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    Re: MotoGP

    @xander71

    whst does your ducati insider think of the rumor stoner rejoining motogp/ Ducati?


    Re: MotoGP

    Stoner here in bologna is considered a real super star, everybody remebers how he was driving the almost impossible to drive ducati, always sideways and drifting, such a spectacular style.

    just remeber that rossi was almost 2 sec slower on the same bike!!!!

    there is a lot of talk but really my friend thinks that is almost impossible, at least nothing they are talking about now, i would love to see stoner again in ducati, think stoner and iannone, wooowww


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    993 c2


    Re: MotoGP

    IMO the penalty on Rossi was not strict enough - 3 points leading to a grid demotion for the deciding race - but Rossi kept the points for his 3rd place finish.

    What Rossi did was inexcusable - you don't kick/tap your opposition at high speed in the race just because he is annoying you during a fierce battle on track.


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    997.1 C2S GT Silver/Cocoa, -20mm/LSD, PSE, short shifter, SportDesign rims, Zuffenhausen pickup, BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster Sterling Grey/Red


    Re: MotoGP

    Last roumors,mmaybe lorenzo can be with ducati soon.


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    993 c2


    Re: MotoGP

    SmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmileySmiley


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     



    Re: MotoGP

    Don't think it will succeed, cause if it does it will mean the darkest hour of motorcycling organisation history, when a rider kicks another rider off the track and casues him to wipe, only to continue to finish race and claim its points with no black flag (while the other one 0 points and luckily no injuries) and suffers no penalty at all in said championship. Should Rossi win it, it would be a fraud and an embarrasment to the competition. This ain't the FIFA and Blatter I hope.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: MotoGP

    He blocked the line and pushed him wide...YES

    But VR didn't kick him!!


    Re: MotoGP

    Lord_Driftalot:

    He blocked the line and pushed him wide...YES

    But VR didn't kick him!!

     Even if that were true, his intentions and the result was still the same, so changes nothing.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: MotoGP

    As I said before - not sure about the kick, but the offence is clear.  Despite the provacation, VR pushed MM wide and therefore caused the crash and, in doing so, broke the rules...end of!!

    The appeals are desperate measures to reverse, or delay, the consequences.and therefore win the Championship.  If this happens it will be a very shallow end to what has been a great year...surprise


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    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."

     


    Re: MotoGP

    no excuses.....Rossi is on the wrong side here NO doubt!


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    993 c2


    Re: MotoGP

    Agreed, if we were to turn a blind eye to what Rossi did last weekend and accept it as OK just because we would like him to win no matter what, then how could we criticise or fault Marquez or his fans for doing the same thing to Rossi at Valencia and causing him not to finish the race? we could not, its would be the same thing and should be OK as well then. And what kind of sport would we be left with then if that is OK now?

    Three driver points penalty is ridiculous and an embarrasment because of the signal it sends about the sport, hopefully some justice will be served on the last race and Rossi will loose the championship, cause if he wins because of not getting a blag flag or proper punishment for such an act, it will tarnish the competition and the title which would have been won in the worst way, by causing another rider to have an accident on purpose to get him out of his way.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: MotoGP

    This is what excusing acts such as what Rossi did does... 

     

    http://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/moto-gp-racer-involved-in-controversial-crash-assaulted-1739759100

    Moto GP racer Marc Márquez was reportedly assaulted by Italian reporters in his garage, who were allegedly mocking him for a controversial crash during the Moto GP race earlier this week.

    According to the report from marca.com, citing police sources, Márquez returned from a day of dirt bike riding with his brother and father when they were approached in a garage by two Italian reporters.

    The reporters allegedly approached the racer in a mocking manner, attempting to interview him sarcastically. When Marc refused to comment, the report claims the reporters broke open bottles of cava (Spanish wine) in a way mimicking the podium celebrations of a race, and also presented a mocked up trophy in the form of an erect penis and balls.

    It is unclear exactly what was said, but Márquez made headlines earlier this week when he was involved in a controversial crash with fellow rider Valentino Rossi during a Moto GP race, following a claim by Rossi that Márquez was “teaming up” with another driver, Jorge Lorenzo.

