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    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    Patriek said:
    Quote:
    CarreraGtRacer said:
    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    Quote:
    CarreraGtRacer said:
    Give me the Carrera GT over any Ferrari



    Good, and I'll take the superior Enzo. :-)

    So superior that Ferrari won't let it run the Nuburgring







    That's probably how the Enzo would perform anyway which could be why they won't let it on the track?

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    BluCamSS said:
    Quote:
    Zürich said:
    Quote:
    Patriek said:




    Yes that's what most Enzos are doing in their garages



    While CGT's depreciate faster then a Ford Taurus.



    And if depreciation doesn't matter and you intend to keep all your cars..then...the point would be...

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    That's probably how the Enzo would perform anyway which could be why they won't let it on the track?




    They build something superior for it, ever heard of the FXX

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    Patriek said:
    That's probably how the Enzo would perform anyway which could be why they won't let it on the track?




    They build something superior for it, ever heard of the FXX



    I hope it does better than their current F1 Car

    But you can't deny that it's butt ugly...

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    Zürich said:
    I hope it does better than their current F1 Car




    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    Quote:
    Stradle suggested buying a TT cab and driving it for a couple of years while waiting for the 430 Spider or coupe. The only problem with that strategy is the financial beating you will take in holding the TT cab for those years. The depreciation will be epic on the car.



    if you buy a 430 spider at the going rate of 340k+(which is what you must pay to get one) what do you think it will be worth in a few years ?



    The depreciation on the 430 Ferrari will be minimal. More importantly, once you have established the relationship with the Ferrari dealer, your future Ferrari's will be at MSRP with little waiting and profitable resale. Additionally, you will be now be in the enviable going forward position of driving a new Ferrari at little or no cost.

    BTW I am not advocating buying a 430 Spider at its top premium. That is something you must decide based on your needs and financial situation. There are other alternatives which can be discussd and negotiated with your local Ferrari dealer.

    When I sold my 996 Cab, I took a $40,000 loss. With my Cayenne, I will experience a similar loss. I am determined never to put myself in that position again.



    You BOUGHT your Cayenne?? I figured the only reason you're hanging onto a vehicle that you despise and that continues to suffer "epic" depreciation is because you leased it and had to honor the contract. Why not sell it now? If it is leased, why would you take a bath since you could just let the dealer take it?

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    thanks again Amir ... so if you pay 100K+ over sticker for a 430 spider you are close to CGT with low miles ... hmmmm when you look at it like that the choice does seem clear . Now for a nice road trip the CGT has no trunk space with the top off so I guess you need to fed ex the bags to your destination .



    Same "fed ex thing" with the wonderful 430 Spider. There is trunk space, but the car is only allowed to carry 121 KG. So you and your lightweight wife/girl-friend and maybe a tooth-brush

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    someone who bought a 360 spider a few years ago and had to pay over sticker now what can they sell it for with say 30 or 40 thousand miles ? Will they not loose about a 100k compared to only loosing 40K on the 996TT .



    I doubt there is a 360 Spider out there with 30K miles on it let alone 40K.

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    So, if you want to sell your Ferrari with almost no depreciation, you have to keep it in your garage and only look at it What a car choice
    And who is this guy, that will pay MSRP for a 360, when there is the new 430 out there

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Nicks opinion will always be Pro Ferrari and Con Porsche.

    On the other hand I'm very neutral when it comes to Porsche vs. Ferrari because I love them both. If you want impartial advice you know where to ask.

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    blueflame said:
    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    thanks again Amir ... so if you pay 100K+ over sticker for a 430 spider you are close to CGT with low miles ... hmmmm when you look at it like that the choice does seem clear . Now for a nice road trip the CGT has no trunk space with the top off so I guess you need to fed ex the bags to your destination .



    Same "fed ex thing" with the wonderful 430 Spider. There is trunk space, but the car is only allowed to carry 121 KG. So you and your lightweight wife/girl-friend and maybe a tooth-brush



    This can't be true can it, it should excude driver and co-driver?

