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    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    We were given a run through the new 4WD system, the 3rd generation magnaride damping system and the new way of achieving torque vectoring to individual wheels along with the already published stats.

    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    ISUK:
    Ferro is a slightly darker shade of grey with more metal flakes in it l think. It looks far nicer than Titanio IMHO which can look slightly washed out.

    Thank you Smiley


    --

    ONUR

    11 M3 Coupe AW

    09 Audi TTS Coupe - 07 997 Carrera S - 05 M3 Coupe - 03 M3 Coupe - 96 M3 Coupe EVO (PASS TIME HISTORY)

     


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    Looks like it will be an amazing car. Will be hard to choose between this and a California whenever the time comes...

    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    SciFrog:
    Looks like it will be an amazing car. Will be hard to choose between this and a California whenever the time comes...

     IMO its not really a comparison since they are very different in terms of space and overall focus. The Cali is more of a cruiser, comfortable but not really suited to comfortably sit 4 people for long periods of time. While the FF is intended to keep the 4 very comfortable with a lot of luggage for long periods of time. 

    I'm glad to hear the positive review from Iain, thanks man. I was very dissapointed with the first few leaked shots, but I'll trust the opinions of the only one that has seen it and give it a chance until I get to see one in the flesh. 


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    Happy to help. If you all still hate it after Geneva then I will expect an online roasting. I may disappear for a few weeks towards the middle of March


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    ISUK:

    Just got back from my trip to the factory to have a private viewing of the FF. It's stunning in the metal and the pic's seen thus far of it really fail to convey the great proportions and lovely styling details on this car. The tech under the skin is very impressive and the performance stats are incredible. We had a briefing by one of the engineers fresponsible for developing the FF and it really has been designed first and foremost as a drivers car and they have used many parameters from the 599 as a benchmark for it.

    The frontal styling is the best resolved design I've seen from Ferrari in a number of years. The lights do not look anything like the 458 in person. They have a very subtle curvature in the glass that follows the crease line from the wing top and flows into the corner of the front bumper. You simply don't see this in the pics posted thus far. The rear looks great and far more sculpted than the pic's convey and there is a lot of aero trickery going on there.

    I'd strongly suggest that before you make up your mind on this car you reserve your final judgement until you see one in the metal and can sit in it. You may be in for a pleasant surprise. It has real presence from the front with a very wide and low stance.

    The interior is lovely especially when trimmed with the new annaline leather which looks extremely luxurious. I'm 6'1" and could sit comfortably in the rear with a 5'10" driver in front. There was acres of room but nor did I feel at all cramped. The designers have paid lots of attention to the detailing on the interior.

    I fear I may succumb to buying one after all

     

    Thanks for the insightful review - since you're a man of very good taste, I take your seal off approval as a very good sign Smiley

    Since you're clearly thinking of purchasing one Smiley which interior and exterior colour would you opt for?


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    I'm not too sure about the looks (kinda reminds me of a pokemon), but at least it sounds like a ferrari should.


     

     


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    One more thing. Did anyone else notice how heavy this car is ? Dry weight 1800 kilograms, that means with driver and fluids, well above 1900 kg. Considering this, I don't think it will be much of a "driver's car". Especially with the stupid AWD system.

    Also, the new V12 seems underpowered. 4 cilinders more, but only 100 bhp more than the 458 Italia's V8. The Italia has 127 bhp/liter this has only 106 bhp/liter ! I know that that it isn't possible to get the same ratio with bigger engines, but still, I expected ferrari would achieve a much better figure than this, and get well past the 700 bhp mark in the process. Maybe the 599's succesor (the 626) will be more powerfull though.


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    zmeulzmeilor:

    One more thing. This thing is very heavy. Dry weight 1800 kilograms, curb 1900. Considering this, I don't think adding the AWD system was a good ideea.

    Also, the new V12 seems underpowered. 4 cilinders more, but only 100 bhp more than the 458 Italia's V8. The Italia has 127 bhp/liter this has only 106 bhp/liter ! I know that that it isn't possible to achieve the same ratio with bigger engines, but still, I expected ferrari would achieve a much better figure than this, and get well past the 700 bhp mark in the process.

    Of course it's possible to equal, or better the 127 bhp/litre mark of the 458 with a big V12! The FXX Evoluzione, which basically uses that very same V12, has a specific output of more than 135 bhp/litre! The FF though is a GT car, not a supersports model, hence 660 BHP is more than enough! Why get past the 700 mark? That is the job of the 599 replacement, which will be a supersports model.


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    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    REALZEUS:
    zmeulzmeilor:

    One more thing. This thing is very heavy. Dry weight 1800 kilograms, curb 1900. Considering this, I don't think adding the AWD system was a good ideea.

    Also, the new V12 seems underpowered. 4 cilinders more, but only 100 bhp more than the 458 Italia's V8. The Italia has 127 bhp/liter this has only 106 bhp/liter ! I know that that it isn't possible to achieve the same ratio with bigger engines, but still, I expected ferrari would achieve a much better figure than this, and get well past the 700 bhp mark in the process.

