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    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    WAY said:
    I know most of you aren't fans of Nissan GTR. But rumours has it that the GTR EVO is going to blow all these times we have seen here. Low 7:40's is what was mentioned. Don't know how true. But apparently even the "base" GTR will be in the 7:50's. So while the R8 is the current darling of the press, it isn't going to stay that way for long.



    With the skyline's traditionally portly weight, I don't really see that happening

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    AUTOMOVIL (Spanish magazine)
    INTA circuit:
    Audi R8----------------------1'11'47
    Porsche 911 Turbo -----------1'12'08 (tested in feb 07)
    Porsche 911 Carrera 4S------1'13'18
    Dodge Viper SRT10 -----------1'13'19 (tested in feb 07)
    Aston Martin V8--------------1'14'19
    Jaguar XKR--------------------1'15'16 (tested in feb 07)

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    Enzo911 said:
    AUTOMOVIL (Spanish magazine)
    INTA circuit:
    Audi R8----------------------1'11'47
    Porsche 911 Turbo -----------1'12'08 (tested in feb 07)
    Porsche 911 Carrera 4S------1'13'18
    Dodge Viper SRT10 -----------1'13'19 (tested in feb 07)
    Aston Martin V8--------------1'14'19
    Jaguar XKR--------------------1'15'16 (tested in feb 07)



    Thank you for posting this results!
    I heard about them and they are in EVO fashion IMO. So, it seems to me that my findings that something was not right with Sport Auto R8 could be the truth

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    I stick to my initial assertion that it takes a very very good driver to extract the best out of the twitchier cars (997TT, F430) at the limit while it takes only a very competent driver to drive an R8 hard.

    As a result, a lot of these non-top-grade car mags are getting really good results with the r8.

    This is not necessarily a terrible thing...Most of us, imo, would be faster in a R8...

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    Enzo911 said:
    AUTOMOVIL (Spanish magazine)
    INTA circuit:
    Audi R8----------------------1'11'47 Pilot Sport
    Porsche 911 Turbo -----------1'12'08 (tested in feb 07)
    Porsche 911 Carrera 4S------1'13'18 Pilot Sport
    Dodge Viper SRT10 -----------1'13'19 (tested in feb 07)
    Aston Martin V8--------------1'14'19 Corsa's
    Jaguar XKR--------------------1'15'16 (tested in feb 07)




    Tires

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    I agree with all three of your posts!
    Article is very interesting and some claims by von Saurma in it seems to be the truth.

    When I wrote sometime ago that on my test drive R8 did not feel any faster then RS4 some people call me crazy...
    R8 is still without a doubt great car but, it will never be as fast as Gallardo...




    It simply shows, that your impressions seem to be worth a bit!

    As much as I would like to believe the fact, that the R8 had a "weak" engine, I do not think that it would be able to improve significantly. All recently tested R8s posted similiar acceleration times so I don't think that it is due to the engine output. However, I don't expect Audi to provide an underperforming car to such a significant test - they have run endless numbers on the Nürburgring, with the R 8 as much as with the upcoming V10 version. I am pretty sure that the provided car is the one most appropriate for the SportAuto test. I will be curious to see the first valuable comparison between the two suspension options though.

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    He also mentions that the suspension setup is too soft for the track



    That's true, had to re-read the article in silence. I find it worth mentioning that he believes the car to be even better with only a few adjustments!

    As always, the suspension is one of the very crucial elements on a track. If you leave a certain margin to the limit, no matter if it is on the street or on a track, where the true character of the car will show up much more easily, those reactions won't be likely to appear. It leaves us with the question, if some people, even automotive journalists, drive the car up to a performance level that the majority of users can attain and therefore appear sufficient with their vehicle's impressions.

    I remember the critics about the Mini Cooper a couple of years ago, which was widely admired for its handling characteristics. SportAuto and a few users on this board reported differently, that the car is lacking some ingredients for the more committed driver. Same thing seems to be going on with the R8 - the car is far more than most people expect from this car, so they won't even bother about von Saurmas impression.

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Well, I re-read all latest Sport Auto Supertests and something started to bother me... I even called my friend who works for Motorpresse and he told me some things...

    Something was clearly wrong with Sport Auto R8 test car since other(ice silver) example achieved better metrics when measured by sister AMS mag...

    Example No.1 in Sport Auto test R8(brilliant red) achieved only 132km/h in Auswecihtest 110m and silver R8 example at AMS achieved on ISO-Wedelgasse(very similar test to Ausweichtest 110m) 149,4km/h!! Difference is very big indeed since silver car was with Magnetic Ride and normal Pirelli Hero tires...

    Example No.2 On the Ring RS4 achieved top speed on Doettinger Hoehe(top speed check point on the Ring) of 262km/h, R8 achieved only 254km/h!! I made some calculation on sector times and if R8 top speed were the same 262km/h final lap time would be around 8.00-7.59min.... Much close to what we all expected!

