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    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    Leawood911:

    In that case I’m heading to the dealer. They have one in stock. 

    Smiley Best family car ever, no sportscar though.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    the GT3 in PDK is supposed to be same time from 0--100 to the E63S...i.e. 3.4s

    you need a chrono to measure theses specific performances and not a drag race with 2 pilots with different time reaction. it was proven may times that the new 3 actually is quicker than 3.4s to 100km/h...

     


    --

     

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

     

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    the-missile:

    the GT3 in PDK is supposed to be same time from 0--100 to the E63S...i.e. 3.4s

    The E63S pulls off faster from standstill (AWD), this is why it looks as if it is faster...

    you need a chrono to measure theses specific performances and not a drag race with 2 pilots with different time reaction. it was proven may times that the new 3 actually is quicker than 3.4s to 100km/h...

    The best time I ever saw for the 991.2 GT3 was 3.3 seconds with PDK.

    From 0-300 kph, the E63S is aprox. 4 seconds faster. Still impressive for the new GT3, considering the n/a engine and the (relatively) low power figure of 500 hp.

    36082355655_6b42cc7579_k.jpg
    35153911786_ef423e966d_o.jpg

    The car in the above test had a measured 610 hp, so I guess it wasn't in the same good shape the E63S usually is. 

    This would explain why the E63S in the video was a tiny bit faster than the GT3. Usually these cars (E63S) have 640 hp, some even way more (Renntech claims to have seen a customer stock car with 690 hp).


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    The claimed HP numbers by tuners also vary by how they compute the powertrain losses.

    With AWD there is no set formula and some use 12% while others use 15 or even higher and that would show much different crank readings.

    I would prefer they started to show the real reading at the wheels and compare it then to stock numbers read also at the wheels.

    No one does that because 550HP does not sound as impressive as 690HP and the majority of readers would not be bothered to learn about "nuances" of that sort.


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    RC:

    The E63S pulls off faster from standstill (AWD), this is why it looks as if it is faster...

    with 500KG penalty, it should not Smiley

    The best time I ever saw for the 991.2 GT3 was 3.3 seconds with PDK.

    better than 3.4s advertised. all good here Smiley

    From 0-300 kph, the E63S is aprox. 4 seconds faster. Still impressive for the new GT3, considering the n/a engine and the (relatively) low power figure of 500 hp.

    from 0-250, E63 stays behind. numbers can tell everything and nothing at the same time Smiley

    36082355655_6b42cc7579_k.jpg
    35153911786_ef423e966d_o.jpg

    The car in the above test had a measured 610 hp, so I guess it wasn't in the same good shape the E63S usually is. 

    This would explain why the E63S in the video was a tiny bit faster than the GT3. Usually these cars (E63S) have 640 hp, some even way more (Renntech claims to have seen a customer stock car with 690 hp).


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

     

    The sheets you posted clearly stated that GT3 is faster than E63S up to 250km/h... probablt because it is measured.

    drag race with 2 drivers...well Smiley

    it should not lift faster event with 4 wheels drive especially with 500kg penalty. Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    absent:

    The claimed HP numbers by tuners also vary by how they compute the powertrain losses.

    With AWD there is no set formula and some use 12% while others use 15 or even higher and that would show much different crank readings.

    I would prefer they started to show the real reading at the wheels and compare it then to stock numbers read also at the wheels.

    No one does that because 550HP does not sound as impressive as 690HP and the majority of readers would not be bothered to learn about "nuances" of that sort.

    Renntech is a very professional tuner in Germany and I doubt they make mistakes. They are also present in the AMG Owner's Lounge (where AMG monitors everything), so... Smiley They claimed that they measured a customer stock car at 690 hp and had a problem to explain to the customer why they couldn't get the promised 80+ hp out of the engine. Smiley They also noticed that the E63S engine gains around 25-27 hp if you run it with Aral Ultimate fuel (102 octane Europe). Gains with Shell's V-Power (100 octane Europe) were basically not existing, from Renntech's fuel analysis evaluation apparently related to too many cleaning additives in the V-Power fuel. 

    Don't shoot the messenger... Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    The E63S has a fantastic launch control, it basically launches the car like a rocket. May be related to the MCT gearbox?


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    Leawood911:

    In that case I’m heading to the dealer. They have one in stock. 