    As Marc and his father approached the journalists, directing them to vacate the property, the racer was allegedly attacked by the journalists grabbing and shaking him by the arm and scratching his neck.

    The attackers were identified as Stefano Corti, Alessando Onnis and a cameraman, journalists for a controversial television program “Le lene,” or “The Hyenas.”

    It’s unclear what charges they face, but we’ll keep you updated as we have more information.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: MotoGP

    @CoS

    Just because these italian "journalists" are morons VR is not to blame for the actions of others, therefore - sorry to say - but your post is ridiculous!mail

    His maneuver wasn't "nice", no discussion about that, but still MM was interferring in the championship for whatever reason just to disturb VR and as many others (also some GP riders) said, Marc "was begging for it"...

    He had nothing to lose in that close fights but Vale did!

    Many people are still wondering why Marc wasn't (at least trying to) following DP and JL, although he had the pace in all seassions before

    If he'd have crashed his chances to become champion in that season would have been zero...

    If you remember the crash between DP and MM last year when MM drove into Dani and took of his traction control sensor from the rear axl nobody blamed him although DP crashed out fo the race and was hurt (on top of this)!?!


    Re: MotoGP

    If he wouldn't of talked trash the day before the race, if he wouldn't of deliberately thrown another rider of the track causing him to crash, and if he wouldn't of lied afterwards about it and not manned up to ity and apologided about what he did, that incident would not had happened... but when acts in the sport like that are excused away with "he had it coming" etc then this incidents like that are OK too...

     

    BTW here is what Rossi did to his "teammate" towards the end of the season when Lorenzo was fighting for the title, and Rossi had no chances for the tittle anymore and had nothing to loose... look familiar? except that Lorezon didn't react to push Rossi off the track, that shame goes only to one rider in history of MotoGP, Rossi, and those who claim that Marquez should of moved aside from Rossi should look up "double standard" on google.

    https://www.facebook.com/sergio.vicotorres/videos/10153768975677853/?fref=nf


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: MotoGP

    Carlos from Spain:

    If he wouldn't of talked trash the day before the race, if he wouldn't of deliberately thrown another rider of the track causing him to crash, and if he wouldn't of lied afterwards about it and not manned up to ity and apologided about what he did, that incident would not had happened... but when acts in the sport like that are excused away with "he had it coming" etc then this incidents like that are OK too...

     

    BTW here is what Rossi did to his "teammate" towards the end of the season when Lorenzo was fighting for the title, and Rossi had no chances for the tittle anymore and had nothing to loose... look familiar? except that Lorezon didn't react to push Rossi off the track, that shame goes only to one rider in history of MotoGP, Rossi, and those who claim that Marquez should of moved aside from Rossi should look up "double standard" on google.

    https://www.facebook.com/sergio.vicotorres/videos/10153768975677853/?fref=nf


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     

     

    All I see is that while they did touched inside the tunnel, then side by side racing for a few corners, Rossi didn't not lean into Lorenzo when Rossi was on the outside, Lorenzo had no problem leaning INTO Rossi when Rossi is on the inside. 

    This is completely different than the head butt Marquez did to Rossi's knee.

    I know Marquez is your countryman and you are biased to like him like you do with Alonso, but please see things from the outside from time to time.

     

     

     

     


    Re: MotoGP

    Don't get me worng Nick, Marquez may be spanish but never been a fan or Marquez, I will recognise his raw talent and bright future but thats it, never cheered for him to win anything, of the spanish riders I like Pedrosa. But in this case it doesn't matter who the other rider is or wether I like him or not, its not about the other rider, its all about what Rossi did. If it were the other way around and Marquez made Rossi crash on purpose, I would of said the same thing. Would of been even more mad since I was cheering for Rossi to win this year up until the incident. If anything those that should look from the outside are those that are trying to excuse such behavour because he is Rossi or becuase the other is Marquez. 

