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    Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    First as a frame of reference, I am an over-the-top audiophile, my system(s-- ) include Linn tt with Koetsu Rosewood, CJ tube pre amp, Martin Logan/Quad/Thiel/Apogee etc., etc. So if you are not into this stuff, then please ignore this thread and/or just take my comments with a big grain of salt. This is all in the spirit of "in my humble opinions" and "YMMV". No flame please.

    Forget the sound processing, it is terrible as it alters the tonal balance, and makes mid range hollow.

    High/mid is a little rough but totally acceptable consider the modest cost of this system. The bass is boomy and is much improved by lowering rear seats' backs. Whether because of space or esthetic issues, the bass reflex ports come out right behind the rear seats' backs!! This creates a nice boomy chamber that degrades definition & tightness of the mid bass. All in my very humble opinions of course.

    I have not had time to really play with the system, but for my ears, neutral setting with the rear seats' backs down is best. The bass is still a little generous but I love it because I tend to listen to UB40 when I drive.

    I prefer the soundfield (voice/instruments) to be a little more towards the front (meaning voice appearing to come from more towards the front windshield area) than is the default speakers setup and setting of this Bose system. I played with the fader but was not happy with the result, and therefore have left fader setting at default (middle). It appears (correct me if I am wrong) that the bass comes out more from the back speakers and if you adjust fader , you actually do not just bring the soundstage to front but alters the tonal balance as well. (Again, someone corrects me if I am wrong.)

    I am very happy with this option and highly recommend it. Don't expect the high resolution, pristine mid/high of an ultra expensive aftermarket mod or high end home audio system, then you will be happy too. For the record, I have not listened to the base system.

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Quote:
    cannga said: I am an over-the-top audiophile, my system(s-- ) include Linn tt with Koetsu Rosewood, CJ tube pre amp, Martin Logan/Quad/Thiel/Apogee etc., etc.



    I'm similarly situated (all Krell electronics; B&W 802 spkrs, etc), so I wondered what disks you prefer for testing in the Porsche.

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    nice mini report there cannga--

    i'm with both you and ArthurY as a serious audiophile,
    which in the AUTO carries these challenging requirements:

    1) fantastic staging
    2) hyper-clarity
    3) super-tight bass, espec. mid-range
    4) nullified boominess
    5) completely stock-look and functionality



    Arthur: OT -- have you sampled the latest genius from Krell... the Evolution Series?
    i'm currently configuring both Evo pre/amp into LAT-1000s and a Master Reference Sub...

    INSANE.

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Quote:
    igzaklee said:

    i'm currently configuring both Evo pre/amp into LAT-1000s and a Master Reference Sub...

    INSANE.



    Doesn't sound that insane to me.


    (Hey, we could form a Krell subgroup here. My main system is FPB 600 to Thiel Cs 5. Hometheater Pre is Krell HTS, but CJ tube pre for 2 channel.)

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    You guys are way over my head on this sound system stuff but I did notice the very boomy base and just by chance put the seats down and discovered the improvement on my own but it still has too much base for my taste, even with the base reduced 3 levels.

    Overall, I am slightly disappointed in the sound, no where as good as the Bose system in my Audi S8 but I guess its the space that we have to deal with.

    Lately I have been enjoying PSE with the sound system off

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    This is from my views of the Bose in my 987S, but:

    Quote:
    cannga said:Forget the sound processing, it is terrible as it alters the tonal balance, and makes mid range hollow.


    Completely agree. Surround gives more 'presence' to casual listeners, but wrecks the sound stage. It also messes up weak FM radio reception as well. I'm not convinced by the AudioPilot (AP) function. I don't think it works very well, but it doesn't seem to mess up the sound as much as the Surround.
    Quote:
    cannga said:High/mid is a little rough but totally acceptable consider the modest cost of this system. The bass is boomy and is much improved by lowering rear seats' backs.


    I find that the 987S Bass doesn't have enough oomph.... Specifically, things are fine when stationary, but once you get moving, you can't twiddle the EQ enough to compensate for the engine noise. I have to turn the treble down a little to make it listenable, but it's still rubbish. Perhaps this is more of an issue with the 987 as it's a soft-top design and the engine is closer to the back of your head. So most of the time I drive with the stereo off.

