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    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    In horse-racing (here in the UK), if there is any issue about the race, the result is not announced until after a stewards' enquiry. There isn't a farcical situation where the result is announced and then subsequently changed again and again. But the stewards' enquiry in horse-racing happens quickly  - obviously the bookies need to know the outcome promptly so that they can quickly establish whose bets won and whose didn't.

    F1 by comparison is rapidly becoming a laughing stock.

    Also, what about the spread-bets that are being placed? If the results keep changing days after the event, people may be losing out on their winnings and others may be getting paid out when they shouldn't be...


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    Rennteam Moderator - 997S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    In other sports, the referees decision during the game is what counts. If anything turns out afterwards, the penalties are either fines or for the next race.


    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    Good point except that the complexity of the F1 cars and the rules that come with it are so complex, there needs to be some ruling after the event.

    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    Eunice:
    fritz:
    Eunice:

    I think that's really hard punishment, but then again, McLaren is not innocent, they did some fair amount of cheating in the past.

    Smiley

    Only if you look upon the phrase "there is no smoke without fire" as adequate proof of guilt. Smiley

    I wasn't referring to the last race,............


    I wasn't either. I assumed you were referring to the 100 million $ "Ferrari secrets" scandal.  Smiley


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    fritz

    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    Crikey - I've now heard the McLaren team radio conversation (which took place during the race while Trulli was just behind LH) and (I quote) the team said the following:

    "Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now".

    LH then told the stewards he had not been instructed to do this by the team - because Dave Ryan (McLaren Sporting Director) had instructed him to (and I quote) "withhold information".

    If a soldier is ordered to commit an atrocity, it still remains an atrocity. "Following orders" is not a good enough excuse IMO. 

    Lewis said he was "misled". Nonsense. 

    LH claims he is not a "liar" and that he is not "dishonest" BUT he later described it as being like a "professional dive" in soccer. How is that not dishonest as well??? When footballers dive to get a free kick or penalty, that's dishonest!!

    The more this sordid saga has unfolded, the more it has tarnished LH and McLaren. 

    Shame on Lewis. He deserved to be punished. LH has fallen into the gutter - just for 1 extra world championship point. So sad. I can never trust another word he says at face value. 


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    Rennteam Moderator - 997S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    Come on Easy_rider911, Lewis is a young guy, got it wrong in the spur of the moment. Of course I cannot talk it right and don't want to do it but he has received a serious punishment. Remember that last years championship balanced on one point, this 6 point penaulty can be very painful.


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    2008 Cayenne Turbo - 2007 BMW X5 4.8is (sold) - 2007 Landcruiser Prado - 1997 Wrangler TJ - 1957 LR

    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    Lewis is a young talented sportsman in the wide world of money and intrique!

    He was asked by his boss to say something and he did. Don't shoot him and don't crucify him!


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts

    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    With great respect, LH didn't just "get it wrong". It wasn't just a mistake. He knowingly withheld information which, given what he was asked, was effectively misleading/lying. It's dishonesty.

    A steward's enquiry is like appearing in court - they hear the arguments, the panel can include lawyers and they hand out punishments.

    He's 24 years old. Not a child. Anyone lying to a judge goes to jail for 'perverting the course of justice'.

     


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    Rennteam Moderator - 997S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    easy_rider911:

    With great respect, LH didn't just "get it wrong". It wasn't just a mistake. He knowingly withheld information which, given what he was asked, was effectively misleading/lying. It's dishonesty.

    A steward's enquiry is like appearing in court - they hear the arguments, the panel can include lawyers and they hand out punishments.

    He's 24 years old. Not a child. Anyone lying to a judge goes to jail for 'perverting the course of justice'.

     

    True. It's also bad sportsmanship. Like Schumacher trying to knock Villeneuve out of the race when he was obviously going to win.


    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    It´s no surprise to me that Hamilton is being dishonest. I have always claimed that he was a slick mo-fo who tries to slither his way thru F1 using his politically correct statements, "I have to thank the team"-speeches and general innocent demeanor.

    But I am also sure that all other teams are cutting corners any which way they can - McLaren is just exceptionally bad at it and on top of that dumb enough to even THINK they can pull any stunts after Ferrari-gate without the FIA getting down hard on them.

    Again they are firing one of their top men to preserve the appearance of integrity..LOL!

    Good luck, young Smoothtalker, May the Farce be with you!


    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    And the consequences just keep on growing for McLaren:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7985669.stm

    I expect the FIA will do something pretty drastic to again make an example out of this team (that has already been fined USD 100 million over the Ferrari spying scandal) by e.g. zero points in the 2009 Constructors Championship no matter what they do in the races to come ... or a massive fine of millions of dollars ...


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    Rennteam Moderator - 997S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    Brawn had illegal exhausts on first race. Exhaust should be hidden, but their can be clearly seen:

     

     



    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    Dont think he would quit , but what about the team as a whole ..As it states , they clearly got lots of performance tech work to catch up on and it seems that LH is getting a kick in the goolies left right and centre...


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    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    I never believe it when people who haven't actually resigned shortly afterwards claim that they considered resigning. Politicians do it all the time - it's just a way of diffusing some of the media pressure. 

    Lewis wouldn't resign from F1 in a million years. 


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    Rennteam Moderator - 997S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection



    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    IMO Hamilton's reputation will depend on his performance on the track. How many races or championships he will win will determine his image and status as a racing driver and not a "lie".

    Schumacher and even fabled and demi-god Senna did worse things in their career but who can argue with MS's 7 titles and 91 wins and Senna's talent, 3 titles, 41 wins and  the many victories against the odds. Even if you point a finger at them for their wrong doings it will look like sour grapes.

    If Hamilton stays at one title (this will of course depend on his car) then he might be remembered as "black liar and one hit wonder". If he carries on with winning no one will remember this incident.


    --
    It's not where you're going, it's how you get there that counts


    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    FIA gives McLaren team a suspended 3 race ban:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8024661.stm

     


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    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    Well, it isn't enforced immediately:

     

    The penalty will only be enforced upon Lewis Hamilton's team if "further facts emerge" about this incident or if there is a "further breach" of the rules.

    I think this isn't too bad, given what you could face after lying in court?


    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    I think this outcome really was a best-case scenario for McLaren. They will be breathing a sigh of relief today...


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    Rennteam Moderator - 997.1 C2S Coupe GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: 2009 Australian F1 Grand Prix from Melbourne

    I think Mercedes' veiled threat of pulling out of F1 worked...


     
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