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    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    To be fair there is a lot of electricity produced by water or wind and also nuclear is ok as well since plants already exist and will produce electricity anyway.

    Dirty electricity produced by coal or diesel is to blame and in these countries where they use coal there is no clean benefit by using electric cars.

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    IMO the answer is to continue with internal combustion engines (the devil we know) and take measures to reduce the dependence on private transport through alternatives, taxation, high tolls for single travelers, car free zones etc.

    Electric cars are a nice attraction to novelty seekers but they cannot save the planet.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    wantone:

    To be fair there is a lot of electricity produced by water or wind and also nuclear is ok as well since plants already exist and will produce electricity anyway.

    Dirty electricity produced by coal or diesel is to blame and in these countries where they use coal there is no clean benefit by using electric cars.

     

    Exactly. Also, most electric cars are used during daytime and we all know that there is a lot of electric current going to waste in the night hours because the consumption drops but power stations cannot be turned off instantly. So in the end, electric cars are a bit more "green" than regular petrol operated cars but the used battery disposal issues still remain a huge problem for the future.

    Also, what many seem to forget: Conventional engine technology isn't even close to it's prime development, there is so much possible with the current conventional technology, many aren't even aware of it.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Personally, I am sold on the Tesla as a daily driver if there is free access to a dense supercharger network and gas/diesel prices > 1 euro per lt. The ability to drive for many thousands of kms without any incremental cost appeals to me.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    From a different perspective, Tesla has introduced a sales revolution, one that bypasses the conventional dealership model that many find annoying, unnecessary and cumbersome.  A customer can see a model online or in a shopping mall store, and order it without going to a dealership.  To many buyers, this is a true convenience.  

    I enjoy the dealership experience, but many do not..  And Porsche, like many other manufacturers, is gradually moving away from the dealership model.  There are numerous efficiencies to selling cars directly from a manufacturer.   The new Porsche Experience Centers in Atlanta and Los Angeles are not only marketing and brand approaches, but ultimately will be order/pick up centers for new car deliveries.  


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    … and order it without going to a dealership …

    This will be the future. I read a study about young people in Germany. There is a growing group of them which is already afraid to have physical contact with the bank or an insurance.

    Probably in 10 or 20 years this group will become much bigger and they don’t even want to have contact with any dealership.If I am honest I don’t see any advantage to visit my clueless Porsche dealer today when I order a new car


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Itsme:

    … and order it without going to a dealership …

    This will be the future. I read a study about young people in Germany. There is a growing group of them which is already afraid to have physical contact with the bank or an insurance.

    Probably in 10 or 20 years this group will become much bigger and they don’t even want to have contact with any dealership.If I am honest I don’t see any advantage to visit my clueless Porsche dealer today when I order a new car

    Smiley Smiley

    The question is: Where do you go when you have issues with the car? Do you drive from Munich to Stuttgart? Smiley

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    RC:
    Itsme:

    … and order it without going to a dealership …

    This will be the future. I read a study about young people in Germany. There is a growing group of them which is already afraid to have physical contact with the bank or an insurance.

    Probably in 10 or 20 years this group will become much bigger and they don’t even want to have contact with any dealership.If I am honest I don’t see any advantage to visit my clueless Porsche dealer today when I order a new car

    Smiley Smiley

    The question is: Where do you go when you have issues with the car? Do you drive from Munich to Stuttgart? Smiley

     

    Tesla have an interesting answer to this too. They have Tesla Rangers that come to your home or place of business to service or address issues with the car. IF they need to take the car they give you a loaner that frequently is a top spec car and not a striped out base model.


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Interest article re the reliability issues with Tesla. 97% of owners would buy another one!

    http://www.techinsider.io/consumer-reports-data-reveals-tesla-model-s-reliability-issues-2015-10
    --

     

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    KresoF1:
    Atzporsche:

    Drive a Model S and you'll never go back. It's an amazing machine. I can't wait for the Model 3 and will seriously consider it! 

    In current state of Tesla cars development totally disagree.