    Headbutt to the knee? heart don't think you are serious, you cannot headbutt anything in that position on a bike. Check the video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVXtJJUbpaA ), you can see his knee pushing towards Marquez helmet as he kicks him when they collide and not the other way around. Mind you that from that view you cannot see the lines of the riders, but while Marquez initially is forced to lift the bike when Rossi slowes down and goes wide to contact him, the second time the contact is unavoidable since Marquez has to negotiate the turn to avoid missing the turn and going off track, but Rossi looks back one more time at were Marquez is and continues to go wide hence Marquez and Rossi meet. It may seem that Marquez is turning into Rossi from the outside angle but in reality is that when they both should turn and exit the corner, Rossi continues going wide as he looks at Marquez and slows more and so when Marquez turns he meets Rossi and falls. Only after the contact does Rossi start to cut the corner and negotiates the exit.

    Re Lorenzo leaning on Rossi, don't know if you have riden bikes but the outside rider never leans on the inside rider, thats not a thing, that only happens if he cannot correct the line to avoid it, since its a know common cause of wipe, because you are at a very delicate position when on the outisde, the contact will push you outside while at maximum tilt and min traction, if you are pushed upward you run wide if downwards you fall, your handle bar is exposed to the inside rider, any touch to the handle barin a turn is an easy wipe, etc. This is not F1 or 4-wheel vehicle racing. If two side by riders touch its ALWAYS the cause of the inside rider, normaly unintentionally because he came in to hot and went wide, or because he shot into the inside when the other rider did not expect him to or there was no space for him in the apex, or whatever.

    But if you don't see anything on the video of Rossi vs Lorenzo checkout second 32.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: MotoGP

    Yes I see second 32, Lorenzo was on the outside, but too close to Rossi, so when he leans in for the turn he touched Rossi. 

    As for your link on the Rossi/Marquez incident, it's a even clearer picture of Marquez head butting Rossi' knee. First Marquez drive close enough to Rossi to smell his fart, then Marquez accelerate into Rossi and head butt Rossi' knee. And Rossi' reaction is just nature, extend the knee to push him off. You cannot see Marquez's head hit Rossi' knee first before Rossi's knee push him off?!?!?!

    I do see Rossi looking that way, 3 times, but he is pretty much checking to see where Marquez, they are running different lines through that corner, Rossi takes the inside-out line while Marquez takes the outside-in line, Rossi knows that and needs to check where will they collide, he gets to the spot on the track first so he has the right of way, Marquez doesn't like that and head butts him. Rossi retaliate. Simply as that.

    I do not ride motorcycles, nor do I follow MotoGP, I have no horse in the race at all. Just an outsider 'reading a book for the 1st time'. 

     


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    Re: MotoGP

    @CoS

    As I posted already before 2010 JL was already the dominant racer in that season (also due to VRs and sadly DPs injuries), VR wasinterferring for nothing, as JL was already the new champ

    ->  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Grand_Prix_motorcycle_racing_season

    DP (the main competitor to JL) wasn't even taking part in that race and on top of this JL was WC for sure (see table bellow) as there was no one even close to him to catch up!!

    You totally neglect the fact that VR wasn't interferring in the world championship whilst MM is in 2015mail

     

    Pos Rider Bike QAT
    Qatar
    ESP
    Spain
    FRA
    France
    ITA
    Italy
    GBR
    United Kingdom
    NED
    Netherlands
    CAT
    Catalonia
    GER
    Germany
    USA
    United States
    CZE
    Czech Republic
    IND
    United States
    RSM
    San Marino
    ARA
    Aragon
    JPN
    Japan
    MAL
    Malaysia
    AUS
    Australia
    POR
    Portugal
    VAL
    Valencian Community
    Pts
    1 Spain Jorge Lorenzo Yamaha 2 1 1 2 1 1 1 2 1 1 3 2 4 4 3 2 1 1 383
    2 Spain Dani Pedrosa Honda 7 2 5 1 8 2 2 1 Ret 2 1 1 2 DNS   DNS 8 7 245
    3 Italy Valentino Rossi Yamaha 1 3 2 DNS       4 3 5 4 3 6 3 1 3 2 3 233

    Re: MotoGP

    Whoopsy:

    I do see Rossi looking that way, 3 times, but he is pretty much checking to see where Marquez, they are running different lines through that corner, Rossi takes the inside-out line while Marquez takes the outside-in line, Rossi knows that and needs to check where will they collide, he gets to the spot on the track first so he has the right of way, Marquez doesn't like that and head butts him. Rossi retaliate. Simply as that.

