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    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    The antagonizer is back, cheers



    Rhino, give the guy a break. He's been a Porsche enthusiast for a long time, has anticipated the new car with eagerness, but then he gets what? A car, where an auto tranny is faster than the manual and a manual which is hardly faster than his 2-year-old stock 996TTS. I'd be feeling pretty antagonistic myself, if I were him.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:


    The fact that one can only HOPE (!) that the 997TT is faster than the F430 shows how miserable a car the 997TT is (in particular with manual gear shift).
    I still cannot understand how Porsche could present such a disappointing car.




    so if we think that the 997TT is faster than the F430 that means the 997TT is miserable?

    and if the 997TT performance figure is better than the F430 that makes it such a disappointing car?

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    The antagonizer is back, cheers



    For a person that has never even owned a Porsche you sure talk a lot.

    Just as an FYI... MKSGR has been an ardent supporter of Porsche. You wouldn't know that though since you obviously have your own agenda.

    The reason some of us voice our concern for Porsche's products is because we don't want them to be superceded by their competitors. It is not to belittle or make the brand lesser. We hope Porsche's people peruse these boards and come away with a better understanding of some of their customers' concerns.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Outlaw_Hawk said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:


    The fact that one can only HOPE (!) that the 997TT is faster than the F430 shows how miserable a car the 997TT is (in particular with manual gear shift).
    I still cannot understand how Porsche could present such a disappointing car.




    so if we think that the 997TT is faster than the F430 that means the 997TT is miserable?

    and if the 997TT performance figure is better than the F430 that makes it such a disappointing car?



    Given that the F430 is two years old now - their shouldn't be one iota of doubt with regards to its performance against its Italian counterpart, but, there is.

    The turbo doesn't have the F430's cachet. It never has and never will, but, that was'nt its intended goal. Performance was alway Porsche's claim to fame. And now that seems to be in jeopardy. I'd say that's a little disappointing.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Guys,

    Let's wait for the car to be released and independently tested before cremating it, eulogizing it, and burying it.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    There isn't a nice way to write this but what many of you Porschephiles are missing is specialness in cars. If your going to pay $150,000 for a car shouldn't it be unique and offer something special?

    Anyone that has a medium paying job can buy a Porsche TT and many do. Often they live in some cheap apartment just to be able to say the drive a TT. This does not happen with a Ferrari. People with money, connnections and substantial resources beg, plead and grovel to get one. Yet they are unable to do so. Why do these people who can buy any car they want chase the Ferrari as they do? What do they know that present Porsche owners do not?

    In the past Porsche had a special place in the sport car world. Today it is a very good performing vanilla car. The only time it is worth its cost is if you can drive the Ring and 99.9999% of the owners do not. Otherwise, it is like an old shoe that Porsche resoles, gives new laces and tweaks the toe to give it the new car look. Face it, but for those rare moments where you can have some performance excitement, the car is nothing more than easter egg/inverted tub looking car which can be owned by anyone that can rub two nickels together. Is that worth a $150,000 to you?

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Nick, Nick, Nick... You have missed the whole basis for Porsches conservative optics. The 911 has a VW Beattle heritage. Add speed,outstanding handling, braking and you have soup de jour for a slobbering freudenschade lovefest.
    Humble looking, but not priced accordingly.

    You guys worry and over analyze too much. Neither Porsche or Ferrari offers what Lamborghini does, so give up.


    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    SoCalHoosier said:
    Quote:
    rhino said:
    The antagonizer is back, cheers



    For a person that has never even owned a Porsche you sure talk a lot.

    Just as an FYI... MKSGR has been an ardent supporter of Porsche. You wouldn't know that though since you obviously have your own agenda.

    The reason some of us voice our concern for Porsche's products is because we don't want them to be superceded by their competitors. It is not to belittle or make the brand lesser. We hope Porsche's people peruse these boards and come away with a better understanding of some of their customers' concerns.



