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    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    I tend to believe he is dealing with his Porsche dealer, PCNA hasn't contact him directly or vice versa. 

    His descriptions on the replies he is getting is very inline with shoddy dealers.

     


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    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    He has also been in contact with PCNA and PAG in Germany. Still they stay arrogant as usual.


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    It's even on Jalopnik now: http://jalopnik.com/the-saga-of-the-lemon-911-and-one-mans-quest-for-just-1564141012

    This is becoming quite a big deal on the internet. I even had a car guy friend send it to me by email.

    The power of social media should not be underestimated. I hope Porsche is aware of this.


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    reginos:

    The problems had a common denominator. Electrics. Either the wiring as such or the ingress of water (perhaps caused by technicians) affecting further electrical functions. Perhaps, the technicians in trying to solve something simple did more damage. Nick shouldn't  allow them to change parts blindly and randomly and then act a test driver.

    He took the car to the dealer since the car is in warranty and the shop is expected to fix the issues, thats how it goes. He could not have a clue and should not have a clue of what the causes are and therefore he has to trust the delaer to fix the issues.

    After several visits to the shop and issues continued he contacted PCNA, and PCNA told him that the would fix them.

    After a couple of more visits its clear that they are not able to fix the problems and even causing more, so thats when he contacted PCNA to let them know that they are passed the point of trying to fix the car, he wants an equivalent car like that which he paid for or his money back.

    Nevertheless, once incompetence was established, very soon after IMO he should have proceeded to the second step and reject the product.

    Thats what he did.

    When the workshop cannot fix a series of weird problems once, you might give them a second chance. After that you don't accept to take the car and drive away with it but you formally take the necessary steps to formally reject the product. I don't know how this is done in the USA but if I lived there I would have found within 24 hours and done it. 

    He already did...

    It is not clear with whom Nick is communicating. The customer service liaison of the dealer or of PCNA? I get the impression he is talking to the dealership alone. He should have communicated formally with PCNA and Germany (Ludwigsburg I think is where customer service is) making them aware of his problems and his decision to reject. Perhaps, a lawyer could have helped him draft his letters.

    I guess you are talking without even having watched the videos. He clearly explains his talks with PCNA.

     


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    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    The car is still in his possession. This is wrong. Instead, he should have refused to collect it and initiate his rejection procedure, through his representatives if necessary.

    What I don't agree is that his approach is not deliberate and studied according to his rights. Instead, he is acting with those sporadic videos through the social media to gather sympathy and support, just in case he blackmails Porsche into giving him satisfaction.

    BTW from what he says it is nor clear to me whether he speaks with a customer relations person from the dealership or from PCNA.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    reginos:

    The car is still in his possession. This is wrong. Instead, he should have refused to collect it and proceed with his rejection procedure, through his representatives if necessary.

    What I don't agree is that his approach is not deliberate and studied according to his rights. Instead, he is acting with those sporadic videos through the social media to gather sympathy and support, just in case he blackmails Porsche into giving him satisfaction.

     

    Leaving the car at the dealership will do nothing. I know a case here which not only changed a thing but now he has a car that he hasn't driven in many months and devaluated, nbut not only that, the delaership iis chaging him an enormous amount for parking because of not picking up the car in all this time. This guy is so pissed he has sued Porsche and signed a public document that he is donating the car to charity no matter what the outcome of the trial is as well as any monetary compensation that he may win.

     

    Also  if you would have followed the videos from the start you would see that he didn't make thses video to gather support and sympathy, that was after the fact, he started with an initial review that was very positive, as his other Porsche car reviews, then the update video was he was still very patient and goodwilled (many wouldn't by that time), but now as is logical he is angry and that shows on his two updates. The videos follow his process little did he know all this was going to happen.


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    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    The main culprit for many of Nick´s issues might´ve been the damaged wiring loom. Nonetheless the car is still not free from issues. I could assume that his local dealer´s workshop might´ve been a bit clumsy tearing apart the entire interior and causing rattles subsequently. What seems to be quite certain though is the amount of miscommunication, lack of customer service and unwillingness to solve the issue in favor of the customer. That, in combination with the technical education of the workshop staff, might be the main issue for Porsche North America here.

    Reginos, I am also a bit puzzled about your statements here. Maybe there is some misunderstanding but I also have difficulties to follow your reasoning here...


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    Ferdie my point is that someone like Nick Murray could have remedied his situation by deliberate and studied steps from the beginning. Especially in the USA, the land of lawyers and lawsuits he could have used the relevant State's lemon law and resolve the problem in one way or other.

    Instead he had his car in and out of the workshop acting as a Guinea pig for their random change of parts without diagnosing the underlying cause. He wasted time and finally he tried through the internet to get satisfaction. My thought also went to the wiring loom as the culprit too, as I mentioned above. If he was more knowledgeable, he would have understood that the technicians were blindly experimenting, and he would decide at an early time to initiate the legal procedure.

    I don't agree with his social media approach for what is basically a commercial dispute, even if in the end he gets something.