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    Boyko23 said:
    So, if you want to sell your Ferrari with almost no depreciation, you have to keep it in your garage and only look at it What a car choice
    And who is this guy, that will pay MSRP for a 360, when there is the new 430 out there



    Who is the guy that will pay msrp for a 360 ?

    Ask tdf360. He just sold his 6800 mile 360 on ebay for msrp.
    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...e=0&fpart=1

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Nicks opinion will always be Pro Ferrari and Con Porsche.

    On the other hand I'm very neutral when it comes to Porsche vs. Ferrari because I love them both. If you want impartial advice you know where to ask.



    Agreed. But this time I think he's got a point. Putting day to day practicality aside (tough for many of us ), and factoring in depreciation, Porsche TT ownership costs are higher than on a comparable Ferrari.

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    Porsche TT ownership costs are higher than on a comparable Ferrari.



    And that's just fine with me.

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Nicks opinion will always be Pro Ferrari and Con Porsche.

    On the other hand I'm very neutral when it comes to Porsche vs. Ferrari because I love them both. If you want impartial advice you know where to ask.



    Agreed. But this time I think he's got a point. Putting day to day practicality aside (tough for many of us ), and factoring in depreciation, Porsche TT ownership costs are higher than on a comparable Ferrari.



    Not under these circumstances, with these models. I've been through these exercises so many times.

    Buy a 430 Spider now compared to buying a 997 TT Cab new and then driving them for 2 or 3 years the Spider will cost you more. Especially if you're going to drive the car for 8-12k miles a year A 430 with regular milaege depreciates like any other car. Add the fact that you would have to pay $50,000 plus over msrp and it's no contest. For the F430 Spider you'll lose the $50,000 over that you paid plus an additional $50,000 for a car with 20,000 miles. You're out $100,000 easy. A 997 TT cab with 20,000 miles you would probably lose 40% to half the cars value. About $60 - $75,000.

    And that's IF you could get a Spider for $50,000 over. It's probably more.

    Additionally that's not even taking in account the tax difference which OCEAN would lose living in CA. Buying a $250,000 430 Spider vs a $150,000 997 Turbo cab it would cost an additional $9000 just in taxes.

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    someone who bought a 360 spider a few years ago and had to pay over sticker now what can they sell it for with say 30 or 40 thousand miles ? Will they not loose about a 100k compared to only loosing 40K on the 996TT .



    I doubt there is a 360 Spider out there with 30K miles on it let alone 40K.



    A 2yo 360 Spider w/70K mis was sold on ebay last yr....an LA commuter car w/apparently robust reliability. Recall a big F-owner in UT putting 10-20K+ mis on his Enzo w/o issues...he even lent car to one of US car rags a couple yrs ago when Enzo was new....

    Agree that most new Fs are garage queens...btwn guys who can barely afford them and need to calc deprec implics of each mile driven...and guys who have 3-4 toys that are refreshed every 6-12 mos, 3-4 houses, 3-4 rugrats and who do their long trips via NetJets-equivalents......it's perhaps only 5% of new Fs that end up w/more than 7K miles from first owner before trade-in....given the pipeline of 430 Coupe, Spider, CS and 600, all released in perhaps a 18 mo time frame, it's no surprise that serial F buyers have little time to rack up miles before moving onto next F.....

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    btw: I was being aggressive with the Porsche costs because the 997 TT Cab will probably cost more like $140k not $150k and you would probably not lose more than 35%. The loss is probably closer to $50,000. VS the 430 Spider's $100,000. It would be very different if you got your Spider at msrp (by waiting like I suggested to OCEAN) and you used the car for weekends putting on a few thousand miles a year. A 2 year old Spider bought new at msrp with 6000 miles you could probably get $20,000-$30k over. Minus the tax you paid and you would be ahead of the game by $10-$20k.