    Incidentally, you can get the dealer to re-program the Bose unit in the trunk with the 987 interior image, which is said to make the bass in the 997 less boomy I think. Might be an option to try? Not sure if it would be worse, but it's free and reversable to try it.

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Quote:
    cannga said:I played with the fader but was not happy with the result, and therefore have left fader setting at default (middle). It appears (correct me if I am wrong) that the bass comes out more from the back speakers and if you adjust fader , you actually do not just bring the soundstage to front but alters the tonal balance as well. (Again, someone corrects me if I am wrong.)



    No, you're right. It's annoying, isn't it?

    But I have to say that the sound quality when not moving anywhere is pretty damn good. (I'm a lapsed audiophile too) It's just the lack of adjustability for compensating for real-world driving conditions that bugs me.

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    BTW has anyone listened to/got the Harmon Kardon Logic7 in their (non P car of course) other vehicle? Not especially impressed with the Bose. I had a Harmon Kardon 10 in the BMW 330 Ci I had previously and it wasn't that great either, but reviews say the Logic7 is very good. Anyone got it that can comment?

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Alpine F1 Status all around, and Dynaudio or JM Focal drivers (Utopia Be only)....that should solve your problem

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    There are more COMPLETELY over-the-top audiophiles here than I thought. Love it!

    Quote:
    ajcastaneda said:
    Alpine F1 Status all around, and Dynaudio or JM Focal drivers (Utopia Be only)....that should solve your problem


    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Hi there,

    I don't know about Logic 7 but I am suspicious of the name. The one system that I would love to try is Lexus's Mark Levinson audio system.

    Re. the Porsche's Bose, I still highly recommend it because at least it increases power and, hopefully, drivers' quality over the base system. The Bose's cost is really modest (1300 is how much I paid for my home speakers' wires. (Not the speakers, the wires. ) NO FLAME please.) so I am very happy.

    Quote:
    chickencurry said:
    BTW has anyone listened to/got the Harmon Kardon Logic7 in their (non P car of course) other vehicle? Not especially impressed with the Bose. I had a Harmon Kardon 10 in the BMW 330 Ci I had previously and it wasn't that great either, but reviews say the Logic7 is very good. Anyone got it that can comment?


    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    My E55 had the HK Logic7. In my opinion, sound was average and the Logic7 a gimmick.

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    If it were possible, I would go for automobile versions (doesn't exist) of Wilson Audio's Watt Puppy 7's (I think the Alexandria's are way too over the top), powered by Krell Resolution Amps...and a Linn Unidisk player in-dash (Aston doesn't have a Unidisk though it does have a nice Linn set-up).

    If I had the exhaust of a Mercedes or BMW, I'd go for extensive audio modifications on my car, but since the exhaust sounds so sweet, a pair of Sonus Fabers playing Mozart couldn't touch it. So I'm not going to change anything :-D

    But I'm just dreaming...

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    I do have a (large ) number of audiophile discs but I really just listen to normal discs and radio station of songs I am familiar with. I don't expect much out of this system in terms of the "absolute sound" (Those of you in the "hobby", you know what I mean. ) and was just hoping for reasonable sound with a decent mid bass foundation and power. So this wasn't meant to be a detailed analysis (it shouldn't be considering the name (Bose --Pearsonovitch would be turning over in his grave if he were dead) and the cost). And in this sense, I am happy I got it.
    Quote:
    ArthurY said:
    Quote:
    cannga said: I am an over-the-top audiophile, my system(s-- ) include Linn tt with Koetsu Rosewood, CJ tube pre amp, Martin Logan/Quad/Thiel/Apogee etc., etc.



    I'm similarly situated (all Krell electronics; B&W 802 spkrs, etc), so I wondered what disks you prefer for testing in the Porsche.


    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Until you completely soundproof the entire cabin, the absolute sound isn't coming to be.....I've found that SACD's are great reference discs (even using the normal CD layer). 99% of the time discs that have amazing DSD transfers have equally good redbook transfers....if you like jazz, I would go with the Gene Harris - At Last! SACD and play songs 2 (Never Entered my Mind) and 5 (At Last)...with the first allowing you to gauge overall system clarity (mid to high range piano), and the latter allows you to gauge the soundstage (mix of all instruments in the quintet in this song is superb).

    For classical applications, I would go for any of the Tilson Thomas/SFO Mahler SACD recordings (Symphony 4, Track 1 is phenomenal - there are many opportunities in the track that allow you to feel the movement's texture) or any Mercury Living Presence SACD's. For acoustical applications, put in the Albert King/Stevie Ray Vaughn SACD - it absolutely rocks.