    Of course it's possible to equal, or better the 127 bhp/litre mark of the 458 with a big V12! The FXX Evoluzione, which basically uses that very same V12, has a specific output of more than 135 bhp/litre! The FF though is a GT car, not a supersports model, hence 660 BHP is more than enough! Why get past the 700 mark? That is the job of the 599 replacement, which will be a supersports model.

    As far as I know the FXX Evoluzione uses a bored-up version of the Enzo's V12. This new V12 is based on the Italia's direct-injection V8. And you're comparing a 2.7 million dollar development car with a production car that costs about 2.5 million dollar less.


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    Just made a quick calculation, if the new 626 gets the same power/liter as the 458, it will develop no more no less than 787 bhp Smiley But of course like I said I don't think it's possible to maintain that ratio with a V12, especially for a mass-production car Smiley


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    zmeulzmeilor:

    Smiley But of course like I said I don't think it's possible to maintain that ratio with a V12

     

    And you would be totally wrong. Smiley


    --
    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    zmeulzmeilor:

    One more thing. Did anyone else notice how heavy this car is ? Dry weight 1800 kilograms, that means with driver and fluids, well above 1900 kg. Considering this, I don't think it will be much of a "driver's car". Especially with the stupid AWD system.

    Also, the new V12 seems underpowered. 4 cilinders more, but only 100 bhp more than the 458 Italia's V8. The Italia has 127 bhp/liter this has only 106 bhp/liter ! I know that that it isn't possible to get the same ratio with bigger engines, but still, I expected ferrari would achieve a much better figure than this, and get well past the 700 bhp mark in the process. Maybe the 599's succesor (the 626) will be more powerfull though.

     

    How can a revolutionary new 4 wheel drive system that leaves the car in rear wheel drive unless it detects a need to direct power to the front wheels to assist with traction be described as stupid?? Smiley   It's precisely because of this new system, which works completely unlike any AWD system previously seen by taking power  from the front of the engine and using a series of clutches to feed it to either front wheel, that this car achieves the astonishing performance figures of 0-62 in 3.7 seconds and a top speed of 209 MPH. It is faster than the original Gallardo Superleggera which is a pared down, mid engined 2 seat car whereas the FF is a front engined, 4 seat GT car.

    Be under no illusion that Ferrari have set this car up to be anything other than a drivers car.


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    ISUK, as much as such a system may befit a big GT car, I see it as improbable that it will filter to the supersports models of the marque. After all, RWD is superior in good weather conditions and Ferraris need to maintain that edge. Even Porsche (a 4WD stalwart), built their RS models as RWD only!


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    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    I disagree. I think we may well see future models offer this innovative system as an advanced driver aid as there is not a substantial weight penalty involved. You have to change your mindset on AWD as this system is unlike any other on the market. I'll be surprised if the 599 replacement doesn't incorporate this system either as standard or as an option.

    Here is a run down of the new 4WD system by Paul Horrell of TopGear magazine -

    "Can a car have 4WD for security, but still drive like a Ferrari? Can even Ferrari manage that?

    Well, the FF doesn't actually have a normal heavy 4WD system with a centre diff and an extra prop shaft. It has a normal Ferrari configuration, with the drive going from the V12 back to a seven-speed twin-clutch gearbox driving the rear wheels. This is good for weight distribution, and in the dry the FF is as fast around a track as a 599 (it's only a little heavier, yet usefully more powerful). Felisa (Ferrari CEO) swears it feels like a proper front-engined RWD V12 Ferrari, too. And he has spoken the truth to me in these matters all the 16 years I've been interviewing him.

    So what about the four-wheel drive, then? Uniquely, power is also taken off the front of the engine, which is behind the front wheel centres. It's fed to a compact lightweight unit containing a set of clutches that can progressively feed in torque to a tiny integrated gearbox and front diff. It has only two gears, roughly the equivalent of third and seventh in the main box. How can this be? Because the clutches are always slipping under electronic control, and the front tyres would never be able to make use of all the V12's torque in first or second.

    What this means is the car's electronics can smoothly dial up a portion of drive to the fronts if they predict a loss of traction at the back. Yes, they're predictive as well as reactive. And they only do this in the road and slippery-road settings of the steering-wheel manettino. In the more hardcore modes, you can still run it as pretty well entirely rear-drive."

    The full article can be found here www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/ferrari-ff-2011-01-25


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    It's a good thing that in the Race setting and above the system shuts down, which indicates to me that it's good for low grip driving but not track days; otherwise it would be always on. As hardcore Ferraris are frequently driven with gusto and in fair weather and trackdays, such a system would only add weight (even a small amount but still) and detract from steering feel. What I am trying to say is that I can't see it featuring in the next Enzo or 458 Scuderia.


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    FERRARI RULES!!!

    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    ISUK:

    I disagree. I think we may well see future models offer this innovative system as an advanced driver aid as there is not a substantial weight penalty involved. You have to change your mindset on AWD as this system is unlike any other on the market. I'll be surprised if the 599 replacement doesn't incorporate this system either as standard or as an option.