    Ferrari's with 20,000 miles do not sell above or at msrp. You'll lose money like every other car.

    That's why you should get one of each.

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Nicks opinion will always be Pro Ferrari and Con Porsche.

    On the other hand I'm very neutral when it comes to Porsche vs. Ferrari because I love them both. If you want impartial advice you know where to ask.



    Agreed. But this time I think he's got a point. Putting day to day practicality aside (tough for many of us ), and factoring in depreciation, Porsche TT ownership costs are higher than on a comparable Ferrari.



    Not under these circumstances, with these models. I've been through these exercises so many times.

    Buy a 430 Spider now compared to buying a 997 TT Cab new and then driving them for 2 or 3 years the Spider will cost you more. Especially if you're going to drive the car for 8-12k miles a year A 430 with regular milaege depreciates like any other car. Add the fact that you would have to pay $50,000 plus over msrp and it's no contest. For the F430 Spider you'll lose the $50,000 over that you paid plus an additional $50,000 for a car with 20,000 miles. You're out $100,000 easy. A 997 TT cab with 20,000 miles you would probably lose 40% to half the cars value. About $60 - $75,000.

    And that's IF you could get a Spider for $50,000 over. It's probably more.

    Additionally that's not even taking in account the tax difference which OCEAN would lose living in CA. Buying a $250,000 430 Spider vs a $150,000 997 Turbo cab it would cost an additional $9000 just in taxes.



    Stradale, need to consider differential lease costs and sales tx implics of each car, esp in CA. Also, most guys w/F need/want to have SL55/996TTS as well as part of their commuter fleet, given the poss "issues" F-commuting poses w/many investors/customers/employees/colleagues even in tech and finance businesses in SF/LA.....i.e., most "working class" dudes in tech and finance can get away w/just driving a 996TTS (it's low-profile enough in SF/LA), but can't do the same w/430....sometimes showing up to the wrong meeting in a new F can make negotiating any financial issue a lot trickier than showing up in a perfunctory 996TTS/SL55, esp in the suburban office bldg context where people see the car....

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Hip hip hooray for the finance businesses!

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    ajcastaneda said:
    Hip hip hooray for the finance businesses!



    Gotta admire the rare hard-core traders/M&A bankers who would actually commute into Manhattan from Westchester/Greenwich via F ......who says F's can't take punishing crater-filled, traffic-jammed roads?....

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Just drive 15-20 Mph over the craters and you'll be somewhat okay

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    1) Post this in the Porsche forum, too, if you haven't already. Not very hard to guess what F-owners in an F forum will suggest.

    2) Ferraris hold their price better than Porshes, if you dont 'drive them more than a little, and sell them off after a short ownership.
    If a sunday trip and a trackday now and them is all you need from this car - I'd pick the F430 in a heartbeat.

    3) Porsches can be used as everyday cars - that's not really the same case with an F.
    If you need a useful and practical "everyday" car, the Porsche is the right pick.

    4) They both handle like a dream - up to YOUR own taste which is better for you.

    5) Reliability: Both have high quality. Porsche has a far better history of building high-milage, drive-them-till-you-drop, reliable cars than Ferrari.
    You dont find many Ferraris that have survived 100.000 km
    The F430 just might do that - but think about the depreciation. Hard to sell a hi-milage F with all those garage queen F's out there.

    6) The 430 is rarer and looks more exotic than a 997TT (IMO).
    A matter of taste - yes, but I believe there is more passion and excitement about the Ferrari brand than the P brand.
    In the real world this may be perceived very differently.

    You have indeed a luxury problem here
    I wish you the best of luck poicking hte right car for you.

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:

    Ask tdf360. He just sold his 6800 mile 360 on ebay for msrp.
    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...e=0&fpart=1



    Just to clarify, I was running an eBay ad, but the car sold from my FerrariChat ad. And I did get $2500 over original invoice.