    Poor RC tried and basically was given the quick shuffle out the door with Porsche rep. commenting that the internet represents only 3% of Porsche customer base. Porsche will continue what they are doing until more people vote with their feet. My sense is that is happening and Porsche still has its nose in the air.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    There isn't a nice way to write this but what many of you Porschephiles are missing is specialness in cars. If your going to pay $150,000 for a car shouldn't it be unique and offer something special?

    Anyone that has a medium paying job can buy a Porsche TT and many do. Often they live in some cheap apartment just to be able to say the drive a TT. This does not happen with a Ferrari. People with money, connnections and substantial resources beg, plead and grovel to get one. Yet they are unable to do so. Why do these people who can buy any car they want chase the Ferrari as they do? What do they know that present Porsche owners do not?





    These types of posts is what gives Ferrari owners a bad name and responsible for the stereotype they are getting a pity for those owners that appreciate the Ferrari for the machina that it is, not as a piece of jewelry to flawnt like the latest rap singer...

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    In regards to your statement, I remember driving a 930 in 1990 and thinking wow what a fast car but it feels like a go cart, and the interior so spartan, inferior to a same year 944 turbo, which in my opinion was way more refined. In 1993 I drove a 965 and that car had a lot better feel. The feel a car with that price tag should have. The 993 improved on the 965 but not with these great figures you are expecting from the 997TT, and yet you guys don't consider it to be a failure. The 997TT with the chrono package should be reasonably faster than his 996TS, for less money. This 997TT is faster than the Gemballa which is is to debut in Geneva again for alot less money. Every time MKSGR gets on this board it is to display his half empty glass of what ever. Even though I have only been a member for a VERY short time, I have been a porsche enthusiast since 1986. I didn't have to go through the questionable craftsmanship of the eighties to know Porsche has improved their product year after year.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Nick..."People with money, connnections and substantial resources beg, plead and grovel to get one. Yet they are unable to do so. Why do these people who can buy any car they want chase the Ferrari as they do? What do they know that present Porsche owners do not?" -- Are those symptoms of that rare disease known as "AFLUENZA" ?

    If you had ever held a SAG card and gone to the Hollywood unemployment office, you would notice many Ferraris in the parking lot. Worse yet, some of their owners live in those seedy apartments near the racetrack in Burbank.

    Ferrari does not discriminate on the basis of Zip Code!


    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    In regards to your statement, I remember driving a 930 in 1990 and thinking wow what a fast car but it feels like a go cart, and the interior so spartan, inferior to a same year 944 turbo, which in my opinion was way more refined. In 1993 I drove a 965 and that car had a lot better feel. The feel a car with that price tag should have. The 993 improved on the 965 but not with these great figures you are expecting from the 997TT, and yet you guys don't consider it to be a failure. The 997TT with the chrono package should be reasonably faster than his 996TS, for less money. This 997TT is faster than the Gemballa which is is to debut in Geneva again for alot less money. Every time MKSGR gets on this board it is to display his half empty glass of what ever. Even though I have only been a member for a VERY short time, I have been a porsche enthusiast since 1986. I didn't have to go through the questionable craftsmanship of the eighties to know Porsche has improved their product year after year.



    You're new here. If you had looked at MKSGR's older posts, you'd see a very committed Porschephile. He's disillusioned. The 997TT will be faster than the F430, but come on! That's a given! Porsche will have to do better to truly impress. Thing is, it CAN do better, but they keep the car at the lowest level of performance to have other marketing opportunities. THAT's what's bothering him.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    I will completely back off now, with one last comment. I think an 11+ quarter mile time for a $126,000 car is an achievement.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    I will completely back off now, with one last comment. I think an 11+ quarter mile time for a $126,000 car is an achievement.



    What do you think of a Z06...a miracle break through?

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    It's an awesome car for an unbelievably cheap price

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    If your going to pay $150,000 for a car shouldn't it be unique and offer something special?



    Since when is a new Ferrari $150,000? More like $200K +
    The new 997TT can be had for $123K, and it is special, they only sell a few thousand a year in the world! Just not as special as a car 50%+ more expensive of course

    Quote:
    People with money, connnections and substantial resources beg, plead and grovel to get one. Yet they are unable to do so.