    Mike, you don't strike me as a sedan guy.Smiley


    --

    Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    nberry:
    Leawood911:

    In that case I’m heading to the dealer. They have one in stock. 

    Mike, you don't strike me as a sedan guy.Smiley

    I think he meant it as a joke but careful, the E63S cannot "replace" a sportscar. I would never ever replace a 911 or a R8 with an E63S, unless I really had too (financial reasons, whatever). The E63S is a great family car and great daily driver but no replacement for a super sportscar. I learned my lesson with the Panamera Turbo S. 


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    nberry:
    Leawood911:

    In that case I’m heading to the dealer. They have one in stock. 

    Mike, you don't strike me as a sedan guy.Smiley

    In place of my Azera not the 997 Turbo. Oh my god. I may not be a sedan guy but I will never not have a 911. No worries. 39 years and counting. 


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    I am not disputing Renntech claims, I am their long time customer with more then a dozen cars modded by them and I trust them too.

    I was only making a point that comparing crank reading from factory to tuner's is not very dependable as everyone has a different idea of how much losses are incurred by the time the power gets to the wheels (where it is measured).

    Factory measures the crank power on the engine itself and that is an exact number before any losses, tuners measure the power at the wheels on a dyno and add an estimated percentage of losses to achieve their estimated crank power.

    That percentage varies, therefore it would be much better comparison if both stock and tuned were measured on the same type of dyno, without "converting the result to crank power.

    Only the power at the wheels, stock vs tuned. 


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    Leawood911:
    nberry:
    Leawood911:

    In that case I’m heading to the dealer. They have one in stock. 

    Mike, you don't strike me as a sedan guy.Smiley

    In place of my Azera not the 997 Turbo. Oh my god. I may not be a sedan guy but I will never not have a 911. No worries. 39 years and counting. 

    That's what I thought.kiss


    --

    Where the willingness is great, the difficulties cannot be great.


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    RC:
    absent:

    The claimed HP numbers by tuners also vary by how they compute the powertrain losses.

    With AWD there is no set formula and some use 12% while others use 15 or even higher and that would show much different crank readings.

    I would prefer they started to show the real reading at the wheels and compare it then to stock numbers read also at the wheels.

    No one does that because 550HP does not sound as impressive as 690HP and the majority of readers would not be bothered to learn about "nuances" of that sort.

    Renntech is a very professional tuner in Germany and I doubt they make mistakes. They are also present in the AMG Owner's Lounge (where AMG monitors everything), so... Smiley They claimed that they measured a customer stock car at 690 hp and had a problem to explain to the customer why they couldn't get the promised 80+ hp out of the engine. Smiley They also noticed that the E63S engine gains around 25-27 hp if you run it with Aral Ultimate fuel (102 octane Europe). Gains with Shell's V-Power (100 octane Europe) were basically not existing, from Renntech's fuel analysis evaluation apparently related to too many cleaning additives in the V-Power fuel. 

    Don't shoot the messenger... Smiley

    You already quote why they might claim that a "stock car had 690hp"... They need to explain why their products don't improve the performance very much... Honestly, these days (with all the scandals and Mr Zetsche being interviewed in Berlin) you can rule out that a OEM will sell illegal cars. A car with an official hp number of 610hp would be illegal (in the EU) if it had 690hp Smiley


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    Congrats on the new ride kiss

    Music: bad taste angry techno ?  enlightened


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    MKSGR:
    RC:
    absent:

    The claimed HP numbers by tuners also vary by how they compute the powertrain losses.

    With AWD there is no set formula and some use 12% while others use 15 or even higher and that would show much different crank readings.

    I would prefer they started to show the real reading at the wheels and compare it then to stock numbers read also at the wheels.

    No one does that because 550HP does not sound as impressive as 690HP and the majority of readers would not be bothered to learn about "nuances" of that sort.

    Renntech is a very professional tuner in Germany and I doubt they make mistakes. They are also present in the AMG Owner's Lounge (where AMG monitors everything), so... Smiley They claimed that they measured a customer stock car at 690 hp and had a problem to explain to the customer why they couldn't get the promised 80+ hp out of the engine. Smiley They also noticed that the E63S engine gains around 25-27 hp if you run it with Aral Ultimate fuel (102 octane Europe). Gains with Shell's V-Power (100 octane Europe) were basically not existing, from Renntech's fuel analysis evaluation apparently related to too many cleaning additives in the V-Power fuel. 

