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    New brakes needed, again

    The dealer is saying that after 12k miles, 70% of it being highway miles mind you, my 09 CTTS needs new rear and front brakes yet again... First time around we changed them after 18k miles (30% highway). Makes no sense to me... $4.5k for the lot...


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    Did your brake wear indicator light come on?

     


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    Not yet, they say it will come on in 1-2k miles...


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    Are you binary with the brake pedal??


    --

    991 (what a car!) XC90 - Black/Black 2 kids, 1 dog


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    SciFrog:

    The dealer is saying that after 12k miles, 70% of it being highway miles mind you, my 09 CTTS needs new rear and front brakes yet again... First time around we changed them after 18k miles (30% highway). Makes no sense to me... $4.5k for the lot...

    Heavy car...lots of power...but 4.5k USD??? Do you have ceramic brakes? Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    KMM:

    Did your brake wear indicator light come on?

     

    I would wait for the light. Could be premature money grabbing from the dealership..


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    RC:
    SciFrog:

    The dealer is saying that after 12k miles, 70% of it being highway miles mind you, my 09 CTTS needs new rear and front brakes yet again... First time around we changed them after 18k miles (30% highway). Makes no sense to me... $4.5k for the lot...

    Heavy car...lots of power...but 4.5k USD??? Do you have ceramic brakes? Smiley

    $4.5k would surely be much too expensive for changing all pads and all cast iron discs but too cheap (and, at 18k miles, much too soon) to be changing pads and all PCCB discs?  Smiley

    Do we have the whole story here?
    If we do, there may be a case for changing the dealer rather than changing the brakes again.  Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    fritz:
    RC:
    SciFrog:

    The dealer is saying that after 12k miles, 70% of it being highway miles mind you, my 09 CTTS needs new rear and front brakes yet again... First time around we changed them after 18k miles (30% highway). Makes no sense to me... $4.5k for the lot...

    Heavy car...lots of power...but 4.5k USD??? Do you have ceramic brakes? Smiley

    $4.5k would surely be much too expensive for changing all pads and all cast iron discs but too cheap (and, at 18k miles, much too soon) to be changing pads and all PCCB discs?  Smiley

    Do we have the whole story here?
    If we do, there may be a case for changing the dealer rather than changing the brakes again.  Smiley

     

    I was joking...I don't have a clue how the dealer could charge 4500 USD for changing all brake discs and pads. Smiley

    The Cayenne Turbo S brake discs are expensive indeed but 4500 USD???


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    These are not the ceramic brakes, the regular ones...

    $4.5k is the going rate for all 4 pads and rotors, this is the Turbo S brakes.

    Went to the dealer last night, the pads are fine but the disks have a "lip" and the mechanic says the lip will trigger the sensors very soon. Funny enough they had a GTS parked in front that had even bigger "lip" on the front rotors...

     

    Still I am not very happy about having to change brakes so quickly where most of my driving is highway although with some traffic at times. I will wait until the light goes comes on. Between this and rear tires last 7-8k miles that makes the car totally ridiculous for a daily driver...


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    As much as I do appreciate my friends like Leawood and Dave who have let me drive their Porches and I still do plan to get one of my own; I just can't help but mention that my daily driver (Ford Focus Wagon) has 327,000 miles (about a half mil in kilometers) and I spent $50 on new front brake pads while the rear brake shoes are still original to the car. There are some advantages to maintaining a daily driver which is so powerless as to barely need brakes!!


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    Gladstone:

    As much as I do appreciate my friends like Leawood and Dave who have let me drive their Porches and I still do plan to get one of my own; I just can't help but mention that my daily driver (Ford Focus Wagon) has 327,000 miles (about a half mil in kilometers) and I spent $50 on new front brake pads while the rear brake shoes are still original to the car. There are some advantages to maintaining a daily driver which is so powerless as to barely need brakes!!

    But is it fun to drive? Smiley

    Each day, when I drive to work and back home, I have a smile on my face. This smile only goes away when I fuel up the car. Smiley Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    Gladstone:

    As much as I do appreciate my friends like Leawood and Dave who have let me drive their Porches and I still do plan to get one of my own; I just can't help but mention that my daily driver (Ford Focus Wagon) has 327,000 miles (about a half mil in kilometers) and I spent $50 on new front brake pads while the rear brake shoes are still original to the car. There are some advantages to maintaining a daily driver which is so powerless as to barely need brakes!!

    Seems like bragging about your ugly wife's fidelity...