    They don't beg to buy one, they just need to pay more than the list price. In NY there is no waiting list for people with their checkbook open.
    They are not "chasing" a Ferrari, most don't want to pay $250,000 for something that you can buy for $150,000 in Europe, or if you are good "friend" with a dealer (ie run a legal scam reselling your used cars while buying a new one cheap).

    Sometimes people listen to their sense even if they can afford it.
    And a lot of these rich people didn't get rich by throwing $100K over MSRP on anything, especially a car.

    Last, the real question you should ask is: "If you could buy both cars at MSRP, which one would you choose?"

    As long as I have a nice daily driver (997S cab ) I would take the F430 for the w/e

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    SciFrog said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    If your going to pay $150,000 for a car shouldn't it be unique and offer something special?



    Since when is a new Ferrari $150,000? More like $200K +
    The new 997TT can be had for $123K, and it is special, they only sell a few thousand a year in the world! Just not as special as a car 50%+ more expensive of course

    Quote:
    People with money, connnections and substantial resources beg, plead and grovel to get one. Yet they are unable to do so.



    They don't beg to buy one, they just need to pay more than the list price. In NY there is no waiting list for people with their checkbook open.
    They are not "chasing" a Ferrari, most don't want to pay $250,000 for something that you can buy for $150,000 in Europe, or if you are good "friend" with a dealer (ie run a legal scam reselling your used cars while buying a new one cheap).

    Sometimes people listen to their sense even if they can afford it.
    And a lot of these rich people didn't get rich by throwing $100K over MSRP on anything, especially a car.



    Very true. A 997TT and an F430 are about the same price in Europe. The local Ferrari dealer I inquired at can get me one in less than 6 months, be it a Berlinetta or a Spider. The only reason Ferraris are so special in the US is that Porsche can afford to give discounts on their cars ($122.000 vs. Euro 135.000), while Ferrari keeps their prices the same in the US, and on top pf that imports a small enough quantity to keep demand higher than supply.
    I guarantee you that if the 430 were as readily available as the Turbo, it wouldn't be any more prestigious and the Ferrari prestige zealots would be turning towards other, more exclusive brands. That's just human vanity. As long as other people don't have it, they HAVE to have it.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    As long as other people don't have it, they HAVE to have it.



    Bingo

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:

    Given that the F430 is two years old now - their shouldn't be one iota of doubt with regards to its performance against its Italian counterpart, but, there is.

    The turbo doesn't have the F430's cachet. It never has and never will, but, that was'nt its intended goal. Performance was alway Porsche's claim to fame. And now that seems to be in jeopardy. I'd say that's a little disappointing.


    First of all I agree with you that its a little disappointing but thats because Ferrari have made a great job with the F-430 compared with porsche but still
    the performance figure of the 997TT is better and that "we think" talk is because it haven't been tested yet
    you know how close the Test track result between the 996TTS and the F-430

    and sence the power & performance figure of the 997TT compared to the 996TTS is way better thanks to VTG charger and improved networked technology and the mechanical and electronics improvements on the Tiptronic gearbox and the the lighter body not to mention the Sport Chrono Turbo package that switchs PSM, PTM, PASM, to a sporty mode and the Overboost function
    But who knows maybe porsche have made a better job with the 997TT maybe there will be a bigger gap between the 997TT and the F-430 ?!

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Anybody who questions the 997TTs performance at this stage is crazy. Its times given are impressive and its abilities are beyond 99% of the people posting here.

    F430 versus 997TT ???

    Is the Ferrari a awd sports car? No.
    Is the Ferrari practical for a long trip? No.
    Can you get a 430 for the same price as a 997TT? No.

    So what Koolaide are you Turbo doubters drinking?

    What do you guys do? Just spec race from your work cubes all day long? Want fast? Where were you when the 996 GT2 came out? Get back to work.

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    There isn't a nice way to write this but what many of you Porschephiles are missing is specialness in cars. If your going to pay $150,000 for a car shouldn't it be unique and offer something special?