    If I after four test drives of various Tesla S models (S85 D included) decide to replace my BMW M550d X drive Touring with it I would consider enormous change in my personal character. From perosn who value drive dynamics and overall engagement to person who do not like any drive dynamics at all. Tesla S is drive dynamics wise Citröen CX of modern times. 

    Where did you find a Tesla dealer in Croatia? Also there is no power charger in Croatia. 


    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Buying a car and maintenance are two different things.

    I would like to buy the car online and get the car in Stuttgart. For maintenance I only need a website where I can make an appointment and someone is visiting me to get the car. If all issues are solved somebody will return the car. I don’t need those shiny expensive showrooms with the typical average sales person.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    The next dealer for Croatian customers is in Austria (Graz I think...).

    There is however one Supercharger station in Croatia.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Itsme:

    Buying a car and maintenance are two different things.

    I would like to buy the car online and get the car in Stuttgart. For maintenance I only need a website where I can make an appointment and someone is visiting me to get the car. If all issues are solved somebody will return the car. I don’t need those shiny expensive showrooms with the typical average sales person.

    I would hate that. I need to talk to the person working on my car and I also need to trust him (I have serious trust issues when it comes to car mechanics, for various reasons).

    I like showrooms and dealerships, especially if they treat you right. I do not care about the knowledge of sales persons because they are doing what they are doing as a job, not as a hobby. We all know that we car nuts usually know much more about certain car models than your regular sales person.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    The nerds shall inherit the earth. 

    Given the incremental nature of software development - Musk's similar approach to cars will accelerate improvements significantly over traditional car manufactures - generally, if you purchase a MY16 car - you know it'll be broadly similar in 9 months - with agile methodologies employed by Tesla who knows what you'd find 9 months. This has obvious implications on the used market (where traditional technical debt is eliminated in the compute world).

    Running costs of old Tesla's will become prohibitive forcing premature scrapping - basically this car is white-goods. A consumable device if you will.


    --

    991 Carrera Black\Black, XC90 Black\Black, 120 Cab Black\Coral Red - 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    The DD car is quickly becoming like an iPhone. It will always have some value in its raw materials but the depreciation curve will be greatly accelerated. Having said that its not that unusual for hardware and software to run for 20 years + in the corp work. Having said that CapEx in the corp work is usually depreciated over 3-5years. Not the normal term for a consumer depreciation curve.


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2014 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab 2014 BMW i3 2017 Porsche Mission E on order


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    EnglishManInNY:

    Tesla have an interesting answer to this too. They have Tesla Rangers that come to your home or place of business to service or address issues with the car. IF they need to take the car they give you a loaner that frequently is a top spec car and not a striped out base model.

    Are they dressed like this?


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    RC:

    The next dealer for Croatian customers is in Austria (Graz I think...).

    There is however one Supercharger station in Croatia.

     

    Adnan know situation in Zagreb very well or maybe not?

    http://www.croatiaweek.com/zagreb-gets-more-electric-car-friendly-free-charging-now-at-5-parking-garages/

    http://www.citycenterone.hr/en/zagreb-east/news/Charge-your-electric-car-in-City-Center-one-east/

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tesla-Club-Croatia/583381478422415


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Volkswagen, even its current state, has significantly more resources available than Tesla to develop EVs.  The same holds true for General Motors, Ford, Toyota, and most of the other major automakers, FCA excluded.  Toyota has publicly stated that pure EVs are not the technology map it will follow.  Instead, Toyota is making a significant investment in hydrogen as a more suitable carrier of energy than a large battery pack.  

    BMW has made a sizable investment in EVs  and it has yet to pay off for the firm; however, some of the developmental costs were in lightweight carbon fiber materials and that technology is transferable to other products.  Volkswagen, through Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche, are making investments in EVs, battery technology and hydrogen fuel cells.  Fortunately, Volkswagen made investments before the current diesel emission issues so the company has gathered the appropriate knowledge in EVs.  It is putting that knowledge to work in the Audi Q6 and in the Volkswagen Phaeton, along with the Porsche EV.  

