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    Multiple punctures: new tyres for my car

    What a cr*ppy day Smiley I went to my car this morning to go grocery shopping. The right rear tyre on my car was totally flat. The last time I drove the car was last Sunday so I thought that I must have picked up a nail or screw then Smiley And then the tyre deflated fully afterwards during the weekdays Smiley

    Anyway, Porsche Assistance arranged for a RAC mechanic to come over. After an hour's wait, the RAC man came, plugged the puncture temporarily, pumped up the tyre and accompanied me to a garage where we thought the puncture could be repaired since the screw had been in the middle of the tyre tread.

    Sadly, there was a second nail in the edge of the tyre. Upon closer inspection, there were also 5 slow punctures SmileySmiley

    Just couldn't believe how this happened SmileySmiley The other 3 tyres are all normal.

    Since the punctured tyre certainly couldn't be repaired, I had to change it plus I had to replace the other tyre on the same rear axle. I decided to replace the front tyres too. The garage offered a great deal. But I hadn't been expecting to have to shell out so much money on tyres Smiley

    Anyway, I decided to get these tyres:

    Michelin Pilot Sport PS2

    Front: 235/35 ZR 19 N2 (Porsche spec) 87Y
    Rear: 295/30 ZR 19 N2 (Porsche spec) 100Y XL

    My car has the N1 spec tyres at present but I understand that N2 spec tyres recently became available.

    I ended up spending hours waiting while the garage phoned around trying to locate stock of the required tyres.

    They tried really hard - but the tyres won't be available till Tuesday at the earliest. It's hard to get stock delivered on a weekend. (They had 3 tyres delivered - some N1 tyres and a non Porsche N-spec tyre within 2 hours but they just couldn't get any N2s). Smiley

    So they pumped up the tyre, I drove home slowly and they gave me an air compressor in case to help me return for getting the tyres fitted.

    Reached home 4 hours later, hot, sweaty (since it was 32C here) & thoroughly p*ssed off that the problem still wasn't resolved.

    I am really angry that PAG doesn't provide a space-saver spare wheel for situations like this.

    I knew I would have to change the tyres later this year before my MOT in November but it's a pity I had to change them now. However, maybe it's a blessing in disguise. I have a Nordschleife trip planned for the weekend of 7-8 August 2010 so this is a sensible precaution - my tyres were already very worn Smiley

    The especially sad aspect was that I was supposed to meet Aviator and his wife today for afternoon tea at Sketch. They are in London visiting from Athens. Sadly, I had to cancel. If you are reading this Aviator, once again, my deepest apologies for having to cancel.

    http://www.sketch.uk.com/

    --

    RT Moderator
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

    Rennteam signature photo 2.jpg


    Re: Multiple punctures

    wow, really sorry to hear that Easy

    In retrospect, any idea how that could of happened? thats a lot of punctures in one tire


    --


    Re: Multiple punctures

    Crazy coincidence, or partially so anyway!

    My rear nearside tyre has had a very slow puncture for a few weeks (losing about 4psi per week)...so last Wednesday I had it checked by my local tyre dealership.

    He found a sizeable screw was causing the leak and considered it too damaged to repair.  He's a friend and no way would he give me any BS - so I ordered two new Michelin PS2's 295/30 ZR 19 N1 (Porsche spec) 100Y XL (Extra Load)...I didn't try N2's because my front tyres are fine and I didn't want to mix them.

    They arrived on Thursday and I had them fitted yesterday at a cost of £705 including VAT.  My OPC had quoted considerably higher. 

    Nevertheless it constituted the most expensive screw I've ever experienced!!   

    BTW - there is an air compressor unit included in the tool kit located in the 'drop down' compartment of the front boot.

    Easy - by way of comparison could you tell us what you paid for your new tyres?

     

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Multiple punctures

    Sorry to hear that guys ! These thing are always a pain in the as..  Just bad luck, but I'll be interested to know if Easy did find out where it came from. Someone droped a box of nails on the side of the pavement ?

    And as to compare tyre prices, I had to change my rear Michelins two month ago.

    I got  PS2 295/30 ZR 19  N2

    My local tyre man could not get any PS2 as they where out of stock so I had to get them at my local OPC.

    I paid, with installation : £ 945 

    If I could have it from the tyre man, I would of probably saved about   £ 160


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Multiple punctures

    Very expensive

    Here €650 all inclusive which in comparison is like a gift if you consider the higher freight costs!


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Multiple punctures

    reginos:

    Very expensive

    Here €650 all inclusive which in comparison is like a gift if you consider the higher freight costs!


    We should buy our tyres in Greece and have them shipped. It would still be a bargain.

    Once my tyre man could not get my Pirelli Sottozero for my car. He finally found some in Italy , had them shipped and I paid nearly 1/2 the price they where here Smiley


    --

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Multiple punctures

    Gnil:
    reginos:

    Very expensive

    Here €650 all inclusive which in comparison is like a gift if you consider the higher freight costs!