    Nick, from what you are wirtting I think were you are reading it wrong is in that Rossi is not negotiating the corner normally, he is looking back to Marquez and purposedly slowing down and opening his line wide to collide with Marquez, Rossi is going out of his way to do this and forgets completely to go through the normal racing line of the curve.

    The fact that makes even more obvious is that Marquez ran a little wide going in (that is why Rossi takes the insile line so easily) and so Rossi has to lift and open wide a lot in order to meet Marquez on the corner. This is why he was actually penalised, because everybody can see that this can only be done on purpose, there is no doubt about this, otherwise it would just have been a normal race incident like many times before and nobody would of given it a second thought.

    Also check out this camera angle, who crosses who's line?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lOoA2q5zcg

    you can see Rossi purposedly continue going straight in the corner while glancing at Marquez to be able to meet him, look at his body posture in the bike, maybe you need to have been in that situation riding bikes to interpret it but it says it all, and then once he hits marquez and throws him down, only then Rossi changes to the correct body posture  for taking the corner and tilts the bike to start turning and negotiate the turn. Up until then he had no interest in the corner, he was going after Marquez.

    Marquez was taking the corner correctly and was running out of track due to Rossi causing him to lift up and not being able to negotiate the corner, until they finally collided, with the outside rider always getting the short end of the stick in that situation which is what Rossi played on.

    Just look at the tire marks on that corner and the direction they are going, that shows you the racing line and look at how perpendicular and passed them they are going compared to them because of what Rossi was doing.

    The only tire marks that are parallel to them are those that are going off the track from riders going wide and out  of the track in the turn. That is what Marquez was trying to avoid, and at that slow speed (Rossi had purposedly slowd down both riders in the turn)  and late in the corner, Marquez expected Rossi to be able to cut the corner and move on, but he did not expect however that Rossi was doing this on purpose so when he tryied to match Rossis expected trayectory out of the corner, he instead met Rossi and fell.

     

    I really hope to describe it well but don't think I can explain it any better than that NickSmiley it's hard to judge some else's perspective if you are not into bikes since I may take some things for granted like body posture, lines, etc...


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: MotoGP

    As I said Rossi is wrong , no excuses for the move.

    Marquez is angry with rossi due to argentina and assen, 

    Marquez is slowing rossi for give him back for the things in argentina and assen.

    rossi stupid to fall in the net of marquez

    it's a gift to rossi to not get a black flag and try to race to keep at least 1 point ahead of Lorenzo

    this is what I see I0m Italian, but first I'm objective and a fan of motorsports so I love fair play I don't care about nationality.

    So sorry that so many stupid journalists are writing so much shit about this thing!!!! keep the sport to the rooles and let them fight in the track

     


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    993 c2

     


    Re: MotoGP

    Carlos from Spain:
    Whoopsy:

    I do see Rossi looking that way, 3 times, but he is pretty much checking to see where Marquez, they are running different lines through that corner, Rossi takes the inside-out line while Marquez takes the outside-in line, Rossi knows that and needs to check where will they collide, he gets to the spot on the track first so he has the right of way, Marquez doesn't like that and head butts him. Rossi retaliate. Simply as that.

    Nick, from what you are wirtting I think were you are reading it wrong is in that Rossi is not negotiating the corner normally, he is looking back to Marquez and purposedly slowing down and opening his line wide to collide with Marquez, Rossi is going out of his way to do this and forgets completely to go through the normal racing line of the curve.

