GT3 wears R-compound tyres and nearly all have ceramic brakes and there's no way a GTR should be quicker in a stright line, on the brakes or around corners yet it repeatedly beats the GT3 in track tests around the globe!  It does handle, trust me, I've driven one around a long sweeper on the Nurburgring GP circuit at 135+mph within 5 minutes of being in one and its rock steady.

    As for all the other talk of how journalists/test drivers can't get as close to Nissan's times in the GTR but get closer to Porsche's times in various 911's, maybe its because the 911 has been around since 1938 and all journalists etc. know how they work.  Maybe they just need a bit more time in the GTR!

     I am 100% serious. You just need to read the AutoZeitung Test (driver Kurt Thiim) to better understand my posts. The GTR gains in faster, more fluid sections. This is only possible given its 50hp plus (the car has 485hp, not 478 as you write above).

    The GTR is too fat. This prevents the car from showing better acceleration, And the overweight is also the reason for the lack of durability. Breaks, tires, tranny: the weight kills them all...


    The GTR has 478bhp (original version had 473bhp) which is 485ps.  And you've just contradicted yourself.  You say the 50bhp advantage makes all the difference and is why the GTR is faster then say that the extra weight of the GTR kills the acceleration, brakes, tyres etc.  so why isn't the lighter 'better handling' GT3 with a higher power to weight ratio and better brakes faster than a GTR everywhere??


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    Walter:
    MKSGR:

     I am 100% serious. You just need to read the AutoZeitung Test (driver Kurt Thiim) to better understand my posts. The GTR gains in faster, more fluid sections. This is only possible given its 50hp plus (the car has 485hp, not 478 as you write above).

    The GTR is too fat. This prevents the car from showing better acceleration, And the overweight is also the reason for the lack of durability. Breaks, tires, tranny: the weight kills them all...

    Speaking of Kurt Thim...the DTM champion managed to be 7/10 quicker than the GT3 BUT in the magazine that just made a 20 page Porsche special celebrating the 25th Porsche in the Supertest, it was 0.3 seconds slower, driven by someone who has yet to win a race.

    Just saying.

     So what Smiley


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    turbobungle.com:
    MKSGR:
    turbobungle.com:
    MKSGR:
    The reason why the GTR delivers similar lap times as the GT3 MK2 is that the GTR has about 50hp more.


    You aren't serious are you??  GTR = 478bhp and 1740kg = 274bhp/ton

                                                          GT3 mk2 = 435bhp and 1395kg = 311bhp/ton

    Throw in the fact the GT3 wears R-compound tyres and nearly all have ceramic brakes and there's no way a GTR should be quicker in a stright line, on the brakes or around corners yet it repeatedly beats the GT3 in track tests around the globe!  It does handle, trust me, I've driven one around a long sweeper on the Nurburgring GP circuit at 135+mph within 5 minutes of being in one and its rock steady.

    As for all the other talk of how journalists/test drivers can't get as close to Nissan's times in the GTR but get closer to Porsche's times in various 911's, maybe its because the 911 has been around since 1938 and all journalists etc. know how they work.  Maybe they just need a bit more time in the GTR!

     I am 100% serious. You just need to read the AutoZeitung Test (driver Kurt Thiim) to better understand my posts. The GTR gains in faster, more fluid sections. This is only possible given its 50hp plus (the car has 485hp, not 478 as you write above).

    The GTR is too fat. This prevents the car from showing better acceleration, And the overweight is also the reason for the lack of durability. Breaks, tires, tranny: the weight kills them all...


    The GTR has 478bhp (original version had 473bhp) which is 485ps.  And you've just contradicted yourself.  You say the 50bhp advantage makes all the difference and is why the GTR is faster then say that the extra weight of the GTR kills the acceleration, brakes, tyres etc.  so why isn't the lighter 'better handling' GT3 with a higher power to weight ratio and better brakes faster than a GTR everywhere??

     As I said: because the Nissan engine has much more power and torque Smiley Without that (i.e. with same power as GT3) the GTR would be far slower than the GT3. You can see this with the GT2: faster in all categories...


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    Some good results for the GTR and a credit to Nissan for job well done but clearly, with the exception of the NBR time, the gt3.2 was ahead in virtually every other test..... Even matched the GTR in acceleration from a standing start and I'd say its far more difficult to get a manual off the line cleanly whereas the GTR does it all for you perfectly with launch control...


