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    Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    Say hello to the Pajun (working/development title).

    Porsche is developing a smaller sports sedan below the Panamera.

    Top model is rumored to have a V8 or a bi-turbo charged V6, AWD will be optional.

    Release should be not earlier than 2014 or 2015.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    We can call it the new 959 or 959n :)
    --

    There is no try. Just do.


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

     Hope they start with a clean sheet and don't try to design a mini Panamera. But great news.


    --

    2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso delivery Sept. 2011


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

     Smaller as in Audi S5 type?


    --


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

     Great News!  Thank`s RC  


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

     2014 or 2015 just seems so far away....  still, great news.


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    Carlos from Spain:

     Smaller as in Audi S5 type?


    You can compare Pajun to A5 sportback. Porsche is now VW - we will get new volume models. Cajun and Pajun should be sold in mass. Christian if this is a dream ??
    --

    AM
    www.aldo-yachting.de


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    I don't care about mass...the 911 is actually mass production too...I care about driving fun and performance and I hope Porsche doesn't disappoint in that domain.  


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    IMO it's a joy to enjoy Porsche motoring in as many classes as possible. A Cayenne is a SUV with Porsche character and similarly the Panamera in the limousine class. They are neither BMW,Mercedes, Audi nor Jaguar in spite of sharing the same class.

    Looking at production volumes alone is a kind of motoring snobbery. HIgher production volumes often means higher technical perfection and better problem solving.

    Is there a better honed sportcar than the 20.000 units p.a. 911? I don't think so.


    --
     

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    As time passes and more details emerge, my perception is that Porsche has come out more favourably than Audi following the nearly-completed acquisition of Porsche by the VW Group.


    --


    RT Moderator 
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm sports suspension/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    I agree with Aldo.  It is beginning to bother me that Porsche under VW is pushing too hard to get into every conceivable market segment.  Starting to remind me of Audi and BMW.  There is a uniqueness to smaller numbers and more focused model lines.  Guess I am an elitist, but when I see BMWs and Audis everywhere in my area of the U.S., I think my Porsche is more unique and desirable.  Flame away, but that's my view at the moment....


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    Wonderbar:

    I agree with Aldo.  It is beginning to bother me that Porsche under VW is pushing too hard to get into every conceivable market segment.  Starting to remind me of Audi and BMW.  There is a uniqueness to smaller numbers and more focused model lines.  Guess I am an elitist, but when I see BMWs and Audis everywhere in my area of the U.S., I think my Porsche is more unique and desirable.  Flame away, but that's my view at the moment....

     

    I understand you very well and if I wouldn't live in a neighborhood/region, where people are the way they are (curious, envious, etc.), I would probably think the same way. 

    Unfortunately the world seems to change, being "different" isn't always outright something positive anymore, on the contrary. 
     

    I just hope that VW understands that a Porsche, even the SUVs and sedans, creates certain expectations regarding performance, technology and to a point, design. If they just rebadge their Audi products and add some Porsche tune-up to it, it won't work, at least not for long. Even Porsche SUVs and sedans need to be somehow unique products which can easily be identified with the Porsche brand. Looking at the Bentley though, I think VW got it right. Not so much with Lamborghini, the Audi R8 was really a completely unnecessary product in my opinion (I hope Kreso doesn't kill me now... Smiley). 

    So if Audi takes care of sedan development, I don't have a problem with that. As long as the resulting Porsche models aren't just Audi "by-products" but real Porsches.

    Time will tell but I am confident that VW and especially Piech know what is at stake here. Many many customers are watching right now very closely what is going on at Porsche. They know that very well.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    A car company these days needs to either innovate or die. One way Porshce innovates is with new model segments. The Cayenne is a unique approach to the SUV and the Panamera is a unique approach to the four door sports sedan and if the "Pajun" (yuck!) is a unique approach to its class, it should do great.

    And keep the sports car innovations coming.


    --

    "People ignore design that ignores people."


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

     

    some ideaporsche-pajun-illustration.jpg


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    Hmm, if the Pajun will have a 550-600hp twin turbo V8 standard, awd, 4 doors, 5 seats, around 5 series size, will do 0-60 in under 4 secs, top speed around 190-200 mph, I could care less for anything else.

    Well maybe a big trunk.

     


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    I hope it doesn't look like that..


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    RC:

    I don't care about mass...the 911 is actually mass production too...I care about driving fun and performance and I hope Porsche doesn't disappoint in that domain.  


    I agree completely RC! The Panamara and Cayenne are good examples of what they can do to introduce "Porscheness" into a new market segment. These are excellent vehicles that provide a great driving experience, thoughtful design and durability. Exclusivity should not be part of the equation. I am concerned that VW management may try to milk the brand equity without delivering on these qualities that we have come to expect. I guess we will see soon enough. I'm looking forward to the Cajun introduction and how that design gets handled.

    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    Whoopsy:

    Hmm, if the Pajun will have a 550-600hp twin turbo V8 standard, awd, 4 doors, 5 seats, around 5 series size, will do 0-60 in under 4 secs, top speed around 190-200 mph, I could care less for anything else.

    Well maybe a big trunk.

     

    I'm afraid the most powerful "Cajun" engine will be a turbo charged V6 with 400 hp at max (right now I heard power figures of 340-350 hp).


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    For the Cajun I would be more interested in a diesel offering, but I have my doubts that a Porsche diesel will make it to the US anytime soon.

    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    GM Austin:
    For the Cajun I would be more interested in a diesel offering, but I have my doubts that a Porsche diesel will make it to the US anytime soon.