    If it's not permanent all-wheel drive then I guess it's an ok system, especially for launch control :) And what is the weight penalty, exactly ? 50 kilos ? 75 kilos ? 


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    ISUK:

     

     this car achieves the astonishing performance figures of 0-62 in 3.7 seconds and a top speed of 209 MPH. It is faster than the original Gallardo Superleggera which is a pared down, mid engined 2 seat car whereas the FF is a front engined, 4 seat GT car.

    Be under no illusion that Ferrari have set this car up to be anything other than a drivers car.


    Sorry ISUK but 0-100kph in 3,7 is no longer consider fast , a "cheap" 997 GTS with 250hp less can make it in 4,1 sec Smiley, and Gallardo makes it in less than 3,5 according to several magazines.

    J.Seven


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

     ok but there is no  4 seater that I know that achieve this , you have to take one of the fastes supercar like gallardo or other faster to be under 3,7 , so I will say it is extremly fast for being a gt , and very fast for being a sport car.


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    993 c2


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    The FF 4wd system is brilliant and it looks miles better than a Panamera Turbo.

    Whats not to like about a 2dr genuine 4 seater that can do 300kph?

    It is a spectacular piece of automotive engineering.

     

     

     


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    J.Seven, The very fact that a 4 seat GT car can achieve the performance stats that are close to the stripped out Scuderia and the Superleggera is incredible in my book. This car is significantly heavier than both those models yet will carry 4 people and luggage.

    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    All these on paper superlatives remain to be seen on the roads and over time.

    However, i appreciate Ferrari's valiant effort to bring out products with more a  favourable and realistic "substance-to-show" ratio. An effort that started with the California model which opened up Ferrari ownership to more people.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    zmeulzmeilor:

    One more thing. Did anyone else notice how heavy this car is ? Dry weight 1800 kilograms, that means with driver and fluids, well above 1900 kg. Considering this, I don't think it will be much of a "driver's car". Especially with the stupid AWD system.

    Also, the new V12 seems underpowered. 4 cilinders more, but only 100 bhp more than the 458 Italia's V8. The Italia has 127 bhp/liter this has only 106 bhp/liter ! I know that that it isn't possible to get the same ratio with bigger engines, but still, I expected ferrari would achieve a much better figure than this, and get well past the 700 bhp mark in the process. Maybe the 599's succesor (the 626) will be more powerfull though.


    The FF weighs as much as the outgoing 612 Scaglietti. No progress here. Smiley
     


    --

    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    ISUK:
    J.Seven, The very fact that a 4 seat GT car can achieve the performance stats that are close to the stripped out Scuderia and the Superleggera is incredible in my book. This car is significantly heavier than both those models yet will carry 4 people and luggage.

    +1.   I see this very much in the spirit (even a bit in the styling) of the Lamborghini Espada of the 70's - 4 seats with styling more towards the outrageous than the ordinary.    Speaking of which, wonder whether Lambo will watch the FF results and bring out their equivalent?  Son of Estoque? 
     

     


    --

    2010 Audi S5,  2009 Porsche 911S


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    ISUK:
    J.Seven, The very fact that a 4 seat GT car can achieve the performance stats that are close to the stripped out Scuderia and the Superleggera is incredible in my book. This car is significantly heavier than both those models yet will carry 4 people and luggage.


    ISUK, of course the car is fast as hell, I was just kidding with you, how come 3,7sec to 100kph not be fast Smiley

    J.Seven


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    J.Seven:


    ISUK, of course the car is fast as hell, I was just kidding with you, how come 3,7sec to 100kph not be fast Smiley

    J.Seven

     

    I did wonder if you were pulling my leg Smiley


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    4trac:
    Speaking of which, wonder whether Lambo will watch the FF results and bring out their equivalent?  Son of Estoque?  

     

     

     They will build Estoque. Smiley

     

    http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1053844_report-audi-backs-development-of-new-a9-flagship-and-lamborghini-estoque

     


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    ISUK:

    The base price is going to be around £213k I believe.


    Thank you for your insightful comments

     Does the price you quote include UK VAT, if so this car is going to be less expensive than the 612. Generally in the US folks are disparaging the car. I am quite excited by it. As you know dealer 458 allocations in US at least are governed by how many V-12 are ordered so net result is 2010 HGTE's with nominal mileage at $100k under MSRP. Will the same thing happen with the FF ?  Like you I am on the list., US launch fall 2011.

    Porsche Panamera Turbo's here are often spec'ed to $180K and flying out of dealerships. If  the FF comes in at $255K base it will atract a lot of attention. For comparison the 458 is $225K base. Many were surprised by that competitive figure.. 

     


    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

    The £213k figure l was given includes VAT. There is no "official" confirmation of the price as yet though.

    Re: Ferrari estate breaks with tradition

     New pictures from EVO  - lookng better and better. i wonder if this is a new FF specific colour or Rosso Fuoco?

    car_photo_422488_25.jpg

     


     
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