    Don't shoot the messenger... Smiley

    You already quote why they might claim that a "stock car had 690hp"... They need to explain why their products don't improve the performance very much... Honestly, these days (with all the scandals and Mr Zetsche being interviewed in Berlin) you can rule out that a OEM will sell illegal cars. A car with an official hp number of 610hp would be illegal (in the EU) if it had 690hp Smiley

    Markus, you are wrong. It was one single car, usually they get 80-90 hp out of the engine with a software update only. Everything over 710 hp is a delicate matter though, it requires either a raise in fuel quality and some individual adjustments or new hardware (new turbo chargers mostly). So how do you explain a customer with a stock car with 690 hp that you can give him "safe" 20 hp only? Smiley They could have lied to him easily, by presenting the end result only. 

    Renntech is a reputable AMG tuner in Germany, they are also present in the AMG Owners Lounge (otherwise they would have been kicked out a long time ago, this is AMG's official forum).

    Most  E63S they tested on the dyno have around 640 hp in average, with some cars going even higher. That 690 hp stock engine was a one time thing.

    Btw: You know me for a very long time. Do you really think I don't know what I'm talking about. I helped program the software of my GT500... Smiley


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    And people are surprised that accidents happen...

    https://mbworld.org/articles/mercedes-amg-e63-s-distronic-plus/?utm_source=jan16&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=content

    (Hint: The E63S doesn't really have an autonomous driving system, just Distronic Plus).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    RC:

    And people are surprised that accidents happen...

    https://mbworld.org/articles/mercedes-amg-e63-s-distronic-plus/?utm_source=jan16&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=content

    (Hint: The E63S doesn't really have an autonomous driving system, just Distronic Plus).

    It works until it doesn’t.   That’s why Mercedes doesn’t tout Distronic plus as a self-driving system.  It is merely a driving aid that, in the video, is being abused.  


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    Reminds me of the old urban myth about a guy who rented an RV. As he rolled down the highway he noticed a cruise control button, pushed it, and went to the back of the RV to make a cup of coffee. Big crash soon followed.  This story still serves as a warning to me. 


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    Is there any news?  Starving for more details. 


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    Leawood911:

    Is there any news?  Starving for more details. 

    I am updating the review all the time, just look at the first post in this thread. Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    RC, did you drive the station wagon? Is it "identical" to yours except for the rear luggage compartment?

    Thanks!


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    bluelines:

    RC, did you drive the station wagon? Is it "identical" to yours except for the rear luggage compartment?

    Thanks!

    As far as I remember, yes but maybe...maybe...the damper stiffness was a bit softer (station wagon). Maybe, I don't remember 100%. Smiley Otherwise, both feel the same (engine power, steering, grip, etc.), which is good. Smiley I also think that the rear of the station wagon felt a bit "lighter" but it is difficult to say now.

    Only thing bothering me is the steering feel with the 300 kph tire pressure (3.5 bar in front... Smiley): It sucks. It is safe, steering is still direct and everything, no issues here but the steering feels numb(er). Annoying. When I lower the tire pressure to the 250 kph speed "limit", the steering feel is much better (sportier). I am actually thinking about lowering it and keeping it under 250 kph. Would probably save me some fuel as well (over 25 liters /100 km at Vmax, ouch). Smiley

    The engine is just a monster...amazing. I always imagine this thing in a car with 500 kg less weight... Smiley Throttle response is OK (pedal way is a bit too long for my taste) but turbo lag is noticeable, especially at lower rpm. Not as good as in my 991.2 GTS for example.


    --

     

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)

     


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    Thanks wink

    How do you rate it against an RS6? Any specific plus or minus points?


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    bluelines:

    Thanks wink

    How do you rate it against an RS6? Any specific plus or minus points?

    To be honest, in my opinion the RS6 looks a little bit better, especially compared to the E63S station wagon (matter of taste maybe) but the interior is nicer in the E63, especially with the AMG Performance Seats and the E63S is the newer car and it is immediately noticeable once you drive it and use the entertainment system.

    I drove a RS6 Performance a couple of weeks ago again, so I can make a pretty good comparison.