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring


    The GTR has 478bhp (original version had 473bhp) which is 485ps.  And you've just contradicted yourself.  You say the 50bhp advantage makes all the difference and is why the GTR is faster then say that the extra weight of the GTR kills the acceleration, brakes, tyres etc.  so why isn't the lighter 'better handling' GT3 with a higher power to weight ratio and better brakes faster than a GTR everywhere??

     Please take this in good spirit as I think you know what you're talking about and also have first have experience with the GTR that many people (myself included) who are making comments don't.  However that 485ps number is very underrated.  

    The American magazine "Car and Driver" did multiple dyno runs on multiple examples of the GTR and found that even strapped to a stationary dyno with paltry fans, it was making more like 515-520 crank hp.  Put on an open road at 200kmh+ where its intercooler(s) are more efficient and I would wager it might make even more.

    Also, if you look closely at the latest supertest results you see the GT3 as faster coming out of the corners which lead to the main straight sections, yet the GTR still posts higher top speeds on those straights.  This has to be because of a power (EDIT: "power to weight" is what I meant) advantage.  Well, that's my theory, at least.  Smiley

     

     


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    MKSGR:
     So what Smiley

    I'd rather listen to the guy that has actually achieved something to the other guy who has achieved 0.

    If you read between the lines it's obvious that the guy really thinks he got 100% out of the GT-R which makes me wonder who the hell does he think he is?

    I thought that after having the opportunity to eat some humble pie (being 11 seconds slower than Dindo Cappello on a normal track in the R10) he would think twce about writing things like that but no, he had to remind himself where the headquarters of his magazine are (yep, Stuttgart Smiley, weird huh?).


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    Walter:
    MKSGR:
     So what Smiley

    I'd rather listen to the guy that has actually achieved something to the other guy who has achieved 0.

    If you read between the lines it's obvious that the guy really thinks he got 100% out of the GT-R which makes me wonder who the hell does he think he is?

    I thought that after having the opportunity to eat some humble pie (being 11 seconds slower than Dindo Cappello on a normal track in the R10) he would think twce about writing things like that but no, he had to remind himself where the headquarters of his magazine are (yep, Stuttgart Smiley, weird huh?).

     I don't think so. Just recall the 997TT Supertest, for example. The poor result caused some Porsche employees big pain - believe me. SportAuto has a big track record of being unbiased Smiley


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    EtherSpill:


    The GTR has 478bhp (original version had 473bhp) which is 485ps.  And you've just contradicted yourself.  You say the 50bhp advantage makes all the difference and is why the GTR is faster then say that the extra weight of the GTR kills the acceleration, brakes, tyres etc.  so why isn't the lighter 'better handling' GT3 with a higher power to weight ratio and better brakes faster than a GTR everywhere??

     Please take this in good spirit as I think you know what you're talking about and also have first have experience with the GTR that many people (myself included) who are making comments don't.  However that 485ps number is very underrated.  

    The American magazine "Car and Driver" did multiple dyno runs on multiple examples of the GTR and found that even strapped to a stationary dyno with paltry fans, it was making more like 515-520 crank hp.  Put on an open road at 200kmh+ where its intercooler(s) are more efficient and I would wager it might make even more.

    From what I've read/heard the reason it seems more powerful than Nissan claims is down to especially low transmission losses of around 10%.  I've seen a few dyno tests claiming 430bhp (ish) at the wheels which at 10% transmission loss would be 478bhp at the crank, if someone is allowing the usual 20% loss then it would need 537bhp at the crank to give the same power at the wheels.  So, if the transmission really does sap 10% of the power, it would have the same effect as having a extra 50-odd bhp!  Theory works, could be true, may not be, who knows?!?!?

    Either way I'm happy, if its not true I may have bought a 530bhp stormer instead of a 478bhp one for a mere £53,000.00 !!!!
     


    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    Once you drive the GT2 then you cant drive anything else! I also have a very nice full option RS4 B7 which I love it and still believe its an amazing car, and used to have it for my everyday car. By the day i got the GT2 nomatter where i go nommater how far i have to go i only use that! This car is so much fun to drive and so good on the road that every time i get i my garage it wins my decision me and i always take that.

    Re: AMS : GT-R vs 997 Turbo on Nurburgring

    911terror:
    Once you drive the GT2 then you cant drive anything else! I also have a very nice full option RS4 B7 which I love it and still believe its an amazing car, and used to have it for my everyday car. By the day i got the GT2 nomatter where i go nommater how far i have to go i only use that! This car is so much fun to drive and so good on the road that every time i get i my garage it wins my decision me and i always take that.

     

    100% agree. The GT2 "spoils" you - not only as far as track oriented cars are concerned but also regarding cars for daily use Smiley


     
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