    One probably that will exist for at least a decade, is the slower technology growth rates of the batteries.  Battery improvements involve chemistry, not solid state physics, so the technology growth curves are not the equivalent of microprocessors, which follows Moore's Law.  With Moore's Law, processing power basically doubles, on average, every 24 months.  Given this restraint, even future battery storage capabilities will mean that the battery packs will remain quite large, and thus, more appropriate for large sedans and SUVs; otherwise, range will suffer.  


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    sfo:

    many electric car owners conveniently forget or deliberately ignore the CO2 produced when the electricity is generated

    and they do the same re:all the nasty toxic stuff in the batteries, which will require safe disposal in future

    Guys, you do realize that the power is massively over produced to feed the "grid" at peak capacity.. No nuclear plants have been built to run a Tesla Smiley It is still (until it becomes mass market) pretty much charging freely available electricity that would otherwise have been lost. That is btw valid for at least another 5+ years. 

    The new batteries that Tesla is building are actually landfill safe believe it or not. The more you know. 

    I used to hate the whole EV idea, but it's the future period. It just so much more efficient than petrol burning (90% versus 20% or so) and the possibilities are endless. The Model S looks great, is a technological marvel and super spacious while fucking fast! A 500km range is possible with ease and it beats pretty much anything off the line. 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    I will seriously consider a Model 3 in a few years. At a 35k price it's gonna be mass market and at the very least a big wake up call to the traditional car makers. Porsche is smart and trying to get ahead of the big learning curve faced. The Mission E, to bring this back to topic, is a great alternative and a wise lineup to bring to the showrooms. 


    --

    1991 BMW 535i Granitsilber/White Leather

    Ex: '91 BMW 318i, '89 BMW 525i, '74 Mercedes-Benz 280E, '87 BMW 325is, '86 BMW 325e, '05 Ford Focus ZX4 S, '85.5 Porsche 944

    
    

    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/216079-teslas-upgraded-autopilot-ships-with-this-weeks-version-7-software-upgrade

    I see many Tesla at work (along with any other type of EV cars).  Job hazard in the Movie biz.

    They all plug in for free and charge all day - how long can that last? But for now why would anyone care where the magic juice comes from - it is friggin free to those who plug in. Brilliant - why didn't I think of this.

     

     


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    KresoF1:
    RC:

    The next dealer for Croatian customers is in Austria (Graz I think...).

    There is however one Supercharger station in Croatia.

     

    Adnan know situation in Zagreb very well or maybe not?

    http://www.croatiaweek.com/zagreb-gets-more-electric-car-friendly-free-charging-now-at-5-parking-garages/

    http://www.citycenterone.hr/en/zagreb-east/news/Charge-your-electric-car-in-City-Center-one-east/

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tesla-Club-Croatia/583381478422415

    Kreso, he knows the situation, this is why he asked. Normal charging stations for electric cars won't help much with a  Tesla S85. You need a supercharger station, otherwise good luck with the waiting time (not even sure if normal charging stations are compatible). Also, there is no Tesla dealership or showroom in Croatia.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    He knows the situation? He lives where? In Pforzheim? And Zagreb is a village near Pforzheim?

    Local Tesla owners that I know personally bought their cars from various dealerships in EU. There are around 15 Teslas currently in streets of Zagreb, all Croatian licence plates.

    Did I wrote or claim that there is Tesla showroom in Zagreb? No.

    Did Adnan wrote that there is no power charger in Croatia? Yes.

    Since animosity toward me from some members and moderators here is becoming little bit too much for my too sensitive soul() I will withdraw myself from further posting. This time for indefinite period of time. I will continue to read rennteam and wish you all the best in your future rennteam 3 ventures.


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    KresoF1:

    He knows the situation? He lives where? In Pforzheim? And Zagreb is a village near Pforzheim?

    Local Tesla owners that I know personally bought their cars from various dealerships in EU. There are around 15 Teslas currently in streets of Zagreb, all Croatian licence plates.

    Did I wrote or claim that there is Tesla showroom in Zagreb? No.

    Did Adnan wrote that there is no power charger in Croatia? Yes.

    Since animosity toward me from some members and moderators here is becoming little bit too much for my too sensitive soul() I will withdraw myself from further posting. This time for indefinite period of time. I will continue to read rennteam and wish you all the best in your future rennteam 3 ventures.

