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    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Listen to a lotus evora 400 and ask why Porsche, a hugely bigger company, cannot get a better sound from the 991.2


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Lotus Evora 400 is supercharged not turbocharged.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Topspeed:

    Lotus Evora 400 is supercharged not turbocharged.

    That's right and lotus is using a pedestrian toyota v6. PORSCHE maybe should rethink their turbo everything strategy, audi knows superchargers very well. Just saying as RC says, but these new turbo 718s and 991s will really lose big time at resale and after the warranty is runs out.

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Topspeed:

    Lotus Evora 400 is supercharged not turbocharged.

    Also, Lotus falls under different less restrictive emissions/noise emissions regulations because they produce under 7000 (I think this is the magic number but I'm not sure...) per year. 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    JimFlat6:
    Topspeed:

    Lotus Evora 400 is supercharged not turbocharged.

    That's right and lotus is using a pedestrian toyota v6. PORSCHE maybe should rethink their turbo everything strategy, audi knows superchargers very well. Just saying as RC says, but these new turbo 718s and 991s will really lose big time at resale and after the warranty is runs out.

     

    Customers would have issues accepting a supercharger in a 911, I am pretty sure about it. Also, I'm not so sure superchargers are that effective when it comes to CO2 output.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Not a fan of the Corvette but it is excellent value for money compared to the 991.2 , not to mention compared to the new 718 Boxster .


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    m4ever:

    Not a fan of the Corvette but it is excellent value for money compared to the 991.2 , not to mention compared to the new 718 Boxster .

    Porsche has become very expensive lately, indeed. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    RC:
    m4ever:

    Not a fan of the Corvette but it is excellent value for money compared to the 991.2 , not to mention compared to the new 718 Boxster .

    Porsche has become very expensive lately, indeed. Smiley

    Yes, and the pricing, especially for necessary options, is sublimely ridiculous.  However, as long as lease rates, and consequently, payments remain manageable of for many, Porsche won't have an issue moving product.  I often look at drivers of Porsches and wonder how some can actually afford that car.  I walked a few blocks from my office to lunch today as the weather is very mild for the end of January in Chicago and spotted a multitude of Porsches including a 991.1 GT3.  Until the lease market freezes, Porsche will continue to raise prices.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Actually, I asked myself how I could afford a 991.1 Turbo S.  I should have kept the car, it would have made more sense from a financial point of view but I was so bored with it and I needed a car to be able to park it in front of my business, so I had no choice. Never again though, I lost some serious money in the process, money I could have used for getting another toy. I was lucky to get off the lease easily and the loss was acceptable but still, never again.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Porsche lease rates in the US are not great. I am able to get cheaper financing rates through the banks. It almost appears as if Porsche financing is not interested in existing/long term customers. 


    --

    2014 Porsche 991 C4S Black with Sports Design Package,  2013 Porsche Cayenne Dark Blue Metallic, New York


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    They aren't. Porsche sells tons of cars in the US with small discounts. Why would they have attractive leases? The real question is why do they have good leases in Germany on some models at least?


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    SciFrog:

    They aren't. Porsche sells tons of cars in the US with small discounts. Why would they have attractive leases? The real question is why do they have good leases in Germany on some models at least?

    Simple: The competition is strong over here and by competition, I do not mean Ferrari or Lamborghini.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Maybe its because they are cheap in the US compared to Europe.  A base 911 starts at 82,120 EUROS. A 718 at a shade under 51,500 EURO.

     

    I know that does not include VAT/Sales tax.  Porsche does not get the VAT or sales tax and in quite a few states there is NO sales tax.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Leawood911:

    Maybe its because they are cheap in the US compared to Europe.  A base 911 starts at 82,120 EUROS. A 718 at a shade under 51,500 EURO.

     

    I know that does not include VAT/Sales tax.  Porsche does not get the VAT or sales tax and in quite a few states there is NO sales tax.

    Considering the net prices, US cars are actually more expensive. The times of a high EUR (or weak USD) are over. Both currencies seem to move to parity at some point.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    porsche-991-carrera-4s-cabriolet-mkii-c152002022016185141_8.jpg

    Nice speced 4S. We will probably see model designation in black or exterior color more often now since Porsche added that to the option list for both Carreras and Turbos which to my knowledge has not been the case for pre-FL cars.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Yawn


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Hockenheim Test: BMW vs Mercedes vs Nissan vs Porsche