    And this is just redbook - with an Alpine F1 you get DVD Audio (unfortunately no SACD head units yet).

    Let me know if you need any other recommendations.

    -AJ


    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Quote:
    ajcastaneda said:
    I've found that SACD's are great reference discs (even using the normal CD layer).



    Does the 997's CD play SACD (as well as DVD-A, or is that too close to nirvana), or are you referring to hybrids?

    Any idea whether moving an aftermarket SACD/DVA-A player into the 997 is feasible? Will it matter whether you also have the chrono plus option? I believe that chrono gives the sound system additional options.

    While I'm not overwhelmed by cost issues here (like Cannga, I paid $1100 for two 9-foot wire runs for my B&Ws), I definitely do not want to lose any Porsche-centric functionality.

    Any recommendations?

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Quote:
    ArthurY said:
    Quote:
    ajcastaneda said:
    I've found that SACD's are great reference discs (even using the normal CD layer).



    Does the 997's CD play SACD (as well as DVD-A, or is that too close to nirvana), or are you referring to hybrids?

    Any idea whether moving an aftermarket SACD/DVA-A player into the 997 is feasible? Will it matter whether you also have the chrono plus option? I believe that chrono gives the sound system additional options.

    While I'm not overwhelmed by cost issues here (like Cannga, I paid $1100 for two 9-foot wire runs for my B&Ws), I definitely do not want to lose any Porsche-centric functionality.

    Any recommendations?



    I am referring to hybrids. To my knowledge there is no in-dash SACD player. There is a DVD-Audio in dash available (Acura has some OEM stuff) through Alpine F1 - as close to top of the line as you can get (some may argue that McIntosh has a better DAC and doesn't need the expensive, hi-tech circuitry of a F1 chip). It comes down to this - if audio is that important in the vehicle, and you are driving a coupe (no convertibles with hardtops), you can approach living room quality audio. I say approach because you will always have the road and exhaust noise which you cannot isolate unless you are parked, with the engine off. The interior of a vehicle (when stopped) has pretty decent acoustics (the glass is what kill - reflections abound) because of the leather and carpeting.

    If you must have the top of the line for your car and have no budget limits (which it seems like you don't), I suggest going with an Alpine F1 head unit that plays DVD Audio, along with the accompanying F1 amplifier, multimedia manager, and DVD navigation. For speakers I would go with Dynaudios - JM Focal Utopia Berilliums if you plan on leaving the grille off (don't recommend if you have people that love to poke shiny things). There are some design ships out there (I know one main one here in NY) that can fit the units to make it look completely OEM - none of that pimped out I-got-my-head-unit-from-Sears look. I think you will be very, very impressed with the limits of car audio - but it has to be done right.

    If you have any questions, let me know.


    -AJ

    PS - $1100 for 9 foot cable - where they made by Transparent or Kimber?


    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Quote:
    chickencurry said:
    BTW has anyone listened to/got the Harmon Kardon Logic7 in their (non P car of course) other vehicle? Not especially impressed with the Bose. I had a Harmon Kardon 10 in the BMW 330 Ci I had previously and it wasn't that great either, but reviews say the Logic7 is very good. Anyone got it that can comment?



    I have the Logic 7 system in my 530d, it's much better than the HK on my previous 330i. Anytime I want to enjoy music ON THE MOVE, I take the BMW. The 997S is way too noisy.. the coarse chip roads we have here generate almost unbearable tyre noise. The fact that the BMW is much quieter makes the biggest difference. I'm not the audiophile that many here are, but I enjoy my music enough to have specified the bose in the 997 and and logic 7 in the 5, and HK in prev BMWs. These are just my opinions.

    Even sitting in the garage, the Logic 7 system is clearly superior. The biggest difference between the Bose and the Logic 7 is in the bass, where the BMWs subs are "sill mounted" under the front seats. They have a much tighter, deeper sound. No contest. In the mids and highs the BMW is more crisp and creates a better soundscape. Can't remember the speaker count in the Porsche but the BMW has room for 13 and it sounds like they perform as intended. BTW I don't think it's fair to compare the sound in a small sports car to a mid sized sedan.