    We should buy our tyres in Greece and have them shipped. It would still be a bargain.

    Once my tyre man could not get my Pirelli Sottozero for my car. He finally found some in Italy , had them shipped and I paid nearly 1/2 the price they where here Smiley

    Actually, Cyprus. We just speak Greek!


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Multiple punctures

    Yeah, that's really expensive

    I will be paying around GBP 1100 for all four tyres, valves, installation, wheel balancing and VAT. I know the guys who run this particular local garage so they gave me a 32% discount.

    John H: just fyi, the N1 spec Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tyres have now been discontinued for the front axle. The N2 spec is now the only front tyre available from the Michelin factory. (There may still be old stock of the N1 spec tyre still available here and there).

    I still don't know how this happened. I can only assume that some builders dropped some nails/screws. There is plenty of property development once again taking place in East London.

    One other tip: you can get a 15% discount from Kwik Fit if you change 2 tyres at the same time and a 25% discount if you change all 4 tyres. The only downside is that this offer only applies to one brand at a time i.e. for a month they will offer this on Pirelli, then next month on Michelin and so on ... but at least this is a nationwide offer which you can take advantage of in the NW of England.

    BTW I'm surprised at the OPC quotations. My OPC quoted me GBP 1150 some months back. But they only have N1 spec tyres at the moment AFAIK.

    --

    RT Moderator
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

    Rennteam signature photo 2.jpg


    Re: Multiple punctures

    Easy - the way I drive I'll need new rears again by the time my fronts need replacing....so will don all N2's when it happens....if I've still got this car..

    What's the difference with N2's?  Is there a different tread pattern?  Do they perform better?

     


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: Multiple punctures

    AFAIK, the PS2 N1s have been around for a long time - maybe about 5 years or so. Apparently, tyre manufacturers have to update tyres after a certain time period so it could be that the N2 has little or no substantive improvement but that the update was issued by Michelin just because of that time period elapsing. Alternatively, it could be that the N2 is an improved compound and/or had a different tread pattern and/or some other technical difference. Your guess is as good as mine. But, given the choice, I would pick the more recent spec just in case there is a substantive improvement.

    --

    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

    Rennteam signature photo 2.jpg


    Re: Multiple punctures

    There is no thread difference in the N2. Only compound.

    I run N2 at the back and N1 at the front. I did not notice any difference from when I had all N1


    --
     

     997.2 C2S, PDK, -20mm


    Re: Multiple punctures

    The new tread is on the PS3, which is not available in Porsche sizes yet,with or without N-rating.


    --

    "Form follows function"


    Re: Multiple punctures

    easy_rider911:

    [...]
     If you are reading this Aviator, once again, my deepest apologies for having to cancel.

    Easy, my friend, please do not be concerned. We will arrange something next time. We were sorry that it was such a frustrating Saturday for you!

    Regarding the tyres, in general, I have found this site useful in the past:  www.tyrereviews.co.uk. This is where I first heard of the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetrics which I am currently running on my Boxster (which, btw, has had some significant power upgrades Smiley ). These tyres are not N-rated but I thought I would give them a try anyway. When I first put them on, they reminded me of fresh racing rubber. Fantastic grip on both the dry and the wet and definitely a big improvement on the N3 Pirelli p-zero Rosso.

    I got the tires online from a German company, delti.com. Their site for the UK is, I believe, http://www.mytyres.co.uk/.

     
    --
    Costas


    Re: Multiple punctures

     Easy, have you considered investigating the Labor party?


    --

     


    Re: Multiple punctures

    You think Gordon Brown spread some nails in my garage?

    Anyway, it's been quite hard to get hold of a set of 4 N2 spec PS2 tyres. They were introduced recently and are apparently much in demand. Luckily, a set of 2 for the front axle has now arrived today at the garage and a set of 2 for the rear axle is being delivered tomorrow. Should be all set for fitment on Saturday


    --

     
    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

    Rennteam signature photo 2.jpg


    Re: Multiple punctures

    Sorry to hear about your "mishap". This really sucks.

    Regarding the N2 tires: according to the current tire approval list, there is no Michelin Pilot Sport 2 N2 approved for the 997 Carrera S (pre-facelift). Just the N1.

    The list I have is from early 2010, so maybe there is a new list in the Porsche system.

    Have you checked with your local Porsche dealer ?

    Not that it really matters but you could stick to the N1 tires. Porsche actually recommends sticking to this setup for pre-facelift cars.


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Multiple punctures

    Thanks RC. My tyre supplier informed me that the N1 spec tyre is now discontinued for the front axle (235/35 size) and is expected to become discontinued for the rear axle (295/30 size) shortly. So, N2 is the only way forward AFAIK (if sticking with Michelin).

