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    991 Carrera GTS

    Anyone have an idea just when Porsche might release the carrera 2/4 in the GTS version ? If history repeats itself, it would be the next model after the GT3 RS no ?


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    Rich
    2013 Cayenne Turbo Black/Black
    2012 Mercedes ML63 Black/Black
     
     

     


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    If history repeats itself then the GTS wont be around for about 2 years. GTS is always one of the last variants before the new model comes out. Also if memory serves me well there wasn't even a 997.1 GTS, only 997.2 So if Porsche is sticking with the same time table for the current 991 model it could be a long wait for the GTS


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    You are correct, there was no 997.1 GTS.  However, judging by the timeline of the Cayenne and Panamera GTS, I would assume 991 GTS comes earlier, i.e. before facelift. yes


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    So far, I think the near future 991 timeline looks like this (don't nail me on this, this is just based on various rumors):

    991 Targa (end of 2013)

    991 GT3 RS (spring 2014)

    991 Turbo/Turbo S Cabriolet (summer 2014)

    991 GT2 (autumn/winter 2014)

    The dates are actually availability dates, not presentation dates (presentation will be earlier).

    Again...based on rumors from various sources of ours.

    Facelift? Well, currently the rumors indicate 2015 but it can't be excluded that it comes slightly earlier (end of 2014).


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    So no GTS pre facelift?


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    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    Budster:

    So no GTS pre facelift?

    I haven't heard any rumor this year about a 991 GTS, which is quite weird since I heard last year that the GTS is going to become a "regular" in the 911 pipeline. Apparently this wasn't true. So I'd expect the same GTS strategy they used with the 997...after the facelift and maybe one year before the next gen 911 hits the streets.

    Porsche doesn't really have to send out GTS test mules, they have the wider body (50th anniversary) and they have the powerkit engine, which is standard in the US/Canada. So they basically could wait until the 50th anniversary models are sold and then start with a GTS.

    To make it short: I don't have a clue, sorry. Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    That would make the current GTS even more of a rarity.  Could be good for residuals..?  

    Not that I want to sell mine - I'm still more than happy with it being probably the best all-round 911 off track..kiss

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    John H:

    That would make the current GTS even more of a rarity.  Could be good for residuals..?  

    Not that I want to sell mine - I'm still more than happy with it being probably the best all-round 911 off track..kiss

     

    I am actually sad I didn't buy my 997 Carrera GTS Cab after I returned it to the dealer (lease).

    Let me explain: The car had a new car value of close to 138k EUR. When I returned it to the dealer, the car had merely 5000 km and it was in a perfect shape. The dealer offered it for 109k EUR first. Nobody wanted to buy the car because it was missing PCM navigation and full leather. So the dealer retrofitted the PCM navigation, not cheap. So the car was basically worth over 140k EUR (new).

    He sold the car after one year in his dealer lot for...hold your breath...95k EUR.

    My wife is desperate for a Cab now, she realized how much she misses her M3 Cab. She would love a Boxster S. I played a little bit around with the Porsche configurator and came up with a price tag of around 86k EUR for a new Boxster S. For 9k EUR more, she could have had a perfect Carrera GTS Cab in pristine condition and with very low mileage.

    So yes, I am regretting not buying the Carrera GTS Cab, it was a real occasion. On the other hand, the prices for these cars have fallen a lot in Germany, you can get a low mileage (less than 20k km) Carrera 4(!) GTS Cab for under 100k EUR. The Carrera GTS Coupe is even cheaper, there are cars available for under 75k EUR. This is insane.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    Why this car has lost so much value?


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    Because the used car market is a true measure of what a car is worth.  It is what it is.The premium you are willing to pay for a new Porsche is not acceptable to the buyers of used cars.


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    Oh, and there is a newer version out.....and list price is no longer applicable worldwide (as has been the case in the US for sometime it would seem)


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    991 (what a car!) XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    I think 997's are very interesting now - a friend of mine is working on a deal for a 997 turbo S cab with 1900 km (!) on it - it's with the current owner since 20 month ! - taking over the remaining 16 month lease and remaining value would end up in less than 50% of NP........almost to good to be true.....