    Chassis-wise, the RS6 stands no chance vs. the E63S, the cars are worlds apart, seriously. They feel basically the same when driving straight but once you switch to a more dynamic driving mode, driving through twists and turns, the E63S seems to be much more nimble, the RS6 always reminded me a little bit of my wife's Cayenne S Diesel. It is a fast car in curves but it lacks the fun feel and directness of the E63S. The steering in the E63S is also more direct and precise, however I think it should be a tiny bit lighter (RS6 steering feels a bit lighter but also less direct).

    Then, there is the exhaust/engine sound. Huge disappointment in the RS6, even with the Audi Sport exhaust (made by Akrapovic). The E63S has a nice V8 sound, not as loud as I hoped for in the lower rev range but pretty awesome once you pass 4000 rpm.

    Also, a new RS6 is coming (probably next year)...


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    bluelines:

    Thanks wink

    How do you rate it against an RS6? Any specific plus or minus points?

    Wasn't the advice to go in the first place for a real family transporter then having huge roof boxes all over the singles , young, partying , people 's type of cars Smiley


    --

     964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    Gnil:
    bluelines:

    Thanks wink

    How do you rate it against an RS6? Any specific plus or minus points?

    Wasn't the advice to go in the first place for a real family transporter then having huge roof boxes all over the singles , young, partying , people 's type of cars Smiley

    The RS6 is a family transporter. It just happens to have a big engine too Smiley The same applies to the E63 station wagon or a SUV. Oh dear, I always said I will never get a SUV Smiley

    The S3 actually works far better than expected as a family car. I have come to realise that having less space is not always negative, because it meant that the better half had to prioritise between an extra pair of (unnecessary) shoes or more nappies Smiley Hence we have been hauling around less nice-to-have things, but focused on the must-have things. We can now even ditch the roof box, but the rear compartment is 3 cm too short for our new twin buggy Smiley 

    When we don't need a buggy we use the 911. The looks and comments from people who see us with the twins strapped into their child seats in the rear adds to the experience. Some people almost pop their eyes out of their sockets when we come out of the car and pull out two small boys from behind the seats Smiley The family sports car Smiley


    --

    2017 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS | GT Silver Metallic - The GT3 Killah!
    2013 Audi S3 | Glacier White


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    bluelines:. Oh dear, I always said I will never get a SUV Smiley

    When we don't need a buggy we use the 911. The looks and comments from people who see us with the twins strapped into their child seats in the rear adds to the experience. Some people almost pop their eyes out of their sockets when we come out of the car and pull out two small boys from behind the seats Smiley The family sports car Smiley

    Ok, spill the beans Smiley which SUV is on the way? GLC63AMG?

    the 911 is great with kids below the age of 10 and nothing to carry... whan you have no kids, the GT3 is perfect.Smiley


    --

    GT Lover, Porsche fan

    991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)

    Cayenne GTS 2014


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    I remember all the trips I took with my little girls in the back of the old air cooled 991s. Good for you!  And yes, it also turned a lot of heads. Especially when the two dachshunds also came along. 


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    bluelines:
    Gnil:
    bluelines:

    Thanks wink

    How do you rate it against an RS6? Any specific plus or minus points?

    Wasn't the advice to go in the first place for a real family transporter then having huge roof boxes all over the singles , young, partying , people 's type of cars Smiley

    The RS6 is a family transporter. It just happens to have a big engine too Smiley The same applies to the E63 station wagon or a SUV. Oh dear, I always said I will never get a SUV Smiley

    The S3 actually works far better than expected as a family car. I have come to realise that having less space is not always negative, because it meant that the better half had to prioritise between an extra pair of (unnecessary) shoes or more nappies Smiley Hence we have been hauling around less nice-to-have things, but focused on the must-have things. We can now even ditch the roof box, but the rear compartment is 3 cm too short for our new twin buggy Smiley 

    When we don't need a buggy we use the 911. The looks and comments from people who see us with the twins strapped into their child seats in the rear adds to the experience. Some people almost pop their eyes out of their sockets when we come out of the car and pull out two small boys from behind the seats Smiley The family sports car Smiley

    This is why the 911 remains such a popular sports car. No other car in its class allows for this level of practicality.


    Re: Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018) - Short Review (incomplete)

    Actually the California is more practical since a couple of umbrella strollers easily fit in the trunk which is impossible in a 911, this might seem insignificant but for us it was invaluable.


     
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