    Anyone that has a medium paying job can buy a Porsche TT and many do. Often they live in some cheap apartment just to be able to say the drive a TT. This does not happen with a Ferrari. People with money, connnections and substantial resources beg, plead and grovel to get one. Yet they are unable to do so. Why do these people who can buy any car they want chase the Ferrari as they do? What do they know that present Porsche owners do not?

    In the past Porsche had a special place in the sport car world. Today it is a very good performing vanilla car. The only time it is worth its cost is if you can drive the Ring and 99.9999% of the owners do not. Otherwise, it is like an old shoe that Porsche resoles, gives new laces and tweaks the toe to give it the new car look. Face it, but for those rare moments where you can have some performance excitement, the car is nothing more than easter egg/inverted tub looking car which can be owned by anyone that can rub two nickels together. Is that worth a $150,000 to you?



    Wow, why do a Ferrari owner has to behave like his car is so superior than anyone else? Can't we all be friends?

    The F430 doesn't really cost much more than the 997TT in Europe. The same medium paying guy living in a cheap apartment can just pay a little more for the F430 instead of 997TT if he wants to.

    And why do rich people has to beg to own one. There are tons of F430 on ebay daily and if one has money, he can buy both a coupe and a cab within one day.

    If the F430 is such a great car, may I ask you what 'ring time you can achieve with your car. Not that the 'ring time is that important, but I bet your F430 will not be significantly faster than my lowly 997S which cost less than half your car.

    Don't need to listen to me, just check out AUTOCAR for their 2005 driver's car of the year - 997S!

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Targa Tim said:
    Wow, why do a Ferrari owner has to behave like his car is so superior than anyone else?


    Pretentious..

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:

    What do you guys do? Just spec race from your work cubes all day long? Want fast? Where were you when the 996 GT2 came out? Get back to work.



    LOL, that's perfect!

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    The only chance I'd know which one is quicker is from reading a car-mag comparo, as there's no way I can afford either(in Australia anyway), what I'd read through the threads is the obvious passion one has about his/her car, it's likely the 2nd most "investman" in one's life, so enjoy your car, one that you've thought carefully about and could afford and enjoy! Be happy! cos we'd be driving what 99% peoples consider "dream-cars" !

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Anyone that has a medium paying job can buy a Porsche TT and many do.



    Nick, how much money in a year is in your opinion a medium paying job?

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Turbo said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Anyone that has a medium paying job can buy a Porsche TT and many do.



    Nick, how much money in a year is in your opinion a medium paying job?



    Between 1 and 5 million. Those pesky pretentious middle-class Ferrari-owner wannabes

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Turbo said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Anyone that has a medium paying job can buy a Porsche TT and many do.



    Nick, how much money in a year is in your opinion a medium paying job?



    Between 1 and 5 million. Those pesky pretentious middle-class Ferrari-owner wannabes



    Okay so I'am wrong for 430 and 997 my way is the LADA Board...

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    Quote:
    Turbo said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Turbo said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Anyone that has a medium paying job can buy a Porsche TT and many do.



    Nick, how much money in a year is in your opinion a medium paying job?



    Between 1 and 5 million. Those pesky pretentious middle-class Ferrari-owner wannabes



    Okay so I'am wrong for 430 and 997 my way is the LADA Board...



    Now, now, don't underestimate yourself. A Yugo is well within your reach

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    You are right, but only because of a little Inheritance....of my rich uncle an attorney who drives a Ferrari...

    Re: 911TT Vs. F430 Performance

    relax, Ferrari fans, they are just blowing steam. Becouse 599 gtb (turbos real contender) will blow every porsche for years to come away. As for the 430 it is going to be damed close to turbos performance, in my opinion on some (non german mag) tracks even faster but thats my opinion. as For the every day driving 360 and 430 have shown to be exelent every day drivers. and preaty damed reliable too.

    Turbo will in my opinion will have generaly better perf, but then I'd be preaty damed embaresed for porsche if it wasnt. Its a 3.6 l turbo Vtg 680 Nm beast ws 460Nm 4.3 l Atmo, no comparison there. as for the price u cant compere price/performance on hi level cars like porsche and ferrari. If u want price/perf by a suoped up Nissan.

     
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