    Gary

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Nicks opinion will always be Pro Ferrari and Con Porsche.

    On the other hand I'm very neutral when it comes to Porsche vs. Ferrari because I love them both. If you want impartial advice you know where to ask.



    Agreed. But this time I think he's got a point. Putting day to day practicality aside (tough for many of us ), and factoring in depreciation, Porsche TT ownership costs are higher than on a comparable Ferrari.



    Not under these circumstances, with these models. I've been through these exercises so many times.

    Buy a 430 Spider now compared to buying a 997 TT Cab new and then driving them for 2 or 3 years the Spider will cost you more. Especially if you're going to drive the car for 8-12k miles a year A 430 with regular milaege depreciates like any other car. Add the fact that you would have to pay $50,000 plus over msrp and it's no contest. For the F430 Spider you'll lose the $50,000 over that you paid plus an additional $50,000 for a car with 20,000 miles. You're out $100,000 easy. A 997 TT cab with 20,000 miles you would probably lose 40% to half the cars value. About $60 - $75,000.

    And that's IF you could get a Spider for $50,000 over. It's probably more.

    Additionally that's not even taking in account the tax difference which OCEAN would lose living in CA. Buying a $250,000 430 Spider vs a $150,000 997 Turbo cab it would cost an additional $9000 just in taxes.



    Stradale, need to consider differential lease costs and sales tx implics of each car, esp in CA. Also, most guys w/F need/want to have SL55/996TTS as well as part of their commuter fleet, given the poss "issues" F-commuting poses w/many investors/customers/employees/colleagues even in tech and finance businesses in SF/LA.....i.e., most "working class" dudes in tech and finance can get away w/just driving a 996TTS (it's low-profile enough in SF/LA), but can't do the same w/430....sometimes showing up to the wrong meeting in a new F can make negotiating any financial issue a lot trickier than showing up in a perfunctory 996TTS/SL55, esp in the suburban office bldg context where people see the car....



    Yup. That's why I used the loss of $9000 for the 430 for CA. In NY you can trade the car in and not pay tax on the value.

    Agreed - I drove my 996 Turbo to work everyday and I now drive my 997 S cab to work everyday and will drive my 997 Turbo cab to work every day when I get it. On the other hand I don't drive my Ferrari to work because of the issues that will surely arise with the people who work for me, customers, etc. There's a few close friends at the office that know I have the car and I have taken for rides etc. but that's it.

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    tdf360 said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:

    Ask tdf360. He just sold his 6800 mile 360 on ebay for msrp.
    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...e=0&fpart=1



    Just to clarify, I was running an eBay ad, but the car sold from my FerrariChat ad. And I did get $2500 over original invoice.

    Gary




    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Buy real estate (as in more than 100 percent ROI in 2 years), not cars for an investment. Cars are for fun, not sitting around the garage like fine china.
    /uploads/131920-moneysw.gif

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Nicks opinion will always be Pro Ferrari and Con Porsche.

    On the other hand I'm very neutral when it comes to Porsche vs. Ferrari because I love them both. If you want impartial advice you know where to ask.



    Agreed. But this time I think he's got a point. Putting day to day practicality aside (tough for many of us ), and factoring in depreciation, Porsche TT ownership costs are higher than on a comparable Ferrari.



    Not under these circumstances, with these models. I've been through these exercises so many times.

    Buy a 430 Spider now compared to buying a 997 TT Cab new and then driving them for 2 or 3 years the Spider will cost you more. Especially if you're going to drive the car for 8-12k miles a year A 430 with regular milaege depreciates like any other car. Add the fact that you would have to pay $50,000 plus over msrp and it's no contest. For the F430 Spider you'll lose the $50,000 over that you paid plus an additional $50,000 for a car with 20,000 miles. You're out $100,000 easy. A 997 TT cab with 20,000 miles you would probably lose 40% to half the cars value. About $60 - $75,000.