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    Leawood911:

    Because the used car market is a true measure of what a car is worth.  It is what it is.The premium you are willing to pay for a new Porsche is not acceptable to the buyers of used cars.

    Yip.  Simple demand and supply....


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    Porsche Carrera GTS (2012); Porsche Cayenne Diesel (2012)


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    We have a well known independent in the UK called 911virgin who seem to be doing a very brisk trade in 997 - mainly gen1 cars with <50K miles. Prices actually seem to be firming up as folks seem to realise what astonishing value these things are. Last year's £24K car is now at least £26 - £27K it would seem.


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    991 (what a car!) XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    bridggar:

    Oh, and there is a newer version out.....

    Not of the GTS variant there's not.... yet!   It's still the latest available model.. Smiley

    I find it incredible that, after almost 30 months of ownership, I've only seen two others on the road!

    Anyone know how many were sold in the UK.. or Europe?

     

     

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    John H:
    bridggar:

    Oh, and there is a newer version out.....

    Not of the GTS variant there's not.... yet!   It's still the latest available model.. Smiley

    I find it incredible that, after almost 30 months of ownership, I've only seen two others on the road!

    Anyone know how many were sold in the UK.. or Europe?

     

     

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

    In Germany, dealer used car lots are full of GTS models. There are lots of offers available, so production numbers must be quite high.

    Also, I've seen quite some interesting 991 offers too. Used cars with new price tags of over 135k EUR for under 95k EUR.


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    There now seems to be two versions of this thread... heart

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    John H:

    There now seems to be two versions of this thread... heart

     

    Yes, the software did it again... Smiley


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    John H:

    That would make the current GTS even more of a rarity.  Could be good for residuals..?  

    Just had a peek on the Porsche used car site here in the UK and the GTS seems to be holding its value amazingly well compared with any other sub GT3 version - not one under £60k Smiley

    a couple of days ago I went to the Porsche Experience Centre at Silverstone and had 90 minutes in the GT2 and GT2 RS - SWMBO's amazing birthday present to me - the instant power delivery and the way those cars "praise" for getting it right and "kick you" for getting it even slightly wrong, or not concentrating fully 100% of the time was incredible. Purely a track tool, no way would I want one for much public road use. The instructors there were excellent as always. You think you've done OK then the instructor takes you for a couple of very quick laps soon brought me down to earth! 

    Easy to see how simple it would be to get into real trouble with a GT2 if you weren't really careful - and certainly much higher skilled than myself.

    What was amazing was how well the huge Cayenne does on that tight circuit, following one round there. 


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    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    I always admire people like Markus (MKSGR) who track race their GT2 RS. This car is a weapon and should be handled with the utmost care. While the GT3 is a toy race car (in a positive way!) and really fun to drive, the GT2 RS is a constant challenge and while I would enjoy it from time to time, I don't think I would enjoy it all the time. When you need to be careful, the fun suffers, so personally, I would probably choose the GT3 instead. Same goes for the GT2, not as brutal as the GT2 RS but still, the GT3 is more (relaxed) fun in my opinion.

    The 997 GT2 RS was and still is a dream car for me and if my 991 Turbo S won't make me happy, I may even go for a GT2 RS or even "only" GT2 but still, I think the GT3 would be the better choice. I already had issues to control the turbo power/torque with AWD, so without AWD, this becomes a constant challenge as mentioned before. Not sure I am ready for that anymore at my age. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    RC:

    I always admire people like Markus (MKSGR) who track race their GT2 RS. This car is a weapon and should be handled with the utmost care. While the GT3 is a toy race car (in a positive way!) and really fun to drive, the GT2 RS is a constant challenge and while I would enjoy it from time to time, I don't think I would enjoy it all the time. When you need to be careful, the fun suffers, so personally, I would probably choose the GT3 instead. Same goes for the GT2, not as brutal as the GT2 RS but still, the GT3 is more (relaxed) fun in my opinion.