    Apparently this red R8 did not delivered all 420hp... But, blame is on Audi only, not on Sport Auto stuff.


    Kreso re-read the explanation for why the R8 acheived such a slow maz speed on the ring. It was because of its poor drag coeficient compared to RS4.

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    trip said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Well, I re-read all latest Sport Auto Supertests and something started to bother me... I even called my friend who works for Motorpresse and he told me some things...

    Something was clearly wrong with Sport Auto R8 test car since other(ice silver) example achieved better metrics when measured by sister AMS mag...

    Example No.1 in Sport Auto test R8(brilliant red) achieved only 132km/h in Auswecihtest 110m and silver R8 example at AMS achieved on ISO-Wedelgasse(very similar test to Ausweichtest 110m) 149,4km/h!! Difference is very big indeed since silver car was with Magnetic Ride and normal Pirelli Hero tires...

    Example No.2 On the Ring RS4 achieved top speed on Doettinger Hoehe(top speed check point on the Ring) of 262km/h, R8 achieved only 254km/h!! I made some calculation on sector times and if R8 top speed were the same 262km/h final lap time would be around 8.00-7.59min.... Much close to what we all expected!

    Apparently this red R8 did not delivered all 420hp... But, blame is on Audi only, not on Sport Auto stuff.


    Kreso re-read the explanation for why the R8 acheived such a slow maz speed on the ring. It was because of its poor drag coeficient compared to RS4.



    Trip,
    Did you read the complete Supertest of R8 NO Ok, then it explains this kind of answer from you...
    R8 aerodynamics was actually pretty good. Low top speed on Doettinger Hoehe means low power.
    Simply said-you are wrong as possible.

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Take it easy Kreso, it is funny how defensive of the R8 you are. When the first tests showed it was faster than the 997tt you would not accept any critisism of the numbers and blamed all doubters to be porshein now that it is seen that the 997tt is actually faster around the ring you are trying to find excuses yourself. Even you said the R8 didn't feel any faster than an RS4. Maybe the car is not as amazing as first believed. Maybe the silver car was hot and the red was normal. Who knows? But no, I am not "as wrong as possible."

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    trip said:
    Maybe the silver car was hot and the red was normal.



    Aren't red cars always the fastest?


    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    trip said:
    Take it easy Kreso, it is funny how defensive of the R8 you are. When the first tests showed it was faster than the 997tt you would not accept any critisism of the numbers and blamed all doubters to be porshein now that it is seen that the 997tt is actually faster around the ring you are trying to find excuses yourself. Even you said the R8 didn't feel any faster than an RS4. Maybe the car is not as amazing as first believed. Maybe the silver car was hot and the red was normal. Who knows? But no, I am not "as wrong as possible."



    Trip,
    Regarding Sport Auto Supertest you are wrong. And you did not apparently read that article at all...
    Other thing-I am not defensive regarding R8 at all. In fact I DOUBT very much in EVO track results! IMHO there is not way that R8 is faster around Bedford then Gallardo or 997TT.

    And there is a difference between us-you are PORSCHEIN addict and I am sportscars enthusiast...

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    I presume you all know this one. But it is always nice to re-read how the R8 thrashed the Porsche Turbo..:

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4217681.html?page=1

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    On the the Streets of Willow road course, of course. In acceleration the Turbo's close to unbeatable.

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    For instance I find that Popularmechanics comparison not very accurate... 997TT used in that test is TIP(and we all know that TIP version is slower then manual version with optional LSD), Vette Z06 is faster on every other track then both R8 and 997TT...
    Just my Opinion.

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    trip said:
    Maybe the silver car was hot and the red was normal.



    Aren't red cars always the fastest?





    Yes they are but, only when Horst is not driving...

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    trip said:
    Maybe the silver car was hot and the red was normal.



    Aren't red cars always the fastest?





    Only when driven by Germans who like to take pictures of their cars with trees in the background .

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    trip said:
    Maybe the silver car was hot and the red was normal.



    Aren't red cars always the fastest?





    Only when driven by Germans who like to take pictures of their cars with trees in the background .



    Hey, it wasn't me.

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    trip said:
    Maybe the silver car was hot and the red was normal.



    Aren't red cars always the fastest?





    Only when driven by Germans who like to take pictures of their cars with trees in the background .



    Hey, it wasn't me.




    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    @ KresoF1
    I read the SA article as well and I've read the same "conclusio" for beeing slower on Döttinger Höhe with the R8 than with the RS4...it's also about the aerodynamics!
    And furthermore the SA test shows how different the "same" cars can be...
    IMHO the R8 is a very sporty looking GT, not a "real" sportscar as a Gallardo or a GT3...

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    I agree with you. R8 is some kind of synergy between real sportscar and sporty GT.

    Let's see what will Lamborghini show us in Geneva 2008. I hope that we will see updated Gallardo.