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    I think his (Gladstone's) point was that brake pads are and should be cheap and easy to replace.  Porsche's are super simple to replace.  I have always done mine.  If you can change your wiper blades, headlight bulbs or air cleaner you can change brake pads.

    And one person's idea of ugly is another ones love, btw.  If you like cars and you love to drive then whatever car you have is fun to drive.  As car lovers and drivers we should never question why one person enjoys another car over what we drive.  Tastes vary but we all share a passion for driving.  I have had lots of second cars which I liked and were a blast to drive.  Honda civics in my past come to mind.  Even an old 77 mustang II was a blast back in High school after my 914 was hit by a drunk.

    While I NEVER had to change PCCB pads in LAST 997S, and my dealer said they would likely last the life of the car, I have changed them on my 996 and prior cars.  Less than $200 for a set and it took me about five minutes in labor for each corner. (certainly Turbo pads are more but not that much).  Unless the rotors are warped (car shimmies when you brake etc.) there is no need to replace the rotor. 

    You may also be able to turn them on a lathe just to remove the pip you mention - but the sensors are inside the pads so I call BS on the rotors causing the light to go on.  No way you are using the brakes that fast unless you are on the gas at the same time, lol - or binary with them as mentioned.  Again, taking the rotors out and having the machine work done is about $30 per corner (what the dealer would pay the machine shop unleess the have the lathe).  Brand new rotors are a few hundred dollars each and labor to replace them is even simpler.  It should be at most a $1200 job including new rotors which I doubt are needed.

    Wait until the brake light turns on. - Try an independent shop.  Simple job and a good way to get to know them.  Most will have worked at the local dealership. 


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    "I think his (Gladstone's) point was that brake pads are and should be cheap and easy to replace."

    Why should they be cheap to replace?

    We're not speaking of the same item, either in quality or performance.

    I agree that pads are easy, not quite as easy on a 991 as a 997, but find any comparison between a six figure performance car vs a 15 or 20K "grocery getter" to be ludicrous in the extreme.

     


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    Sorry but these days rotors always need to be changed when pads are gone too. I have had numerous cars (non porsches too) and never once pads were changed but not rotors in the last 10 years.


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    Okay - they should not be 20 times as expensive (or 10x as much at the dealer than at an indepent shop for the same service - is that a better comparison).  It is just a car for the road and comparisons when 20 times as much are not unfounded IMHO.  It is the same basic technology and material, not counting PCCB of course.

    The Porsche dealers are way too proud of their 'tech' and parts and labor.


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    SciFrog:

    Sorry but these days rotors always need to be changed when pads are gone too. I have had numerous cars (non porsches too) and never once pads were changed but not rotors in the last 10 years.

     

    I was unaware of this Smiley. I always thought pads would outlive rotors by a long shot as long as the pads were change in time. On my 997S I've done the brakes at the dealer and they didn't change my rotorsSmiley


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    CORRECT!


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    What I really meant was made up of multiple parts, but the great communicator I am not.

    First, for anyone familiar with normal wear items like breaks, my pos(car) is clearly not subjected to much of anything but highway miles. I do not believe that the car was actually built with "wonder brakes". It is on it's third alternator and third or fourth set of headlight bulbs (I change them so fast, I have lost count). I really have lost count of the number of tires and other suspension related items replaced. I have also never seen a good reason to repair body damage from a couple of deer and several other varmints. Everything wears out, I have just been surprised at the long life of the brakes.

    Second, certainly brake pads are more expensive; but not that much more expensive. However, this has a great deal to do with how much maintenance you do yourself (leading into point three).

    Third, if you don't want to source a good quality independent mechanic; but prefer the undoubted sense of quality from an authorized dealer, you may well subject yourself to that sense of a major screwing that has been known to occur with many dealers.

    Fourth, if you need the undoubted sense of quality from an authorized dealer, see if there is another authorized dealer within a reasonable distance for you to visit.

    Fifth, if you don't like the price, consider a cheaper car.

    Sixth, don't you ever bring my ugly wife's fidelity into question.   Smiley


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    Lastly - if it really cost $4500 for brakes every 20K miles everyone would be buying the 8K ceramic barkes which never wear out on the street - pads or rotors.  Else at 100K miles you would be almost 25K into brake rotors and pads with labor.

    Not reasonable. 

     


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    All I can do is not do the brakes now, and get them done later at a good local mechanic I know for a bit cheaper... Can't wait for a Range Rover Sport Diesel hybrid...


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    The one thing that has held the test of time on my 2005 997S are my ceramic brakes.  Sadly, however, my 997S is, again, in the shop, as of last Thursday, for other reasons.


