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    Re: Manual to PDK

    Lukas:

    Except for when I'm commuting my car in jammed traffic I always engage Sport Plus and manual mode and prefer to handle the gearchange this way and find it very inspiring and involving.

    Sport Plus makes a difference in Auto mode because of this "Race Gearchange Strategy" and the Launch Control of course. The throttle map is the same in Sport and Sport+. Therefore, Sport+ in manual is as good as Sport in manual.

    But as many has said before, Sport Chrono is an absolute must. Doing manual mode in normal mode is just plain boring and slow and I really don't understand why Porsche decided to not have the sport-modes standard on all pdk-cars. Why would they risk to get bad reviews just as a result of having a reviewer testing a car without SC and complain on slow shifts in manual mode?

     

    Many extras on Porsche are absolute must, including of course the SC. IMO they want to make the (theoretical) starting price of their cars appear lower. A higher starting price on their cheaper cars especially, might act as a disincentive to enter a showroom. Of course they could have these essential extras  included in the basic price and make them standard equipment (like other competitors do), but this is not the Porsche way unfortunately.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Manual to PDK

    KresoF1:
    reginos:

    The reason DCT have not penetrated more in smaller cars is for pure reason of cost. They cost a large % of the price of a Polo or a Fabia for example.


    I do not agree fully here.

    Did you drove Polo 1.4 with DSG? Try it. You will see that sometimes that underpowered engine can be a problem for DCT implementation. My mother in law bought Polo 1.2 TSI(105ps) with DSG recently. It is an excellent implementation of the same gearbox. But, 1.2TSI is engine with much more torque then 1.4...

    Price is an issue but, IMHO most engine in small cars are way too waek for proper DCT implementation.

    Thank you for the tip.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Manual to PDK

    Gnil:
     Ask Porsche_Jeck how he felt when we drove off at the Ring, he in his 997 Gt3 and me in my Carrera S ( he ''refused'' to look on the side of his car, as there I was Smiley .... then the twisties arrived I I went gently back into my place Smiley )

    How I felt ? Like a lame duck.......praying that we finally would reach Hatzenbach (long live the twisties..) Smiley Seriously: the manual gearbox in the GT3 feels very "mechanic" and provides a lot of fun, but I'm sure there is still potential in it for improvement from a performance point of view. I know quite a number of track buddies who are not too happy with the GT3 manual gearbox (performance wise).
    This is especially true if you compare acceleration starting from 1st or 2nd gear (just what the two of us did after entering the track), not so much at the higher gears. Especially the upshift from 2nd to 3rd is neither very smooth nor very quick (probably because 3rd gear is equipped with steel synchrong rings which is not the case for 1st/2nd).  And of course even in the heat of the moment on the track PDK always will prevent you from a mis-shift (ask your brother Smiley)..

    From a performance point of view PDK is the way to go (just think about the 75+ shifts per lap on the NoS...), from a driving fun point of view I'm not so sure. Personally I somehow feel a bit disconnected and not fully in control in any car with an auto-box or PDK. In a best of both worlds scenario I would have a PDK for the daily commute and a sequential gearbox for the track Smiley

     


    --

    public roads: Porsche 987 S Seal/Cocoa, toll road Smiley : Porsche 997 GT3 Arctic/Black


    Re: Manual to PDK

    Conclusion is that Porsche must come up with something up to date on their GT cars in the next makeover.

    It could be a sport version of PDK or it could be a Sequential or something else they will invent but the 6speed manual with clutch pedal is an anachronism.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Manual to PDK

     Today I concentrated more on my PDK . One thing that does provide immense pleasure is when accelerating hard, sport mode or sports + and changing gears manually , as you can feel the immense speed of the gear change, the engine not loosing one instant of power, everything gets so fast and you feel like a rocket . I must say , that's a FANTASTIC  feeling  . I would for sure miss this if I get another 6 speed again


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Manual to PDK

     These days I have been driving 6 speed manuals again  on the open roads as well as on the track , and I have been surprised by my experience.

    As you may know I always had a love/hate relationship with my PDK on my Carrera S. Sometimes I think it's great and other times I just wondered what I am doing with an automatic car when I love shifting.

    My first reaction , now, when I drove again a manual ( GT3 , Mini JCW ) , is how SLOW the upshifting is !! I was actually quite frustrated to loose so much time, and to loose the acceleration feeling, each time I upshift.  And that specially when coming out of a curve .

    With PDK the acceleration is not interrupted , giving you an amazing fast feeling and being extremely time gaining  .

    As to the downshifts with manual, I did not feel I was loosing anything as to PDK. You brake and downshift at the same time, so not much time lost there  ( just easier with PDK ).

    Generally going back to manual  after driving PDK for 21/2 years does feel like going backwards in time and going to an archaic technology .

    So now I have a big dilemma as I had planned that my next car would probably be a 991 GT3 manual . But I am not sure this would the the right choice anymore.

    Manual is slower, much slower then PDK . On the track I do prefer to take over , then to be taken over, no doubt   For the ones who do track your car, you know what I mean !!

     There is no way manual will be able to compete against PDK on similar GT3's . And I do not like to feel left behind on the track !!!!!!

    So, should I definitely berry  manual , and stay with a feeling that  I am crossing a line, that I put myself in a category that for years I considered to be '' for the older'' or should I just embrace progress, future, technology and efficiency ??????  

     


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Manual to PDK

    Embrace it Gnil - you know it makes sense...!