    The fact that makes even more obvious is that Marquez ran a little wide going in (that is why Rossi takes the insile line so easily) and so Rossi has to lift and open wide a lot in order to meet Marquez on the corner. This is why he was actually penalised, because everybody can see that this can only be done on purpose, there is no doubt about this, otherwise it would just have been a normal race incident like many times before and nobody would of given it a second thought.

    Also check out this camera angle, who crosses who's line?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lOoA2q5zcg

    you can see Rossi purposedly continue going straight in the corner while glancing at Marquez to be able to meet him, look at his body posture in the bike, maybe you need to have been in that situation riding bikes to interpret it but it says it all, and then once he hits marquez and throws him down, only then Rossi changes to the correct body posture  for taking the corner and tilts the bike to start turning and negotiate the turn. Up until then he had no interest in the corner, he was going after Marquez.

    Marquez was taking the corner correctly and was running out of track due to Rossi causing him to lift up and not being able to negotiate the corner, until they finally collided, with the outside rider always getting the short end of the stick in that situation which is what Rossi played on.

    Just look at the tire marks on that corner and the direction they are going, that shows you the racing line and look at how perpendicular and passed them they are going compared to them because of what Rossi was doing.

    The only tire marks that are parallel to them are those that are going off the track from riders going wide and out  of the track in the turn. That is what Marquez was trying to avoid, and at that slow speed (Rossi had purposedly slowd down both riders in the turn)  and late in the corner, Marquez expected Rossi to be able to cut the corner and move on, but he did not expect however that Rossi was doing this on purpose so when he tryied to match Rossis expected trayectory out of the corner, he instead met Rossi and fell.

     

    I really hope to describe it well but don't think I can explain it any better than that NickSmiley it's hard to judge some else's perspective if you are not into bikes since I may take some things for granted like body posture, lines, etc...

     

    From your video angle it does look different than the other one. As I said, I don't ride, but I do know on a track the bike lines are different than car lines in corners, so I did not suspect any intent before.

    But one last question up in the air, both riders are very experienced, they know what their bikes' limit is, Marquez has to know he will be running out of real estate on the track very soon with Rossi's trajectory through the corner, why didn't he yield to avoid a collision? Did he seriously think he could get out of that jam without incident? I know all racers are wired to be unyielding on a track, but even car racers will concede a piece of the track if they can see they got nowhere to go, lose that battle but keep the war going later in the session. The only reasonable explanation is that Marquez doesn't care, he was hoping to get both riders out with a collision, kind of like how Alain Prost cash out Senna purposely in Japan. 

     


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    Re: MotoGP

    xander71:

    ...Marquez is slowing rossi for give him back for the things in argentina and assen....

    Sorry, but that sounds like nonsense to me... Marquez and Rossi were battling. Maybe not for championship, but they were fighting for points, fighting for position. Should Marquez have left Rossi alone because Rossi had a chance for the championship still?!? Not if you ask me. Rossi is not the only one on the track and people should let him fight his championship battle with Lorenzo... No, a champion can only be a champion if he wins from ALL the people on the track. And since he couldn't win from Marquez, he wasn't even ready to fight Lorenzo IMO.


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    Porsche, seperates LeMans from LeBoys

    Re: MotoGP

    I say: rossi did almost irregular moves to marquez, and as always nothingh happens to rossi, so because of this reason marquez slowed him.

    as i always said before rossi always have help from the rules and if other pilot do the same the treatment is different.

    this is the meaning of my point of view. I dont like rossi because of this, i'm a ducati fan, and no one liked hime here in bologna when he was in ducati 

    1) he was so slower than stoner that it was embarassing

    2) he did it for money and was always complaining


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    993 c2


    Re: MotoGP

    Whoopsy:

    But one last question up in the air, both riders are very experienced, they know what their bikes' limit is, Marquez has to know he will be running out of real estate on the track very soon with Rossi's trajectory through the corner, why didn't he yield to avoid a collision? Did he seriously think he could get out of that jam without incident? I know all racers are wired to be unyielding on a track, but even car racers will concede a piece of the track if they can see they got nowhere to go, lose that battle but keep the war going later in the session. The only reasonable explanation is that Marquez doesn't care, he was hoping to get both riders out with a collision, kind of like how Alain Prost cash out Senna purposely in Japan. 