     


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    Bottom line is that here in the US we buy Porsches despite the dealers not because of them.  Here you really do need a factory workshop manual to make certain they do things correctly.  Trust me, I have them all on the PC.

    There is no way they can afford to not replace his car.  Nothing else.  There is no substitute except another Porsche.  My vote is still for the Turbo S.


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    Looks like there will be a solution very soon. Let's hope so... (I still don't trust PCNA)


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    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    The people hitting Porsche's Facebook site leaving messages supporting Nick applied the needed pressure.

    His dealer failed him, PCNA Customer Care failed him, initiating his states Lemon Law got him angry messages from PCNA, finally it took social media to shame Porsche into action.

     

     


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    This will be taught in class someday. 

    The first video he made was free and great advertising for Porsche, truly inspirational and much better than any of the drivel they officially produce and they manage to turn it into the worst possible PR nightmare.

    Hope someone gets fired for that.


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    Nobody will get fired, the BS will resume and the mass production junk from Porsche will continue to sell.

    I expect the Turbo + Macan and most probably the 918 to breakdown at some point. I don't trust KERS system, let alone coming from Porsche.


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    JimFlat6:

    The people hitting Porsche's Facebook site leaving messages supporting Nick applied the needed pressure.

    His dealer failed him, PCNA Customer Care failed him, initiating his states Lemon Law got him angry messages from PCNA, finally it took social media to shame Porsche into action.

     

    Sad but true.

     


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    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    SuzyF:

    Looks like there will be a solution very soon. Let's hope so... (I still don't trust PCNA)

     

    Thanks for the update Suzy, if you find out what the fnal outcome is, please let us know Smiley

     


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    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    Nick just posted an update on Facebook. (I personally think he's being way too respectful to PCNA again, but that's just my opinion. He did get an almost full refund, so maybe he's just relieved things have been solved now)

     

    The video is still up but I have put a note on it that this is resolved. I think I will leave the video up and point people to a new video to talk about what happened.

    In the end TV and Radio were wanting to get involved as well and it had frankly gotten a lot bigger than I had ever expected so I was glad to get the call.

    This started because PCNA were offering me what they thought I would get a arbertation which is the standard offer for these sorts of cases, where as my position was that I felt what I had been through was more than just a standard case and wanted a full refund or replacement. People can decide themselves if they agree or not.

    I can certainly see PCNA's point of view and I hope they could see mine. The difference between what was offered and what I wanted was just a few thousand dollars.

    It certainly was not worth the mess that this all turned into sadly.

    Anyway they have not bribed me or asked me take down the video or anything and because they came to the party and I do still believe in their product I am happy to make a new video saying so. Also to thank everyone for all your support.

    I did not want to damage the brand, and I think I need to help people understand that my case was pretty much a one off. Too much hate has been thrown at Porsche for the wrong reasons here and I would like to do what I can to fix that. Their product is good, I just had a disagreement with them over how serious my particular case was. That has been fixed now and I can move on to a new car.

     


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    Nick put it right. His case is likely a "one off".  I doubt Porsche could build another 991 with so many bizarre and increasingly numerous defects even if they tried to. Porsche parts departments don't stock gas masks and shower mats for their cars yet, lets hope they won't have to.

    Nick stumbled into a corporate swamp where the communications and decision matrix of his Dealer, PCNA, and Porsche HQ likely all had disparate agendas, different personalities, non aligned goals and each with their own response times. Looks like someone at Porsche didn't take ownership and resolve this until it grew into a media shidd storm. It might tell Porsche that they need a "Inspector General" over Customer Care  to make sure that the next "customer experience" like Nicks is turned into a positive PR story ...rather than ending as a story about how they tried to shoot the wounded and when caught by the media suddenly decided to do the right thing. That's how it looks looks for now. Someone inside Porsche should step forward and show some goodwill beyond just a even numbers financial transaction.


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    I wonder what's going to happen to his car now.


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    reginos:
    SuzyF:
    reginos:

    Your experiences are unnerving for sure. However, you are an exception as there are thousands of happy owners who wouldn't look at anything else. 

    I owned a first generation facelifted Mercedes ML and it was the worst car I had for reliability and failures. As this model had been very popular in the market, when I mention my experiences to others they cannot comprehend because theirs have been perfect. Most moved to the replacement model too.

    Out of every production run there are lemons and anyone could get one. The luck of the draw. But we shouldn't generalize from the specific and draw absolute conclusions from vocal complaints.

    --

    "Form follows function"

    Problem is not that there are lemons in every production run. That's certainly true. The problem here is how Porsche deals with it. Doesn't matter if it is the dealership, PCNA or PAG. This should NOT happen in any company. Period! If it happens to Nick, it can happen to all of us (or at least people in the U.S. because I think the main problem here is PCNA).

    I am sure Nick could have handled it much better if he was knowledgeable about cars. Sometimes you have to lead the technicians and question their verdicts. This wouldn't have absolved the workshop but he would get less harassment.

    I cannot see how in the USA, that is supposed to be the most demanding market in the world, someone cannot get satisfaction for an obvious issue with a product. The whole story reminds of the saying "God helps those who help themselves".