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    I still believe that Audi does not want to cause further distress to their Gallardo customers. Why would they otherwise supply a car to Sport Auto that has all the bells and whistles (all the costly extras that do not have any impact on the car's performance) but does not include the rather cheap magnetic ride feature...? Because the Nürburgerring is a bumpy ride and the magdampers are counterproductive. If this is the case and you find out during the ride you just flick the switch from "sport" to "comfort"...

    Rather [beep] off R8 customers who already made down payments than Gallardo customers..

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Let's see what will Lamborghini show us in Geneva 2008. I hope that we will see updated Gallardo.



    @ KresoF1: I hope they gonna change something on the steering ratio and adapt it to the steering diameter of the R8, when you've been driving both cars, you have to admit, that the Gallardo has a to wide turning circle

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    Lord_Driftalot said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Let's see what will Lamborghini show us in Geneva 2008. I hope that we will see updated Gallardo.



    @ KresoF1: I hope they gonna change something on the steering ratio and adapt it to the steering diameter of the R8, when you've been driving both cars, you have to admit, that the Gallardo has a to wide turning circle



    Yes, it has.
    But, I would like to see some interior improvements as well. Exterior design-better not to change anything!

    BTW, did you had a chance to try Ceramic Brakes on Gallardo? They suck big time IMHO. At first there is no response for first cm or so then they bite as hard as possible... Very hard to modulate...
    Also Gallardo needs standard brakes from R8, they are also much better then Gallardo's.

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Something was clearly wrong with Sport Auto R8 test car since other(ice silver) example achieved better metrics when measured by sister AMS mag...

    Example No.1 in Sport Auto test R8(brilliant red) achieved only 132km/h in Auswecihtest 110m and silver R8 example at AMS achieved on ISO-Wedelgasse(very similar test to Ausweichtest 110m) 149,4km/h!! Difference is very big indeed since silver car was with Magnetic Ride and normal Pirelli Hero tires...





    Sportauto conducts this test with ESP off, AMS tests with ESP on (HvS actually mentions this in the Supertest article). It is mentioned that R8 is faster to drive with ESP "on" due to a nervous rear at the limit which only can be mastered by very fast counter-steering (which may be fun, but doesn't make you fast of course).

    As for your assumption that the Sportauto R8 may have suffered from a lack of horses: do the accelaration tests / topspeed tests (Sportauto vs. AMS) vary significantly ? (I don't have the AMS test at hand).

    As per my understanding (after reading the Supertest) the somewhat unexpected NoS-Laptime is due to aerodynamics and damping.

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    The difference of 17.4km/h in speed between ESP on and off(BTW, there is so called ESP sport mode but, von Saurma did not mentioned it...?) is IMHO way tooo big!

    Other thing-aerodynamics... Yes, the Cw is 0.35 for R8 and 0.31 for RS4 but, in windchannel aerodynamic balance of R8 is far, far better then of RS4(just look at test results).
    So, IMHO aerodynamics is not responsible for not so good Ring time.
    What I can not except is that von Saurma is implying that RS4 is actually faster in 0-250km/h then R8(again, according to von Saurma aerodynamics is responsible for bad Doettinger Hoehe top speed. I expected more from him since I talked with one Ring freak and in his opinion engine power is the key element here...)!

    Let me explain this:
    -Hockenheim time R8 1.12,7min
    -Hockenheim Zielgerade top speed R8 191km/h
    -Hockenheim time RS4 1.15,4min
    -Hockenheim Zielgerade top speed RS4 187km/h

    So, since we know that R8 acceleration in 0-200km/h is 16.2s and RS4 16.9s these Hockenheim results are expected...

    -Ring time R8 8.04min
    -Ring Doettinger Hoehe top speed R8 254km/h
    -Ring Schwedenkreuz top speed R8 238km/h
    -Ring time RS4 8.09min
    -Ring Doettinger Hoehe top speed RS4 262km/h
    -Ring Schwedenkreuz top speed RS4 240km/h

    This results clearly show you that R8 example that was used by Sport Auto is slower above 200km/h then RS4.Since I do not think that difference in ambiente temperature played major role here(R8-20 degree C, RS4-13 degree C) not so good engine power of that R8 example must be a case here...

    BUT, according to Auto Bild Sportscars, EVO and one Swedish magazine R8 is actually faster then RS4 in 0-250km/h!

    Let me give you just one example:
    -R8 0-250km/h: 29.3s
    -RS4 0-250km/h: 31.9s


    Last thing that also puts benefite of the doubt on your ESP on/off discussion is the fact that EVO's amazing R8 Bedford time was also achived with ESP off.

    Re: Ringtime of the Audi R8

    @ KresoF1

    Yes, I've been driving the CCB on Gallardo (Superleggera, Coupé & Spyder), and in my opinion they ONLY fit on the LP640, as the Gallardo is such a light car and the standardbrakes are way good enough...
    It's true that the Lamborghini CCB needs some time to get working well (the first 1.000km and also about 10min of driving), but then they're VERY good!
    But the price :-(

     
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