    AFAIK, Pirelli has already reached N4 Smiley

    --

    RT Moderator
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

    Rennteam signature photo 2.jpg


    Re: Multiple punctures

    The Pirelli N4 is not approved for pre-facelift models, neither is the N2 Michelin PS2. Just for the book. If you're going with factory recommendations, stick to them. Otherwise you could use any tire type because it really doesn't matter then. Some tires are for the 4WD models only, some are only for facelift models. 

    Just saying... 


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Multiple punctures

    If I understand correclty, the PS2 N2 has not been approved for any model except of the 2010 Turbo. From my understanding the homologation will come into effect with the next document, the Turbo being excepted from that development schedule.

    I sourced that information from the current online document (de/us)


    Re: Multiple punctures

    Thanks for the info Ferdie and RC. I appreciate it

    That document dates back to January 2010. I assume it is still up to date.

    My tyre supplier (who may be wrong) says the PS2 N1 is now discontinued for the front axle size (235/35).

    Even if the PS2 N2 isn't homologated yet, if I sell my car, I expect that the UK OPC will only check if there are N-spec tyres fitted. AFAIK the UK OPC won't care which N-spec tyres are fitted. I would not expect them to focus on it in that degree of detail.

    I could be wrong - but my assumption is that it is just a question of time before the PS2 N2 gets officially approved for the 1st gen 997 cars.


    --

     
    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

    Rennteam signature photo 2.jpg


    Re: Multiple punctures

    My OPC just confirmed what my tyre supplier has been saying. PS2 N1s are now discontinued. Even the OPC is now fitting PS2 N2s on 1st gen 997 cars. So I can only assume the document on the Porsche website is now out of date? 

    BTW the OPC told me that it is the tyre manufacturer (not PAG) that decides to issue a revised N-spec version of a particular tyre/tyre size. So PAG is always playing catch up.


    --

     
    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

    Rennteam signature photo 2.jpg


    Re: Multiple punctures

    easy_rider911:
    BTW the OPC told me that it is the tyre manufacturer (not PAG) that decides to issue a revised N-spec version of a particular tyre/tyre size. So PAG is always playing catch up.

     

    This is a lie. Smiley

    Tire manufacturers can't issue a revised N-spec tire without approval from Porsche.

    This is the whole purpose behind the N-spec...Porsche needs to "control" the tire mixture/structure and the N-spec always guarantees that it stays the same.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Multiple punctures

    RC:
    easy_rider911:
    BTW the OPC told me that it is the tyre manufacturer (not PAG) that decides to issue a revised N-spec version of a particular tyre/tyre size. So PAG is always playing catch up.

     

    This is a lie. Smiley

    Tire manufacturers can't issue a revised N-spec tire without approval from Porsche.

    This is the whole purpose behind the N-spec...Porsche needs to "control" the tire mixture/structure and the N-spec always guarantees that it stays the same.

     


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW

    I agree with RC.

    For the "N-spec" to mean anything at all, it has to represent a tyre tested and approved by Porsche prior to it being put on the market.

    If a tyre manufacturer feels it does not want to supply the original N-spec tyre for any reason and wants customers to fit an alternative, then it could either recommend its standard version in that size or some other special version designated with some other suffix, but not unilaterally issue a higher N-spec number without Porsche's prior knowledge.
    Otherwise the significance of the whole N-spec system would be undermined to the point of being meaningless. 

    What I suspect the OPC really meant to say was that Porsche is playing catch-up in terms of keeping its published literature up-to-date.

     


    --

    fritz


    Re: Multiple punctures

    That's right fritz

    Just to clarify - since I think there has been a misunderstanding here - what the OPC was trying to describe is that, basically, the tyre manufacturer decides if it would like to issue a revised N-spec version of a particular tyre. PAG then has to test and grant its approval to any revised N-spec tyre. After approval from PAG, the tyre manufacturer then produces and distributes the tyre.

    By 'catch up' the OPC meant that there is a time lag for the information that is published by PAG in leaflets or on its website to be updated - not that PAG is retrospectively approving new tyres launched in the market by tyre manufacturers.

    The OPC said that the answer it gave me was current practice.

    --

    RT Moderator - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

    Rennteam signature photo 2.jpg


    Re: Multiple punctures

    fritz:

    What I suspect the OPC really meant to say was that Porsche is playing catch-up in terms of keeping its published literature up-to-date.

    This would make sense. Official Porsche dealers usually have access to the latest data directly from Porsche. I just hope this is the case in this case.  Smiley


    --

    RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 997 Turbo, BMW X5 M, BMW M3 Cab DKG, Mini Cooper S JCW


    Re: Multiple punctures

    My car has new shoes   

    Early this morning, the RAC came to my home, pumped up my car's punctured rear right tyre and then I drove to the garage to have a new set of 4 tyres fitted to my car.