    And that's IF you could get a Spider for $50,000 over. It's probably more.

    Additionally that's not even taking in account the tax difference which OCEAN would lose living in CA. Buying a $250,000 430 Spider vs a $150,000 997 Turbo cab it would cost an additional $9000 just in taxes.



    Stradale, need to consider differential lease costs and sales tx implics of each car, esp in CA. Also, most guys w/F need/want to have SL55/996TTS as well as part of their commuter fleet, given the poss "issues" F-commuting poses w/many investors/customers/employees/colleagues even in tech and finance businesses in SF/LA.....i.e., most "working class" dudes in tech and finance can get away w/just driving a 996TTS (it's low-profile enough in SF/LA), but can't do the same w/430....sometimes showing up to the wrong meeting in a new F can make negotiating any financial issue a lot trickier than showing up in a perfunctory 996TTS/SL55, esp in the suburban office bldg context where people see the car....



    Yup. That's why I used the loss of $9000 for the 430 for CA. In NY you can trade the car in and not pay tax on the value.

    Agreed - I drove my 996 Turbo to work everyday and I now drive my 997 S cab to work everyday and will drive my 997 Turbo cab to work every day when I get it. On the other hand I don't drive my Ferrari to work because of the issues that will surely arise with the people who work for me, customers, etc. There's a few close friends at the office that know I have the car and I have taken for rides etc. but that's it.



    Stradale, we're on the same page ....but what I was really getting at is, if I were really counting pennies, I would never buy any car (why tie up a dime of capital in a depreciating asset?)....I lease w/$0 dwn and trade-in in typ 6-12 mos.....(I realize NY state has screwed-up car leasing)...I would compare any 2 cars on a comparable basis....lease vs lease, each driven 10-15K mis/yr....my sense is F is more expensive off-the-bat b/c 99% of 430 buyers also need a 996TTS/SL55ish commuter car for most days, whereas the converse isn't true....and my sense is F resale value ain't as great as often purported and is lumpy, based on numerous variables incl: Coupe vs Spider vs CS; bespoke color/stitching schemes (I hate off-the-rack red/tan and silver/blk); high relative mileage; low resale value (but high-optical impact) options like CCM/carbon fiber around engine bay/sport seats, etc; time of yr of trade-in; trade-in on E Coast vs W Coast, etc etc.....end of day, it goes back to the ole refrain: "if you have to ask,....."

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    Zürich said:
    Quote:
    blueflame said:
    Quote:
    OCEAN said:
    thanks again Amir ... so if you pay 100K+ over sticker for a 430 spider you are close to CGT with low miles ... hmmmm when you look at it like that the choice does seem clear . Now for a nice road trip the CGT has no trunk space with the top off so I guess you need to fed ex the bags to your destination .



    Same "fed ex thing" with the wonderful 430 Spider. There is trunk space, but the car is only allowed to carry 121 KG. So you and your lightweight wife/girl-friend and maybe a tooth-brush



    This can't be true can it, it should excude driver and co-driver?



    "Auto-Motor-Sport from 3.8.2005" Empty weight:1599 KG Max weight 1720 KG

    Blueflame

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    blueflame said:
    "Auto-Motor-Sport from 3.8.2005" Empty weight:1599 KG Max weight 1720 KG

    Blueflame


    Yeah, I was really shocked when I read that weight figures.
    Even more as Ferrari claims the Spider to be as heavy as the Berlinetta.

    At least the Berlinetta seem to fulfil the official weight figures with close to 1500 kg (around 1480 kg if I remember correctly).

    Re: Poesche Vs Ferrari .............

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    crayphile said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Nicks opinion will always be Pro Ferrari and Con Porsche.

    On the other hand I'm very neutral when it comes to Porsche vs. Ferrari because I love them both. If you want impartial advice you know where to ask.



    Agreed. But this time I think he's got a point. Putting day to day practicality aside (tough for many of us ), and factoring in depreciation, Porsche TT ownership costs are higher than on a comparable Ferrari.