    The 997 GT2 RS was and still is a dream car for me and if my 991 Turbo S won't make me happy, I may even go for a GT2 RS or even "only" GT2 but still, I think the GT3 would be the better choice. I already had issues to control the turbo power/torque with AWD, so without AWD, this becomes a constant challenge as mentioned before. Not sure I am ready for that anymore at my age. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    It's just the first 2 gears that will make you $h*t bricks in the GT2/2RS the first time you get behind the wheels, because of it's enormous torque and cup tires, switching to PSS makes a big difference knowing traction no longer is an issue, but I may switch back to PS cups when the time comes Smiley  I want to see how bad is it going to spin with a tune and an exhaust.


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    This is why I went for 991 boggo carrera. On standard UK roads I can enjoy myself without a) losing my license b) killing myself c) killing others.

    Only gripes I have really are the crap tyres and an annoying buzz from the a-pillar which seems to have developed over the last 100 miles or so.

    Have covered a heady 1,400 miles now.


    --

    991 (what a car!) XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    RC:

    I always admire people like Markus (MKSGR) who track race their GT2 RS. This car is a weapon and should be handled with the utmost care. While the GT3 is a toy race car (in a positive way!) and really fun to drive, the GT2 RS is a constant challenge and while I would enjoy it from time to time, I don't think I would enjoy it all the time. When you need to be careful, the fun suffers, so personally, I would probably choose the GT3 instead. Same goes for the GT2, not as brutal as the GT2 RS but still, the GT3 is more (relaxed) fun in my opinion.

    The 997 GT2 RS was and still is a dream car for me and if my 991 Turbo S won't make me happy, I may even go for a GT2 RS or even "only" GT2 but still, I think the GT3 would be the better choice. I already had issues to control the turbo power/torque with AWD, so without AWD, this becomes a constant challenge as mentioned before. Not sure I am ready for that anymore at my age. Smiley

     

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)

    By the time I had finished my 90 minutes in those two cars I was exhilarated but absolutely shattered! RC - if you are too old at your age I'm definitely too old at mine!! Smiley Even though it was terrific fun and I learned a great deal - including high respect for the cars - if I could justify the purchase price I'd never buy one - my skill levels are too inadequate and I'd rather be a live coward than a dead hero Smiley

    I'll suggest to SWMBO - on your advice - that she needs to get me the 991 GT3 experience for my next birthday....Smiley

    SWMBO managed to catch this quick photo from the Experience Centre restaurant - me exhausted with the instructor climbing out of the black GT2 RS, white GT2 along side. Must buy a decent DSLR to replace our current limited compact camera.....Smiley

    1372960114339silverstone.jpg


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    Porsche 997 Carrera S PDK Aqua Blue / Black - Skoda Octavia Mk.3 daily drive


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    At a certain point in life, priorities shift. With two kids, a wife and a business, even if I may not be that old (close to 50), things change, I changed. I know what can happen, I know how expensive it can be and I just don't see the benefit anymore of experiencing the limit in certain life situations. I am not looking for adventure anymore but for a calm, satisfied and happy life without having to worry too much. So my driving has changed and I don't let myself being provoked by other drivers as easily as I did before when I was younger. Also, I drive more prudent, even if I shouldn't because it relaxes me. From time to time however, I want to push it a little bit harder, to experience boundaries but this usually happens in a somehow controlled environment (locations I know well) and in my own car I also know well.

    From time to time, I get invited and/or go to driving events and someone puts a key to a certain car into my hand and tells me to have fun with a certain car. Then, I usually drive a nice round or two and bring the car back in one piece. People are sometimes disappointed that I don't pull a Chris Harris on them (or the car)  but honestly, why should I? I want to have fun, not to try to drive at the limit in an unknown car, maybe crashing it and then having to suffer the (financial and maybe health) consequences. No thanks. During one of these events, a guy crashed a 120k EUR car, a pre-production model. He was hospitalized and while the health insurance paid all his hospital bills, he couldn't work at his business for weeks and lost a lot of money (he had no insurance and he signed a NDA/risk exclusion clause when joining the event, like all of us, so no money from the car manufacturer...no, it wasn't Porsche). Was it worth? I don' think so, so I better stay safe than sorry. 


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    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Turbo S (Sept. 2013), Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2013)


    Re: 991 Carrera GTS

    286 hp / 1,120 Nm  with 8 gears enough said indecision


     
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