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    Automatic or Manual

    I'm considering a new 997S and I'm not sure if I should go for a Automatic or manual shift.

    Currently we have three cars, two of them are automatic, the Porsche still a manual. I really like driving the manual, but my wife doesnt like it at all. Anyway - decision is up to me, so what keeps me away from getting automatic is:

    - lack of power?
    - Automatic seems to be out of date technique (5-gear, slow shift speed, etc.) compared to 7G Mercedes or BMWs new ZF 6 Gear Tranni?
    - Sound... yes... sound when accelerarting is in my opinion awful?
    - resell... more difficult in Germany?

    Are those points I mentioned feasable or am I completley wrong (especially in the out of date question).

    THX for feedback, L@rs

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Quote:
    Lars996 said:
    I'm considering a new 997S and I'm not sure if I should go for a Automatic or manual shift.

    Currently we have three cars, two of them are automatic, the Porsche still a manual. I really like driving the manual, but my wife doesnt like it at all. Anyway - decision is up to me, so what keeps me away from getting automatic is:

    - lack of power?
    - Automatic seems to be out of date technique (5-gear, slow shift speed, etc.) compared to 7G Mercedes or BMWs new ZF 6 Gear Tranni?
    - Sound... yes... sound when accelerarting is in my opinion awful?
    - resell... more difficult in Germany?

    Are those points I mentioned feasable or am I completley wrong (especially in the out of date question).

    THX for feedback, [Email]L@rs[/Email]



    That's easy, Lars.

    current 997S --> manual
    facelifted 997S --> PDK

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    THX Rossi...

    damnnn this is so hard.... I wished to have this PDK right away. Wanna have this car for summer not waiting till next year :-(

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Agree with Rossi.
    current 997S --> manual
    facelifted 997S --> PDK

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Quote:
    Haku said:
    Agree with Rossi.
    current 997S --> manual
    facelifted 997S --> PDK



    +1

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Quote:
    Lars996 said:
    I'm considering a new 997S and I'm not sure if I should go for a Automatic or manual shift.

    Currently we have three cars, two of them are automatic, the Porsche still a manual. I really like driving the manual, but my wife doesnt like it at all. Anyway - decision is up to me, so what keeps me away from getting automatic is:

    - lack of power?
    - Automatic seems to be out of date technique (5-gear, slow shift speed, etc.) compared to 7G Mercedes or BMWs new ZF 6 Gear Tranni?
    - Sound... yes... sound when accelerarting is in my opinion awful?
    - resell... more difficult in Germany?

    Are those points I mentioned feasable or am I completley wrong (especially in the out of date question).



    Those seem to be very valid points Lars, and I can add one more that I particularly dislike about the Tip, and that is the throtte feel, its not as instant and sporty as the manual's, especially noticiable when driving sportly or at the track.
    Also it makes the car heavier and with greater loss of power through the tranny. And you loose the ability to play with the clutch and stick. and you already have other cars for when you would want an automatic, so would make sense to leave the sporty 911 as a manual to enjoy.

    ... And if your wife does not like drive manuals, could that be considered another reason?

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    :-) Thx all of you... I really do hard but you just confirming my reasoning. Its really time, that Porsche is improving the Auto Tranny and give us the long wished PDK with paddles!

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    My own view is that I would only buy a manual whether current 997S or facelifted 997S. I would certainly not buy a Tip for the reasons already stated but I would go so far as to include the PDK. No doubt, it will be a truly massive improvement on the Tip BUT (and it's a big but) IMHO, although the PDK will do very effectively what the Tip has been poor at doing, from a driver involvement/pleasure point of view, it's still not the real thing. It's just the nature of it.

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Lars996 said:
    I'm considering a new 997S and I'm not sure if I should go for a Automatic or manual shift.

    Currently we have three cars, two of them are automatic, the Porsche still a manual. I really like driving the manual, but my wife doesnt like it at all. Anyway - decision is up to me, so what keeps me away from getting automatic is:

    - lack of power?
    - Automatic seems to be out of date technique (5-gear, slow shift speed, etc.) compared to 7G Mercedes or BMWs new ZF 6 Gear Tranni?
    - Sound... yes... sound when accelerarting is in my opinion awful?
    - resell... more difficult in Germany?

    Are those points I mentioned feasable or am I completley wrong (especially in the out of date question).

    THX for feedback, [Email]L@rs[/Email]



    That's easy, Lars.

    current 997S --> manual
    facelifted 997S --> PDK



    From your post I understand that the sensible choice is:
    current 997S --> manual
    facelifted 997S --> PDK

    But I recall you said that PDK is a genuine alternative to the tip and not to the manual

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    OK let me start by saying I am not trying to start a discussion war.

