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    My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    I came by Stuttgart Performance/RSS to visit Ed's pretty baby yesterday. His car was there for installation of the RSS plenum and Cargraphic exhaust, loud version. This is a prelim. report only; Ed was not there so I did not get a ride in the car.

    I was MOST impressed with the quality of construction of the Cargraphic. From my admittedly amateurish observation--i.e. based on look and feel and knocking on the thing , it oozes quality. Of the 3 front runners: AWE, Cargraphic, Tubi (have not seen Tubi in person), Cargraphic comes closest to the sturdy look of the stock unit . I could see why this thing is the heaviest of the 3.
    BTW, the Cargraphic exhaust has a heat shield, like stock. The other side of the exhaust is the engine (some belt?), so I think it's good to have a heat shield. How protective/effective this is? I don't know but I would assume from the reputation of the company the engineers knew what they were doing.

    Ed's neighborhood's dogs are safe. At idle and not under load, the Cargraphic Loud is NOT loud at all. It does bubble, at a frequency that is lower than stock but not as deep as AWE. I would say if stock bubbling sounds like striking two thin platic/wooden sticks together: wimpy and mute, then Cargraphic is more machine gun like (at least in movies; although I am from VN originally I fortunately have never heard machine gun live), a little deeper than stock, not harsh or raspy. And AWE sounds like a wet bubbling with the deepest sound yet.

    I've been told that droning is reduced if you have a cross pipe between the 2 cans in the back. The stock Porsche exhaust has this cross pipe. I forgot to look when I was at Stuttgart Performance and now don't have a picture. Does anyone know if Cargraphic has a cross pipe?

    I am sure I will have more to add once I get a ride in Ed's car a couple weekends from now (trying to listen to Anthony's too). But so far, I like it! I *think* I have a slight preference for the sound of AWE still (strictly personal preference), but Cargraphic is close enough to AWE that I could see myself getting one, easily.

    AAAHT (Anthony), you got PM. Thanks.

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Nice work my friend!

    Here's some additional info links of RC threads for those who haven't seen them before:


    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Number=287132
    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=997turbo&Number=297163
    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=997turbo&Number=362848

    Also here's some reviews of the Exhausts and Powerkits on some Turbos in GT Purley Porsche:

    http://www.parr-uk.co.uk/parr-media/036-GT-0208.pdf

    As for pics I only have this one, although I think RC posted a few extra in some of the threads listed above.


    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    This is a pic posted by RC:


    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Cann,

    You may want to speak to N2it on the Rennlist board. He had the AWE but switched to a Tubi. He might help you.

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Gregg, my friend, you must give more credit than this. Remember I am *almost* at your level of nuttiness, right? I mean, I didn't have the wheel next to my wife on our bed (LOL thanks for the good laugh), but I did fall asleep with the Pro Forma paper on my chest.

    PM to N2it *already* sent, actually last night. Please feel free to forward to my email anything you have, particularly the juicy negatives. cannga@pacbell.net

    BTW, your & Doug's posts on quality of Tubi did not fall on deaf ears. I am not that committed to AWE. Thanks again and cheers.

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Cann,

    You may want to speak to N2it on the Rennlist board. He had the AWE but switched to a Tubi. He might help you.


    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Quote:
    cannga said:
    Gregg, my friend, you must give more credit than this. Remember I am *almost* at your level of nuttiness, right? I mean, I didn't have the wheel next to my wife on our bed (LOL thanks for the good laugh), but I did fall asleep with the Pro Forma paper on my chest.

    PM to N2it *already* sent, actually last night. Please feel free to forward to my email anything you have, particularly the juicy negatives. cannga@pacbell.net

    BTW, your & Doug's posts on quality of Tubi did not fall on deaf ears. I am not that committed to AWE. Thanks again and cheers.

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Cann,

    You may want to speak to N2it on the Rennlist board. He had the AWE but switched to a Tubi. He might help you.





    LoL! That's great. I shoulda known. Let us know what he says.

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    I finally got a rolling audition of Cargraphic with AAHTT's modded and powerful Turbo. This was by far the best audition I've had so far, not only I rode in the car with Anthony (and miraculously live to tell about it), I also stood on the road while he buzzed by at speed.

    Side note: Anthony showed me the car at the Coffee and Cars thingy at Irvine http://www.carsandcoffee.info/main.html, where at the end I was able to hear about 80-100 cars as they left the show, the majority at full throttle (and I mean F-U-L-L!!). Never before have I heard so many different Ferrari's, Lambo's, muscle cars, and Porsche's back to back at full throttle. It was a great learning experience for me. An extremely fortuitous situation, coinciding as it was with my exhaust audition!

    Again at idle, I found the Cargraphic Loud not loud at all, inside or out. I think that it's the sound under load that Cargraphic refers to when they categorize their different exhausts.