    Nissan 370Z NISMO

    Lap Time

    With ESP: 1,17.9
    Without ESP: 1,15.6

    Slalom 18m

    With ESP: 68,6 km/h
    Without ESP: 67,3 km/h


    2. BMW M4 COUPE

    Lap Time

    With DSC: 1,15.9
    Without DSC: 1,12.3
    DSC in Sport mode: 1,14.4

    Slalom 18m

    With ESP: 69,6 km/h
    Without ESP: 70,4 km/h
    Sport-ESP: 70,3 km/h


    3. Mercedes AMG C63

    Lap Time

    With ESP: 1,15.5
    Without ESP: 1,12.8
    ESP in Sport mode: 1,13.1

    Slalom 18m

    With ESP: 67,2 km/h
    Without ESP: 69,5 km/h
    Sport-ESP: 69,5 km/h


    4. Porsche 991.2 Carrera S

    Lap Time

    With PSM: 1,10.4
    Without PSM: 1,09.5
    PSM in Sport mode: 1,09.9


    Slalom 18m

    With ESP: 73,9 km/h
    Without ESP: 74,0 km/h
    Sport-ESP: 74,0 km/h

    --------------------------

    Ferrari 488 GTB: 1,08.3
    Porsche 991 GT3 RS: 1,08.5
    Chevrolet Corvette Z06: 1,08.7
    Porsche 991 Turbo S: 1,08.7
    Lamborghini Huracan LP610-4: 1,08.8
    Porsche 991 Turbo: 1,09.3
    Audi R8 V10 Plus: 1,09.4
    Porsche 997 GT3 RS: 1,09.5
    Porsche 997 GT3 RS 4.0: 1,09.5
    Porsche 991 GT3: 1,09.5
    Porsche Cayman GT4: 1,10.1
    Porsche 997 GT3: 1,10.4


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    So new carrera is as fast then 997 RS 4.0 , 991 GT3 , faster then GT4 and 997 GT3. 

    There is no more point in lap times. Cars have become way too good and a  "'realm"sports car is no longer faster then a GT/sports car. The only difference they can make from now on with the "hard core sports cars "'is the way they feel. But probably by doing so they will get slower then the " touristen " cars ...


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    ^ As fast as 991 GT3 with PDK + Cup tires angrythe other 2 are from previous generation and manual, which also has an older chassis and tire development.

    BiTurbo:

    Hockenheim Test: BMW vs Mercedes vs Nissan vs Porsche


    Nissan 370Z NISMO

    Lap Time

    Slalom 18m

    With ESP: 67,3 km/h 
    Without ESP: 68,6 km/h

     

    Fixed


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    To me what I get out of those times is what a fantastic job Porsche does with the PSM, something we have talked about here meny times. Only Porsche is able to provide an electronic handling system (ESP) that does not hinder performance as much as other makers, in Sport Mode it doesn't even seem to hinder it at all, and still allows for sport driving enjoyment without an electronic nanny intruding in and throwing and ice bucket on the fun on every corner.

    Details like these all add up in the end and makes me always coming back to Porsche everytime... hope that never changes over time with the VW take over...


    --

     

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    when if in 15 years ,  every " sporty "car  is faster in full autonomous mode will far outdrive any human because its computers can process and apply a billion bits of info per millisecond whether on the track or on the road because  its tires with thousands  of sensors embedded into the tread and carcass instantanereading every grain of sand , drop of moisture , g force / grip in communication with the chassis , throttle , location , altitude , etc.etc,,  computers ....will there still be the same intensity of argumenting and comparing from an internet bench racing brand vs brand , model vs model standpoint ? 

     

     


    --

     

    2016  991 Carrera GTS  " PCA 60 "  Club Coupe       orig owner ; 1 of 60 

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Slightly off topic: the evolution of the iconic shape (unfortunately without the increase in size):  http://youtu.be/Pz8IGLgFE2s


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Carlos from Spain:

    To me what I get out of those times is what a fantastic job Porsche does with the PSM, something we have talked about here meny times. Only Porsche is able to provide an electronic handling system (ESP) that does not hinder performance as much as other makers, in Sport Mode it doesn't even seem to hinder it at all, and still allows for sport driving enjoyment without an electronic nanny intruding in and throwing and ice bucket on the fun on every corner.

    Details like these all add up in the end and makes me always coming back to Porsche everytime... hope that never changes over time with the VW take over...


    --

     

    I actually thinks being rear engined has something to do with it too.

    The tail is not as light as a front engine rear drive car so it doesn't swing as quickly and violently as the others, that makes it much easier to control, modern 911s can be driven out of a slide simply by staying on the throttle, that means the electronics doesn't have to hamper performance that much when compared to the other cars. 


    --

     

     


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    You may have a point, the lower polar moment of inertia of the 911 may help. We could find out more if we had a similar ESP vs non-ESP lap time chart with the cayman included for example. 


    --

    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Thanks for the post, Neunelf.  The videos that followed were also fascinating about how Porsches are manufactured. I have been to the factory several times but have never seen the complete process as shown in the videos. Pretty amazing.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    neunelf:

    Slightly off topic: the evolution of the iconic shape (unfortunately without the increase in size):  http://youtu.be/Pz8IGLgFE2s

    I can actually see the increase in size... Smiley Smiley Very nice video, thanks a lot. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    What is that round thing in the front bumper?

    porsche-The-new-image.jpeg


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Lid of the hole for the towing lug?


    --

    We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



    The secret of life is to admire without desiring.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    Rossi:

    Lid of the hole for the towing lug?

    Yes.


    Re: OFFICIAL: 2016 Porsche 911 [991.2]

    RC:
    neunelf:

    Slightly off topic: the evolution of the iconic shape (unfortunately without the increase in size):  http://youtu.be/Pz8IGLgFE2s

    I can actually see the increase in size... Smiley Smiley Very nice video, thanks a lot. Smiley

    I can actually see the price increase too.  

    Last evening, I went with a group of friends to the Chicago Auto Show, an event I seldom attend, and was stunned by the Monroney sticker on a new 911 Targa S.   That car was over $178,000!  A couple of model years' ago, that sum would purchase a 911 Turbo, not a mid-level car.  Porsche has more direct competition today than years past; however, Porsche management seems to believe it can price with impunity.  


     
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