    I can see how that question could arise from a 4-wheel point of view. The answer is that two wheel dinamics on the turn is different, in a car you could brake harder and at the same time still turn, hence maybe safely avoiding Rossi. But in a bike if Marquez with that turn angle should have braked hard enough to avoid Rossi we would of likely lost traction and likely fall (tank slapper if the rear slips, nose dive if the front losses it), the only safe way to slow down in that situation is to lift the bike up back verticallty and then brake, but that would mean to go staright and go off the track completely.

    The reason Marquez was turning into the corner is that he expected Rossi to do the same, afterall they were reaching the limit of the tack, and so they would of both have exited the corner safely in paralell, with Rossi coming out in front at the exit of the corner. That happens all the time when both riders go into a turn side by side and go wide, after they shaved sufficient speed off they turn back into the corner and open throttle side by side, with the inside rider gaining the advantage position after the exit. There is not much risk there, even minor bumps between riders are not a danger if both riders and moving parallel in the same direction exiting the corner (in this case they weren't moving exactly in parallel, casue Rossi was still going wide on purpose to lean on Marquez).

    The key is that Rossi did not act normally and as expected, he actively looked for the contact, and that is why Marquez was caught by surprise (he had to lift the bike once already he didn't expect a second cause there was no need), he did not expect such a contact there. Watch how different the body postures of both riders on the bike were, Marquez had the body posture of when you are exiting the corner yet Rossi had the body posture you have when you are entering the corner still, only after Marquez goes down does Rossi quickly switch to "exit corner porture" and takes off. There wasn't even supposed to be any at all, Marquez had run a bit wide and the door was wide open for Rossi to go through the corner without being near Marquez at all and would of exited at lest a couple of bike legths clear of Marquez in front.

    Marquez could of been more conservative, but then that would of meant loosing too much time with respect to Rossi and heated MotoGP battles are like that, but nothing would of happened if Rossi would of riden normal line and would not of not seeked a contact.

     

     

    I just hope that everybody behaves in Valencia next week, including the fans which will be mostly spanish, so specially the fans I hope act with respect towards all riders involved, and that whatever happens in the end, it will be the result of ethical and sportmanship riding in the race. This has escalated enough already and such a gentleman sport has been stained anough with this. Its sad to see.

    If there is any justice or karma, Rossi will loose the championship because of what he did since because of who he is and his influence, was not punished by the organisation by the normal standard like any other rider would have been, which would of been an inmediate black flag at minimum.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

     


    Re: MotoGP

    Honda has offered the telemetry of Marquez bike to Dorna/FIM.

    It shows that the front brake lever recieved an impact that caused the front tire to freeze, loose traction and cause the fall. They say that it was a consecuence of Rossi's kick that hit the lever.

    This makes sense(as I actually said in a post above, in that position side by side mid turn, the handlebar of the exterior rider is exposed to the inside rider and any touch to the handle bar is an easy wipe), though I don't think Rossi was aiming at the lever, don't think that would be easy to do. I think he kicked the arear of the handle bar to unsettle Marquez 'sbike and hope for the best, and was "lucky" that he hit the perfect spot.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: MotoGP

    @Cos

    Finally a fellow country man of you (and MM & JL) tells the truth, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmH4D_I82D0


    Re: MotoGP

    Lord_Driftalot:

    @Cos

    Finally a fellow country man of you (and MM & JL) tells the truth, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmH4D_I82D0

    Not really, he and his family are closely related to Rossi and to say they are bised is an understatement though he may try to give the impression that he is equidistant to those that don't know better to try to get some credibility.


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    ⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS


    Re: MotoGP

    http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2015/VAL/MotoGP/Q2/QualifyingResults.pdf?v1_bff1f06f


    --

    "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."


    Re: MotoGP

    doesn't look too well for Rossi.


    --

    Lotus 3-Eleven on order


     
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