    (The journey to the garage carried some risk: the RAC guy pumped up the tyre to 3.6 bar - about 50 psi - and over the 2.5 mile trip, the air just kept leaking out. Waiting a couple of minutes at each traffic light made me more nervous with each light I waited at. Eventually, I made it with 1.1 bar left in the tyre!)

    Anyhow, the guys at the garage did a great job  I also cleaned the inside of each alloy wheel with soapy water before each wheel was fitted back on the car.

    These are the tyres I got:

    Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 (N2)

    Front: 235/35 ZR 19 (87Y)
    Rear: 295/30 ZR 19 (100Y) Extra Load

    Here are the labels for the front and back tyres:

    RTT1.jpg


    All in, I paid GBP1083 for fitting 4 new tyres, wheel balancing, new valves, inflation with nitrogen gas and VAT. I got a great discount of GBP497  I know the guys that run the place so they looked after me very well. I don't think any UK OPC would offer such a great price.

    These tyres feel simply amazing  The nitrogen is a revelation - the car feels so good, so stable. The ride comfort is improved too  I wonder whether the differing densities of nitrogen and compressed air makes a difference? Smiley

    Something interesting I have noticed already - with nitrogen, the TPM system adjusts to changes in inflation/deflation of the tyres a little more slowly.

    But I wanted to give nitrogen a try. Apparently, it keeps its pressure much longer than regular, compressed air and supposedly provides better fuel consumption as a result while increasing tyre life.

    I need to drive at moderate speed for the next 100-150 miles just to 'break in' the tyres Smiley

    BTW I did not see any difference in tread pattern between the N2 and N1 tyres.

    It's too early to post any detailed comments (about wet/dry grip, handling etc) but if I have any other observations, I will post them here 

    The dates when these new tyres were made are as follows:

    Front Left (2510: 25th week of 2010) Front Right (2510: 25th week of 2010) (i.e. mid June 2010)
    Rear Left (2310: 23rd week of 2010) Rear Right (2310: 23rd week of 2010) (i.e. early June 2010)

    Tyre Treadwear: (I checked the tyres when new)

    Front Left
    : 6mm (outer), 6mm (centre), 6mm (inner) - Front Right: 5mm (inner), 6mm (centre), 6mm (outer)
    Rear Left
    : 6mm (outer), 6mm (centre), 6mm (inner) - Rear Right: 6mm (inner), 6mm (centre), 5mm (outer)

    Just for reference, the dates when my previous (factory supplied) tyres were made were as follows:

    Front Left (3106: 31st week of 2006) Front Right (3106: 31st week of 2006) (i.e. early August 2006)
    Rear Left (3406: 34th week of 2006) Rear Right (0706: 7th week of 2006) (i.e. late August & mid February 2006)

    I used my old tyres for 18841 miles in total (including 6 days on track: 3 days at Magny-Cours, 2 days at the Nordschleife and 1 day at Hockenheim). I had been planning to change these tyres in around October 2010 so I was expecting to get about 20000 miles out of them. Still, I don't think I did too badly overall Smiley

    --

    RT Moderator
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

    Rennteam signature photo 2.jpg


    Re: Multiple punctures

    Looks great Easy! :-)

    Wow, your last set was old (2006? !)  But these are really fresh! Excellent.

    There are some advantages to using Nitrogen, most important of which, I would say, are chemical inertness with the rubber, and lack of humidity:

    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2694/is-it-better-to-fill-your-tires-with-nitrogen-instead-of-air

     


    --
    Costas

    Re: Multiple punctures

    Thanks Costas  My last set of tyres was the original set fitted to the car at the factory in Stuttgart. That set was made by Michelin in early/mid 2006 but my car was assembled around late Sept 2006 and then I collected it from the factory in Zuffenhausen on 10 November 2006. So I hope that explains the apparent agedness  

    But, truthfully, having nice soft rubber is really great - the car's grip feels so different (1 month old tyres vs 4 years old tyres) 

    --

    RT Moderator
    - 997.1 Carrera S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen collection

    Rennteam signature photo 2.jpg


    Re: Multiple punctures

    Yes, it just makes you want to go on a scenic route..


    --
    Costas

    Re: Multiple punctures

    Just had 4 Dunlop Sport Max RFT put on my X5,, with valves and VAT the fronts, size 275 were £270 each and the rears, size 315 were £370 each..Had the tracking done at the same time for its 3yr birthday and that was £140 + VAT, so in all it was nearly £1500 of pay out...The fun of ownership..Had some funny nails too in my tyre's, the Mrs reckons it the jealous brigade,, AGAIN..Also, the fronts are only giving me around 6000 miles, is that about right ....


    --

    throt

    "I didn't do it"


     
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