    Not under these circumstances, with these models. I've been through these exercises so many times.

    Buy a 430 Spider now compared to buying a 997 TT Cab new and then driving them for 2 or 3 years the Spider will cost you more. Especially if you're going to drive the car for 8-12k miles a year A 430 with regular milaege depreciates like any other car. Add the fact that you would have to pay $50,000 plus over msrp and it's no contest. For the F430 Spider you'll lose the $50,000 over that you paid plus an additional $50,000 for a car with 20,000 miles. You're out $100,000 easy. A 997 TT cab with 20,000 miles you would probably lose 40% to half the cars value. About $60 - $75,000.

    And that's IF you could get a Spider for $50,000 over. It's probably more.

    Additionally that's not even taking in account the tax difference which OCEAN would lose living in CA. Buying a $250,000 430 Spider vs a $150,000 997 Turbo cab it would cost an additional $9000 just in taxes.



    Stradale, need to consider differential lease costs and sales tx implics of each car, esp in CA. Also, most guys w/F need/want to have SL55/996TTS as well as part of their commuter fleet, given the poss "issues" F-commuting poses w/many investors/customers/employees/colleagues even in tech and finance businesses in SF/LA.....i.e., most "working class" dudes in tech and finance can get away w/just driving a 996TTS (it's low-profile enough in SF/LA), but can't do the same w/430....sometimes showing up to the wrong meeting in a new F can make negotiating any financial issue a lot trickier than showing up in a perfunctory 996TTS/SL55, esp in the suburban office bldg context where people see the car....



    Yup. That's why I used the loss of $9000 for the 430 for CA. In NY you can trade the car in and not pay tax on the value.

    Agreed - I drove my 996 Turbo to work everyday and I now drive my 997 S cab to work everyday and will drive my 997 Turbo cab to work every day when I get it. On the other hand I don't drive my Ferrari to work because of the issues that will surely arise with the people who work for me, customers, etc. There's a few close friends at the office that know I have the car and I have taken for rides etc. but that's it.



    Stradale, we're on the same page ....but what I was really getting at is, if I were really counting pennies, I would never buy any car (why tie up a dime of capital in a depreciating asset?)....I lease w/$0 dwn and trade-in in typ 6-12 mos.....(I realize NY state has screwed-up car leasing)...I would compare any 2 cars on a comparable basis....lease vs lease, each driven 10-15K mis/yr....my sense is F is more expensive off-the-bat b/c 99% of 430 buyers also need a 996TTS/SL55ish commuter car for most days, whereas the converse isn't true....and my sense is F resale value ain't as great as often purported and is lumpy, based on numerous variables incl: Coupe vs Spider vs CS; bespoke color/stitching schemes (I hate off-the-rack red/tan and silver/blk); high relative mileage; low resale value (but high-optical impact) options like CCM/carbon fiber around engine bay/sport seats, etc; time of yr of trade-in; trade-in on E Coast vs W Coast, etc etc.....end of day, it goes back to the ole refrain: "if you have to ask,....."