    "For Me" there is no way I would buy a sports car that is automatic. You can say PDK, Tip, Automatic, or whatever. I love the feel and control of a manual. To me a manual is where my left leg/foot has to push in a clutch. I have driven cars with the paddle shifts and I just don't see what the big deal is. You get in the car and put it in drive/manual and you push the gas. Yes you can hit the paddle shift and the car goes into another gear but where is the fun in that.

    As you can tell my answer is manual and only a manual. But you really need to decide how important it is for your wife. If she hates the manual and she drives the car a lot get the automatic.

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Paddle shifts make the pleasure of driving a 911 more like a 'PlayStation' experience...there's something very satisfying about moving that gearlever in perfect timing with the clutch and throttle pedals...the interraction is priceless.

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    yeah, i went with a manual and im very happy with it.

    however, i recommend that you also consider the traffic in your area, as this is also important !

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Manual > DSG > Tip

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    If you drive in traffic buy another car and not Tip Carrera. I did this mistake and regreting it everyday given that I like it hardcore. My SMGII M3 satisfied me in this regard given that I drive it daily in very heavy trafic, however my tipS is a total failure and dissapointment. Given the prices here I will take a huge hit trading it but planning to do it this year. Porsche is years behind with the TipS transmission in my opinion but what do I know!!!

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    I have never understood why you have 2 feet and 3 paddles!! SO I would go for automatic.
    Jokes a side, I am driving my second 911 C4 in tiptronic and love it. If you want to go on the race track this is not the way to go. On my Ferrari 360 I have the F1 gear box. For me the paddle shift is the way to go. Even my wife loves to drive the Ferrari with paddle shift. Automatic when you want it and shifting gears manually if you want to go fast.

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Got SMG on my 04 M3. It's fantastic. Lightening-fast shifts even on curves are possible. No doubt it's the way to go.

    Very "sad" that we always seem to have to be waiting for something. IMO, PDK would be the only and last thing worth waiting for.

    When PDK comes around I read the Tip will be permanently retired.

    The only thing that bothers me about the Tip is the question of how much HP is lost. Does anybody know? If it's only 5-10 get the tip.

    I know how to shift (duh...) but nowadays (with PDK and Tip) I think it's an illusion to think by manually shifting you're doing something "more connected" to driving the car. By doing less rowing you have more energy to spend paying attention to other driving-related cues.

    Plus, which cars are faster around a twisty track? Tip, PDK, or manual? If the Tip (in "manual" shift mode) is faster get the Tip.

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    The 1885 Benz system is so much better anyway. Having only three pedals, one steering wheel and one gear lever is for amateurs!

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Quote:
    Ziggy said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Lars996 said:
    I'm considering a new 997S and I'm not sure if I should go for a Automatic or manual shift.

    Currently we have three cars, two of them are automatic, the Porsche still a manual. I really like driving the manual, but my wife doesnt like it at all. Anyway - decision is up to me, so what keeps me away from getting automatic is:

    - lack of power?
    - Automatic seems to be out of date technique (5-gear, slow shift speed, etc.) compared to 7G Mercedes or BMWs new ZF 6 Gear Tranni?
    - Sound... yes... sound when accelerarting is in my opinion awful?
    - resell... more difficult in Germany?

    Are those points I mentioned feasable or am I completley wrong (especially in the out of date question).

    THX for feedback, [Email]L@rs[/Email]



    That's easy, Lars.

    current 997S --> manual
    facelifted 997S --> PDK



    From your post I understand that the sensible choice is:
    current 997S --> manual
    facelifted 997S --> PDK

    But I recall you said that PDK is a genuine alternative to the tip and not to the manual



    I have to make myself clear:
    As I was replying to Lars, who originally asked if he should get Tiptronic or manual in the 997S and his wife favours Automatic trannies , my answer makes sense.

    If somebody had asked if Auto or manual gearox, the answer would be as follows:

    current 997S --> manual
    faceliftet 99S --> PDK or manual

    As far as I'm concerned, I would never choose a standard Tiptronic in a car like the 997S. But when it comes to PDK - and I know it's relative DSG rather good - I would talk of a true alternative to the beloved manual.

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    The only thing that bothers me about the Tip is the question of how much HP is lost. Does anybody know? If it's only 5-10 get the tip.





    The dyno graphs in the linked page maybe not statistically relevant, but it seems that the efficiency of the Tiptronic has been improved in the recent years.
    If you compare Tip vs. Manual of the older cars (with massive power losses for the Tip-cars ) with the newer cars there seems to be a relative power loss gap of > 10%-points for the older cars and something like 5%-points for the newer cars.