    Ok, let me cut to the chase: The most spectacular sound of Cargraphic is when you are outside the car as a spectator. A beautiful, staccato machine-gun like crackling. Aggressive but not raspy. It was spine tingling to hear this car passing by as I stood road side.

    Inside the car, I was struck by how the car sounds different; much quieter. You don't quite hear the spectacular show, especially with windows up. I didn't have much time to analyze the sound at full scream as a *passenger*, holding on as it were to my dear life while Anthony went pedal to metal. Maybe Anthony/Jason/Alex could correct or add to my impression here.

    Inside the cabin at cruising, I would say perhaps that the AWE is louder than Cargraphic. Under load, I did not measure but Cargraphic *seems* louder. The AWE bubbles at a lower frequency, the Cargraphic roars, staccato like, more "aggressive" and equally beautiful.

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Final Update:

    I have now listened to so many muffler systems that I think I got exhaust sound coming out of my ears.

    Last Saturday I was in car heaven. At 6:30 in the morning was the Irvine Coffee and Car Meet. I met AAHTT (Anthony) and by sheer luck this time heard the Cargraphic Loud exhaust right next to another Turbo with the AWE exhaust. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the low frequency component of the Cargraphic, that provides the important sense of "heft," is almost the equal of the AWE. I do not know whether this is related to the fact that AAHTT's car is a tuned ECU monster with enlarged turbine, or that his exhaust system is older and not brand new like that of my first audition.

    In late morning, I (finally-hurray!) met forum friends Over The Hill (Larry) and Atomic at the Nethercutt Museum & Car Collection. Just like my audition of the Tubi with dkreidel (Dick), Larry was kind enough to let me drive his baby! (Isn't rennteam wonderful? Thanks again, Larry & Dick.) I was able to judge the Cargraphic Loud at normal cruising speed as well.

    What I like about the Cargraphic Loud is that it is civilized at cruising, with some low frequency component to the sound to provide the sense of power/muscle, and howls (high frequency) and crackles (machine gun like) at a moderately loud (4000 rpm) to very loud (8000 rpm or whatever Anthony was at) level. Anthony's Turbo with wide open throttle buzzing by me standing on the sidewalk remains a most memorable and spectacular experience. I can't get that machine gun staccato out of my mind!

    But perhaps even more important, I like the association with Porsche racing. The Cargraphic Exhaust is apparently made and developed by the same manufacturer who does the Cup exhaust systems of the 996/997, RS Tuning. The heat shield is a sign of a well designed system and that little detail is, perhaps unfairly, magnified in my consideration.
    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Number=287132

    Of all the exhaust systems I've heard, sonically I don't think there is one that I would consider "the best." Each has weak and strong points when it comes to loudness and character, at idle and wide open. (OTOH all are considerably better to me than the extremely wimpy sounding stock system.) For anyone considering I would most definitely recommend live auditions. It is a fun process and it's heart warming to finally run into people who are as nutty as you.
    When I started, the Cargraphic was last on my list. Today, I just called the US distributor for arrangement to have it installed in my car.

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Glad to be of help Can, you won't regret it

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    It's too bad you couldn't have heard the Europipe offering - the quality is outstanding, big 76mm plumbing, 100 cell sport cats (no CEL) and great sound. Here's a picture compared to the stock system.

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    how much is the europipe version and do we have any sound clips ?

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Quote:
    JakeGt2 said:
    how much is the europipe version and do we have any sound clips ?

    You can go to their website and hear some soundclips although I've never believed you should buy a system based on soundclips - better to try and hear in person. The last time I looked the price was 3,800 euros - it get's scary when you convert to $'s.

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    i have the CG loud like the one of AAHTT(Antony) from Genuary 2007,i make 11000kms with it and love it,the more i use it the more it sounds,is the way to go!

    also you can fit the twin CG tailpipes,and they fit perfect..instead of others that fit "bad" in the holes of the bumper


    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Jeff,

    That Europipe looks like a work of art! It appears *extremely* well constructed, has heat shield and even the balance pipe like stock. During my "web based" research I saw many many positive comments on the Europipe. Yes I would have loved to audition it.

    At the beginning of my search, sonic was the primary criteria, with my personal preference of some more low frequency component and loudness to the sound. Towards the end however, I developed a liking to the howl and crackle at wide open throttle. I also became concerned with possible power loss and because of this, the Cargraphic with its racing "pedigree," rightly or wrongly, became the front runner. I am hoping the engineers know what they are doing because they also design exhausts for some Porsche race cars.

    Do I think I made the right decision? Not 100% sure. I can't test all the systems out there and have limited trust in my Seat of Pants dyno. Could the Europipe be "better" than Cargraphic? Sure!