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Yes, thanks for your information. Interestingly enough the Bose sounded better in the Cayenne Turbo than in the 997s. The vehicle size/geometry also makes a difference, as you say.

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Some great info here - was the 997 Bose setup designed for the fact that passengers are seated in off-centre locations (i.e. not in the middle where true stereo could be enjoyed)... Or is this just a feature of the subjective "processing" filters available to choose from, and not something that is possible in car audio?

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Cant wait to get my new Box with Bose!!! The standard stereo on my car is pretty rubbish!

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Quote:
    chickencurry said:
    The vehicle size/geometry also makes a difference, as you say.




    absolutely. really what cannga's describing as a "fix" to the boooooooomy Bose bass in his 997 is effectively turning the ENTIRE rear (and seating) into a sub!


    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Quote:
    ajcastaneda said:PS - $1100 for 9 foot cable - where they made by Transparent or Kimber?




    Neither; I used JPS Labs for all my interconnects and speaker wire (JPSLabs.com), and only their mid-range wires, at that. Final choice (by my wife) to go with these speaker wires was based on a blind test after a month's break-in (yeah, just like the Porsche, but with no volume limit!). She was able to distinguish these new cables from my old ones (Litz, that cost about $500 20 years ago) with 100% accuracy in about a dozen tests of switching cables. Not only could she tell the wires apart, but she consistently chose the JPS wires as sounding "better" to her across several types of music (classical chamber, classical orchestra, jazz, rock, pop vocal, and opera). This subject, though, should really be moved to a different forum; just wanted to answer your question.

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    I use all Shunyata cables, including their Hydra 8 line conditioner, with the exception of Siltech on my two Veladyne subs. The remainder of my system is Billy Bags, Musical Fidelity (kW series power and Tri Vista CD), Krell DVD Standard and Legacy Whisper speakers. I have all Shunyata power cords, interconnects and speaker cables.

    The old saying with respect to Bose is.... No highs no lows is must be Bose!!!

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Very good and important point I think.
    In my mind, there are two kinds of "sound processing", A. the ones that try to re-create various concert halls and, B. the ones that try to correct for geometry of the environment/room, aka, "room correction". Type A invariably sounds bad, B has more promise but I have no direct experience.

    The one sound processing in the Porsche (FM processing or something like that) sounds terrible. A definite type A. I really have no idea what they try to create here.

    I believe (I'll try to find the article in Absolute Sound/Stereophile) the Mark Levinson system in Lexus is type B. They try to bring soundstage to front, as in windshield/front hood where the singer/violin/etc. materializes. (Someone corrects me if I am wrong.)

    boytronic said:
    Some great info here - was the 997 Bose setup designed for the fact that passengers are seated in off-centre locations (i.e. not in the middle where true stereo could be enjoyed)... Or is this just a feature of the subjective "processing" filters available to choose from, and not something that is possible in car audio?


    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass



    The seatbacks in the up position also act like a sounding board, jumping and thumping with every bass note and every drum beat.

    Quote:
    igzaklee said:
    Quote:
    chickencurry said:
    The vehicle size/geometry also makes a difference, as you say.




    absolutely. really what cannga's describing as a "fix" to the boooooooomy Bose bass in his 997 is effectively turning the ENTIRE rear (and seating) into a sub!




    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    Quote:
    ArthurY said:
    ...She was able to distinguish these new cables from my old ones (Litz, that cost about $500 20 years ago) with 100% accuracy in about a dozen tests of switching cables. Not only could she tell the wires apart, but she consistently chose the JPS wires as sounding "better" to her across several types of music (classical chamber, classical orchestra, jazz, rock, pop vocal, and opera). This subject, though, should really be moved to a different forum; just wanted to answer your question.



    Good thing that she shares your interests, huh?

    In fact I was rather disappointed with the Bose system, I didn't have a direct comparison to the std. system as well nor did I try out your rear seat recommendation.
    Anyways the above mentioned system in the Audi A8, BMW's or MB's Logic7 systems seemed to be generally better. I wouldn't count my money on that though since I checked out these systems quite individually.

    In fact the HK system in Merc's E-class was rated as one of the best factory installed soundsystems here in Germany - you guys might have different choices with the Japanes luxury brands which are less common around here.

    Re: Bose Audio: Brief Review & Solution for Boomy Bass

    It's gotta be better than the standard audio!!!! Cant wait for Bose.....

     
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