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    Alan, sorry to hear that; best of wishes for a speedy and hopefully reasonably economical recovery. crying (best emoticon I could find, it says crying, but it looks as grouchy as me after a needed annual chiropractor adjustment) at least drop a PM about the issue (if you don't want to discuss board wide; just for my curiosity)

    SciFrog, I really wasn't trying to disparage the brand; but perhaps a little jab at the dealer. You might want to wait on the local mechanics analysis of the problem and estimate of remediation before getting too far along that track??


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    I do not post a lot here though this threads gets a little bit weird for me to understand, what is going here.

    Others on this thread have already shared (my) experience as to when pads and rotors would be replaced. I do some DE in the year, which means I have to have my pads replaced, say, at least 4 - 5 times a year. My car (997) is now in its 8th year and I had to replace my rotors for the first time after five years. So, it seems very odd to me that you have to have pads and rotors replaced out of an "ordinary" DD wear and tear situation.

    I am looking forward to following this thread and its outcome...


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    rhino:
    SciFrog:

    Sorry but these days rotors always need to be changed when pads are gone too. I have had numerous cars (non porsches too) and never once pads were changed but not rotors in the last 10 years.

     

    I was unaware of this Smiley. I always thought pads would outlive rotors by a long shot as long as the pads were change in time. On my 997S I've done the brakes at the dealer and they didn't change my rotorsSmiley

    Surprising claim. The first time I exchanged my rotors on a Porsche was at 40000 km on my former Cayenne turbo S. Before that, I had exchanged the pads only twice. 

    I also exchanged the pads a couple of times on older Porsche cars I owned, never the rotors.

    I'm afraid I cannot agree.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche Panamera Turbo S, Cayenne GTS (958), BMW X3 35d (2012), Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    "rotors always need to be changed when pads are gone " - perhaps if you keep driving after the pads are gone.  You will destroy the rotors very quickly if the pads are totally gone.  While this seems obvious to all of us there may be some drivers who simple drive with 'extra Noise' for a few extra days and grind down the metal rotors.  Regardless - if the pads never wear down to the rivets and the brakes don't see abuse (Porsche brakes are way overbuilt and hard to abuse on the street at normal speed) the rotors could easily last the life of the car.  The only service I ever did on the PCCB was brake fliud change once after seven years.


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    Well this has not been my experience on all my cars... On the Cayenne, the pads looked like they were about half way used, but the dealer says the rotors are almost gone... There is a lip on the rotors as the mechanic said but I do not know if this is normal or not.


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    From my experience, on the Boxster and the 911 the front pads are replaced at around 35.000 km and the rear pads at around 50.000km. That's for road driving.

    The discs/rotors needed replacing once in 100.000km on the Boxster 986 but there is already a lip on the 987 at 35.000km. The additional wear on the 987 may be due to the fact that it is automatic with lots of city driving.

    Workshop manuals advise to change the discs when the wear is 1mm on each side, but many owners ignore that. If you change the pads and soon after the discs, you need new pads too, in spite of the fact that they are not worn because the surfaces will not match.

    I don't know about the Cayenne but I owned a Mercedes ML Gen.1 which had a huge appetite for pads and discs. It was a major expense. The combination of a very heavy car with automatic transmission and lots of start/stop driving is no good for the life of brakes.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    I'll soon need new pads all round after 30,000 miles, of which about 3/4 is motorway.  The parts are over £1000 but fitting is hardly any more, even at an OPC.  I agree with Carlos - replace pads whenever needed but always replace pads if replacing rotors. 


    --

    Gen II Cayman S


    Re: New brakes needed, again

    Gladstone:

    Alan, sorry to hear that; best of wishes for a speedy and hopefully reasonably economical recovery. crying (best emoticon I could find, it says crying, but it looks as grouchy as me after a needed annual chiropractor adjustment) at least drop a PM about the issue (if you don't want to discuss board wide; just for my curiosity)

    SciFrog, I really wasn't trying to disparage the brand; but perhaps a little jab at the dealer. You might want to wait on the local mechanics analysis of the problem and estimate of remediation before getting too far along that track??

    No problem Gladstone.  The error that I got was a "return to workshop" message, or something along those lines.  So I was prepared for the worst, but luckily my service tech called back and the repair was only $300.  I'll report back on what the details were.  While in the shop, I told them about the hot start problem, and they said that the cable assembly was already replaced, so they suspected the starter.  They replaced it, and I'll see if my hot start problem is gone.  I got use to waiting for the car to cool down before I try to start it. Smiley


    --

    2005 997S Blk/Blk


     
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