    Thanks for the picture and comment, and congrats on the nice exhaust! If you ever visit LA, my email is cannga@pacbell.net. The most helpful audition is one where you have 2 exhausts next to each other.

    Quote:
    jeffbco said:
    It's too bad you couldn't have heard the Europipe offering - the quality is outstanding, big 76mm plumbing, 100 cell sport cats (no CEL) and great sound. Here's a picture compared to the stock system.


    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Put it this way, if CG is good enough for RC on a 997 Turbo, then it's good enough for me

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Hello Jake,

    I agree with Jeff. I've listened to many clips of many cars; my opinion is >90% of the clips do not accurately reflect the sound of the exhaust, especially **in comparison** to another exhaust with respect to loudness and frequency. There are simply too many uncontrolled variables: the mic freq. response and how far it should be from the car, our extremely inaccurate computer speakers, etc.

    IMO, live audition is the way to go. Park your stock car next to the other car as comparison is the most helpful type of audition IMHO. I also made video recording but that's only because I am a little nutty.

    Quote:
    jeffbco said:
    Quote:
    JakeGt2 said:
    how much is the europipe version and do we have any sound clips ?

    You can go to their website and hear some soundclips although I've never believed you should buy a system based on soundclips - better to try and hear in person. The last time I looked the price was 3,800 euros - it get's scary when you convert to $'s.


    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Quote:
    cannga said:
    Jeff,

    That Europipe looks like a work of art! It appears *extremely* well constructed, has heat shield and even the balance pipe like stock. During my "web based" research I saw many many positive comments on the Europipe. Yes I would have loved to audition it.

    At the beginning of my search, sonic was the primary criteria, with my personal preference of some more low frequency component and loudness to the sound. Towards the end however, I developed a liking to the howl and crackle at wide open throttle. I also became concerned with possible power loss and because of this, the Cargraphic with its racing "pedigree," rightly or wrongly, became the front runner. I am hoping the engineers know what they are doing because they also design exhausts for some Porsche race cars.

    Do I think I made the right decision? Not 100% sure. I can't test all the systems out there and have limited trust in my Seat of Pants dyno. Could the Europipe be "better" than Cargraphic? Sure!

    Thanks for the picture and comment, and congrats on the nice exhaust! If you ever visit LA, my email is [Email]cannga@pacbell.net.[/Email] The most helpful audition is one where you have 2 exhausts next to each other.

    Quote:
    jeffbco said:
    It's too bad you couldn't have heard the Europipe offering - the quality is outstanding, big 76mm plumbing, 100 cell sport cats (no CEL) and great sound. Here's a picture compared to the stock system.



    I wasn't trying to sway you - you'll be more than happy with the CG decision. BTW, Chris Paul way ask for a recount after what he's been doing to the Spurs:)

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Darius,

    I know it's just a matter of personal preference, but the stock oval tip is getting on my nerves in a BIG way.

    I want something *round* and wish Porsche had givev me something *round*? The designer should be fired and replaced with someone Italian!

    I've looked at both Cargraphic round tip, and a US product called Fabspeed tip. The Fabspeed has a thicker and flared opening that is more industrial/"muscular" looking (to me). While the Cargraphic chrome finish is bright and "whitish," the Fabspeed's is more subdued/duller & yellowish, almost like polished aluminum instead of chrome. I think I am going to go with Fabspeed.

    Enclosed is a picture of Anthony's Fabspeed tip. You could see the somewhat unsightly solder line, but then, the Scuderia has that too, *INSIDE* the car! (Saw one at the Irvine Coffee and Cars Meet last Saturday.)

    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    i have the CG loud like the one of AAHTT(Antony) from Genuary 2007,i make 11000kms with it and love it,the more i use it the more it sounds,is the way to go!

    also you can fit the twin CG tailpipes,and they fit perfect..instead of others that fit "bad" in the holes of the bumper





    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Can,
    Will the CG exhaust accept the stock tail pipes? My exhaust will be installed next week. I'm really looking forward to it.

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Cannga

    i had some problems with round tips like the one in your pictures..mine where painted/coated in black..and sold by Evoms
    mines don't fit whell the hole in the bumper due to be not welded in the right position and start to "burn" the black part of the bumper near the tips..i take them down and send back in USA..
    evoms was very kindly to take them back

    i don't whant to make bad advertisement to the one you talk about,becouse maybe only mine where bad welded and maybe are not from Fabspeed (also if it looks the same),but with CG tips you have more ways to adjust them..they are fixed in a different way

    but choose the one that looks the best for you!now my CG tips are more gold that silver and i like them..but i still prefer the look of the black ones from evoms...
    if only they fit well like this..




    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    troppo bella Dario!