    C'mon, why so touchy? 

    I already confirmed that there is a Supercharger in Croatia, so whats the big deal?

    You know that discussions here can get heated from time to time and then, like friends, we just forget about it and move on. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    The name Tesla always brings debates, whether this refers to Nikola Tesla or to Tesla Motors yes
     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    KresoF1:

    He knows the situation? He lives where? In Pforzheim? And Zagreb is a village near Pforzheim?

    Local Tesla owners that I know personally bought their cars from various dealerships in EU. There are around 15 Teslas currently in streets of Zagreb, all Croatian licence plates.

    Did I wrote or claim that there is Tesla showroom in Zagreb? No.

    Did Adnan wrote that there is no power charger in Croatia? Yes.

    Since animosity toward me from some members and moderators here is becoming little bit too much for my too sensitive soul() I will withdraw myself from further posting. This time for indefinite period of time. I will continue to read rennteam and wish you all the best in your future rennteam 3 ventures.

    Kreso,

    take it easy. We discuss sometime hard, we have sometimes different opinions, we disagree sometimes. We like to get some very fresh informations you provide here. So let´s stay friends.

    Btw, my second home is Croatia. It is not Zagreb but Split and Hvar. I do travel a lot to Zagreb and from their to Split and to Hvar. So maybe we can meet and drink some beer. Maybe in spring, I plan a tour with my GT3 RS, maybe you can join me for a few miles.

    Smiley


    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Sounds great, Adnan! kiss wink


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    ALDO:
    KresoF1:

    He knows the situation? He lives where? In Pforzheim? And Zagreb is a village near Pforzheim?

    Local Tesla owners that I know personally bought their cars from various dealerships in EU. There are around 15 Teslas currently in streets of Zagreb, all Croatian licence plates.

    Did I wrote or claim that there is Tesla showroom in Zagreb? No.

    Did Adnan wrote that there is no power charger in Croatia? Yes.

    Since animosity toward me from some members and moderators here is becoming little bit too much for my too sensitive soul() I will withdraw myself from further posting. This time for indefinite period of time. I will continue to read rennteam and wish you all the best in your future rennteam 3 ventures.

    Kreso,

    take it easy. We discuss sometime hard, we have sometimes different opinions, we disagree sometimes. We like to get some very fresh informations you provide here. So let´s stay friends.

    Btw, my second home is Croatia. It is not Zagreb but Split and Hvar. I do travel a lot to Zagreb and from their to Split and to Hvar. So maybe we can meet and drink some beer. Maybe in spring, I plan a tour with my GT3 RS, maybe you can join me for a few miles.

    Smiley

    Adnan,

    everything is fine. I overreacted little bit. 

    Smiley

    Btw, here is Zagreb we have die hard Tesla fans/owners. If you say I single word against Tesla their reaction is faster then bad Dirrhaea...Smiley And they especially hate Porsche owners. 

    I will for most likely the third time congrat you for 991 GT3 RS. An epic sportscar!Smiley

    You will enjoy it as high as possible. Spring tour on Dalmatia costal roads sounds like a excellent proposal. Will try to join you with my car. Some nice meal in Pelegrini in Sibenik is on my cost! If you accept?

    In our native words:

    Malo me prebacilo. Nadam se da ste ti i familija dobro?

    Sve najbolje,

    Kreso


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    Pellegrini in Sibenik is nice. Thanks for the invitation .

    I prefer also traditional konobas. My favorite is in Split  http://www.konobamatejuska.hr. Their I have never asked for the card.


    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


    Re: World premiere for Porsche Mission E

    ALDO:

    Pellegrini in Sibenik is nice. Thanks for the invitation .

    I prefer also traditional konobas. My favorite is in Split  http://www.konobamatejuska.hr. Their I have never asked for the card.

    Pelegrini is IMHO the best restourant on eastern Adriatic coast from Trieste till Ulcinj.

    Split restourant scene is excellent lately, quite possibly even better then Zagreb restourant scene. I was eating in Matejuska, very nice and rustic.


     
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