    If you save up 5 years just to get ur dream car, and after that u get problems after problems and then find a pool in ur car..... I am sure u would smile at the local dealership and ask them nicely to see if they could help out on the problem?  and work wtih them through to fix it..... ANY BRANDS OF ANY CARS is not acceptable!!  He made the good decision to let the world knows his problem, and hope Porsche make a reasonable solution with him.  Any other electrical issues are understandable.... come on!  Pool in the car??   and you said Nick could have handled it much better? u got to be Saint from heaven.....SmileySmiley


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    apias:

    I wonder what's going to happen to his car now.

    He should post the vin number. I hope it doesn't end up for sale as an "executive demo".


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    Hundreds of thousands happy customers, then one guy bites the lemon and everyone goes apeshit. Social media mass hysteria.

    I hope his situation is sorted.


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    "I grew up in small town New Zealand. I was the village idiot. Things have gone downhill from there..." - He has humour indecision


    --

    2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | S-PASM (-20mm) | PSE
    2010 Audi S5 cabrio | Ibis White


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    reginos:

    Suzy, I am sure if Nick was a member of rennteam he would have gotten good guidance both about the actual car problems and the way of dealing with Porsche. 

     

     

    I expect my dealer to act in an way that doesn't require me to log in to a forum to learn how to deal with them. Smiley


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    SuzyF:

    Nick just posted an update on Facebook. (I personally think he's being way too respectful to PCNA again, but that's just my opinion. He did get an almost full refund, so maybe he's just relieved things have been solved now)

     

    The video is still up but I have put a note on it that this is resolved. I think I will leave the video up and point people to a new video to talk about what happened.

    In the end TV and Radio were wanting to get involved as well and it had frankly gotten a lot bigger than I had ever expected so I was glad to get the call.

    This started because PCNA were offering me what they thought I would get a arbertation which is the standard offer for these sorts of cases, where as my position was that I felt what I had been through was more than just a standard case and wanted a full refund or replacement. People can decide themselves if they agree or not.

    I can certainly see PCNA's point of view and I hope they could see mine. The difference between what was offered and what I wanted was just a few thousand dollars.

    It certainly was not worth the mess that this all turned into sadly.

    Anyway they have not bribed me or asked me take down the video or anything and because they came to the party and I do still believe in their product I am happy to make a new video saying so. Also to thank everyone for all your support.

    I did not want to damage the brand, and I think I need to help people understand that my case was pretty much a one off. Too much hate has been thrown at Porsche for the wrong reasons here and I would like to do what I can to fix that. Their product is good, I just had a disagreement with them over how serious my particular case was. That has been fixed now and I can move on to a new car.

    Thanks Suzy. Just goes to show what a nice guy Nick has been in this situation, and I think too he is relieved.  

    Wonder if he is going to get another 991 or leave the brand. If I were PCNA I would offfer him another 991 at a discount so he stays in the brand because that will send an image that even Nick believes it was just a one off and that he still loves the brand and the car. This is imprtant IMHO

    Like I said before, any brand can have a lemon, the problem is how the brand handles those custoners that get a lemon that was the problem here. Thanks to social media they were "forced" to do the right thing.


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    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    The chance that he will get another Porsche is quite big actually. He still believes in the quality of the brand Porsche and is convinced his case was a one-off. The only other car that's on his radar is the M4. (He owned an M3 before)


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    Thank you for posting Nick's statement. Actually, from what he says it transpires that he wasn't ignored by PCNA as was the general impression, but that they couldn't Immediately agree on the amount, which happens at the begining in negotiations, and the monetary difference wasn't even that big. 

    PCNA should put him in a 991 S at around cost price and use the situation to their advantage. 


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    There are so MANY excellent customer service opportunities for Porsche here!  Any good manager should be able to turn this situation into a GIANT win for Porsche.  If you have any questions Porsche send me a PM.  You are welcome!

    PS - willing to do PR work for a discounted car or even an extended warranty!


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    No comments from RC recently. Where'd he go - Miami again?

    Got to love the power of social media!


    --

    2013 BMW 750 xDrive & 2012 x5 & 2014 991 TTS Cab. Range Rover V8 on order June14 - GT3 or Huracan to add next......decisions decisions decisions.....


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    Porsche's official statement on Facebook:

    Thank you everyone for responding to Mr. Murray's video. We appreciate your passion and our community's drive for excellent customer service. We at Porsche have always sought excellence in all that we do. We know you expect it of us. And when we don't meet that standard, we make every effort to improve. We want you to know we’ve offered to repurchase or replace Mr. Murray’s car, and we hope we can reignite his passion for Porsche.


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


    Re: Porsche should be ashamed!

    And a new video from Nick:

    http://youtu.be/iJjxeyC2W8s


    --

    Suzy

    2013 Porsche Boxster S (MT) | Basalt black metallic
    2014 Audi A6 Avant 3.0 BiTDI Quattro | Moonshine blue metallic
     


     
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