    I COMPLETELY AGREE. With a depreciating asset like a car you should keep the cash and let the money make you money somewhere else. Matter of fact a couple of months ago I was trying to explain to another poster that it would be better to keep the cash and finance instead of buying a car out-right, explained that I was an ex-stockbroker and my returns are higher in the markets then what I would pay in interest for a car loan. But I don't agree that it costs less to lease then to finance a 430 Spider. Or a 430. It is different for different states etc. so the best and only way to do the analogy is to get the numbers on both and sit down and make the comparison. For the last few cars I've bought leasing was not a good option. And with a Ferrari 430/spider financing is the only way I would go because of the long-term. It's very difficult thing to explain in posts vs. in person but I'll try. I was explaining the Spider vs. Turbo analogy in finance terms because it's a straight up comparison if you were to purchase both cars. For leasing there are more factors (residuals etc) that go into it. But even that aside while I agree in some cases it is better to lease (depreciating asset) with a 430/ Spider it makes more sense to buy. It's why I bought my Stradale instead of leasing. When (and if) I trade it in for a 430 I'll save $17,500 in taxes alone because I won't have to pay tax on the value of the car with a straight finance. (In NY) With a lease you have to pay tax all over again. And with each new car you're paying tax again. (I understand it's less because you're only paying for the term and in some states you can't take advantage of the tax savings) In the last 3 years alone I've saved $33,500 in taxes. Even if you forget the taxes you have to do a sit down comparison of the lease vs finance numbers to see if it makes any sense. In many cases you will spend more money on a 1 year lease then if you purchased the car outright and traded it back and paid off the note. Even with a Porsche it can make more sense to finance then lease. I just got a lease number from a friend at a Porsche dealer for a $100,000 997 S Cab. For my 997 S cab for a 1 year lease it would cost $3100 a month plus tax. So after 1 year I paid $37,200. In one year with my finance with payments at $1919 I will pay $23,028. (I didn't have to pay tax because I traded in my 996 Turbo off finance) That means I have to get $77,000 for my car when I trade it in next year to settle the note. More like $80k (for the interest) Plus when I trade the 997 S cab in for a 997 Turbo cab I'll save the tax on the $80,000, approx $7000. So after 1 year it would cost me approx. $18,000 more for a lease. ($11k difference plus $7k tax) Even if I was only to get $70k for the car and had to come up with $10k out of my pocket to settle the note it would still cost me $8,000 less to finance. And that's with a depreciating car like the Porsche. If you were buying a brand new 996 Turbo S now and intended to only hold it a year the situation would be very diiferent and the risk of depreciation might be too much of a gamble to finance. For a Ferrari there's no question which way I'd go.

    Your comment here:
    "I would never buy any car (why tie up a dime of capital in a depreciating asset?)?)....I lease w/$0 dwn and trade-in in typ 6-12 mos"

    Why do you have to tie up any money on a finance ? You don't. You don't have to put anything up-front. And with a 6-12 month lease you are paying more per month then a 60 month finance. A lot more. Why pay so much more when you can drive the car each month for less ? And get most of that money back with some cars (Especially a 430 Spider). I will probably buy a 430 and after that, the 430 Challenge Stradale. With a finance the money that I'm paying each month towards the 430 mostly comes back to me when I sell the car. And with each car instead of shelling out the same high montly lease payments again for a new lease with a finance your payments for each new car get less and less.

    Put it this way - If I only get msrp for my Stradale I've paid a certain amount of the loan off. Maybe 30%. I buy a 430 (save $17,500 in taxes) and my loan payments are now less then my Stradale payments (30% less) . I hold the 430 for a year or 2 and pay off the same floating note by another 30%. Trade in the 430 (say for msrp, save another $17,500 in taxes) and buy a 430CS. At this time I only have 40% of the original loan amount to pay. My payments are less then half what they were on the Stradale and the 430 CS is a brand new car. (of course the 430 CS might be more $ but you get the idea). So if it was 60 months between the time I bought the Stradale to the time I bought the 430 CS my loan would be paid off and I have a brand new car at the end with zero payments remaining. With a lease your money is gone. Instead of paying someone to basically rent you a car with the finance you see a lot of that money back. Agreed, if it was a Porsche depreciation plays a major role. Then it really all depends on how long you want to own the car, which model, how many miles, etc. Leasing is often a good short term solution but with an F-car if all the stars align properly you can be driving a brand new Ferrari in 5 years with nothing owed.

    One question I have - When you sign for a 1 year lease what happens if the next car you're getting doesn't come when you want it ? Can you shorten the lease if it comes early or lenghthen the lease if it is late ? It's very easy with a finance because you can get out at any time you want.

    Man, that was a long arse post.

     
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