    As for the poll - for me manual please any day
    http://www.rri.se/index.php?DN=29&List=O-R

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Manual all the way!

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    I think it's OK for the guy, the husband, whatever, to have a car that just he drives. If the wife doesn't like manual, she has two other cars she can drive. I think it's ok for the wife to have a car that she only drives. Several guys I know have tips in their Porsches because they say their girlfriend or wife will not drive manual. Turns out, the wives seldom drive the Porsches anyway. I guess it all depends on the kind of relationship you have with your partner. My wife doesn't even really like Porsches at all. But she supports my "hobby," if you will, of owning one. Lucky me, though, she likes manual. So we have a TDI VW manual and a Porsche 997 manual (which she never drives).

    Just my opinion. Everybody's relationship is different.

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Lars, leaving aside the technical merits which people here have all covered fully already, speaking as one married man to another it all comes down to what you can persuade your wife to accept If you will face any aggravation because of it , then it's down to you to decide whether you make a stand or choose the 'path of least resistance' Good luck my friend

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Quote:
    chipper said:
    Several guys I know have tips in their Porsches because they say their girlfriend or wife will not drive manual. Turns out, the wives seldom drive the Porsches anyway.



    Sooooo True!!

    Wives want to be able to drive it but once the novelty wears off and they see how much the husband's love the car they lose interest in, or are too "scared" to drive it.

    The trick is to get wives to see this _before_ you place the order. You can always get the manual and lie; if you have to, pay off the salesguy to go along with your story.

    "Dammit honey, they made a mistake and sent a manual tranny!"

    "That's okay dear, I've been thinking, I know how much you'll love the car I would feel funny driving it anyway."


    Re: Automatic or Manual

    I drove a 996 C4S Tiptronic in Germany and HATED it. Worthless transmission. Get the manual--you will be glad you did.

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Why lie? Just tell the wife you want the manual and get it.

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Buy the manual and then encourage your wife to wind it up. She will fall in love with it.

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    To give you an authoritative answer I'd have to know what kind of driving you would be doing in the car (commuting, spirited weekend drives, tracking, long trips, etc.) and the kind of driver you are (accomplished racer, slow and easy, aggressive, etc.) For myself I've driven steptronics, tiptronics, dynaflows, hydramatics, fordomatics and enjoyed them all. I currently drive an SMG and 2 different 5 speed manuals. Each has its' advantages. If I were to use the car for commuting and shopping I'd go with an autobox. Spirited driving and tracking I'd choose a stick.

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Quote:
    bstew said:
    Why lie? Just tell the wife you want the manual and get it.



    Yep, it works for you and me.

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Ziggy said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Lars996 said:
    I'm considering a new 997S and I'm not sure if I should go for a Automatic or manual shift.

    Currently we have three cars, two of them are automatic, the Porsche still a manual. I really like driving the manual, but my wife doesnt like it at all. Anyway - decision is up to me, so what keeps me away from getting automatic is:

    - lack of power?
    - Automatic seems to be out of date technique (5-gear, slow shift speed, etc.) compared to 7G Mercedes or BMWs new ZF 6 Gear Tranni?
    - Sound... yes... sound when accelerarting is in my opinion awful?
    - resell... more difficult in Germany?

    Are those points I mentioned feasable or am I completley wrong (especially in the out of date question).

    THX for feedback, [Email]L@rs[/Email]



    That's easy, Lars.

    current 997S --> manual
    facelifted 997S --> PDK



    From your post I understand that the sensible choice is:
    current 997S --> manual
    facelifted 997S --> PDK

    But I recall you said that PDK is a genuine alternative to the tip and not to the manual



    I have to make myself clear:
    As I was replying to Lars, who originally asked if he should get Tiptronic or manual in the 997S and his wife favours Automatic trannies , my answer makes sense.

    If somebody had asked if Auto or manual gearox, the answer would be as follows:

    current 997S --> manual
    faceliftet 99S --> PDK or manual

    As far as I'm concerned, I would never choose a standard Tiptronic in a car like the 997S. But when it comes to PDK - and I know it's relative DSG rather good - I would talk of a true alternative to the beloved manual.



    Thanks for the clarification

    Re: Automatic or Manual

    Thank you all - this helps a lot! You all are confirming my concerns. I think, this car will 95% driven by myself. So - I will just make the decision to get an manual and my wife will accept that because she got her new Cooper S in Auto . Anyway - I want to have a sporty car. For cruising I have my BMW with Adaptive Cruise Control.


    But still, I think the major point of making the decision is, that the TiptronicS is just 5 or even 10 years behind any other developments and this clearly sucks. So having a state of the art Sportscar with a Tranny like a Granny - I rather push the clutch again,

    cheers and so much thanks again, L@rs

     
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