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Anthony,

    Was there any big problem with the Fabspeed tip on your Cargraphic? Did RSS have to bend anything to make it fit?

    Loran, AFAIK, stock tip fits. Ed's car has a stock tip and I don't recall that he had any problem.

    Darius,

    Thanks for the advice. Is this the one you are talking about? http://www.evoms.com/marketplace/ViewPro...B25F5D8D312E%7D
    If it is, I might have a problem as it looks exactly like the Fabspeed. (I wouldn't be surprised if Fabspeed is the source.)
    http://www.fabspeed.com/997TT.html

    BTW, here is a picture I took of your beautiful country.

    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    Cannga

    i had some problems with round tips like the one in your pictures..mine where painted/coated in black..and sold by Evoms
    mines don't fit whell the hole in the bumper due to be not welded in the right position and start to "burn" the black part of the bumper near the tips..i take them down and send back in USA..
    evoms was very kindly to take them back

    i don't whant to make bad advertisement to the one you talk about,becouse maybe only mine where bad welded and maybe are not from Fabspeed (also if it looks the same),but with CG tips you have more ways to adjust them..they are fixed in a different way

    but choose the one that looks the best for you!now my CG tips are more gold that silver and i like them..but i still prefer the look of the black ones from evoms...
    if only they fit well like this..




    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    This thread really needs sound files or links to sound files IMHO

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Hello Easy,

    There are sound clips on youtube that I have deliberately not included. They are extremely deceptive and the only way to judge an exhaust system IMHO is to listen live.

    The one critical parameter of any exhaust system, loudness, cannot be judged with sound clip as there is no set standard as far as the mic's type, sensitivity and position, and the volume of your computer speaker, etc., etc. I've had sound clips sent to me that sound nothing like the subsequent auditions.

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    This thread really needs sound files or links to sound files IMHO


    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Quote:
    cannga said:
    Anthony,

    Was there any big problem with the Fabspeed tip on your Cargraphic? Did RSS have to bend anything to make it fit?

    Loran, AFAIK, stock tip fits. Ed's car has a stock tip and I don't recall that he had any problem.

    Darius,

    Thanks for the advice. Is this the one you are talking about? http://www.evoms.com/marketplace/ViewPro...B25F5D8D312E%7D
    If it is, I might have a problem as it looks exactly like the Fabspeed. (I wouldn't be surprised if Fabspeed is the source.)
    http://www.fabspeed.com/997TT.html

    BTW, here is a picture I took of your beautiful country.

    Quote:
    Super Darius said:
    Cannga

    i had some problems with round tips like the one in your pictures..mine where painted/coated in black..and sold by Evoms
    mines don't fit whell the hole in the bumper due to be not welded in the right position and start to "burn" the black part of the bumper near the tips..i take them down and send back in USA..
    evoms was very kindly to take them back

    i don't whant to make bad advertisement to the one you talk about,becouse maybe only mine where bad welded and maybe are not from Fabspeed (also if it looks the same),but with CG tips you have more ways to adjust them..they are fixed in a different way

    but choose the one that looks the best for you!now my CG tips are more gold that silver and i like them..but i still prefer the look of the black ones from evoms...
    if only they fit well like this..






    Can, I had the stock tips on my cargraphic for a while without a problem and then I got the fabspeeds that I installed myself in like 15 minutes. There was no problem either although you have to move them around several times before tightening to get a good symmetry.
    I think Dario's tips were a lemon

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    hahahah


    yes cannga,the tips are the ones of your link..
    and i'm near to be sure that they are from Fabspeed..but i'm talking of more than an year ago..
    maybe they are the first tips made,and maybe a little lemon too
    Sure they are bad welded becouse the left was different from the right in fact one touch more the bumper,and one was near to fit good..

    if i remeber well i can't sleep only two night for that "problem" before to decide to take them down.. so was not a really big problem,you can try

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Darius/Anthony,

    Thanks again for your input. I ordered the Fabspeed tip. If it turns out to be a lemon I'll add some sugar and water. I now realize what finish it is: simply stainless steel, the material it's made of. I prefer this to chrome.

    Only thing to do now is dropping the car off to the installer. My dear wife has not been very enthusiastic in rearranging her schedule to help me with this. She probably is having a difficult time grasping the concept of changing a perfectly functional muffler with another muffler, that muffles less. I think the subtle elegance of this act escapes her.

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Quote:
    cannga said:
    She probably is having a difficult time grasping the concept of changing a perfectly functional muffler with another muffler, that muffles less. I think the subtle elegance of this act escapes her.



    HAHHAHAHAH

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Some ad material.

    Re: My Audition of Cargraphic Exhaust

    Off Topic

    Darius, does this look familiar? Took this shot during trip w/ my family in 2005.

     
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