     

    What I meant is actually that the "Pajun" will very likely get the same engines the "Cajun" gets, for marketing reasons. Although, I also heard that a 400 hp V8 could make it into the "Pajun", so maybe I'm wrong. Everything depends on weight of these two new models and of course the price tag.

    If the "Pajun" top model stays below 100k, it could be a success. The "Cajun" top model very likely needs to stay below 80k to be successful. Unless of course Porsche has a different marketing strategy with higher prices.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    Porsche is after those BMW 3 series shoppers. Big money there!


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    It looks more like a 5 series equivalent to me (rather than a 3 series rival).


    --


    997.1 C2S
     GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    RC:
    Whoopsy:

    Hmm, if the Pajun will have a 550-600hp twin turbo V8 standard, awd, 4 doors, 5 seats, around 5 series size, will do 0-60 in under 4 secs, top speed around 190-200 mph, I could care less for anything else.

    Well maybe a big trunk.

     

    I'm afraid the most powerful "Cajun" engine will be a turbo charged V6 with 400 hp at max (right now I heard power figures of 340-350 hp).

     

    Then it's a failure. Pajun will be a 5 series fighter and the hot version can pose a great threat to the M5.

    Did Porsche changed their tune on Panamera? In the beginning they say it's NOT a M5 competitor, but a 7series competitor. But it sees Porsche has been using M5 as the target for Panamera's performance.

    So Porsche is skipping the mid size segment and just do the 7 series big sedan and the 3 series small sedan with the Pajun?


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    Whoopsy:
    RC:
    Whoopsy:

    Hmm, if the Pajun will have a 550-600hp twin turbo V8 standard, awd, 4 doors, 5 seats, around 5 series size, will do 0-60 in under 4 secs, top speed around 190-200 mph, I could care less for anything else.

    Well maybe a big trunk.

     

    I'm afraid the most powerful "Cajun" engine will be a turbo charged V6 with 400 hp at max (right now I heard power figures of 340-350 hp).

     

    Then it's a failure. Pajun will be a 5 series fighter and the hot version can pose a great threat to the M5.

    Did Porsche changed their tune on Panamera? In the beginning they say it's NOT a M5 competitor, but a 7series competitor. But it sees Porsche has been using M5 as the target for Panamera's performance.

    So Porsche is skipping the mid size segment and just do the 7 series big sedan and the 3 series small sedan with the Pajun?

    I think that Porsche would be much more inclined to build a car which it wants to build than to target a model some other manufacturer builds. 

    The Cayenne went beyond anything any other maker offered and, despite an early impression that the Panamera had the Mercedes Benz CSL in its sights, the Panamera also goes beyond anything else out there.

    Why would Porsche want to target another car when drawing up the concept of the Pajun? Smiley


    --

    fritz


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    Any rumors about any new Panamera changes for the Frankfurt show?  I am sure Porsche will show a Panamera S Hybrid and a Panamera Turbo S (the one in New York wasn't that exciting), but any other new options coming along by Frankfurt?


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    There a no new options or even substantial changes in approach to Frankfurt apart from the already known and expected thingies like the Diesel and Hybrid etc.
    --
    Kind regards, Conny 

    Porsche 997.2 Turbo S  *  BMW X5 M
     

    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    The Pajun should be, size-wise, somewhere between the BMW 3 series and the BMW 5 series. If Porsche decides to use some bad ass V8 engines, including a turbo charged one, on the Pajun, the 5 series size would be OK to me too.

    I really think that a Pajun or a Cajun or both would be a huge success for Porsche. Even during an economic crisis, these cars could still sell because they are not the top of the line super expensive Porsche models. Let another oil price crisis touch us and you'll understand, Porsche definitely needs smaller and lower priced models for any situation.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    I think Porsche will be clever enough as to steal sales from both D and E segments with the Pajun. If Porsche get the specification right (and they will) they will have a better performing rival for both the 3-series and the 5-series with a more unique and unusual design.

    The target for Porsche is 200.000 units p.a. Not that many in the millions of cars produced in the world but OTOH double their present volume. They must get the 2 new more mainstream models very right.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    Like I said, even if the economy worsens or people get even more envious, smaller models like the Pajun or the Cajun could do the trick, especially in certain markets.

    They could also attract new customers and even lower the average age of customers. 

    I'm also waiting for a Panamera Coupe, I can't believe there is no market for it.

    A two door Coupe, slightly more attractive than the Panamera, same engine options, maybe slightly less weight and for the same money (wishful thinking?).

    I will need a family Porsche sooner or later and while I'm considering the Cayenne Turbo (S), I'm still more inclined to get a 991 Coupe (if kids fit perfectly) or a Panamera Coupe.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Carrera GTS Cabriolet PDK, BMW X5M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S Countryman All4


    Re: Smaller Panamera is coming...a dream come true

    I applaud the new "luxury" GT direction of the new 991, and believe it will perform far better than the current 997 series.  I am certainly tempted, but not enough so to trade my Cayenne Turbo S (2009 model).  Related to this thread, for now I remain more tempted by a four door Panamera--not a coupe or a "Pajun".  I will wait for the next iteration of the Panamera and then decide either on that or another Cayenne. 

    Why?  As I have aged--even though I am in good physical condition--I have come to want more luxury and space in my cars.  I enjoy taking my family to nice destinations--we just returned from a 900 mile trip in the Cayenne--and driving other couples to restaurants, events, etc.  I can enjoy power and performance when I drive alone.  And in the large metropolitan area where we live, I (whether it is true or not) feel safer in a larger car. 

    I do have two other vintage Porsches which I drive occasionally, so I get my smaller car "fix" from those.

    Having said all of this, unexpected pleasures are the stuff of a happy life, and I could well be posting a different view (and car) before I know it.  I love to be wrong!


     
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