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Manual to PDK

    It's straight choice IMO. Either:

    1) you give priority to acceleration (where the PDK is more efficient) or,
     
    2) you give priority to the interactive experience of changing gears.

    If you value faster acceleration more, then PDK is the only way to go.

    If you prefer using a manual transmission (both gear lever and clutch pedal) and if this feeling outweighs the slightly lesser acceleration, then you choose a manual gearbox.

    If you prefer the button/paddle interaction of PDK more than operating a gear lever and clutch pedal, then you win on both counts: you get better acceleration plus the feeling you prefer.

    If you love both faster acceleration and using a manual gearbox, then you agonise until you choose one or the other Smiley


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Manual to PDK

     PDK is surely the future, but I am so used to manual. Every time I change gears in PDK I would have to make an effort to think about it. PDK might be faster but my old brain that is used to manual will take time to change in PDK. 

    It would be interesting to find out from those who have driven manual most of their lives and now driving PDK. I would like to find out how long it took them to get used to it. My son, who is still not old enough to drive, questioned me why I didn't go for PDK. 


    Re: Manual to PDK

    Gnil, I can sign-off all of your observations. I was also I die hard manual guy before but now when I have had my PDK for 1,5 years I will never go back to manual stick again. My observation is that it takes a while to get familiar with the PDK gearbox and to use it in a proper way. This took me a while but when I've overcome that part it's a no brainer to go with PDK (or similar automatic boxes) in the future.

    I would be surprised if the 991 GT3 is not possible to get with PDK. By the time the GT3 is introduced they will for sure have developed the PDK concept further. Maybe we will see a bit more racy and agressive PDK in the GT-models. Sport++ and Sport+++ buttons  Smiley

    I will order my 991.S with PDK and get the most sporties options Smiley


    --

    Current: 997.2 C2S Meteorgrey/Black - PDK, PSE, LSD, SportChrono, Nav, BOSE, etc.

    Sold: 997.1 C2S Black/Black - PSE, Adaptives, PCCB, -20mm/LSD, Short-shifter, SportChrono, Nav, BOSE, etc.


    Re: Manual to PDK

    Had it on a Boxster S and would never do it again on such a car.

    IMO PDK makes sense for:

    - daily (city) driving or if you share your car with a female companion who doesn't like the stick shift

    - on cruisers such as a Carrera 4 Convertible or on turbo cars

    - if you want to shave the last tenths off your laptime or if you don't heel & toe

     


    Re: Manual to PDK

    Gnil:

    So now I have a big dilemma as I had planned that my next car would probably be a 991 GT3 manual . But I am not sure this would the the right choice anymore.

     

     

     Don't worry too much: firstly, the single clutch GT (RS?) manual box is much quicker on upshifts (downshifts as well) as compared to the conventional manual box. The effect is quite noticable - you will like it.

    Secondly, I am not sure whether a manual version of the 991 GT3 will be offered at all...


    Re: Manual to PDK

     @ easy : you forgot on of the important points  :  wanting to be able to take over the other GT's on the track  

    @Bitko : I drove stick for 24 years. It took me a couple thousand km to seriously get used to it, but only a few days to know how to use it properly.

    @ MKSGR : it will be interesting to see what king of transmission will be available on the GT models.  Nearly all the competition is now completely and only with double clutch or sequential transmissions... I wonder what P has chosen, but I might suspect that why will keep  a 6 or 7 speed manual in the  GT3 991.1  for the purists and not to upset too much the ones who will have a hard time accepting the evolution,  and drop it for .2 as Ferrari did.


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Manual to PDK

    i have a manuel gear on my GT3 and i like it  but if i would be in your shoes, i would defenetly stick to PDK gear if you decide to go on a GT3 or RS.

    I'll do that for sure of the new 991 GT3 RS.


    --

    GT3, Cooper S & CS


    Re: Manual to PDK

    I don't go tracking; I don't live in the heart of the city; going fast is a thing of the past. I hope my son when he gets his licence appreciates the driver engagement of the manual, if not then perhaps my next 911 will be a PDK.

    Re: Manual to PDK

    PDK (or similar) is better for daily driving and better for track driving. No discussion really.

    Involvement? Better get involved with braking, lines and car control and leave the clutch pedal and stick routine behind.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Manual to PDK

    No turning back after moving to PDK...there are simply too many advantages!

    One note of caution however.  It is very easy to become lazy and leave PDK in auto too long. 

    Best plan is to warm up the oil in auto/normal mode - then change to sport/manual mode for general driving.  You can then revert to auto/normal if you hit heavy traffic, or revert to sport plus/manual for spirited driving when roads are clear...

    It's also relevant that even in auto you can use the paddles which converts the transmission to manual for 8 second bursts..if necessary..

     

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Manual to PDK

     Hmnn, several years ago I predicted this day would come. I also argued that there is an art to using PDK (at the time it was the F1) which many scoffed at. This too has come to pass.

    For those of you still using manual, you don't know what you are missing.


    --

     


    Re: Manual to PDK

    I drive regularly a 6-speed Turbo, a 997.2S PDK and another car with a 5-speed manual. I think PDK is superior.

    To the OP: Unfortunately these threads are not useful to you. You'll hear the PDK guys loving it and the 'manualites' hating it. You must take a PDK car w/ SC out for a long road trip and try it in its multiple driving modes and decide for yourself. That's the only way.

     


    --

    _________________________________________________________________ 

    "Dream as impractical, irrational and unnecessary as that may be... Here's to the Dreamers!" -- Porsche AG.


     
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